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Has "Solo Sonic" been detrimental to the series?


Mountaindewandsprite

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22 hours ago, Wraith said:

I like Shadow and always thought this mindset was dumb. Let him be silly

Why? He was created to be the embodiment of serious buisness since his debut. Every time someone(like Ian) puts intentional silliness with Shadow in a comical sense makes me die a little inside. Shadow was meant and should stay the most intimidating and less quirky thing in this series as it makes him stand out the most besides being Sonics equal.

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19 hours ago, Wraith said:

Taking Shadow out of the context he's normally viewed in is not only creative and amusing but can add nuance to the character.

Taking shadow out of context as a regular and serious character flaw, makes him a flanderized or a product of caricature for cheap laughs, it's not creative it's demeaning. It's like making fun of Sonics coolness as a lame parody of the 90s and not really staying true to the true essence of his trait that made him popular and a serious character to stand out from Mario and other cartoon characters that are near bland and generic Mickey mouse templates.

Anyways, shadow having humor shouldn't be bad, he's also snarky and a wise ass to opponents as a condescending badass. But he's not a joke like Knuckles or even Metal, he doesn't have any aspects about him that would be fun to joke about since he wasn't a character that could be viewed as humorous in his debut and he's not a light character period. Just like gamma in the first sonic adventure.

19 hours ago, Wraith said:

Characters need to be multifaceted or else they're just bland. I like Shadow but I don't just like him for the cool serious power fantasy stuff. 

Or some just need to adapt the humor while staying true to character(the one that's not a angsty Sasuke cliche), the comics/side games made him and his character an angry angsty goth with no real social skills which Sonic and rouge made fun of every time they got without understanding that Shadow is more than a scowl and a moody asshole(he more pridefully snarky, and had competitive side to him on observing others in the games), since archie this was Ian's attempt at humanizing Shadow as a Knuckles or Vegeta type rival, when in the games Shadows character despite being the forefront of segas edge phase was actually a character driven by his own self worth and motivated by the act of tragedy than from it. Shadow wasn't just a angsty loner who didn't know how to have fun or smile, he was just a serious and composed guy who looked at the world from a realist pov, and was just as cocky, smug, snarky and self independent as Sonic. Other media fails to capture Shadow as a guy who's probably the most dignified and ruthless character in the series.

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I don't know if this is the most appropriate thread for this, if not then sorry...

Anyway, here there are some of my concepts for some playable characters in a 2D classic-esque gameplay. I often make those concepts, though I always revisit them with new moves and stuff, so they are always different, have fun. P.S.: I made up some of the names

  • Sonic

He plays like in Sonic Mania; his special ability is that he gets some additional special moves from elemental shields, something that nobody else does; he can also transform into Super Sonic, but this time it works a bit differently.

Moves: [Drop Dash] [Spin Dash] [Fire Dash - Fire Shield] [Bubble Bounce - Water Shield] [Spark Jump - Electric Shield] [Super Sonic]

Spoiler

Sonic is the only exception among the characters: he needs a second button in order to activate the super form, and he has a super form at all. This time you can transform into Super Sonic even if you don't have 50 rings, though it's at your own risk, because as you know, it will drain your rings and leave you with 0. The ring drain is different too: it's not 1 ring per second, they drain with increasing speed depending on the amount you have. When you have 50 rings, a ring will grant you 1 second of super form (50 is the cap, anything above that is still 1 second); as you have less rings, the time frame for each ring will be shorter, and the last ones will drain very fast (last ring will grant 1/5 of second of super form). Basically, you can access the super form a lot more often, but it's way shorter and you can't finish a whole level with it (unless you manage to stay above 50 rings all the time); it makes you invincible for a short amount of time, so you can use this to dodge some attacks; be aware that you will remain with zero rings after using the super form, so while getting 50 rings is no longer required, it's still suggested. Super Sonic is only accessible after collecting all the Chaos Emeralds, it's in fact an endgame bonus.

  • Tails

He's updated with a new gameplay... that's not completely new. He plays similar to Sonic Advance 2's gameplay, with the difference that the Boost Mode is now called Propeller Mode.

Moves: [Fly] [Propeller Mode] [Air Tricks] [Spin Dash]

Spoiler

Tails' basic gameplay is similar to Sonic's (minus the elemental shield moves and the super form), but there are some additional elements: let's start from the Propeller Mode. Since the classics, Tails always had a different animation when he reached the top speed: he stops running and starts floating near the ground by using his tails; this time, I decided to bring back the Boost Mode mechanics from the Advance series to enhance that feel even more. When Tails reaches a certain speed, he will get a small boost with a flashing visual effect with after image, like in Advance 2; he will use the tails to float as always. Like in Advance 2, Tails can reach the Propeller Mode faster the more rings he has. By pressing jump twice, you can start flying, and while flying, the tails will damage the enemies (though the rest of the body is still vulnerable). Once you start flying you can't stop until you land, though this time you can hold down to drop gradually faster up to regular gravity speed (even when tired). Tapping multiple times is no longer required, you can use the analog/directional input to move him freely, and it's a bit faster than usual to control (though he will be tired in a shorter time). When you move him left and right, he will tilt a bit like an helicopter, moving the hitbox of the tails as well. He also gets the air tricks from Sonic Advance 2, only after hitting a spring. This is in order to give him air mobility even jumping out of a spring, since usually you would jump uncurled and it would prevent you from flying. I really wanted to give emphasis on the use of the tails as a propeller and the air mobility, without sacrifying the flow.

  • Amy

As much as I liked Amy's gameplay in Sonic Advance 1, I admit that it was a bit too much hardcore and her moveset was a bit too complex, so much that it was probably more suited for a Kirby game than Sonic. So I decided to simplify her a bit, still keeping her main traits.

Moves: [Hammer Spin] [Acrobatic Jump] [Super Peel-Out]

Spoiler

Amy can roll like everyone else, but she can't spin-dash. She has the Super Peel-Out instead... this time she has got the original one, with the figure 8 feet animation as well. The Super Peel-Out is actived by down+jump like the spin dash, since it replaces said move. Why I decided to give her this move? For 2 reasons: Because in Sonic Advance 2 she had a very similar move, and because she was introduced in Sonic CD and that move fits her since it was introduced in her debut game; also because the move involves the character being uncurled, something that references the fact that she was unable to roll in Advance 1. There is a new element though: when Amy reaches the top speed, she will show the hammer while running. Just press down and instead of rolling, you will perform an Acrobatic Jump, that's the move that was performed by pressing down + attack in Advance 1. Performing a Super Peel-Out will put you at max speed, so you can combine the peel-out with the acrobatic jump very easily without need to build momentum. The thing is: she can't start a roll at high speed (unless you hold down during a landing), so you have to be careful. The Hammer Spin works similar to the Insta-Shield, but the difference is that she will uncurl after performing it, and the hitbox is way bigger. If you hit a spring while performing an Hammer Spin, you will gain a lot of extra height from bouncing on it, just like in Advance 1 (hitting a spring during an Hammer Spin also features a special animation). She is unaffected by the amount of rings.

  • Cream

I have already covered this character in a different thread, but anyway... She is different than her Advance series incarnation, and Cheese is no longer a bullet. Because of the chao gimmick and some new moves, she's a bit complex to explain, but still simple to play.

Moves: [Ear Flap] [Drop] [Bunny Boost] [Pet] [Stun - passive]

Spoiler

 

She no longer flies like Tails: her fly is now a multi jump with a glide after each jump. She jumps curled, and when you activate the Ear Flap, she will uncurl and do a second jump. At the end of this jump, Cheese will hold her and make her float a bit, with increasing gravity; if you perform another Ear Flap, the same thing will happen: you can do up to 5 jumps, then Cream will be tired and will slowly fall down held by Cheese. After each jump, you can detach from Cheese at will, just press down and you will perform a Drop. Drop works just like in Sonic Advance 2, Cream bounces with her feet on a badnik, gaining back the height from where she fell (she is vulnerable except for her feet). After bouncing, you can press left or right to control her mid-air: she will spin like dancing (that animation from Advance 2's forward trick), and becomes slighty more floaty than regular gravity. You can bounce on another enemy in this state, and repeat until you can. It's basically like bouncing on enemies in a Mario game, just with Sonic's physics instead. While "dancing" mid-air, you can activate a new Ear Flap, and the count will reset each time you bounce on an enemy (or land). If Cream is tired, she can't detach from Cheese, but like Tails, you can still make her fall faster by holding down.

Cream can't spin-dash; she has a bunny hop similar to Amy's in Advance 1. The difference is that the bunny hop will give her a slighty better boost, and leave a colored trail behind, like in the mobile game where this move comes from (Sonic Forces Speed Battle). When the trail is on screen, you can't roll, but you can still press down+jump to chain a new hop... the boost it gives to Cream is cumulative, so you can chain several hops to gain a great amount of speed; remember that you are vulnerable though. That's the Bunny Boost, and it's the main way to gain speed with this character along with rolling. The colored trail will last longer the more hops you chain, but holding the opposite direction to brake will make it disappear almost instantly (so you can break a bit then roll if you need to). Juping will preserve the trail unless you perform a multiple jump. You can activate a Bunny Boost even while rolling (just be aware that you will uncurl); though it has a limit, after a certain speed it won't give you any additional boost. The Bunny Boost will decrease the effect of the slopes allowing Cream to climb them more easily.

"Pet" is performed by standing in place and holding up. Other than moving the camera up, Cream will grab Cheese who, with an heart floating above his head, will show his stats (along with an icon of himself) to the player through a small interface panel. In fact, when you defeat a badnik, the animal that comes out from it will fly in a green bubble like in Sonic Adventure, and will reach Cheese, giving him additional stats like in the Chao Garden (also giving animal features to Cheese, that you can see in the icon). There are 3 main stats: Strenght, Reach and Stamina. Strenght will help Cheese to hold Cream more easily, allowing her to float more after each jump. Reach will increase the distance he can travel to, and Stamina will increase the amount of time he can stun an enemy for. When you idle close to a badnik, Cheese will automatically reach it and stun it. That's a passive skill and it doesn't damage the badnik, it only stuns it for a limited amount of time. If Cheese is tired and you still idle near a badnik, he will react being annoyed and won't hit it. Back on Cheese's stats, you can raise them by saving animals, but they also increase slowly by collecting rings, and decrease (heavily) by getting damage.

 

  • Rouge

Rouge instead is a simpler character. She gets that kick melee move from the Advance series, formerly performed by Sonic. Her gameplay is a bit more combat-oriented, but still simple to play.

Moves: [Bat Fly] [Stomp] [Kick] [Air Dash]

Spoiler

Rouge can roll, but she can't spin-dash. The Spin-dash is replaced by that kick move I mentioned before. You can use it to dodge hazards, to climb hard slopes, to roll out of edges, to fastly move into an horizontal spring on landing, and obviously to defeat enemies without moving too far. Since she can't gain speed from this move, she has the Air Dash to compensate. The Air Dash works exactly how it worked for Sonic in the Advance series (Advance 2 to be more precise), with the difference that instead of double tapping a direction, you activate it by pressing forward while performing a double jump. You will obviously uncurl and become vulnerable, but you gain some speed, or in alternative you can perform it backward to brake (it is possible to chain multiple Air Dash to gain more speed, you just have to know that you can't do more than 1 Air Dash per jump, and after a certain speed it won't give you any additional boost). If you double jump without holding a direction, she will activate the Bat Fly instead: it's a multi-jump like Cream's, though it's faster, heavier and you can perform it infinitely, it's just that as you consume stamina, each jump will become less powerful until you will slowly lose height. During a Bat Fly, you can hold down to Stomp: Rouge will fall down in a kicking pose, destroying the badniks below and without bouncing, going through them instead. Stomp works similar to Hammer Drop of Mighty, but less powerful; though, if you keep holding down while landing on a slope, Rouge will switch to rolling form and gain a lot of additional influence from the inclination of the terrain; you can use this to gain a lot of speed if you do it on a quarter slope. Like Amy, she also is unaffected by the amount of rings collected.

 

That's all for now, maybe I'll do other characters later if I will come out with some more ideas.

I'm still not sure how to improve knuckles though... the only suggestion I have so far is to make him roll if landing during a glide... maybe implement digging somehow?

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  • 4 months later...

solo sonic is best. it's how it all started. he should be the focus of everything. over the years he got lost among an ever expanding cast of imitators, which diminished his uniqueness. I think it's best if the story is kept light and to a minimum. I just want to run around, roll, and jump in pretty and interesting environments  :) I don't even care for boss fights or chaos emeralds! though I appreciate (optional) bonus stages to break up the format and add variety...

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I wouldn't him being the sole playable character is a problem so much as the trend and over reliance on the games being that among few other things is. 

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I think Sonic Mania successfully killed Sola Sonica for the 2D sector. That game eventually had five playable characters and left fans wanting more, not fewer. I can't imagine SEGA releasing another 2D game in the next decade with ONLY Sonic playable.

Good luck to the 3D games.

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Solo Sonic is probably the best thing that ever happened to the 3D games.

Also BaronGrackle, I'm pretty sure you invented the term Sola Sonic?

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4 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Solo Sonic is probably the best thing that ever happened to the 3D games.

Also BaronGrackle, I'm pretty sure you invented the term Sola Sonic?

Yes, born from the fury against the Sonic 4 Character Countdown! Though it's fine that people prefer the word "solo" nowadays. :)

The 3D games have a very different history with multiple playable characters. But I think multiple characters have worked better in 2D than the 3D titles because:

1) They have playstyles similar to Sonic. (Unlike the Adventure games).

2) They aren't required to unlock the "final story". (Unlike Heroes).

3) They don't overshadow Sonic as the main character. (Unlike Sonic 06).

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23 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Okay, I was getting ready to say--ehat is Solar Sonica and where did that come from? 

Sonic Alone as the only playable character. It was a major trend after Sonic '06.

It was never wanted or needed for the 2D Sonic games. That's one of the many things SEGA didn't understand, back when Sonic 4 was being made and marketed.

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1 minute ago, BaronGrackle said:

Sonic Alone as the only playable character. It was a major trend after Sonic '06.

It was never wanted or needed for the 2D Sonic games. That's one of the many things SEGA didn't understand, back when Sonic 4 was being made and marketed.

I mean the coin of phrase itself.

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2 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

I think Sonic Mania successfully killed Sola Sonica for the 2D sector. That game eventually had five playable characters and left fans wanting more, not fewer. I can't imagine SEGA releasing another 2D game in the next decade with ONLY Sonic playable.

Good luck to the 3D games.

The only 2D game that had Sonic Solo since the 90's was Sonic 4, and that was because of SEGA's overreaction to Sonic 06's Criticism

 

I do agree with you that the count down back then  was basically a spit on the face of anyone who likes non Sonic Characters , especially Tails and Knuckles who are Pillars of the genesis era and had every right to be in what was marketed as a sequel to S3&K

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I mean the coin of phrase itself.

I named it after "sola scriptura", a Protestant Christian theology meaning "scripture alone". I'm not surprised that people find "solo sonic" more intuitive to say. 

This would've been when the Project Needlemouse Character Countdown had circulated, leading up to Sonic 4. It was all on the official SEGA forums, before they were shut down and erased.

(Someone else started saying "duo sonica" for times when Sonic was still the only playable character but had different playstyles anyway... like the werehog in Unleashed, the multicolored Sonic bots in Colors, or the two Sonics in Generations!)

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4 hours ago, Plasme said:

Solo Sonic is probably the best thing that ever happened to the 3D games.

Also BaronGrackle, I'm pretty sure you invented the term Sola Sonic?

Too bad the “3D games” are filled with at least 60% 2D sections so that statement is already a fucking lie. And even then it’s still a bore fest where we keep going back to the roots that have lost it’s nostalgic appeal its attempts have become apathetic, Eggman lost his antagonist credibility and everyone else’s independence has went down the drain on for the sole reason of putting Sonic on a higher pedestal because apparently the title character can only have importance if everyone around is are reduced to incapable yes men kissing his ass 24/7.

I don’t care what IGN, Game Grumps or anyone else says: the “3D” games got worse since Colors, Solo Sonic is the worst thing that’s happen to the series and I want to play as other characters in an actual 3D game (I’d be ok with a full 2D game as long as they don’t heavily rely on classic pandering, give me a new experience) because Sonic by himself is so fucking boring to me.

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2 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

Too bad the “3D games” are filled with at least 60% 2D sections so that statement is already a fucking lie. And even then it’s still a bore fest where we keep going back to the roots that have lost it’s nostalgic appeal its attempts have become apathetic, Eggman lost his antagonist credibility and everyone else’s independence has went down the drain on for the sole reason of putting Sonic on a higher pedestal because apparently the title character can only have importance if everyone around is are reduced to incapable yes men kissing his ass 24/7.

I don’t care what IGN, Game Grumps or anyone else says: the “3D” games got worse since Colors, Solo Sonic is the worst thing that’s happen to the series and I want to play as other characters in an actual 3D game (I’d be ok with a full 2D game as long as they don’t heavily rely on classic pandering, give me a new experience) because Sonic by himself is so fucking boring to me.

And even then having other characters be important/playable isn’t a guarantee of quality (such as Forces).

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9 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

And even then having other characters be important/playable isn’t a guarantee of quality (such as Forces).

I can say the same about their exclusion( such as Sonic 4 and Sonic 1 GBA port)

But how much did the other characters had an impact in Generations 2? From what I’ve seen it wasn’t much of an improvement from the 2011 predecessor.

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24 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

I can say the same about their exclusion( such as Sonic 4 and Sonic 1 GBA port)

But how much did the other characters had an impact in Generations 2? From what I’ve seen it wasn’t much of an improvement from the 2011 predecessor.

Okay, I know you guys can seem fickle/skewed sometimes, but Sonic 1 GBA was that way for a reason.

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1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Okay, I know you guys can seem fickle/skewed sometimes, but Sonic 1 GBA was that way for a reason.

Which would be what exactly?

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Team Dark could have a spinoff series about them, same with Knuckles and Tails and Amy and Blaze , maybe Silver if they polish his gameplay 

At least with Mario if you are a Luigi fan you have the Mansions and RPG games and him being playable in at least half of the  Main Games, if you are a Wario or Yoshi fan you get a spinoff game every once in a while , Waluigi and Daisy fans get the short end of the stick but that's for another topic 

 

and the 2005 Shadow Game isn't an excuse to why spinoffs shouldn't happen as that game was based on a terrible foundation where they listened to the Kids who wanted Sonic to use a gun , Shadow is faster than any vehicle and his chaos powers are cooler than any gun , the game should have never tried to turn him into a GTA character

 

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29 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

I can say the same about their exclusion( such as Sonic 4 and Sonic 1 GBA port)

But how much did the other characters had an impact in Generations 2? From what I’ve seen it wasn’t much of an improvement from the 2011 predecessor.

Shadow was playable, Knuckles commanded the resistance. 

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2 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Shadow was playable.

Yes the true savior of Generations 2: Shadow’s gameplay campaign that felt like a last minute add on and took less time to run through than a Sonic X episode even without ads and opening/ending credits.

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10 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

Which would be what exactly?

Because Sonic the Hedgehog only featured Sonic and Eggman from the literal beginning.

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2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Because Sonic the Hedgehog only featured Sonic and Eggman from the literal beginning.

And yet despite being a straight to the point port, people claimed it had gameplay issues that the original genesis version didn’t had prior.

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6 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

And yet despite being a straight to the point port people claimed it had gameplay issues that the original genesis version didn’t had prior.

Oh, did you not play Sonic Genesis? 

 

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