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Mountaindewandsprite

Has "Solo Sonic" been detrimental to the series?

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33 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

And all that characterisation is ruined by him acting in the moment and getting most of his troops KILLED. 

Was Operation Big Wave a bit boneheaded? Maybe.

But it's not like it was a matter him being stupid. The whole point of the plan was that with Eggman's forces spread across the globe and Infinite off doing...whatever it was he was doing at that point in the story, Metropolis was unprotected and thus the Resistance could easily rush in while it's defenseless and swiftly conquer it. It was Infinite unexpectedly showing up partway through and activating the Phantom Ruby that ruined the entire plan within minutes, costing the Resistance many of it's troops.

Also, Amy was there to call him on some of his more careless thoughts and redirect them, sooo....

33 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

 

And he may have "led" the Resistance, but they all have the ability to encourage each other, so I don't see what gives him more qualifications than the rest. And the others are also brave.

That's my point: he was the Commander, the guy heading platoons into battle, rather than the guy coordinating the whole operation, which was more Amy's job.

He likely got the role because he stepped up and no one really complained, either respecting his decision or not really wanting the position themselves.

33 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

 

Like I said, Forces was a step in the right direction, but the execution could've been better. Maybe if we had more than talking head emoticons to better develop the cast. But it's good to see him outside his comfort zone given he originally was a loner and never had such a responsibility before.

Though, I feel Amy being the co-leader or second-in-command is actually the most faithful and befitting. 

 

On that, I agree.

Though honestly, Amy's portrayal bothered more than Knuckles once the game actually came out. Not because of her apparently being the co-leader, (which also makes some sense character wise), but rather the game initially making her seem like mission control(as in the one running the technological systems).

33 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

 

Hm, I think I remember seeing DK had some knowledge in mechanics before, but was it just from the Olympics? That's a weird thing to state for a character from a spin-off, so maybe there's actual precedence, in which case, woops.

I honestly wouldn't know. Even as someone who was previously a frequent consultant of the Mario wiki almost as much as the Archie Sonic one, Donkey Kong is a character I didn't really understand or research as well as the others.

His Coconut Gun can fire in spurts, though. 

 

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Abso-fucking-lutely.  This bullshit was already causing problems with the ridiculous direction they took with Sonic The Hedgehog 4, claiming they were improving and going back to their roots by boasting about how they were getting rid of everyone but Sonic, and the game ended up being crap due to unfinished physics.  The awful thing is that even when they added Tails back into the second episode and fixed the physics, the damage was already done and we never got a third episode (not counting Metal).  It's only come to look more and more pathetic as Sonic Team floundered to fill in the gaps they vacated with a bunch of other stuff, like Werehog, the Wisps, Classic Sonic (though I like him), and finally the OC.  It's absolutely disgraceful they put the OC in before re-adding Tails and Knuckles.

 

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On 2/22/2019 at 1:23 AM, Foxthefox1000 said:

Lol well which characters did you research, then? I'd be interested to hear some more lore with Mario.

Different ones, namely Waluigi, Tatanga, Daisy, Popple, Syrup,  those types.

7 minutes ago, Tornado said:

I don't really care beyond noting this, but I keep reading this thread as "Han Solo Sonic has been detrimental to the series?"

You're the second one then.

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Yes. Years of Solo Sonic made fans hyped for Rise of Lyric for the very simple reason of other characters returning. When Rise of Lyric came and proved an atrocity, it just stung even more. Solo Sonic made people boycott Sonic 4 Episode 2, making sure the plot points there were sunk and perhaps prolonging Solo Sonic. Sega have since realized the characters can be used as a quick source of hype and profit (Episode Shadow), and Mania's success may be in part due to the other characters being handled very well.

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No and Yes. No because at the time, it was needed. After 06's 12 or more gameplay styles/characters, the trim was necessary. Keeping things simple was good. They could focus on building levels for Sonic, and not have worry about balancing them for other characters. Though I also say yes because they then went too far and we got Messiah Sonic. 

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3 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Solo Sonic made people boycott Sonic 4, making sure the plot points there were sunk and perhaps prolonging Solo Sonic.

The Sonic 4 boycott wasn't because of Solo Sonic, it was because Retro (rightly, in hindsight) thought the game looked like utter shit. That's why the boycott involved buying Sonic 1 (another Solo Sonic game) instead - not because of the Solo Sonic nature of 4, but because 4 was a horrible take on Classic Sonic. 

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1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

The Sonic 4 boycott wasn't because of Solo Sonic, it was because Retro (rightly, in hindsight) thought the game looked like utter shit. That's why the boycott involved buying Sonic 1 (another Solo Sonic game) instead - not because of the Solo Sonic nature of 4, but because 4 was a horrible take on Classic Sonic. 

I was actually discussing the SEGA Forum boycott of Sonic 4 Episode 2, which I regret to have participated in, over the lack of a fully-playable Tails.

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On 2/21/2019 at 9:49 PM, Foxthefox1000 said:

Yeah, but that's funny because him being gullible was always a personality trait. Though I guess, yeah, he's not much of an idiot nowadays. He just makes sone stupid decisions now and then which was always a part of his character. I get it now.

The problem with characters like Knuckles is a little something called flanderization. They took that one flaw and basically over exaggerated it to the point where it became his defining character trait. Eggman fooling Knuckles once or twice is okay and good for a quick joke, but multiple times? At that point you're just trying to make the character a butt-monkey. Then you have characters like Cream saying he isn't very bright. Also, I disagree that Knuckles was always meant to be the "butt of all jokes". 

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20 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

No he wasn't. He was still tricked by Eggman...

Eggman even managed to break the Master Emerald when Knuckles was right next to it.

He means in the sense that Knuckles's overall portrayal and treatment from the other characters wasn't done in a way that singled him out as a dolt overall.

Getting tricked by Eggman alone, especially when he doubted it until he thought he saw tangental evidence, isn't incompetence.

 

But then, I suppose you're basically proving Mount's point in a way.

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19 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

SA1 comes to mind. He was competent in that game. 

Was he, though? As Static said, he let the Master Emerald get broken and he got tricked by Eggman again, resulting in another pointless fight with Sonic. He even got his ass kicked by Chaos 0, who, according to recent discourse, is so weak that only dumb cowardly babies would be afraid of him.

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Knuckles has things that he's good at but a large part of his screentime is to be a comedic foil to Sonic's relative competency. Sonic stays sharp and keeps his cool while Knuckles is easily tricked and tends to lose his temper. This is pretty much how their dynamic goes whenever they're together from Sonic 3 onward. 

He's not literally a butt monkey but I don't think the games ever go that far with it, even the Modern ones. Lost World only really uses him for a joke but it's not at the expense of his intelligence like usual. 

Later games like Heroes, Zero Gravity and Forces are better about giving him things to do besides screw up than the early ones but it always comes with the ever constant question of "Where's the Master Emerald???" Ignoring it all the time makes him look a tad incompetent to a lot of people but I don't think that big of a deal personally.

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By using the tricked by Eggman logic, I can easily say Shadow is incompetent because he was tricked by Black Doom.

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

 He even got his ass kicked by Chaos 0, who, according to recent discourse, is so weak that only dumb cowardly babies would be afraid of him.

Yet, he beats Chaos 6.

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2 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

By using the tricked by Eggman logic, I can easily say Shadow is incompetent because he was tricked by Black Doom.

Well he certainly was pretty dumb in trusting him, but that's a singular contrivance for one game's story, not a recurring pattern of stupidity like Knuckles has.

2 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Yet, he beats Chaos 6.

Amazingly enough this does not somehow invalidate him getting his ass kicked the first time.

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6 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

I can easily say Shadow is incompetent because he was tricked by Black Doom.

The stupidity is the logic Shadow used for trusting him in the 1st place.

"This random alien that's invading the planet told me he knows about my past, I'd better trust him instead of asking literally any other character I've interacted with last game!"

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Even then, Tails is only competent with Sonic around to save his ass from literally anything attacking him; his primary focus nowadays is the cliché "smart, but physically weak to a fault" role as he's just there to help out with his gadgets.

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12 hours ago, StaticMania said:

 

Eggman even managed to break the Master Emerald when Knuckles was right next to it.

 

11 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Was he, though? As Static said, he let the Master Emerald get broken and he got tricked by Eggman again, resulting in another pointless fight with Sonic. He even got his ass kicked by Chaos 0, who, according to recent discourse, is so weak that only dumb cowardly babies would be afraid of him.

So here's an age old question that's relevant: How did Eggman break the Master Emerald there?

11 hours ago, Diogenes said:

He even got his ass kicked by Chaos 0, who, according to recent discourse, is so weak that only dumb cowardly babies would be afraid of him.

1. You should know half of those people aren't really the types you wanna listen to as reliable sources.

2. You know that the basis of those complaints is the fact that Tails took on Chaos 4 in the past. Alongside Sonic and Knuckles, yes, but their hangup is he was previously able to confront a stronger form with little complaint.

9 hours ago, Diogenes said:

 

Amazingly enough this does not somehow invalidate him getting his ass kicked the first time.

Perhaps. But it does show a considerable improvement in his ability to handle him: From getting dropped on at base form after being woken up to nearly obliterating an immortal creature at near peak power.

It's like narrative payoff and character development or something.

4 hours ago, Rowl said:

Every Sonic character seems to be kinda incompetent in this series with the exception of Tails and Eggman. 

Define incompetent.

Because honestly, not even them.

 

 

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