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Spinoffs for other characters?

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I...guess...?I thought we were mainly talking about spinoff games, but I can technically see what you're getting. And there's the middleground of leapster style formats. 

I guess the thing with Charmy in particular is that there isn't much to him compared to every other character motif-wise, at least in the sense that what little is there is scantly really a thing outside of Heroes.

What exactly are you talking about? 

I was talking about spin-off games. I was saying that all three of the Chaotix could work fine on their own as characters of their own potential series. I also clarified that it'd be best to keep them all together despite that. 

I used the example of Scholastic books to illustrate the narrative potential a series based on a child detective could have should it be made. I wasn't literally saying it should be a book.

And what's there is enough. He's a child and he's a detective. You can piggyback off of that rather easily. 

 

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

With Rouge, it feels like she does so little spying and stealing and for such vague reasons that I'm not sure what a game all about her could naturally build on.

She's a greedy thief, owner of a nightclub and a government spy. Doesn't it write itself lol

Lets just rip off Burn Notice and swap the main character out for Rouge.

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

What exactly are you talking about? 

I was talking about spin-off games. I was saying that all three of the Chaotix could work fine on their own as characters of their own potential series. I also clarified that it'd be best to keep them all together despite that. 

I used the example of Scholastic books to illustrate the narrative potential a series based on a child detective could have should it be made. I wasn't literally saying it should be a book.

And what's there is enough. He's a child and he's a detective. You can piggyback off of that rather easily. 

 

I assume you didn't see my few edits? Ah well, it wasn't much anyway.

When I hear Scholastic, I immediately just think of books we used to read in elementary and maybe early middle school, so my bad on taking it a little too literally.

I guess the distinction to what I saying is that, once again, that sounds more like a basic story aspect rather than a gameplay one. Like, what are some idea for how being a kid, a junior detective, a bee, etc. could inform the gameplay and what not?

7 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

She's a greedy thief, owner of a nightclub and a government spy. Doesn't it write itself lol

Lets just rip off Burn Notice and swap the main character out for Rouge.

I don't immediately know what Burn Notice is, but that is a decently template style for ideas.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I guess the distinction to what I saying is that, once again, that sounds more like a basic story aspect rather than a gameplay one. Like, what are some idea for how being a kid, a junior detective, a bee, etc. could inform the gameplay and what not?

Well yeah. I was only talking about potential story ideas within the post. That's all I intended to talk about. And what do mean "once again"? This is the first time either of us has brought up gameplay. I wasn't talking about gameplay. 

I was just throwing out ideas for characters I could see having a spin-off based on what we knew about them. I wasn't trying to be super thorough and examine the possibility from every possible angle. I'm not a game designer. I don't know the methods used to create detective games.

I'd imagine if it were made it'd either be done the way normal detective games are made.

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37 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The way I see it the spinoffs take the seed of an idea from the main series and expand upon it. Luigi wasn't a cowardly ghost hunter until Luigi's Mansion, but you can see how they put the idea together from bits and pieces in earlier games. He's clumsy and awkward, he's the clear #2 of the bros in terms of heroing, and he and Mario are close; this doesn't lead directly into ghost hunting, but it works as the basis for Luigi stepping up and saving the brother he cares about, and the clumsiness plays well with the slapsticky "horror". And then once the first game happens Luigi is established as the cowardly ghost hunter guy and they can draw on and expand on that in new ways.

With Rouge, it feels like she does so little spying and stealing and for such vague reasons that I'm not sure what a game all about her could naturally build on.

It's at least established established that Rouge just likes gemstones enough to take them from those she deems unworthy of them, but she also has a conscience that kicks in pretty randomly. I'll definitely concede that she is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest victim of uninspired, scattershot and poor character writing on Maekawa's part for sure, but it doesn't have to stay that way, right?

So let's bullshit something together. I think this enough to at least build a premise and aesthetic of a game around even if the mechanics aren't nailed down quite yet.  A game built around a morally ambiguous thief who's conscience is brought to light over time isn't exactly new ground, but give it a sort of Sonic themed flair inspired by the classic series's Casino and Metropolis themed stages and the wacky tone of the OVA and you might be onto something.

Embrace Rouge's inclinations toward jazz and tweak the artstyle a bit to make it sort of loose and playful, like the works of Sayo Yamomoto. Just a fun heist adventure with a sense of style ALA Lupin.

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The gameplay part is tricky just because I'm not sure how far you'd take a spinoff away from the genre the original series is based on. Most Mario spinoffs are still platformers and I'd like to keep most Sonic spinoffs within that same realm but Luigi's Mansion is actually a very lighthearted, family friendly version of a horror game with no platforming elements at all. 

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Well yeah. I was only talking about potential story ideas within the post. That's all I intended to talk about. And what do mean "once again"? 

Because of the focus on the story aspect.

7 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

I was just throwing out ideas for characters I could see having a spin-off based on what we knew about them. I wasn't trying to be super thorough and examine the possibility from every possible angle. I'm not a game designer. I don't know the methods used to create detective games.

I know. I was just havin a bit of trouble myself was all.

7 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

I'd imagine if it were made it'd either be done the way normal detective games are made.

Yeah, I just thought about Professor Layton or Detective Pikachu.

I haven't watch anything of either, but those could be easy to reference templates.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Because of the focus on the story aspect.

I don't understand. What does this response mean? When you said "once again that sounds more like a story aspect than a gameplay one" it implied you already tried to talk to me about the gameplay but you didn't before you said that so it didn't make any sense...

I don't know. The answer to your question is I don't know. 

I was just throwing out ideas. 

 

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I feel like it's difficult to sell the idea of a spin off centered on a secondary character mostly because of what Dio pointed out; characterization is so damn paper thin in the main series games, so it's not exactly selling me on the idea that I'd want to play as these characters.

And I notice when people are coming up for the idea for these spin offs, they're only coming at it from their perspective, because of course a fan of Charmy is going to love a spin off about him. 

But who would want to play a game about a character who is ultimately a minor character in the grand scheme if you aren't already a fan. You have to sell people on the idea that they would want to play as these characters and not just assume everyone else would like them because you do.

 

 

People already don't have a favorable opinion of the extended cast to begin with, I can't imagine that really changing if you were to give them a solo game unless you made them likable in the main games. But right now, we're still stuck with only Sonic & Tails as the main characters, so.....yea.

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5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I feel like it's difficult to sell the idea of a spin off centered on a secondary character mostly because of what Dio pointed out; characterization is so damn paper thin in the main series games, so it's not exactly selling me on the idea that I'd want to play as these characters.

And I notice when people are coming up for the idea for these spin offs, they're only coming at it from their perspective, because of course a fan of Charmy is going to love a spin off about him. 

But who would want to play a game about a character who is ultimately a minor character in the grand scheme if you aren't already a fan. You have to sell people on the idea that they would want to play as these characters and not just assume everyone else would like them because you do.

 

 

People already don't have a favorable opinion of the extended cast to begin with, I can't imagine that really changing if you were to give them a solo game unless you made them likable in the main games. But right now, we're still stuck with only Sonic & Tails as the main characters, so.....yea.

There's literally no point in having the board at all if every topic is whittled down by people moaning that everything is pointless because Sonic is trash. I generally don't have a problem with criticism but I honestly don't see the point in discussing shit at all if everyone come at it with a flat out nihilistic attitude. 

We're all just bullshitting here as is about games that'll never happen regardless. Might as well have fun with it.

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25 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I don't understand. What does this response mean? When you said "once again that sounds more like a story aspect than a gameplay one" it implied you already tried to talk to me about the gameplay but you didn't before you said that so it didn't make any sense...

I don't know. The answer to your question is I don't know. 

I was just throwing out ideas. 

 

Don't worry about it.

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

There's literally no point in having the board at all if every topic is whittled down by people moaning that everything is pointless because Sonic is trash. I generally don't have a problem with criticism but I honestly don't see the point in discussing shit at all if everyone come at it with a flat out nihilistic attitude. 

We're all just bullshitting here as is about games that'll never happen regardless. Might as well have fun with it.

Yeah, seriously. I'm not sure where this turned into a serious discussion about the plausibility of any of these ideas existing. I was just galavanting about it from a fantastical, "what-if" standpoint. Of course I was going to approach it from my perspective. Blabbing about your imagination is fun. 

Remember fun?

Also, I'm not the one who brought up focus on Charmy. In my original post, my section on the Chaotix was focused on them as a whole. I don't know why things were contrived to be about me as a Charmy fan out of nowhere. I don't even like talking about Charmy specifically.  It never ends well.

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12 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

People already don't have a favorable opinion of the extended cast to begin with, I can't imagine that really changing if you were to give them a solo game unless you made them likable in the main games. But right now, we're still stuck with only Sonic & Tails as the main characters, so.....yea.

What about Eggman?

He'd be a perfect candidate under that criteria. He's a significant enough face that everyone knows who he is, he ducks most of the "Sonic's friends" backlash right out of the gate and there is no end to the directions you could take a spin-off with the guy.

I can already see a Final Boss against Sonic being one of the greatest things ever. Make that little pin cushion cushion impossibly hard and leave the player to feel Eggys seething rage.

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33 minutes ago, Wraith said:

There's literally no point in having the board at all if every topic is whittled down by people moaning that everything is pointless because Sonic is trash. I generally don't have a problem with criticism but I honestly don't see the point in discussing shit at all if everyone come at it with a flat out nihilistic attitude. 

We're all just bullshitting here as is about games that'll never happen regardless. Might as well have fun with it.

I'm more speaking from the perspective as an outsider. I'm not against the ideas itself, but it's a legit question.

How would you sell these ideas to people if they aren't already fans?

22 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

What about Eggman?

He'd be a perfect candidate under that criteria. He's a significant enough face that everyone knows who he is, he ducks most of the "Sonic's friends" backlash right out of the gate and there is no end to the directions you could take a spin-off with the guy.

I can already see a Final Boss against Sonic being one of the greatest things ever. Make that little pin cushion cushion impossibly hard and leave the player to feel Eggys seething rage.

Eggman could definitely hold a game himself. I'd probably prefer him fighting another baddie so he can actually be competent for once. 

 

Probably make it an RTS.

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Charmy couldn't work on his own. He may be a child detective, but everything in the games infer that he alone would not be able to solve a mystery, his biggest uses have been to find some things and sort out admin Vector and Espio don't want to. 

I guess the former could work, but the age demographic would skew pretty low. 

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1 hour ago, VEDJ-F said:

Charmy couldn't work on his own. He may be a child detective, but everything in the games infer that he alone would not be able to solve a mystery, his biggest uses have been to find some things and sort out admin Vector and Espio don't want to. 

I guess the former could work, but the age demographic would skew pretty low. 

I guess if the conversation is gonna go this way regardless, I'll just reiterate that I think it can work. I'm not taking much into account when it comes to what the games have inferred about him as I look at all of these possibilities through the lens of learning more about them and developing them a bit. Not to mention, there's a lot of mental gymnastics and absurdity going on with the idea that I have in mind particularly. Things like a playground setting, him blowing bubbles from a fake pipe, finding stolen candy from bullies, and drawing posters advertising himself with crayon.

It's more of a comedic approach than anything. Not a literal detective story approach. Something like that I feel would be reserved for Vector. That's part of why the misfit personalities of the three of them kind of lend themselves to different kinds of detective stories in my eyes. The one that came to mind with Charmy was far less serious and demanded a lot less legitimacy from him.

I guess this is the pitfall of trying to argue what's going on in your head. It's hard getting the full scope of what you mean across with some words. I'd totally draw up a comic about it if I had enough free-time though. It sounds like it'd be a fun project.

 

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I mean, the both of you obviously prefer some members of the Chaotix over the others if your signatures are anything to go by, so I don't think ya'll gonna see eye to eye on this :V

 

I'd say just cut out the middle man and just have a game focused on all of them since the main appeal of the three are as a group rather than individuals.

 

Back to Rouge; I don't think she'll ever have a game without the rest of Team Dark, but I'd at least make her the center stage over Shadow for once.

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8 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

What about Eggman?

He'd be a perfect candidate under that criteria. He's a significant enough face that everyone knows who he is, he ducks most of the "Sonic's friends" backlash right out of the gate and there is no end to the directions you could take a spin-off with the guy.

I can already see a Final Boss against Sonic being one of the greatest things ever. Make that little pin cushion cushion impossibly hard and leave the player to feel Eggys seething rage.

Ah yes, how could we forget the Egg Emperor himself?

An Eggman game would be great!

7 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

Eggman could definitely hold a game himself. I'd probably prefer him fighting another baddie so he can actually be competent for once. 

 

Probably make it an RTS.

Either that or some hero wannabe who gets more and more determined throughout.

6 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Charmy couldn't work on his own. He may be a child detective, but everything in the games infer that he alone would not be able to solve a mystery, his biggest uses have been to find some things and sort out admin Vector and Espio don't want to. 

I guess the former could work, but the age demographic would skew pretty low. 

Charmy does paperwork? Well shoot. :lol: 

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9 minutes ago, Catallena said:

i'd love a 4x game of eggman x tails involving building robots and machines. 

Hm...there's potential to be derived from there.

Maybe even make Wave and a fourth character as extra competitors as well.

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3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'd say just cut out the middle man and just have a game focused on all of them since the main appeal of the three are as a group rather than individuals.

Uh, yeah. That's what I originally said too. A few times now actually. But for some reason that was completely ignored in favor of zeroing in on just Charmy, which I didn't want to do. 

Then, like a punchline to an anime, when I realize the conversation is going there anyway and I finally relent and decide to talk about him, someone says "Ya'll should stick to just having them as a group." 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Uh, yeah. That's what I originally said too. A few times now actually. But for some reason that was completely ignored in favor of zeroing in on just Charmy, which I didn't want to do. 

Then, like a punchline to an anime, when I realize the conversation is going there anyway and I finally relent and decide to talk about him, someone says "Ya'll should stick to just having them as a group." 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, sorry again bout that.

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People hate Sonic's friends too much to buy a game that's just about them.

Like why would you make another Shadow game if the last one was so horrible? Same with Tails and maybe to a lesser extent Knuckles. People will just assume the game will be bad, and frankly, considering the luck the Sonic series has, it will be mediocre at best.

Also, why would SEGA invest money in a spinoff for a friend of Sonic rather than Sonic himself? The latter is gonna sell more no matter what.

I would understand if they for example made a Knuckles spinoff to experiment with the series, like how the Kirby games have little minigames that eventually become their own game, but I just don't see it happening at all. There's a reason why it hasn't happened for almost 15 years now.

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7 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

 

Back to Rouge; I don't think she'll ever have a game without the rest of Team Dark, but I'd at least make her the center stage over Shadow for once.

That's because Sonic team never let her grow outside team dark , and their tendency to group the characters nearly every game .  if she was given a time to evolve , then people will realize that there is more to her than just being a sidekick , and I believe they will more interested in her . Not only Rouge  , but I think other characters could be in the same way , it's a matter of chance . I don't mean Rouge should get her own game in this time  , I mean it's gonna happen gradually , when her character build enough independence to handle her own game .

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

People hate Sonic's friends too much to buy a game that's just about them.

Like why would you make another Shadow game if the last one was so horrible? Same with Tails and maybe to a lesser extent Knuckles. People will just assume the game will be bad, and frankly, considering the luck the Sonic series has, it will be mediocre at best.

Also, why would SEGA invest money in a spinoff for a friend of Sonic rather than Sonic himself? The latter is gonna sell more no matter what.

I would understand if they for example made a Knuckles spinoff to experiment with the series, like how the Kirby games have little minigames that eventually become their own game, but I just don't see it happening at all. There's a reason why it hasn't happened for almost 15 years now.

Sonic and his friends will be redeemed with proper approach then this will happen gradually when the time is ready to get their own games , I know it's a wishful thinking , but we here just discussing the idea , although we know it's not gonna happen .

The reason some fans want another Shadow game , because of the desire of redeeming Shadow , although that I don't support in this time ,  when Sega don't get Sonic himself right  , but I understand why they are asking for it . If Sega and Sonic franchise were in an excellent condition , then him and Knuckles are the closest characters to get their games .

Edited by Gumbit

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