Leadership and Team Dark

[dbzfan7]

Here's going to be the thread for this. Who do you feel is the leader. Why do you feel they are the leader. Why are they a good or bad leader. The thread is here for this now.

I'll sum my thoughts out quickly. Rouge feels more the real team leader. She has far more qualities of it than her compatriots do. She's a great planner, she's a great people person, she knows how to get what she wants. She understands basics of working together, etc. She shows far more capability than the likes of Shadow and especially Omega.

On the other hand I don't deny Shadows claim to it, despite being about as good as Knuckles is at it if not worse. Sharing the title more than being good at it.

[Marco9966]

Rouge is the leader because she is the founder.

What did Shadow do to be the leader? He always leave and works on his own against the plans of the team (see IDW Sonic).

[Red Hot Jack]

Rouge is the mind and heart of the team. Shadow is the main force and soldier. Omega is the funny robotic powerhouse. I think they are a great squad.

[Muscles Maximum]

Rouge would’ve been considered leader in Heroes having brought the team together. 

Though obviously after that Shadow was always considered leader since he’s the most popular and memorable. No one remembers team dark as “oh yeah Rouge’s team!”

Truthfully though I never really feel like any of them are a true leader. They’re just a group that does missions together. 

[Diogenes]

Let Omega be the leader. There's no problem in the series that couldn't be solved through liberal application of bullets, fire, and explosives, so he is clearly the best choice.

Seriously though it should be Rouge. She's the only one level headed and thoughtful enough to be responsible for other people. Shadow's too far up his own ass and Omega just wants to destroy whatever gets in his way.

[Kuzu]

Honestly, I feel like there doesn't need to be an officially appointed leader. Even in Heroes, the only reason they teamed up was out of convenience; if Shadow or Omega felt like it, they'd fuck off and she'd be powerless to stop them.

Obviously Shadow is the most recognizable and will generally be put in the front and center, but they all operate equally for the most part.

[Celestia]

Yeah it depends on the context, they don't exactly act like it's a formal team or anything even during the time they were explicitly working for GUN. Sometimes Shadow calls a shot, sometimes Rouge does, Omega gets to feel like he's the leader whenever violence actually is the obvious answer...it's the same with the other "teams" too.

I'm not a big fan of the locked team setup anyway. For one thing I'd generally associate Amy as a part of "Sonic's team," especially as of recent games.

[Wraith]

They would react fluidly to the situation and contribute whatever insight they have since that's really what working in a team is about, but Rouge sees the bigger picture most of the time being as crafty and experienced as she is and the other two trust her judgement enough to follow along.

 

[Gumbit]

I don't see the point of arguing about who should be the leader , when Sonic team don't give that any value and maybe don't even understand that , simply the only standard for them to handle major roles is a popular male  character hence why Knuckles was the leader of the resistance  . I hardly see any true leadership in any team , they just go on with each other to achieve missions . We all know that Shadow will be the leader , despite him qualified or not , you are just wasting your time .

[Your Vest Friend]

I think one point that may be under-represented in this conversation is that the games have been pushing away from Rouge's responsible characteristics that were most prevalent during the Shadow era. Not that they went away fully (see: Forces), but she's more flighty and playful primarily. Leadership isn't as strongly woven into her character as, say, the likes of Vector, and I think that's part of why the shift has occurred. 

[Dr. Detective]

I don't really view Team Dark as a structured team with a hierarchy. I figured it was something that's played rather fast and loose and comes about depending on the general circumstances. If they're going to have a leader, then sure, Rouge is the best choice. Shadow's kind of gives of the vibe of a lone mercenary type who has his set of buddies to hang with when the need arises. Omega's a walking arsenal of death and destruction. You send him on a recon mission and he treats it like an extermination.

However, I don't really approach Team Dark that way. I like the way it felt in Heroes where it was just three dudes, getting together, fucking up Eggman's plans for personal motivation purposes. I'd love to see them do that again. When appropriate.

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Assuming there must be a leader?

I feel that if we asked them, Rouge would totally agree that Shadow is a leader ... and then always convince him to do things her way, by manipulating if necessary.

She's a sneaky spy, that's what she does.

[StaticMania]

The leader is...whoever's the most qualified to handle specific situations.

Soooooooo, it's not E-123 Omega storm.

[Shadowlax]

I dunno man, I don't think team dark shouldn't even be a thing?

But at least in my mind , its like the avengers. The leader of the team at any given moment depends on who they are fighting. " Oh we doing a shadow thing, shadow the leader" " Oh we doing a rouge thing , rouge calls the shots " I dunno I don't think its a sonic and knuckles situation where you could see them fighting over it. They are I dunno supposed to read a bit older than the other characters and see them treating this as more "professional " than some of the other characters.

That said again I think team dark is bad and shouldn't be a thing

20 hours ago, Jack in the Snow said:

Rouge is the mind and heart of the team. Shadow is the main force and soldier. Omega is the funny robotic powerhouse. I think they are a great squad.

Actually I could make the argument shadow's actually the heart of the team? He's just a dick? One of my favorite stories is shadow like telling rouge to give blaze her sol emerald back. Yeah some people aren't fond of that story, but I think that's a good dynamic. Despite shadow's cold demeanor and willingness to murder overall he's probably the goody two shoes of that team. The moral center I guess, rouge is strait up a thief and Omega is a homicidal robot, Shadow's just in this shit for pure... humanitarian? Mobanitarian? Reasons. That isn't to say shadow isn't a jerk sometimes and willing to murder, but the idea i get from the games and some of the old comics is that shadow is rouge around the edges but guy is super heroic and wiling to make sacrifice and they kinda look up to him for that. Like I feel like if it wasn't for shadow's drive to make the world(s) a better place , that team wouldn't existed past one game. And I think we will see that with No gun in this new comic.

 

As for Omega you could legit make the argument that he isn't really much of a power house compared to everyone else in sonic. But he's a funny robot, and that's fun.

[Kuzu]

Shadow had to be guilt tripped into doing that by Blaze sooo...

[Shadowlax]

19 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Shadow had to be guilt tripped into doing that by Blaze sooo...

You aren't worng. Like I said, shadow isn't perfect. But I felt like even in that situation amy went to shadow about that and not rouge because she knew that should could convince him out of the three. That's how I read it at least

Like I said, Team Dark aren't glorious golden gods of heroes that walk the earth, but out of the three shadow's goal is to try and do good and that seems to be his only goal, and that goal is why that team exists. I feel. Sort of ironic given shadow's status as "Mr. Unsmiley "

Edit: Actually I think amy strait up says " I'll know he'll do the right thing " about that , so yeah

[Kuzu]

But the thing about Shadow is that he's not a people person, which is the contrast between him and Sonic despite their similarities.

He's not the type who will try to be someone's moral compass, at least intentionally 

He's just someone who pursues his own justice by any means necessary.

 

So I wouldn't really call him the heart in any sense. He's more like their most reliable soldier since he's committed to getting his shit done 

[Skull Leader]

I think that by this point, the relation between Rouge and Shadow is more about being partners (although Shadow will get more focus since, you know, "S" male hedgehog thing) that are more or less equal, with Omega being the tag-along piece of mobile artillery who is just there to destroy inferior consumer grade robots.

[Shadowlax]

On 1/19/2019 at 2:51 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

But the thing about Shadow is that he's not a people person, which is the contrast between him and Sonic despite their similarities.

That's fair

On 1/19/2019 at 2:51 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

He's not the type who will try to be someone's moral compass, at least intentionally 

 

 

On 1/19/2019 at 2:51 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

He's just someone who pursues his own justice by any means necessary.

To be fair, that doesn't really negate the previous thing.

 

On 1/19/2019 at 2:51 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

So I wouldn't really call him the heart in any sense. He's more like their most reliable soldier since he's committed to getting his shit done 

Ok

We had an argument in the other thread , where I was very much on the otherside of the " Have shadow do edgy things debate " where I argued he didn't do enough and looked like a joke in issue 6. So this might come as a shock to you what i'm about to say

You are looking at this way too edgy my guy.

I get it, he's literally named shadow. He used a gun, he owns a motorcycle, he's anti social and kind of jerk. But you are so stuck on trying to see shadow as purely an edge-lord and forget , he's a hero. He's a character who despite the fucking universe seemingly telling him he should not by anymeans to trust anyone, and should only look out for himself, chooses to help people and the world. He continues to do good things, in spite of himself, because he seems something greater than himself and is willing to sacrifice himself. He's a hero.  And he inspires them, I think this has been communicated multiple times.  He's the heart of that team because he's inspiring them to do this shit and they follow him around. With out his drive there wouldn't be any team.

Yeah , he's edgy. But he's a hero, and despite his flaws a pretty good person. He's the heart of that team, its no question in that. With out him and his drive to do good, there's no team .

[Gumbit]

10 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

I think that by this point, the relation between Rouge and Shadow is more about being partners (although Shadow will get more focus since, you know, "S" male hedgehog thing) that are more or less equal, with Omega being the tag-along piece of mobile artillery who is just there to destroy inferior consumer grade robots.

That what most of groups they just team up and follow , there is no real leader ship .

[Kuzu]

20 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

That's fair

 

 

To be fair, that doesn't really negate the previous thing.

 

Ok

We had an argument in the other thread , where I was very much on the otherside of the " Have shadow do edgy things debate " where I argued he didn't do enough and looked like a joke in issue 6. So this might come as a shock to you what i'm about to say

You are looking at this way too edgy my guy.

I get it, he's literally named shadow. He used a gun, he owns a motorcycle, he's anti social and kind of jerk. But you are so stuck on trying to see shadow as purely an edge-lord and forget , he's a hero. He's a character who despite the fucking universe seemingly telling him he should not by anymeans to trust anyone, and should only look out for himself, chooses to help people and the world. He continues to do good things, in spite of himself, because he seems something greater than himself and is willing to sacrifice himself. He's a hero.  And he inspires them, I think this has been communicated multiple times.  He's the heart of that team because he's inspiring them to do this shit and they follow him around. With out his drive there wouldn't be any team.

Yeah , he's edgy. But he's a hero, and despite his flaws a pretty good person. He's the heart of that team, its no question in that. With out him and his drive to do good, there's no team .

...I didn't say Shadow was an edge-lord? 

All I said was that..he's not really a paragon, like Sonic is. He's flawed, really flawed. That's not to say he can't be inspiring, but it's kind of hard to see because of those flaws he has. 

[Dash Speed]

I think Shadow should be a lone wolf and basically acts on his own interests when on a team.

[Shadowlax]

On 1/21/2019 at 11:40 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

...I didn't say Shadow was an edge-lord? 

All I said was that..he's not really a paragon, like Sonic is. He's flawed, really flawed. That's not to say he can't be inspiring, but it's kind of hard to see because of those flaws he has. 

Short version:

Guy who turned his life around and became an inspiration to others is a pretty common trope in fiction. And kind of the whole deal with characters like wolverine who has definitely done , and not tried to but done way worse shit than most sonic characters can ever dream of. And on that same note shadow isn't " Really flawed " enough to which its hard to see. Its pretty easy to see, its actually his entire arc. Shadow ain't perfect, its why I like him, but I dunno given all the shit he's been through and seeing persevere, that's easy to see that being inspiration to others. Especially those who aren't exactly squeaky clean morally.

[Kuzu]

7 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Short version:

Guy who turned his life around and became an inspiration to others is a pretty common trope in fiction. And kind of the whole deal with characters like wolverine who has definitely done , and not tried to but done way worse shit than most sonic characters can ever dream of. And on that same note shadow isn't " Really flawed " enough to which its hard to see. Its pretty easy to see, its actually his entire arc. Shadow ain't perfect, its why I like him, but I dunno given all the shit he's been through and seeing persevere, that's easy to see that being inspiration to others. Especially those who aren't exactly squeaky clean morally.

Yes, but in the context of Sonic, Shadow's done bad things. Shadow still is willing to do bad things if he feels he has to. That's fine, because it makes him a good foil to the morally uptight heroes, particularly to Sonic. But it's also why I can't see Shadow as an inspiration.

He's turned his life around sure, but he's still willing to dirty his hands to achieve a greater ends and that constantly puts him in conflict with the other heroes who don't agree with that.

 

An easier way to say this; Shadow may be a hero and will risk life and limb to save the day, but that doesn't make him a good guy.

[Dash Speed]

I don't see how Shadow is gonna be a proper anti hero if characters like Sonic, Knuckles and possibly Silver can easily stop him(like in Archie and his debut arc on here) from committing acts of sheer immorality for the sake of his own moral beliefs.