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The Deadly Six will stay...


Rowl
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... and that is probably a good thing. Well, at least in my eyes. The Sonic series kinda needs characters like the Deadly Six right now for many reasons. First off, they are bad guys. When it comes to villains in the Sonic series, Sega and Sonic Team handles them mostly as simple monsters/big bads of the week. They come, do stuff and then die. The Deadly Six could be the first real recurring villains of the Sonic series. Dr. Eggman feels kinda... repetitive at this point. Plus with Forces, his biggest triumph right now, it is kinda hard to top this. Zavok and his five demon friends can actually fresh things a bit up. Also with a handful returning villains, an old one can take a bit of a break. I take the poor Dr. Eggman a bit for granted right now. It is the same situation with Bowser of the Mario Series. Both are great villains, but always pull a similar stick for years. A break can be good for Eggman.

Also, the Deadly Six, to be quite honest, can be better used for stories, than a lot of Sonic's friends. Some of them are so specific written characters that in the end they can only be used for storylines, that have them in the focus. Blaze is too much tied in with her dimension world, Silver with the future, The Babylon Rouges with the Riders Series, Shadow with his backstory, and Rouge and Omega are also to close to Shadow's story. And characters like the Chaotix, Big and Cream serve almost no role in the stories anymore. 

Plus, I kinda adore the designs of The Deadly Six. They are one of the very few characters in the series that do not use the Felix-the-Cat-design. That makes the universe a bit more varied. I'm actually very fine with them to be recurring characters. 

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Not in the current state is that a good thing.

I’ve actually seen them written far more interesting than what the games have done (in one of my most hated arcs of Archie Sonic, surprisingly enough) so I sure as hell won’t say they need to GTFO, but they need some serious reworking to make them decent. Not that it’s hard to do.

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To be honest at this rate it's looking more like it's "Zavok (and maybe Zazz) will stay." And even then, with Forces only having him in illusion/reality warping form and not the real deal, I think it's safe to predict we won't be seeing him much in main games. Spin-offs, maybe.

Basically I'm actually not against them being mainstays but it seems unlikely.

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First let them appear in the 2nd main tittle game, not as clone/timetravel/etc. Now THAT will be interesting.

For now they just another paperwall to be slapped on next Sonic game hoping to attract their fans. Something to fill up space in Olympics, Dash or IDK racing game. They aren't 'staying' more than Chaos did.

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1 hour ago, DreamSaturn said:

If they actually bothered to give Zavok a personality beyond "Mwahaha I am evil" and gave him a satisfying backstory, maybe I'd be happier about it. But currently it's just another cardboard box that Sonic has to fight.

I mean, he does technically have those things. The real issue, particularly as of late, is that they haven't done that much to play or explore with it.

 

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Just now, DabigRG said:

I mean, he does technically have those things. The real issue, particularly as of late, is that they haven't done that much to play or explore with it.

Let's not be pedantic.

What is Zavok's backstory? Where did he come from? What's his place in the world? What's his motivation? What shaped him into being evil? None of the questions have been answered.

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17 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

What is Zavok's backstory?  What shaped him into being evil? 

He is the [last?] pupil of Master Zik, who taught him the art of patience, combat, and deriving any form of opportunistic and/or sadistic gain from defeating his enemies. 

17 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

 What's his place in the world?

Either Lost Hex or wherever else the Zeti are originally from.

And where is that? Who knows--both the Zeti race and especially the Band of Six themselves could use a little exposition.

17 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

What's his motivation?

And that, my dear Wolfie, is where they need to do the most work.

Within their introduction of Lost World, it's getting revenge in the best way possible; after and even before that is a question mark, though he seems to enjoy sharpening his skills.

 

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1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

He is the [last?] pupil of Master Zik, who taught him the art of patience, combat, and deriving any form of opportunistic and/or sadistic gain from defeating his enemies.

That just raises even more questions about his upringing. How did he find Zik? What's his reasoning for following him to begin with?

1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Either Lost Hex or wherever else the Zeti are originally from.

And where is that? Who knows--both the Zeti race and especially the Band of Six themselves could use a little exposition.

What even is the Lost Hex? Where did THAT come from? How does Tails know about it? Has it always just been floating there in the sky?

There are things we can infer, but the problem is nothing in the games bothers to expand upon any of it. Maybe the comics will in the future, but they exist in a separate universe from the games.

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19 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

That just raises even more questions about his upringing. 

 

Such is often the way.

19 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

How did he find Zik?

Hm...that could make for an tantilizing tale.

19 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

 What's his reasoning for following him to begin with?

 

What's Zomom and Zeena's reasoning for following either of them?

19 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

 

What even is the Lost Hex? Where did THAT come from? How does Tails know about it? Has it always just been floating there in the sky?

 

1.A floating continent of illusions(?) made up of hexagonal plate tectonics. 

2.Nobody kno-o-ows...! ...You know, except maybe Zik and by extension, Zavok. 

It may or may not be parts of the world below that broke off and floated upward, but it's hard to quote that.

3.Because it's a flying continent that somehow exists there in the sky.

Also, there's probably some records of strange electromagnetic readings up there and/or accounts of why you wanna stay the hell away from it.

4.Maybe-ish. I'm assuming there's some sort of event that led to it being there.

19 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

 

There are things we can infer, but the problem is nothing in the games bothers to expand upon any of it. Maybe the comics will in the future, but they exist in a separate universe from the games.

Pretty much.

 

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That title sounds like a threat or a doom sentence. Sorry.

But no... I only like Zavok out of them, some are really bland and annoying, and villain fodder, Zavok is the only one with a cool badass design and a bit of personality, he is actually pretty evil, with no reason or backstory and honestly I like that, he's simple and doesn't need a tragic past. Bowser doesn't have a backstory either (to keep going with the comparison). 

But... I certainly think Sonic desperately needs more recurring antagonists, and Zavok definitely can fit into this. Plus, I do agree that the design is not bad and it's different from the usual furries, it gives more variety to the series.

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12 hours ago, DreamSaturn said:

What is Zavok's backstory? Where did he come from? What's his place in the world? What's his motivation? What shaped him into being evil? None of the questions have been answered.

Well it's alright that none of these have been answered, because it's not necessary.

It's extremely ridiculous to act as if getting the answers will automatically make the characters interesting.

A lot of the time...it doesn't. A lot of the time...it makes characters less (or even less) interesting. A lot of the time...it adds nothing.

For the type of characters they are, they do not need any of those things.

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2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Well it's alright that none of these have been answered, because it's not necessary.

It's extremely ridiculous to act as if getting the answers will automatically make the characters interesting.

A lot of the time...it doesn't. A lot of the time...it makes characters less (or even less) interesting. A lot of the time...it adds nothing.

For the type of characters they are, they do not need any of those things.

There's a reason Shadow was such a beloved character in SA2, and it wasn't retroactive love from later appearances where he was basically just Sephiroth the Hedgehog.

Giving us a reason to give a shit about the characters would go a long way.

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Just have him written better. With more personality traits, I think he could turn out as a great villain... potentially. Deadly Six are generally known for being one note so I would fix that. Also he should be less generic and more of a fun villain, for example Flynn made the boring Neo Metal Sonic into a badass and very fun big bad. Better than Heroes at least. Infinite could have had the chance too, if Sega would let him be used into the comics.

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36 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Well it's alright that none of these have been answered, because it's not necessary.

It's extremely ridiculous to act as if getting the answers will automatically make the characters interesting.

A lot of the time...it doesn't. A lot of the time...it makes characters less (or even less) interesting. A lot of the time...it adds nothing.

For the type of characters they are, they do not need any of those things.

Soooo what should intrigue me about him then exactly?

We're seriously getting into Star Wars Rey character category. We know nothing more about her at the end of the 2nd movie than the minute we first saw her, yet we're supposed to be interested/invested in her character?

Right now, both characters are as deep as a dried out puddle.

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32 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

Giving us a reason to give a shit about the characters would go a long way. 

The thing that makes people care about a character how they're written as they currently.

Backstories only exist to add to what's already there in base. If what was there wasn't good...then how exactly will learning about them make the character better?

I don't exactly know what makes people continue to like Shadow now based off his characterization in anything past Heroes, but I find his original portrayal to be the most interesting as a character even without his backstory.

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2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The thing that makes people care about a character how they're written as they currently.

Backstories only exist to add to what's already there in base. If what was there wasn't good...then how exactly will learning about them make the character better?

Because learning more about characters would help a lot. Take for example the Jedi Exile in Knights of the Old Republic II. It starts off as just a kinda blank slate, but through the story of the game we learn more about them, their history, and how they connect to the greater Star Wars universe.

How would giving us something to actually care about beyond being another personal cardboard cutout bully for Sonic be a bad thing?

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2 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

How would giving us something to actually care about beyond being another personal cardboard cutout bully for Sonic be a bad thing?

I didn't say it would be a bad thing, I said it would be unnecessary.

I want to know...how learning about Zavok would help improve the character.

That Star Wars example you gave sounds like the focus is less on the character and just an interesting lore/world building thing.

It doesn't seem like the thing Zavok would get, not at this point in the series anyway.

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Just now, StaticMania said:

I didn't say it would be a bad thing, I said it would be unnecessary.

I want to know...how learning about Zavok would help improve the character.

Well, would Shadow have been nearly as interesting of a character if we didn't know his story? The ARK, Maria, Gerald, the Biolizard, the connection to the Echidna tribe and the Gizoids, etc.?

Actually having a character to him would be a start.

Giving him an actual place and role in Sonic's world could be nice, cluing us in on what the fuck things like Zeti and the Lost Hex even are, too. We didn't learn everything about the ARK and Shadow in Adventure 2, so it's not like building on things later on would be a new concept in the series.

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If Shadow was just an opposite Sonic? It could've been, I guess he woulda had to go through a different type of arc though.

The gizoids and black arms were unnecessary though. At least Sonic Battle has the excuse of being a spin-off, it's like a what-if story.

The Lost Hex's place on Sonic's World, it's like Little Planet, it just happens.

The Zeti however, they'd just have to introduce even more things...because they can't exactly tie them to the Chaos Emeralds like literally everything else.

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