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If Sega were to make a Sonic game taking place in SatAM...


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Seconded.

Perhaps not cry, but annoyed a lot at least. It would bring nothing new to the franchise. It would only reinforce the errors 06 and Shadow did.

I think the SatAM characters aren't Sonic's shitty friends. I think they are his shitty friends on a particular nasty bowel irritation day. Like those you stay in the loo for hours, if you can leave at all.

Wait..... You're putting the Freedom Fighters under the truck when we have characters like Silver the Hedgehog, Mephiles, and all the constant Godzilla monsters? You sir, are disrespectful to a quality cartoon that has held its worth for the good 15 years it was canceled. Furry soap opera? Oh yeah, conveying emotion is soap opera-ish? Really? Tell that to last year's Incredible Hulk, one of the greatest movies ever made that year. You certainly are not one to see the eye of quality.

The show was indeed tastefully dark. It wasn't Sonic06, it was a masterpiece of fighting from the dark to the light and epic, deep plots like that should always be looked at with great respect. Seriously, SatAM was The Dark Knight in its time. As many articles have said, SEGA was 10 years past their time. They entertained for older audiences and young alike with awesome characters and dang good games. When did Earthworm Jim ever get old huh? Never. It was only until the N64 game that Jim failed flat on his face (or so I have heard.)

P.S. I do not hate Silver all that much, just the way he has been handled. Plus, his design should be changed around if you ask me.

Edited by GREG THE CAT
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Seriously, SatAM was The Dark Knight in its time.

The Dark Knight of the early 90s was this:

Batman_the_Animated_Series_logo.jpg

Everything else that riffed off its success, with exceptions (SatAM not being one of them), were pretentious me-too copycats.

Oh yeah, conveying emotion is soap opera-ish?

Conveying emotions? No. Conveying emotions from one-dimensional American sitcom archtypes that remained static in characterization throughout the course of the show? Yes.

The show was indeed tastefully dark. It wasn't Sonic06, it was a masterpiece of fighting from the dark to the light and epic, deep plots like that should always be looked at with great respect.

They introduced a bumbling, goofy comic relief screw-up in the second season for no explained reason strictly so the show could pander even more to children. Just...no.

And if what Miko was saying in the other thread is true, the show was about a life and death struggle against some guy who hadn't even taken over a single city completely, meaning it was pretentious to a level I hadn't even dreamed.

Edited by Tornado
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Who cares which planet it is? How can that be important to a plot?

Tasteful? It was a furry soap opera. Not really nothing to boast about.

Shadow and 06 sucks and doesn't mesh well with Sonic, we all agree on that. Or the majority. No one wants something close to that again. Certainly not SatAM, who had a handful of Princesses Elises in the main cast.

I was stating a point to verify that the SatAM plotline is more developed than Sonic Team's. Even though we know Sonic Team's portrayal takes place on Earth, how long ago was it that we were absolutely, indisputably, beyond the SHADOW OF A DOUBT sure of that? 2001? SatAM said Mobius first episode. Anyway, I digress.

Don't get me wrong, I never said the SatAM storyline was akin to a Spielberg film, thus the adverb 'somewhat.' But the fact of the matter is, it's more developed than the Sonic Team plotline. I am not speaking subjectively, I am speaking generally...

Let me put this into perspective. For the sake of the debate, let's say Shadow the Hedgehog (which is Sonic Team's number one representing title of a 'dark' and 'deep' plot) was never made. And neither was SatAM. Then some big shot director has aspirations to make a Sonic the Hedgehog film, right? So, two fans present to him screenplays with two totally different plots; one similar to SatAM's, the other more similar to Shadow the Hedgehog's. This director is no huge Sonic fan, meaning he has no bias, he is looking to make money (pretty much like how SEGA thinks). So in the end, WHICH one do you think he is going to be more compelled to direct? The one about alien invasions and tasteless gunfights and in-your-face swearing, or the plot about a dystopian future ruled by a ruthless overlord with the power of turning anybody who opposes him into mindless drones and his only threat comes in the form of a motivated group of rebellious heroes determined to restore peace and sovereignty to the Kingdom and world that once was? If I were him, I'd go for the second one since it is more developed - it had a past, you know how it happened. Shadow had a past too, a past that was completely mindf*cked when you find out that he came to be from the blood of some uninspired 'stock' villain (which I will agree, the SatAM Robotnik adhered quite well to at times).

I am just saying that the plot SatAM offered was more thought out than Sonic Team's ever was at the time, it's why it still has legions of devoted fans to this day. That doesn't mean that a videogame in homage to the series would be a particularly good financial decision for SEGA. At best, it would make a good pseudo-RPG style game considering how story-related SatAM was. This is exactly why I never bag on Sonic Team's plot, no matter how convoluted it might be. The point is to play the games and have fun, crying at the end comes second priority.

Edited by nUcLeArEnVoY
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So in the end, WHICH one do you think he is going to be more compelled to direct?

The one that would make money. Generic dysotopian settings haven't been cool since the 80s, but convoluted action movies always make money. That being said, they were both late to the party. SatAM itself was dark and edgy in a style that had already been done to death 5 years before the first episode aired, and ShtH was dark and edgy in a style that had become a laughing stock before Sonic Heroes even came out.

Edited by Tornado
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Wait..... You're putting the Freedom Fighters under the truck when we have characters like Silver the Hedgehog, Mephiles, and all the constant Godzilla monsters? You sir, are disrespectful to a quality cartoon that has held its worth for the good 15 years it was canceled. Furry soap opera? Oh yeah, conveying emotion is soap opera-ish? Really? Tell that to last year's Incredible Hulk, one of the greatest movies ever made that year. You certainly are not one to see the eye of quality.

The show was indeed tastefully dark. It wasn't Sonic06, it was a masterpiece of fighting from the dark to the light and epic, deep plots like that should always be looked at with great respect. Seriously, SatAM was The Dark Knight in its time. As many articles have said, SEGA was 10 years past their time. They entertained for older audiences and young alike with awesome characters and dang good games. When did Earthworm Jim ever get old huh? Never. It was only until the N64 game that Jim failed flat on his face (or so I have heard.)

P.S. I do not hate Silver all that much, just the way he has been handled. Plus, his design should be changed around if you ask me.

Silver was cool since though he was super powered, he still had a nice story to him. Mephiles was a cool villain as well. At least he killed the hero once and did some pretty snazzy speeches to annoy Shadow. Sonic 06

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I really love the SatAM cast, so if a Sonic spin-off game allows me to play as Antoine and Bunnie, then I'll want to play it.

Ahaha, all this talk about SatAM being deep/not deep or whether or not it's pretentious makes me tilt my head. It was just another children's cartoon and a very loose tie-in to the games, but regardless I love the characters, and that's why I enjoyed the show a lot.

I honestly don't give a fuck about whether SatAM is deep or not, I found it fun to watch, that's all the reason I need to like it.

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Hmm. My response... *rubs chin*

What took you 16 years? o_o

Its funny, people are bagging the Archie comics, yet it's the closest thing to SatAM that's still around :)

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@Redmenace: Ahead of... Yeah, sorry for the screw up. And yes they were ahead of their time.

And your question here I dislike. "Good cartoons that aren't popular?" Mind I remind you of the great Invader Zim, who was canceled due to Nick's buying out of the show even though it was meant for MTV and be for adults. Plus, Ren and Stimpy was canceled as well for bad reason.

So to counter, good shows HAVE been taken off the air before. And SatAM was one of them. Oh and as for bad shows being popular, all I can say is Hannah Montana. Seriously... How did that pile of crap get popular in the first place?

Plus, you needn't forget Rugrats. That show SUCKED bigtime.

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I would be interested. SatAm was a fun little cartoon. Not really as deep or dark as it's fanbase likes to think it is, but it was a cool little world with lots of ancient mysteries, some interesting creatures and historical relics, as well as a villain who was actually kind of intimidating, especially for kids.

Such a game wouldn't need to be slow. Sonic in SatAm is quite fast, and even faster when he uses a power ring. His friends wouldn't need to be playable: they can, and probably would, be NPCs, acting as a supporting cast and enacting other parts of the mission off screen, chiming in via radio. Outside of Robotropolis, the world wouldn't need to be dark. There are actually quite a few sunny locales on Mobius, including the Great Forest, jungles, canyons, and ancient ruins. Not to mention, other locales taking place in the Void, on space stations and the icy tops of mountains are all within the realm of possibility.

The game wouldn't need to be that different from a typical Sonic game, really, outside of a different world.

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Seriously, SatAM was The Dark Knight in its time.

No. NO. BLOODY HELL NO! "The Dark Knight [if you are referring to the film] in its time" is simply Batman: The Animated Series, for its art style and writing, although I find Captain Planet a close second for its subject material, as I cannot recall any other cartoon series that addressed racism, the effects of war, drug abuse and, above all else, AIDS as direct as it did, but that's beside the point. Honestly, stop looking through nostalgia-tinted glasses and look at things objectively for God's sake. If I wanted to watch a Baron Valdimir Harkonnen rip-off take a bunch a rebels, I'd watch David Lynch's Dune. Period.

On topic, while I would just... walk away from this series if a full SatAM based game was released (especially before a third Rush installment), I would not say no if certain characters were given homage in the next Chronicles. For example, let us say that at some point that some of Professor Gerald Robotnik's work is touched upon and it mentions that through his study of the Gizoid, he was able to come up with a set of cybernetic prosthetic limbs and they were used on an individual missing their arm and legs. This would help juxtapose the professor's work prior to and after Maria's death, as well as contrast Dr. Eggman's current rule over... They never mentioned his actual level of success in that game did they? Oh well, let's just say he rules a country at the end of it. So, yeah not that hard. Just include a side mission involving the rescue of a strict, by-the-book GUN agent that is actually very cowardly, a merchant that just happens to be able to create upgrades for Omega out of junk you find and a computer technician that happens to issue some missions named Nicole or... I don't know... Maybe...

Sera. (Did I startle you?) There, homages made and scenario fulfilled. Well, good day.

P.S. Bring back Grounder units SEGA. Everyone loves drill these days. EVERYONE!

Edit: Greg, do you mean the first series on Nick or the second one on Spike, because the latter just sucked, losing its surrealist charm that made it stand out in the first place.

Edited by Burns
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...I probably wouldn't be interested. To me SatAM as a whole wasn't really about Sonic in the first place; It was more like some special tactics team of 90's stereotypes performing what could be terrorist like activities for the sake of bringing down some darkly evil, one dimensional villain who had nothing else going for himself personality wise other than "OMFG evil!!!" Sonic as a character in itself kind of bothered me since where he's just following his own sense of right and wrong in the games or even AoStH, he's basically coming off as some lackey doing all the dirty work the others can't do because they don't have his unique gift of speed.

As for consumer focus, I think some folks might agree with me when I say that nostalgia as a selling point doesn't automatically equal a good game, especially in THIS series. The recent games have been criticized for having too many gimmicks, new and/or unnecessary characters who add to the aforementioned gimmick/plot of the title, gradually dark storyline, etc. SatAM kind of already has some of that and then some compared to the current state of the game series, so to just lop all that in for the sake of maybe catering to a specific sector of the fan base at best at the risk of alienating the general gaming audience? Hmm...who do you think SEGA would cater to?

And I suppose that's that. Personally I do like the fact that the games are trying new things (i.e. the gimmicks like the Werehog and Storybook series) but I'll probably be the first to admit that some of them don't seem to be as well executed or thought out as I would like to think. Like Werehog's stretchy arms - I guess they were thinking that his abdominal strength would be the opposite to Sonic's spectacular leg speed, but the Stretch Armstrong feel to it? Eh...

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Silver was cool since though he was super powered, he still had a nice story to him. Mephiles was a cool villain as well. At least he killed the hero once and did some pretty snazzy speeches to annoy Shadow. Sonic 06’s story was pretty stupid, but neither Silver or Mephiles are the culprits. The princess, the time travel and the over the top sentimentalism was what sucked in that story. Good quality cartoon…. Opinion, I think it’s very crappy. It got canceled too, it can’t be that good. Things can be popular and crap but unpopular and good? That’s only for art pieces, and SatAM is very far from that. It’s like soap opera, and no, it’s not just because it’s conveying emotion but because the characters moved no one, they had no depth.

Tastefully dark? With plain characters and plain villains and plain puns that were present in every other cartoon of the time that was pretentious with their “darkness”? Please. The Dark Knight of its time. Did you even read/saw that? Oh wow, you sound like that crazy person that likes to pitch SatAM to SEGA over and over again. And SEGA 10 years past their time? I say they were 10 years before their time. The Dreamcast proves it.

If it wasn’t then we’d have a very big problem. One was a 16bit game the other a 20 minute show that had 26 episodes. The writers wouldn’t be just be idiots but retarded as well.

In Japan they knew that the planet was Earth. And Mario went around without people knowing which planet it was, Crash went around like that too, even Spyro. Thinks were named, like Green Hill and South Island, but there was no planet, now was it? No one knows if Naruto is on some kind of Earth or is a alien planet. No one cares either. It’s not relevant if you’re not going to have some kind of multiple planets plot. People would have assumed it's Earth, if no one said the contrary. Like the games, even the western manual ones (with a single exception).

I still don’t see the point of saying which planet it is since there’s nothing plot related to it. Or should I be whining because I’m not sure if the trees in the forest are sequoias or pine trees and therefore labeling the cartoon and game as without depth?

Well, quality =/= development. You can have a 900 page novel spanning for 3 books which has a lot of detail and still be crap, compared to a good 200 page children's book. I think everyone can agree with that.

For the sake of prespective, you can't put a game and a cartoon plot under the same light. They both have to answer to very different things and they have very different objectives. You can play a game without a good plot (or one that sucks) and still be satisfied in the end. You can't see a show without a good plot and be satisfied in the end. That's all the show is for. To convey a message. A game's goal is gameplay.

But let's assume we can. I'd laugh and pick neither. No one cares about generic plot with monotone characters, no one cares about furry drama either, an over the top story with idiotic concepts is appalable, and this is appliable from both sides.

Iizuka is someone who likes the dark side of the franchise, ie Shadow, or better, he invented it (he did SA2). You can't say SEGA or even Sonic Team is him either. The teams that did SA and SA2 were different, under very different directors ,with very different ideas.

I'd still say guns sell more than mediocre story. Halo and Killzone and whatever else is living proof of this.

It was a 16 bit game against a 20 minute show that spanned 26 episodes. It would be very jarring if the plot wasn't more thought out. Like I said before as well, it doesn't mean it's preferable.

Shadow the Hedgehog and even Sonic 06 have legions of fans. Yes, they exist, as ludicrous as it sounds. AOSTH had no plot and it has legions of fans as well, far more than SatAM has. It's known that people tend to prefer AOSTH to SatAM and a quick trip to the thread this was discussed shows it well.

It's true an RPG has more depth than a platformer, but I don't see the point you're making. Sonic was never meant to be a RPG in the first place, so why would it need to have a plot of one?

I'm packing 06, Shadow and SatAM in the kind of stuff Sonic doesn't need and should stay the hell from.

Fair enough. I still stand by my point, though. Games may look to story as a second priority above gameplay, but that's not really the impression I've received from Sonic Team's recent installments. This community is primarily catered to the game portrayal anyway, which is why I joined. To the OP, this fair load of negative reception should've been expected. I don't think it would be a good idea only because of how alienating it would be to new age Sonic fans.

Edited by nUcLeArEnVoY
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Just putting this out there, but that Metal Gear-style SatAM game that was unearthed a little while ago? I actually think that was pretty nifty.

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@Redmenace: Ahead of... Yeah, sorry for the screw up. And yes they were ahead of their time.

And your question here I dislike. "Good cartoons that aren't popular?" Mind I remind you of the great Invader Zim, who was canceled due to Nick's buying out of the show even though it was meant for MTV and be for adults. Plus, Ren and Stimpy was canceled as well for bad reason.

So to counter, good shows HAVE been taken off the air before. And SatAM was one of them. Oh and as for bad shows being popular, all I can say is Hannah Montana. Seriously... How did that pile of crap get popular in the first place?

Plus, you needn't forget Rugrats. That show SUCKED bigtime.

It's fine, though I get testy about SEGA a lot, so I probably sound a lot more pissed than I should.

Yeah, but those had reasons besides people watching. Sonic was cancelled because there wasn't enough people watching. Power Rangers aren't an excuse, they could've moved the show to another hour and compete with something else for example. If they didn't, then the cartoon wasn't worth it. There are very few exceptions to this, and SatAM is not one of them. Many have mentioned, it was alike many other cartoons of the time, had characters with no depth and a pretentious story that had nothing to do with the original work. It brought nothing new, it wasn't original, it was nothing special. It would have survived or brought back later if it had that intemporal quality classics have, but it hasn't. I'm sure people can like it, even love it, and think it was the best. But considering everything, it wasn't.

How did Twilight get so much success? Seriously, mass idiocracy sells big time. I'm sorry if anyone here is a fan of the twinkling vampire, but Christ on a Bike, that's not good in Cucklolander land let alone here.

Fair enough. I still stand by my point, though. Games may look to story as a second priority above gameplay, but that's not really the impression I've received from Sonic Team's recent installments. This community is primarily catered to the game portrayal anyway, which is why I joined. To the OP, this fair load of negative reception should've been expected. I don't think it would be a good idea only because of how alienating it would be to new age Sonic fans.

I understand that story is important, but like many have said before, if the gameplay is bad, then a game doesn't work it. Unleashed had good gameplay and good story. Neither were perfect, but they were entertaining, so I'll trust Sonic Team a bit more.

True that, the alienating part.

Just putting this out there, but that Metal Gear-style SatAM game that was unearthed a little while ago? I actually think that was pretty nifty.

Sonic Mars? I thought it was pretty weak, and nothing like Sonic should be.

Edited by redmenace
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Eh... I think SatAM is kinda crap. Both it and Sonic Underground I downloaded episodes of after watching them fondly as a kid and couldn't get into them. AoStH I'm still able to enjoy on some level. I also disliked how unSonicy the other characters were (though I'm not a hypocrite, I hate this in AoStH too).

As for a game... I'd buy it and enjoy it if the gameplay was good, but hell if it wouldn't be damn weird.

And finally, my opinion on that mega drive game that was unearthed... it sure was nifty in appearence but there was nothing Sonicy about it at all. Looked boring and formulaic to play as well. No replay value at all in the section we saw.

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Just 2 words.

FUCK.NO!

The SatAM show was just a show with furry animals staring Eggman(The worst one of all too), Tails(He was barley used anyway), and Sonic(A slow hedgehog unless with Power Rings).

AoSTH was great for so many reasons, but thats another topic. But the 1 reason why is because it was more like the games. It was Sonic & Tails adventuring the world while fighting Eggman.

So I would just say "SEGA has lost it!".

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@Tornado: Which one? The SEGA Technical Institute one or the Ironrind game? (Yes, Ironrind's not done with the Freedom Fighters YET! WHOOT!)

Eh... I think SatAM is kinda crap. Both it and Sonic Underground I downloaded episodes of after watching them fondly as a kid and couldn't get into them. AoStH I'm still able to enjoy on some level. I also disliked how unSonicy the other characters were (though I'm not a hypocrite, I hate this in AoStH too).

As for a game... I'd buy it and enjoy it if the gameplay was good, but hell if it wouldn't be damn weird.

And finally, my opinion on that mega drive game that was unearthed... it sure was nifty in appearence but there was nothing Sonicy about it at all. Looked boring and formulaic to play as well. No replay value at all in the section we saw.

Un-Sonicy? What are you opinions on the humans in the new games, eh? At least, they built upon the anthro idea and actually made it more SONIC than possible. I see mindless hate here. I really do.

Weird? What is this quality that you seem to see in it? There's nothing weird about SatAM. It simply is more developed than any other Sonic incarnation besides classic Sonic and Adventure Sonic.

Hmm... Really? What is your view on Unleashed's Daytime "rush-to-the-goal" gameplay? Is that truly cool to you?

Hmm, seeing as you were in charge of the Fan Art Wall of Summer of Sonic, I am now curious. Did my art ever show up there? You know, that one with Sally and Amy? You know very well what I am talking about I am sure. Why do I sense discrimination against SatAM fans? I saw and heard nothing related to SatAM (You didn't play the "Fastest Thing Alive" song? What?!?!!?!??! You played AoStH TWICE!) except for the Saturday Morning Sonic board advert, but that wasn't much. And yet, the only other SatAM ref. there was the Sonic Shorts (which I have to say was awesome).

It doesn't help that you people booed at Sally in the Sonic Quiz, jest or mistake in American translation. I don't care, you guys seem to have a deep hate for a character that has been developed far beyond the likes of Princess Elise. It's bad enough when you read it on a message board but to see the hate in real life? That's cold. That's ICE cold.

EDIT: I'm sorry for the misconception of SatAM as the Dark Knight of it's time. My mistake. It was the Dark Knight of the Sonic franchise and was ultimately incredible. Much more tolerable than Captain Planet that's f'sure.

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Now hold on a minute!

I know for a fact that Jezmm isn't like that! If he was, he would have so totally posted my fanart of Princess Sally being eaten by Robotnik like a Christmas turkey, but he didn't!

If he truly was biased against the character, and all that other stuff you said that I can't be bothered to read, then he would have definitely put up my awesome picture!

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Un-Sonicy? What are you opinions on the humans in the new games, eh?

My opinion is that they fit right in- The Sonic franchise began with a hedgehog and a human.

The Sonic franchise did not begin with with a mutated cyborg human. What matters is not the species, but the style and attitude of the characters.

Creative liberties are one thing, I think SatAM took it too far. That's just my opinion.

Edited by Dr. Mechano
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I can understand some people's dislike for Sally, but the SatAM hate's really silly. Saying its unSonicy because Robotnik had a metallic arm roboticized by Sonic's kind of ... yeah. Almost as bad as watching people whine about the chili dogs.

Looked boring and formulaic to play as well. No replay value at all in the section we saw.

How does the premise behind SatAM (which is essentially taking from Sonic 1 and 2) anymore boring and forumlaic? And while we're at it, let's also cite the "boring and formulaic" stories of the past 10 years.

Edited by Miko
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The robotic arm is the icing of the cake, really. There's a lot more complaints from where that one came from.

Edited by redmenace
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My opinion is that they fit right in- The Sonic franchise began with a hedgehog and a human.

The Sonic franchise did not begin with with a mutated cyborg human. What matters is not the species, but the style and attitude of the characters.

Creative liberties are one thing, I think SatAM took it too far. That's just my opinion.

They really did take their creative liberties too far. Animals being used as living batteries in the games becoming animals turned into metallic robots from a conversion of flesh to metal was just...off. I also never got that whole dictator vibe that SatAM Robotnik gave off; in the games he had the Death Egg and Egg Fortress but they were largely separate from the beautiful locale that he sent his minions to in order to scout for the Chaos Emeralds/hinder Sonic on his way.

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Hmm, seeing as you were in charge of the Fan Art Wall of Summer of Sonic, I am now curious. Did my art ever show up there? You know, that one with Sally and Amy? You know very well what I am talking about I am sure. Why do I sense discrimination against SatAM fans? I saw and heard nothing related to SatAM (You didn't play the "Fastest Thing Alive" song? What?!?!!?!??! You played AoStH TWICE!) except for the Saturday Morning Sonic board advert, but that wasn't much. And yet, the only other SatAM ref. there was the Sonic Shorts (which I have to say was awesome).

It doesn't help that you people booed at Sally in the Sonic Quiz, jest or mistake in American translation. I don't care, you guys seem to have a deep hate for a character that has been developed far beyond the likes of Princess Elise. It's bad enough when you read it on a message board but to see the hate in real life? That's cold. That's ICE cold.

I can't help but read this and look at it as complete nonsense. It just seems to me like you're personally offended by everyone who doesn't care for the show or the characters as much as you do. Going as far as to throw out words like 'discrimination' just because someone's opinion on SatAM differs from you. I didn't like SatAM or its characters either, you think I have some pent up hatred or 'discriminate' cause you enjoy it? Give me a break.

People can be pretty bad, I know. The booing that you described wasn't warranted, but I'll be honest and say it probably shouldn't bother you as much as it did? The people in this topic are expressing their opinion just as much as you are. Take it easy.

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Although a SatAM style Sonic game wouldn't sit well, I would like to see a Crisis on Infinite Earths type Sonic game with Sonic traveling through different Sonic Universes. It would be fun to see how Eggman would interact with his SatAM and AOSTH counterparts. I guess you could throw in the OVA universe too I guess.

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I suppose it could be sort of cool, I'm not enthusiastic about the idea but if it was a none cannon game (which it most likely would be) I could tolerate it. I like Sally in the series quite a bit and think it would be cool to play as her and the other characters. Bunnie Rabbot's mechanical arm would be awesome.

I've always found SatAM's tone one of he darkest incarnations of Sonic. Turning animals into robots is sort of like becoming a cyberman in Doctor Who. Encased in a metal shell forever, pretty gruesome. It makes for an interesting story but as I said, the idea itself doesn't interest me that much.

Edited by CreamyBagel
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