Spinoffs for other characters?

[Rowl]

2 hours ago, Ashwalking Bat said:

You know. This is something I have on occasion thought about myself. I literally wonder why Blaze never gets any off her own spinoff games.

The answer is easy: She is as fast as Sonic, her arch enemy is a re-colored Dr. Eggman, her super form is very similar to that of Sonic, she collects seven different colored gems and her sidekick likes to build stuff like machines and gadgets.

She is more or less just a cat version of Sonic. So... is you already have Sonic, why would you create a game of Blaze that would be almost identical to that of Sonic?

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, Bucket said:

I'd be down for Shadow to get another chance at his own spin-off, maybe tweaking some of the stuff that didn't work in his old game.

But my dream spin-off would be for the Avatar character. However Sega/Sonic Team wanted to do it, if they gave the Avatar character/concept it's own spin-off series, I'd be all over that. Even if they took the red wolf with the glasses and made him the 'default' version of the character, I'd be happy with that~

They might just do that if they see the room for it.

There's a rumor that Forces was initially a game focused on the Avatar concept, but then SEGA decided to add Sonic in as well and made it the anniversary game.

3 hours ago, Rowl said:

The answer is easy: She is as fast as Sonic, her arch enemy is a re-colored Dr. Eggman, her super form is very similar to that of Sonic, she collects seven different colored gems and her sidekick likes to build stuff like machines and gadgets.

She is more or less just a cat version of Sonic. So... is you already have Sonic, why would you create a game of Blaze that would be almost identical to that of Sonic?

Eh, if anything, I'd say that actually gives a perfect excuse for them to do so. I keeps a working formula alive, develops a breakout character and their world, and could potentially build another audience that either prefer what it brings over regular Sonic or indulge in their love for both. They could even expand some concepts that are not only already attached to Blaze, but didn't fully jive when they attempted with Sonic.

[Celestia]

Blaze could be the star of boost-style games on the side, if they ever definitively move on from that for "main" entries. That would even be coming full circle since that style (kind of) started with Rush.

[Rowl]

8 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Eh, if anything, I'd say that actually gives a perfect excuse for them to do so.

Not really... she kinda needs to have her own gameplay style to justified her own spinoff. Sure Wario Land, Yoshi's Island and DKC is all spinoffs of the Mario series, and yes, all of them are also 2D Jump'n Runs, but they still are very different from Mario in terms of gameplay, art style and tone.They even have their own character cast, that are different from Mario. King K. Rool and Captain Syrup are very different from Bowser. And Yoshi Island for example has it's own unique art style, music and gameplay with the egg mechanic.

A Blaze game kinda needs to have all of those things to justified her own spinoff. She needs to have a new main antagonist that is as unique as King K. Rool or Captain Syrup, she needs to have maybe a outstanding gameplay style or at least a gimmick like Yoshi has and the tone and feeling of her game needs also to be very different Sonic.

I personally do not see the point for a Blaze game, if everything from the main antagonist, to the art style, the gameplay, music direction, enemy design and characters is just like that of Sonic. Than why even bother to give her a spinoff.

[DabigRG]

Time to poke some holes, I guess.

5 hours ago, Rowl said:

King K. Rool are very different from Bowser. 

She needs to have a new main antagonist that is as unique as King K. Rool

 

A Blaze game kinda needs to have all of those things to justified her own spinoff. she needs to have maybe a outstanding gameplay style or at least a gimmick like Yoshi has and the tone and feeling of her game needs also to be very different Sonic.

I personally do not see the point for a Blaze game, if everything from the main antagonist, to the art style, the gameplay, music direction, enemy design and characters is just like that of Sonic.

 

Than why even bother to give her a spinoff.

Big fat reptile King.

Make a new villain.

 

Did you see my list? Have you played the Rush games or listened to the music?

 

The Trick system, the dance elements, the hover ability, and potentially more.

 

Dr. Nega's robots have a different design style to most of Eggman's, plus there can be new villains with their own unique henchmen. Marine is different from Tails. She doesn't really have a Knuckles or Shadow yet, so make and/or combine those.

 

To expand the series universe(s) and amass another audience.

[Sonictrainer]

6 hours ago, Rowl said:

Not really... she kinda needs to have her own gameplay style to justified her own spinoff.

She has pyrokinesis, which allows her to control fire. No other character has this and there are some fun ways she can use it.

Exploring a dark area? Use her flames to create some light.

Is a wildfire destroying a city in her kingdom? Absorb the flames to put it out.

What's that? The train has no fire to start? Man, if only we had some FIRE to burn the coal to get it working...

Tired of using fire? Well, we could introduce a mechanic to change her element into something else...maybe...I don't know, ICE

7 hours ago, Rowl said:

They even have their own character cast, that are different from Mario.

Norman the Viking doesn't look anything like Bark the Polar Bear.

7 hours ago, Rowl said:

She needs to have a new main antagonist that is as unique as King K. Rool or Captain Syrup

King K. Rool is a reptile that steals bananas and Captain Syrup is a pirate.

They're not really different from Captain Whiskers and his...unnamed pirate crew. (Guess they could be the Ghost Pirates, since all of the Bosses have "Ghost" in their names)

Speaking of Eggman Nega, he's been retconned to be Eggman's descendant and from Silver's future, so they would have to create someone new.

You could introduce another kingdom that's at war with Blaze's kingdom. Maybe their royalty could be dogs.

 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

12 hours ago, Rowl said:

I personally do not see the point for a Blaze game, if everything from the main antagonist, to the art style, the gameplay, music direction, enemy design and characters is just like that of Sonic. Than why even bother to give her a spinoff.

Honestly I feel your view point on this really limiting. Why does everything need to be drastically different from Sonic to earn itself existing??? So your opinion is if a game idea is fairly similar that means we should just play as Sonic instead... What? You heard it here folks, I guess multiple playable characters in Sonic games shouldn't exist either then... because they all tend to play similar to Sonic with only a added 1 or 2 powers on top, meaning they are all seemingly pointless I guess!?

News flash! A Blaze game would be a spinoff... not a totally different game series altogether. We would expect and want it to have similar themes/ideas to Sonic to some degree. However it has enough differences already to not be a pure clone of Sonic. Blaze has fire powers that can be greatly expended upon. They can make her the star of using boost gameplay even if they quit using the boost for the main Sonic games themselves... a element getting removed from Sonic which a lot of people seem to be in favor of happening already anyways. Blaze would have her own original world and side cast, including the fact they can give her brand new villains if needed... I don't know why anybody assumes Blaze's main villain HAS to be Dr.Nega of all things... Plus if you look at my other post you'd see another idea they could include is make the game a small-scale open-world game with more RPG elements... both ideas of which would give a very different feeling from normal Sonic games. All of this is not even mentioning yet the fact as a girl Blaze offers a different market appeal and works on people like me who tend to prefer cool female characters over guys often.

And while TECHNICALLY they could do most of these same ideas and any other idea ever with Sonic instead... but why should they when they have other characters who can fill those roles? One of the problems with Sonic is SEGA has treated him to much as a "jack of all trades" way farther then they should and it gave games focused around him as the star a lack of a consistent identity as a result.

[Rowl]

Well... yes. I mean if the Blaze game plays like Sonic, sounds like Sonic, looks like Sonic than... yes, it should be a Sonic game. Other spinoffs separate themselves in many points from their original series. Luigi's Mansion for example was a unique gameplay mechanic, a different level structure, different enemies (most of them) and a different sound design than the more familiar Mario games. Same goes with DKC, Wario Land and Yoshi's Island.

If Blaze will get her own game, than it should feel like a Blaze game. It must have its own identity. It needs to have just like Luigi's Mansion or Wario Land something that can Blaze call her own. It can't just be Sonic's gameplay, narrative, goal, enemy and boss design, but just with Blaze as the lead character. If that is the case, than Sega should just green light another Rush game with her as the co-star. 

 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

43 minutes ago, Rowl said:

Well... yes. I mean if the Blaze game plays like Sonic, sounds like Sonic, looks like Sonic than... yes, it should be a Sonic game. Other spinoffs separate themselves in many points from their original series. Luigi's Mansion for example was a unique gameplay mechanic, a different level structure, different enemies (most of them) and a different sound design than the more familiar Mario games. Same goes with DKC, Wario Land and Yoshi's Island.

If Blaze will get her own game, than it should feel like a Blaze game. It must have its own identity. It needs to have just like Luigi's Mansion or Wario Land something that can Blaze call her own. It can't just be Sonic's gameplay, narrative, goal, enemy and boss design, but just with Blaze as the lead character. If that is the case, than Sega should just green light another Rush game with her as the co-star.

I really don't agree with you here. And I feel like you are ignoring everybody's augments for what would even make her game different too and simply are pushing a false narrative that everything involved around Blaze is just a pure copy and can't be anything else when that easily wouldn't need to be the case as explained by multiple people here. It doesn't matter what other spinoff games do, especially Nintendo's methods are not the only answer in life.

If they made Blaze's game a open-world RPG-ish action type game then that already is more then different enough from Sonic.. However as I already explained that wouldn't even be absolutely necessary because they could simply remove the boost gameplay from the normal Sonic games and leave it on her games and that would then separate her games completely from Sonic too at that point. Plus if they give her the Sonic Rush/Jet Set Radio music along with a new villain and side cast... I really don't see why you'd need more then that. And as for the idea of a new rush style game... NO, they do NOT need to make Blaze just a co-star again if they did a new Rush style game... Sonic himself isn't needed for a game with her to work for goodness sake.

[Your Vest Friend]

I don't think Blaze has any more standing to get a spinoff than anyone else at this point. Regardless of the Rush era, her time as being more in the spotlight than other side characters is done. 

And before anyone says anything, I know that's not what this conversation is about right now. I'm just more challenging the notion that Blaze is in a better position to get a spinoff. 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

12 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

And before anyone says anything, I know that's not what this conversation is about right now. I'm just more challenging the notion that Blaze is in a better position to get a spinoff. 

Considering she has her own dimension that could offer many unique concepts... and the fact she co-stared in 2 games... Yeah I would argue she has a better chance the most. Or I should perhaps say I personally think she would be a far better choice then somebody such as Shadow... who basically just boils down to dark edgy Sonic who sometimes uses guns when SEGA is feeling extra edgy that day.

[Your Vest Friend]

4 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Considering she has her own dimension that could offer many unique concepts... and the fact she co-stared in 2 games... Yeah I would argue she has a better chance the most. Or I should perhaps say I personally I think she would be a far better choice then somebody such as Shadow... who basically just boils down to dark edgy Sonic who sometimes uses guns when SEGA is feeling extra edgy that day.

The second of those two games she co-starred in was 12 years ago, and it's not like other characters can't offer many unique concepts as well (and one could argue even more than her because they would highlight things in Sonic's World and not be cut off in a different dimension). If you think she'd be better that's dandy, but she really doesn't have any more or less a chance at this point. 

[JustAfooL]

On 1/12/2019 at 5:53 PM, Rowl said:

 Same goes with DKC, Wario Land and Yoshi's Island.

That statement is suspect, considering Wario Land spun off of the Mario Land series (to the point its original Japanese title is スーパーマリオランド3 ワリオランド or Super Mario Land 3: Wario Land) and didn't truly come into its own play-style and signature mechanics until the third installment, Wario Land II (let's not forget Virtual Boy Wario Land, since it was also produced by Gunpei Yokoi [who had produced all of the Mario Land games, which includes Wario Land] and co-directed by Hiroji Kiyotake [who had served as a director on Super Mario Land 2 and Wario Land] and didn't change the core mechanics either, despite coming out a year after Donkey Kong Country), which was released three years after Yoshi's Island and its own prior game. The fact Nintendo R&D1 took that long too move from the core Mario mechanics, and then later move to a Metroidvaina-esque style for Wario Land 4 that led to them using that game's engine for a core Metroid game,  despite the examples given in those two games undermines that argument.

... 

That all aside, there could be merit in a downloadable Metroidvania featuring maybe Tails, Knuckles or perhaps any non-speed focused character.  Although, it would probably have to be mostly Classic characters in order to appeal to most fans at this point, sadly.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by JustAfooL
Clarification of intent; also typos. Also, nothing against you Rowl.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

15 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

If you think she'd be better that's dandy, but she really doesn't have any more or less a chance at this point. 

If we are speaking realistically here. Then unless somebody within SonicTeam has a big change of heart or somebody new joins them who is really passionate about making spinoff games staring the side cast... otherwise I don't realistically see any new games staring any other character happening any time soon whatsoever no matter how much merit they may have. But I don't think that is what this topic really is about... we are discussing ideas we would like to see happen more then we are talking about if we think it will actually happen.

[Rowl]

10 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I really don't agree with you here. And I feel like you are ignoring everybody's augments for what would even make her game different too and simply are pushing a false narrative that everything involved around Blaze is just a pure copy and can't be anything else when that easily wouldn't need to be the case as explained by multiple people here. It doesn't matter what other spinoff games do, especially Nintendo's methods are not the only answer in life.

But... isn't this actually the point of Blaze's creation? She was meant to be a female version of Sonic. Everything about her, her design, her abilities, her role in her home dimension was intended to be (almost) the same as Sonic. I mean, sure they can add some new things here and there like Nintendo did with Luigi, Yoshi and Wario, but... I'm not sure if that is the thing that people want form Blaze. The reason why she has become so popular in the first place is, because she is just like Sonic, a female Sonic that is as powerful and cool like him.

[DabigRG]

7 hours ago, Rowl said:

But... isn't this actually the point of Blaze's creation? She was meant to be a female version of Sonic. Everything about her, her design, her abilities, her role in her home dimension was intended to be (almost) the same as Sonic. I mean, sure they can add some new things here and there like Nintendo did with Luigi, Yoshi and Wario, but... I'm not sure if that is the thing that people want form Blaze. The reason why she has become so popular in the first place is, because she is just like Sonic, a female Sonic that is as powerful and cool like him.

Gameplay-wise, sure, for the most part.

Character design, personality, ability, and motif wise, though, she's mostly her own thing.

[Sonictrainer]

9 hours ago, Rowl said:

But... isn't this actually the point of Blaze's creation? She was meant to be a female version of Sonic.

Sure we're not talking about Classic Amy?

9 hours ago, Rowl said:

Everything about her, her design, her abilities, her role in her home dimension was intended to be (almost) the same as Sonic. The reason why she has become so popular in the first place is, because she is just like Sonic, a female Sonic that is as powerful and cool like him.

When I think of Blaze, I don't think of a wandering nomad that loves chili dogs, travel, and extremely long walks on beaches.

I think of a princess of a kingdom that is shy, elegant, and seems to have an education but can be hotheaded, harsh, and still make mistakes. Also, she might still be afraid of heights despite being able to use her pyrokinesis to fly.

If anything she's like a mix of several other characters including Knuckles, Cream, and possibly Amy.

9 hours ago, Rowl said:

I mean, sure they can add some new things here and there like Nintendo did with Luigi, Yoshi and Wario, but... I'm not sure if that is the thing that people want form Blaze.

The concept of further exploring Blaze's Dimension has been an accepted game idea for a while now. It's somewhere on the wishlist of Sonic games between Sonic/SEGA Smash Bros. and Sonic Adventure 3.

2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Gameplay-wise, sure, for the most part.

Character design, personality, ability, and motif wise, though, she's mostly her own thing.

Even her animations are different from Sonic's.

[Dejimon11]

Been thinking about this for a while. Most of the alternate gameplay styles that were in the 3D games should of been spinoff titles from the get go.  I like some them in concept but I'd be lying if I didn't say that they were all half assed attempt at padding the games length instead of giving more levels to the real meat of the game. They just felt out of place where the main focus is about high speed platforming. 

An Eggman spinoff based around his mech concept in the same vein as the Mis-Adventures of Tron Bonne would be glorious. Robbing banks, causing havoc in the city, building enough materials to create weapons of mass destruction. Dude this would be awesome I'm mad as hell this isn't real yet.

I always said that the Werehog would of been perfect for Knuckles so just give him a beat em up game with more fleshed out combat similar to something like Bayonetta and Devil May Cry. And use his glide ability to explore the hub worlds and find some hidden goodies. 

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that they could make a game centering around the Chaotix actually being detectives for once and it could lead into a comical adventure. The only thing that pops to my mind are the investigation segments in the Ace Attorney series. Which are probably the weakest parts because everybody just like going to the trails  

Amy is that character that they can do whatever the hell they want with. But I wouldn't mind a more fleshed out version of how she played in SA1 since it was basically a standard platformer just with the occasional case sequences to "spice" things up.

Silver arguably has the best potential for a spinoff game due to his physic powers. Could be like something along the lines of the Force unleashed or Psychonaughts idk. 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

On 1/13/2019 at 4:44 AM, Rowl said:

But... isn't this actually the point of Blaze's creation? She was meant to be a female version of Sonic. Everything about her, her design, her abilities, her role in her home dimension was intended to be (almost) the same as Sonic.

That line of thought already ends-up roughly half wrong. Last I checked Sonic doesn't have fire powers... a power of which could be greatly expended upon.

Sonic Isn't royalty with a kingdom which they have great responsibilities for.

Sonic isn't a specific guardian of anything like Blaze is.

Personality-wise Sonic isn't a noble shy kinda-grumpy introvert. Blaze is closer to being a fusion of Sonic+Knuckles+Shadow then she is a copy of purely Sonic... And even with that said... Blaze has traits that doesn't match those 3 listed characters at all.

All of that already makes Blaze far more different then somebody such as Luigi who used to literally be just a recolor player #2 of Mario.

On 1/13/2019 at 4:44 AM, Rowl said:

I mean, sure they can add some new things here and there like Nintendo did with Luigi, Yoshi and Wario, but... I'm not sure if that is the thing that people want form Blaze. The reason why she has become so popular in the first place is, because she is just like Sonic, a female Sonic that is as powerful and cool like him.

Aren’t you the one who said Nintendo’s spinoff games often simply took characters from the normal games and expended/evolved their concepts farther in order to make their own original games? Blaze offers enough unique ideas they could do that same concept with. And no… Blaze being similar to Sonic in certain ways, AKA the fact she is a awesome, strong and fast action star character... is only some of many reasons her fans like her. The majority of Blaze fans don't view her as a mere Sonic clone nor would they be against SEGA adding more unique elements to Blaze and doing different stuff with her.

 

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

The only irrelavant character who is really popular enough at this point to warrant their own spinoff series to me is shadow. Hes been consistently popular with fans for a long time, even though he has his share of haters. The other characters dont really seem too popular or notable to me outside of the diehard fans of the games in which they appear. Blaze, silver, you name it.

 

I said irrelavant because almost all of the side characters in the franchise are essentially irrelevant now.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

1 hour ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

The only irrelavant character who is really popular enough at this point to warrant their own spinoff series to me is shadow. Hes been consistently popular with fans for a long time, even though he has his share of haters. The other characters dont really seem too popular or notable to me outside of the diehard fans of the games in which they appear. Blaze, silver, you name it.

I don't really see Shadow nowadays still being the degree of hugely popular as much that some folks imply. And is high level popularity really the only choice in your mind for why a character should be given a spinoff? Typically characters in general will simply become more popular the more content is given of them... meaning many characters could do well in theory if given actually good games to back them up. Personally I think other characters such as Blaze/Vector/Tails/Rouge/Metal-Sonic/ETC are popular enough that anybody would be willing to give them a chance if put in a good game... even people who haven't heard of them likely would be fine with it as long they hear the actual game is good... afterall people play games with characters they never heard of before all the time outside of Sonic games. And I'm not going to say nothing interesting could be done with Shadow... But I curious to know... What could actually be done with him to make a game staring him alone feel worth it? Last time in a otherwise Sonic style game they just tried to give him guns and other surface level GTA nonsense... and those ideas even on a concept level were kinda bad.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

18 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I don't really see Shadow nowadays still being the degree of hugely popular as much that some folks imply. And is high level popularity really the only choice in your mind for why a character should be given a spinoff? Typically characters in general will simply become more popular the more content is given of them... meaning many characters could do well in theory if given actually good games to back them up. Personally I think other characters such as Blaze/Vector/Tails/Rouge/Metal-Sonic/ETC are popular enough that anybody would be willing to give them a chance if put in a good game... even people who haven't heard of them likely would be fine with it as long they hear the actual game is good... afterall people play games with characters they never heard of before all the time outside of Sonic games. And I'm not going to say nothing interesting could be done with Shadow... But I curious to know... What could actually be done with him to make a game staring him alone feel worth it? Last time in a otherwise Sonic style game they just tried to give him guns and other surface level GTA nonsense... and those ideas even on a concept level were kinda bad.

I mean I'm not going on a crusade advocating for shadow to get better treatment or anything, I'm not a part of that fan club really. But yeah, I think spinoff games typically happen because a character is popular enough.

(Red pill moment: what if I told you, the entire mario franchise is a spinoff franchise?)

Joke aside, yeah that's usually what happens. And shadow is sort of the poster boy for the often forgotten unofficial "adventure era" in the franchise.

Sure other characters could get a spinoff game, I'm just not sure when or why it would happen. If you think about when it has happened before in this franchise, it's usually somewhat soon after the introduction of a side character. Tails and knuckles (terrible) spin offs happened pretty much right after they were introduced, to capitalize off of the popularity of the recent main title.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

22 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

(Red pill moment: what if I told you, the entire mario franchise is a spinoff franchise?)

I'm aware that Mario was originally going to be a Popeye game if that is what you are implying.

Anyways I strongly just don't feel that only picking the highest popular character is the right choice or the only answer when making a spinoff game. Besides no side cast character in Sonic has even co-stared in a game in ages... So the idea of SEGA only wanting to make spinoffs of characters that are both new and popular would be a big mistake in my opinion when they have so many others with tons of potential they can already choose from.

[Dash Speed]

Just give Shadow another shot but give him to a developer that can do his moveset justice like Hideki Kamiya or Itsuno.

[DabigRG]

A Big fishing downloadable game might've been neat for motion controls.