Eggman's Danger and Lethal Force

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

How is it insulting? Shadow for all purposes was classed as a villain until Sonic Adventure 2's endgame. I don't understand why on Earth you're dragging in a ton of real-world conversation of dictators, right wingers, or whatever else about this over the top series about a cartoon hedgehog fighting a fat balding man, because frankly, it doesn't fit, and it's a downright strawman to justify why we can't compare Shadow's actions to Eggman's actions.

Because despite it being that, the stories you tell relate to and are based on real things. And in this moment sonic is being a bad faith both sides argue-er for a dictator my guy. And he is a villian, he's being manipulated, when that stops... he stops.

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

But going onto your point. No, because despite his memory being bad,

There is no despite, shadow's actions were planed and manipulated by Gerald Robotnik, and this isn't some side story thing, its so prominent it shows up ins shadows game and shadow apologizes to shadow , for it. Along with that the entire basis of shadow's game is him not being manipulated by black doom, and later in 06 its mephilies. Its almost as if people trying to manipulate shadow to do bad shit and him fighting against it is actually a key part of his characterization.

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Eggman's actions, especially in the likes of Forces wouldn't suddenly become justifiable if a twist revealed that he was mis-remembering his grandfather's wishes and believed that's what Gerald Robotnik wanted, nor should Shadow's own actions be justified because of what motivated him to do it. Because despite the tragic downfall of Maria, and Shadow's own redemption - what Shadow wanted to do was cold, hard, brutal murder against untold millions based on what he believed was a selfish and horrifying last request. 

Actually, if eggmans entire life did turn out to be someone literally editing his memories for him to think a certain way , yes he would in fact kind of be an innocent thral. He did bad shit, but you can't really blame him.  So yeah, shadow wouldn't have done that stuff without gerald. That's it.

 

You are comparing the red skull to the winter soilder. A dictator vs some guy who got his brain screwed with. Not the same thing dude.

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Eggman's current actions in IDW have been caused by Starline brainwashing him back to his original persona while Eggman was content and very strictly stuck in his Tinkerer persona. Using that line of logic that you're now trying to justify for Shadow, you could use the exact same thing to defend Eggman right now. That Starline took a sick man with a bad memory, manipulated and forcefully altered said memory, and made him into a insane madman once more.

No , because eggman being an asshole is something he chose. Tinker is an accident. Eggman's normal state is murderous dictator. Funny murderous dictator, but murderous dictator. He actively chose this, like shadow actively chose to not be evil as soon as he had his memories in working order.

So no, you can't say the same thing. Starline isn't making him someone he's not, that was tinker. He was just bringing eggman back to homeostasis. Shadow thought he could go back, and at the end he was right.

 

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

And I'm fully aware we're taking this to a ridiculous degree, that we're taking the actions of edgy characters in an over the top action series to a completely silly standard of realism, but that's an inherit problem with this topic's core in the first place.

 

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

You can't take Eggman's actions into some kind of horrifically realistic vacuum whilst pretending Shadow's actions are A-OK because by the standards of the Sonic series and it's cartooniness, that's not as bad as it seems.

Shadow wants to kill a murderous dictator that has killed a bunch of people and taken over the world.  These premsises are not inherent in the world, these were broght up and approved by sega, so shadows willingness to do so is already somewhat A-OK by the people in charge. The only reason it was denied was because sonic thought it was cruel that he didn't have his memories , and I agree. But in a broader cortex, he's just being pragmantic.

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

If you want to use the same ploys used against Eggman right now to make him seem like a complete and total monster that desires killing, despite the fact many others in this topic like @Wraith and @Strickerx5 have pointed out that this is par for the course for children's media, and many others have gone farther with this kind of thing, then you have to accept that the exact same reasonings and standings will be used to determine the other characters' actions.

And a character in those fiction could problably make a genuine argument why they should die. Along with that media forgiving people who have done wild shit is actually a problem and often a criticism. For example there are a bunch of people who aren't fond of Frieza being alive right now.

So " what about these other guys " isn't an argument

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

In which case, my original argument still stands completely - why should Shadow be getting a free pass for his actions despite his actions being arguably worse than Eggman's?

Because he was being manipulated, and when he stopped being manipulated he literally almost gave his life to protect the entire planet. Its almost as if he's a good person at his core, and he was being manipulated. And its almost as if eggman has made choices through out his entire life to be a murderous dictator.

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

The only difference is Shadow had just enough time

1) the realizing was him gaining back his correct memories.

2) Shadow did that in like what... a couple days. How long has eggman been at this. That makes your point look worse. Shadow is a guy who has no life skills. Who was in a pod for 50 decades. Who had his memories manipulated , and broke through that memory manipulation and decided not destroying or taking over everything was the right course of action. 

So yeah shadow had enough time to realize, and eggman has had more than frigging enough enough.

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

He has no leg to stand on in regards to this debate and killing Eggman,

He does because his memories were being manipulated and as soon as that stopped he stopped being bad. And eggman chooses to be a murderous dictator on the daily

That's it. There's no argument here. No mantter how many words you put up. I can just reference sonic adventure 2's plot and eggman's default character. You have nothing here dude

[DabigRG]

@Ryannumber1gamerIt's almost like Forces shouldn't have happened.

[Rabid-Coot]

Eggman needs to be killed off in increasingly elaborate ways in each game so they have to make increasingly convolutated I survived reasons in the next.