If Sega were to make a Sonic game taking place in SatAM...

[Miko]

They really did take their creative liberties too far. Animals being used as living batteries in the games becoming animals turned into metallic robots from a conversion of flesh to metal was just...off.

Actually from what I heard it was more of an exoskeleton but whatever, I guess. Considering the manual stories describe the process as turning animals into bots, and SatAM would later adapt Sonic Spinball (coming out the same year) which (and very explicitly) makes clear the concepr of Roboticization it's not too far off from the material that was actually out there. Besides the atmosphere's not very different. You've got locations Robotnik's largely taken over and a good deal of places he hasn't. And then there are those places stuck in the middle where he's in the process of trying to exploit the people/land but hasn't really gotten a firm grasp on it yet.

I also never got that whole dictator vibe that SatAM Robotnik gave off; in the games he had the Death Egg and Egg Fortress but they were largely separate from the beautiful locale that he sent his minions to in order to scout for the Chaos Emeralds/hinder Sonic on his way.

In the games its explained he's taken over cities, refineries and factories. There are locales in the game that would suggest he's conquered these places too. SatAM never said Robotnik took over the whole world, just over a pretty large city. So the dictator vibe isn't very off either considering he did conquer these things.

It makes for an interesting story but as I said, the idea itself doesn't interest me that much.

That's why it's an interesting story

Edited September 3, 2009 by Miko

[Picchi]

Animals being used as living batteries in the games becoming animals turned into metallic robots from a conversion of flesh to metal was just...off.

What's the big deal? In the games, Eggman hasn't used animals as "batteries" for ages. The roboticizer could just as easily be a new invention or something.

I thought it might be interesting to see Julian as a seperate entity from Eggman; Julian perhaps being a relative of his like how Gerald and Maria were.

While the premise of a SatAM game doesn't bother me, the execution of it's going to have to be different from the cartoon in order for it to have so much as a chance. How much has Robotnik taken over? What's the gameplay mechanics, and whose going to be in the game? Most of the characters with the exception of Bunnie don't seem as if they'd fit in very well. Especially Sally and Antione. That, or like Rotor, they aren't necessary because of the existance of some other character like Tails.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Picchi

[Greg the Fancat]

I can't help but read this and look at it as complete nonsense. It just seems to me like you're personally offended by everyone who doesn't care for the show or the characters as much as you do. Going as far as to throw out words like 'discrimination' just because someone's opinion on SatAM differs from you. I didn't like SatAM or its characters either, you think I have some pent up hatred or 'discriminate' cause you enjoy it? Give me a break.

People can be pretty bad, I know. The booing that you described wasn't warranted, but I'll be honest and say it probably shouldn't bother you as much as it did? The people in this topic are expressing their opinion just as much as you are. Take it easy.

I'm sorry. I know it shouldn't bother my but it does. Does that mean you in particular is discriminating SatAM? Oh, positively not unless you were one of the staff at SoS and ran that event. If anything, there was an extreme lack of SatAM there. I thought SoS was to celebrate anything and everything Sonic? If so, then why the exclusion of SatAM. You can't beat about the bush here. The fact that they didn't play the "Fastest Thing Alive" is suspicious enough while they played all of the other tunes.

Yes, I feel that SoS was intentionally discriminating SatAM simply for its existence. Why else would you avoid playing "The Fastest Thing Alive"? Bentley was that awesome this year? It was a darned bore fest. Then again, I watched the webcam but that doesn't excuse keeping it in a freaking corner of the room unlike 2008 where someone held it and took it around the room!

I know, I shouldn't take it so greatly, but I cannot understand why a good cartoon is trashed by its own fanbase while nonfans and old fans will still enjoy it. Heck, anyone remember NostalgiaCritic's review of SatAM?

Although a SatAM style Sonic game wouldn't sit well, I would like to see a Crisis on Infinite Earths type Sonic game with Sonic traveling through different Sonic Universes. It would be fun to see how Eggman would interact with his SatAM and AOSTH counterparts. I guess you could throw in the OVA universe too I guess.

So someone is aware of the greatest DC Comics stories in history? Cool, still that would be cheap to do it completely like Crisis on Infinite Earths. If anything, they should do it like my story, Suicide Sonic:

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=291484

Yes. I fabricated this from many of the recent announcements from SEGA as well as fabricating a believable steampunk element to it. This is what happened to the true Sonic the Hedgehog. SEGA has has him captive of being someone else to please others. Heck, as it is Slasher, your earlier comment about a non threatening Robotnik shocked me. A SONIC fan requesting this? You want him to be a pushover?

And that's another thing. SEGA's recent move to try to be cuddly was sad. They made this Sonic the Awesome into Sonic the Explorer, despite throwing in your typical average monster. Sonic Unleashed was The Iron Giant, but weak. Everything from character designs to regaining his memory. Then you slap on Wallace and Gromit: Curse of the Were-Rabbit, but instead of making it fast and fun and quirky, you make it slow and unbearable without any thought. Was Sonic Unleashed as good as either movie to you? I'm just wondering.

I had to get this out. This has been building up and I'm tired of SEGA taking us for fools. I want a Sonic game, dangit. And SatAM is more Sonic than Hogwolf, any time of the day.

[Solid SOAP]

Un-Sonicy? What are you opinions on the humans in the new games, eh?

I thought the humans didn't fit at all in pretty much every Sonic game they were in except Unleashed. Their cartoony designs matched that of Robotnik's and they fit in perfectly with the rest of the Sonic-verse, I hope they use those designs from now on.

[Toby]

The furry little rejects of SatAM didn't exactly mesh with Sonic's design either, however.

[Badnik Zero]

^ The Japanese created characters do have a certain flair of design that the early American characters lacked, IMO.

But I don't think they were totally off base. I guess I was never really too into any of the shows except AoStH (that show doesn't really have a plot either), but as far as I'm concerned SatAM is like volume 1 of the Archie series. I guess what I mean is, why do we say SatAM, why not an Archie game. The Archie universe carried on where SatAM left off, and went from being a gag comic with standalone stories to a full on superhero comic with its own mythologies. Archie flat out eclipses SatAM, I think.

Or are there certain things about Archie that SatAM fans aren't really fond of? I think its art and expanded universe have really matured since I first started with that series. Also, Archie would have more success getting a game than a fifteen year old show.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Goldar

[redmenace]

Why would people want a game in that universe however? What's in there that would bring anything new to the franchise, as a whole? Only new characters, which people already cry about every time a new game shows up. I just don't get it.

[Arrow]

When it comes to SatAM hate, I do think that a lot of people are just being ridiculously pro-Japanese.

When really... Really. At least the Western interpretation of Sonic were like, animated. Ya know, as in, they moved? More than a frame an hour? Ya know? Yeah?

I'm so edgy.

-----

I don't like Chris. But I'm not totally against humans either. They are clearly a part of the world in which Sonic lives. But I don't see them as "characters" but more fillers or elements to drive the story, like in SA2. We didn't actually see very much of those working for GUN, but the story was entirely based on them. That was okay. What Sonic '06 did is eugh though. No bestiality in Sonic, please, ever again. Just no.

[Toby]

I don't remember any sex scenes in that game. Sounds hot. Link plz.

[Daisoku]

I don't like Chris. But I'm not totally against humans either. They are clearly a part of the world in which Sonic lives. But I don't see them as "characters" but more fillers or elements to drive the story, like in SA2. We didn't actually see very much of those working for GUN, but the story was entirely based on them. That was okay. What Sonic '06 did is eugh though. No bestiality in Sonic, please, ever again. Just no.

I don't remember any sex scenes in that game. Sounds hot. Link plz.

... Oh no, not the Bestality thing again. We've already been though this, and the topic got locked.

[redmenace]

When it comes to SatAM hate, I do think that a lot of people are just being ridiculously pro-Japanese.

Or maybe it's just a preference and people simply do not like it. It's possible, since not everyone likes the same. Opinions, every one has one.

When really... Really. At least the Western interpretation of Sonic were like, animated. Ya know, as in, they moved? More than a frame an hour? Ya know? Yeah?

I'm grossly exaggerating, because there's always some who go against the tide... but no one complains about AOSTH and everyone complains about Underground. They're both western, so where does this excuse fit exactly? It doesn't. It has nothing to do with being pro-Japanese or any other excuse you might come up with. Some simply dislike SatAM because they think it sucks (there're a lot of reasons, but we're not discussing that).

The faster the SatAM fans deal with it the better. I'm tired of tiptoeing around them, afraid to hurt their feelings, when they go and say these kinds of things as if we're blaspheming the Holy Grail or something when it's expressing an opinion contrarily to theirs.

Edited September 4, 2009 by redmenace

[Miko]

Or maybe it's just a preference and people simply do not like it.

I gotta wonder sometimes. People throwing a bitchfit just because Sonic liked a fucking chilidog in America and not in Japan is over the top.

The Japanese created characters do have a certain flair of design that the early American characters lacked

Let's be honest.

-The female characters are in many cases, already established male characters who simply have a different gender and a different agenda.

Amy is Sonic except instead of chasing adventure she chases after love.

Rouge is Nack except she having to be a stereotypical woman has crushes and rivalries that deal with those crushes.

Cream is a Mary Sue.

Blaze is essentially Knuckles, with some of the perks of having a less isolating past. Both can be hard to socialize with, but in slightly different ways.

Then you have many of the male characters who are still essentially like "characterization, what's that?"

Sonic goes oooon and oooon about the power of friendship or team work, but it's like every friend was like that woman you talked up to get in bed and when she wakes up she's all by herself wondering where the hell you went. Sonic says there's power in friendship, but only seeks his friends out if they...sort of bump into him and with the tagline "long time no see". Which is essentially not even seeking them out. If you find power in teams and friendship, why are you in fact such a loner. This may make for a good story to address but Sonic Team thinks it's perfectly fine and uncontradictory for him to be this way. He seems somewhat pretentious in his preaching about there being power in friendship and complaining to Blaze about the evils of being a loner but he's never being about it. Nor does he seem to have a problem with the men being loners. Which sort of goes against what most people really consider to be very Sonic because Sonic is often perceived as brash, honest, etc. There isn't much in the way of attitude for this character and he doesn't do anything the slightest bit controversial. Well he does but the way he's portrayed in his doing so, is in a way that sort of tries to force the viewers from passing judgement. Sort of in the way a Mary Sue can act like hell spawn and yet the author portrays the scene in a way in which you can feel their teeth ready to sink into your neck if you so much as question how pure their character is. It's like the games are a bit phobic to present him as a flawed character and not surprisingly, many of his fans cry if he's anything besides a boyscout as well. I actually find it funny how people can call SatAM pretentious when Sonic tries way too hard to be cool these days and in addition to this he often contradicts the very theme he often makes for his game.

And what the hell is up with Knuckles. He has a duty...except when he doesn't.

Usually, when I find that I make topics asking people why they like these characters I'm given:

a. No answer.

b. surrounding circumstances which actually don't say anything about how the character interested you. It's like watching a car accident. The incident may seem like an interesting idea or something you've been in (to which you can be entertained by reliving your own experience in a sense) but do you actually know--let alone get entertained by the people? No.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Miko

[Toby]

It's obviously because hedgehogs eat insects and twigs! Not people food! 8D

[Miko]

why weren't these same people crying when Naka said in an interview Sonic liked McDonalds as an obvious shameless plug then

huh?

HUH?

[Toby]

Cuz they're lovin' it.

[redmenace]

I gotta wonder sometimes. People throwing a bitchfit just because Sonic liked a fucking chilidog in America and not in Japan is over the top.

Maybe because they don't like it.

For the rest of the post.

Sonic and Amy, they're alike in many ways, but different in many ways as well. Sure they both strive for adventure and are impulsive, but things stop there. Sonic does what he does because he values freedom and Amy does what she does because she

Edited September 4, 2009 by redmenace

[Badnik Zero]

Why would people want a game in that universe however?

The same reason a lot of fans want a lot of things - nostalgia. It'd be total fan service to make a game like this, I know. Chronicles is the best example of this. Metropolis was closer to an industrial SatAM zone than anything we've seen in a game except maybe Scrap Brain which was a straight up factory. Chronicles actually draws on all Sonic influences, old and new. They did a good job.

What's in there that would bring anything new to the franchise, as a whole? Only new characters, which people already cry about every time a new game shows up. I just don't get it.

Again Chronicles. Bioware brought an idea from the Archieverse into a Sonic game. I love the Dark Legion, they have an awesome story to tell. I haven't read the Archies for years now, but there's gotta be more of that they can use. We've got all these already been tried stories that can be retold and brought to the main games. If they're especially Sonic in flavor, I'd like to see some of those themes and ideas cross over. They were smart by doing it in a subtle way with a game like Chronicles. I'm not saying the entire series should be retconned to include the SatAM-Archieverse, I'm just saying there's some real good stuff in a comic that's been running for sixteen years. The success or fail of Chronicles has nothing to do with it, Sonic games need a good story now and then.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Goldar

[Aquaslash]

I happen to think that if you based a game around the Moebius plotline and used Sonic and Scourge as the playable characters, you couldn't possibly go wrong. It would be all daytime Sonic style stages, all the time. This alone would instantly either shut up all the critics, or prove just how biased they really are.

Actually, come to think of it, such a game would basically be Sonic Rush 3. GOGOGOGOGOGO.

But seriously, the overwhelming majority of you are putting way to much thought into this. I'm seeing all this mandatory slow portions and emphasis on storyline. A comic universe game really, really, REALLY doesn't have to be that way.

No seriously, I want you all to give me one solid reason why a comic themed game couldn't play like Unleashed in style. Just swap the werehog with another character and you're good to go.

I think the real thing is that most people just don't want it. Not because the gameplay wouldn't work, but because they just don't like it.

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

For Christ's sake, what do we really even KNOW about Fang to compare him with Rouge? ;\ I don't think the Sonic & Tails 2 manual was THAT in depth - feel free to correct me, I haven't read it in a damn long while and I don't know where to find it anymore. The only source that actually provided Fang with a discernible personality was Archie comics, which if that is what you guys are basing him off of, then I think there's some people here who need to be called hypocrites. I really love how all of the posts describing him include the word "seem" or "seems" - we don't know JACK about him, another reason why even if it was done in a poor way, SatAM's character development was still superior.

I don't mean to bring American politics into this, but this is basically like preaching Democratic policy to a Republican forum. The general consensus here is that people don't like SatAM, so the OP or anyone supporting a SatAM-themed game should've expected accordingly. No matter what logic you throw at them, they won't submit. Opinions are like asses, everyone's got one. Would any of you have the nerve to start a topic like this at the GHZ?

I don't support a SatAM-themed game only because of the practicality of the idea, or a lack thereof. I love SatAM; it's not my primary continuity choice, but I won't spew hate allover it just because it didn't come from Sonic Team. I grew up with SatAM - hell, when I was young, I was dumb enough to think the games and the SatAM continuity were one in the same (which is EXACTLY what SOA wanted us to believe; they're marketing worked). I thought Mecha Sonic in the Death Egg from Sonic 2 was Uncle Chuck!

But honestly, what has come from Sonic Team as of late is not worthy of universal accolade. At least not in my opinion. In fact, suffice to say I AM SHOCKED AND APPALLED (!!!11!!ONE).

As for AoStH, why compare? Come on, WHY compare? Most people like AoStH more mostly because it's so unbelievably slapstick and humor-based that they can't take it seriously. SatAM tried and for many, succeeded, giving an opportunity for people to form subjective opinions.

A SatAM-based game to me would be a bad idea. It would please only the small amount of SatAM fans left that haven't moved onto just normal furry while alienating new age Sonic fans and raising the brow of old age ones. This goes for an Archie comic game too. It wouldn't sell, there's no MONEY to be made off that. (* Rubs fingers together. *)

Gameplay? Fuck gameplay, the gameplay's no problem. I don't see any reason an Archie/SatAM-based Sonic game can't exhibit mechanics befitting of the namesake character. No matter what continuity, he is a super fast hedgehog that runs through loops. That's not what this topic is about, this topic is obviously about STORY since that is the number one differentiating factor between Sonic Team and Archie/SatAM.

Edited September 4, 2009 by nUcLeArEnVoY

[Toby]

Well, we know that he uses a dorky cork gun and has a Wile E. Coyote complex.

[Aquaslash]

That's not what this topic is about, this topic is obviously about STORY since that is the number one differentiating factor between Sonic Team and Archie/SatAM.

After the mess that was 06, the anti comic continuity crowd is gonna have a HARD time convincing me that a comic based story is gonna be any better than a Sonic Team made one.

[Miko]

Maybe because they don't like it.

Yes but red it's a chilidog. It's not affecting the story, and its not hurting anyone. Why care simply because it's not Japanese? This is where people raise the weeabo card because complaining about things like this is trivial. They don't affect games, the stories or the characters.

Sonic does what he does because he values freedom and Amy does what she does because she

Edited September 4, 2009 by Miko

[redmenace]

The same reason a lot of fans want a lot of things - nostalgia. It'd be total fan service to make a game like this, I know. Chronicles is the best example of this. Metropolis was closer to an industrial SatAM zone than anything we've seen in a game except maybe Scrap Brain which was a straight up factory. Chronicles actually draws on all Sonic influences, old and new. They did a good job.

Again Chronicles. Bioware brought an idea from the Archieverse into a Sonic game. I love the Dark Legion, they have an awesome story to tell. I haven't read the Archies for years now, but there's gotta be more of that they can use. We've got all these already been tried stories that can be retold and brought to the main games. If they're especially Sonic in flavor, I'd like to see some of those themes and ideas cross over. They were smart by doing it in a subtle way with a game like Chronicles. I'm not saying the entire series should be retconned to include the SatAM-Archieverse, I'm just saying there's some real good stuff in a comic that's been running for sixteen years. The success or fail of Chronicles has nothing to do with it, Sonic games need a good story now and then.

Like you said, it's nostalgia, so why bother with the small minority that want a SatAM game when they can catter to the enormous majority that want another classic? They don't bother with the latter, why would they bother with the former (thank the Heavens). This is what I don't get.

I thought Chronicles was one of the worst games the Sonic franchise has, story and charaterization included. It isn't my cup of tea. I'm not saying some of those ideas wouldn't be good however. The fact that Eggman takes over at the end is fantastic. The story overcomplication though, is not needed in a platform game however (Chronicles was an RPG though). I don't think it works, so again I ask, what's there to offer to a Sonic platform game?

I don't think the Sonic & Tails 2 manual was THAT in depth - feel free to correct me.

I was basing it in the fact that he doesn't show any of Rouge's behaviour I listed, not his characterization in Archie comics.

As for AoStH, why compare?

Because someone said the hate for SatAM steems from hate for the western continuity, which is untrue when we see that AOSTH is mostly loved and Underground is mostly hated.

Yes but red it's a chilidog. It's not affecting the story, and its not hurting anyone. Why care simply because it's not Japanese? This is where people raise the weeabo card because complaining about things like this is trivial. They don't affect games, the stories or the characters

I don’t care for example. I think people are just scared that there’s more from where the chilidogs came from, which is a valid fear. If the chilidogs meant that, then I wouldn’t like them either.

I don't agree. Sonic and Amy do it, because it gives them something to do. Although Sonic's value for this kind of lifestyle far exceeds Amy's. In Sonic Adventure she wasn't upset over compassion, she wanted to be part of a group that actually had fun. Sonic, is just a guy that loves adventure. A character who is at this point far too pretentious to genuinely value freedom when he doesn't exactly care to be honest and open himself. Yeeeah his profiles may say he likes or dislikes something, but his behavior in game seems to contradict this.

Well, that too, but we need to see that Sonic majorly does thing because they’re right and she does things because her heart tells her to.

when I said:

except she having to be a stereotypical woman has crushes and rivalries that deal with those crushes.

I probably should've added what you just said on the list. She's flirty but she's a a woman given an exceptional rack and obviously more "sexed up" *coughs* than other girls in the game. Considering she's supposed to be "sexy" and a "woman" there is like Amy a focus on relationships but in a much more flirtatious or sexy way. But I attribute these differences mostly to adding a stereotypically "feminine" touch. That, and I'm not even sure there were any females Nack's age. Yeah Amy was ...8 but that's going to pedo land

Lol. :x Perhaps you’re right, but they’re still different for those reasons. Again, Nack wasn’t established either. They could’ve gotten her to substitute him since there was so many males on the franchise already.

Amy is more reluctant and less assertive when getting her friends to notice her feelings during an adventure compared to Sonic, whose opinions often dominate the adventure. If Sonic and the rest of the guys leave Amy behind and ignore her, she's generally not doing much about confronting them later or ever. Flip the scenario to romance and she's far more aggressive about it. Sonic may be a talented hero and all, but that's really exploring his expertice physically when I'm talking about characterization. The same goes for Nack liking guns and Rouge kicking. These are differences that aren't all that important given what's being evaluated.

If you say so. I still think it’s different enough.

Rouge was working with good guys from the start with an incentive for jewels and riches, something Nack was never given by the government.

They’re different. Who knows if Nack would have accepted such an offer or if Rouge didn’t sign up because it’s the right thing to do as well?

Rouge wasn't initially the type herself. Fang hasn't had the oppourtunity to really branch out in terms of friendships, but when we're looking at the template he would've branched from it's pretty much the same as Rouge. She betrayed her comrades (and eventual friend, Shadow) in the very first game and was really only thinking about herself. Granted she did give Knuckles his emerald shards back, but she has a crush on him and he did save her life. I doubt we'd ever get to see Fang having passionate feelings for Knuckles. I'll be fair though. Some characters are good in the sense they revise and restore a concept that was flavored very badly by things that are now highly associated with the characters. I'm just not sure if that something Amy (and maybe Rouge) do.

She was. She cares about Shadow halfway through SA2. You don’t know if Fang would. Rouge was also doing her job, both in betraying and giving the shards back, something she believes its right (otherwise why not desert?). I still think it’s different. Fang was never shown doing any of this, so the conclusion is, they’re different. You can’t assume they’re alike from assumptions.

I don’t think Amy restored anything. Rouge on the other hand, I think it’s justified but she’s also irrelevant to newer games, which is a pity.

1. I may not like certain colors as much as others but I don't throw a big fit for example simply because I see it in a way that doesn't even affect my life, or a game.

2. You're not born liking certain colors so there's ultimately a reason you prefer some over others

1. You’re in a forum. Your opinion might be more passionate or less, whatever the reasons.

2. I have no idea why I prefer orange to yellow, though I know why I prefer blue to red. Sometimes there isn't a reason, or if there is, we don't know it or we haven't thought about it much either.

Edited September 4, 2009 by redmenace

[Badnik Zero]

Like you said, it's nostalgia, so why bother with the small minority that want a SatAM game when they can cater to the enormous majority that want another classic? They don't bother with the latter, why would they bother with the former (thank the Heavens). This is what I don't get.

Well, I was kind of playing devil's advocate there. I don't think there should be an actual SatAM game, but I don't feel like fan service is a bad thing, no matter where it comes from. It'd be nice for the series to acknowledge its past.

I'm glad for the recent chili dog appearaces in games and mentions of roboticization. It connects what we had before to what we have now. I don't think the expanded universe should be entirely neglected like it's the shame of the series.

I don't think it works, so again I ask, what's there to offer to a Sonic platform game?

I'm big on Bioware, so I was happy to see that kind of game in a Sonic context. Chronicles was very hit-or-miss, and I guess I'm just the other side of the coin. But the game doesn't need to be a platformer. It was good of them to get experimental with a spin-off first. SatAM elements and other stuff like Gizoids were included in there, and Gizoids are very much spin-off material. I don't think SatAM has much to offer the platformer genre in particular, because the games have always been more action oriented than the show or comic was. But I agree with everyone who said the games could take some lessons in storytelling. Why not grab a favorite story arc out of the pages of Archie? For some characters Sega borrowed from mangas, look at Charmy and Amy Rose herself.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Ezra the Badnik

[Aquaslash]

She was. She cares about Shadow halfway through SA2. You don