Tumblr/Twitter Sonic's latest exploits

[Badnik Mechanic]

The poll was real, I have actually seen it, in fact it was dug up by Blue Blood a few months ago, not sure if this was prior to the SSMB crash or not.

It was posted on both retro and SSMB when it was dug up. 

Here is one source: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=787

But the actual poll/data on it is still online somewhere, I've seen it as recently as about a year ago so I know it exists and has been copied, but I have no idea where it currently is.

Boink: That didn't take very long.

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=30117

Here is the poll: http://web.archive.org/web/20050219134349/http://www.sega.com/survey/sonic2005/sonic_poll.php

[Celestia]

It's weird how Amy's an option in the "favourite character" and "how would you best describe this character" questions but not any of the ones after that. I mean, the same goes for Sonic, but that makes sense since the point of the poll was, evidently, gathering data for a spinoff starring someone else.

[Wraith]

Shadow: Renegade Hedgehog
Shadow: Rebel with a Cause
Shadow the Hedgehog
Shadow the Hedgehog: Chaos Unleashed!
Shadow: Sonic's Nemesis

Rebel with a Cause? Seriously? lmao.

 

 

Tails and the Giant Machine

Knuckles: City of Chaos

 

 If these represent actual ideas floating around and not just random names they came up with, I wonder what they would have been about. Would have much rather have seen one of these than what we got.

 

[Diesel]

It's not hearsay if the account is being given by people who voted in the poll. That's called testimony which is valid evidence.

If there is no proof that the poll even existed in the first place, then it is hearsay. Just because people claim they voted in the poll doesn't mean they actually did.

The poll was real, I have actually seen it, in fact it was dug up by Blue Blood a few months ago, not sure if this was prior to the SSMB crash or not.

It was posted on both retro and SSMB when it was dug up. 

Here is one source: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=787

But the actual poll/data on it is still online somewhere, I've seen it as recently as about a year ago so I know it exists and has been copied, but I have no idea where it currently is.

Boink: That didn't take very long.

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=30117

Here is the poll: http://web.archive.org/web/20050219134349/http://www.sega.com/survey/sonic2005/sonic_poll.php

Now there's proof. Thanks.

[azoo]

Tails and the Giant Machine, Knuckles: City of Chaos, and Dr. Eggman: The World's Not Enough would've all been infinitely better decisions than Shadow the Hedgehog. 

That said, if this was thrown only months before Shadow's game reveal.. then that means that it either a game with a hilariously short dev time, was originally a different game before it got retooled, or was already in development and the competition was a very slimy and underhanded way of giving them a reason for this to exist (since the results were never made public).

[Badnik Mechanic]

If there is no proof that the poll even existed in the first place, then it is hearsay. Just because people claim they voted in the poll doesn't mean they actually did.

Come on now. 

You have all these people cross site of different ages and different sites saying they voted in it, there comes a point where you have to admit it happened. 

Otherwise you might as well claim that the Summer of Sonic 2006 didn't happen since the official site now takes you to a 404. 

[Dr. Mechano]

I remember that poll from over a decade ago. I voted for an Eggman game, and in my naivete, actually thought we had a chance of getting one.

I remember being really let down when Shadow the Hedgehog was announced a few months later (which also indicated that they were going to just release a Shadow game no matter what the poll's outcome), but eh, c'est la vie.

[Diesel]

Come on now. 

You have all these people cross site of different ages and different sites saying they voted in it, there comes a point where you have to admit it happened. 

Otherwise you might as well claim that the Summer of Sonic 2006 didn't happen since the website is now down. 

Just because a bunch of people claim something happened doesn't mean it actually did. All that alone amounts to is just hearsay; rumors. There has to be more than rumor for something to be true.

And I'm not even denying that the poll existed anymore. You proved that it did with all those links, so I admitted it existed, thus there's no point in taking this further. All I'm saying is that you can't say something happened just because a bunch of people say it did.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Diesel

[Celestia]

 

That said, if this was thrown only months before Shadow's game reveal.. then that means that it either a game with a hilariously short dev time, was originally a different game before it got retooled, or was already in development and the competition was a very slimy and underhanded way of giving them a reason for this to exist (since the results were never made public).

Ehhh...if they had done it to "give them a reason for it to exist", they probably would have announced that the game was made because of the poll results. What's the point of trying to justify something and then, well...not bringing out that excuse at some point?

...Come to think of it, however things went behind the scenes, and if the game was made because of the poll...why didn't they mention that at some point? I can't really think of any reason not to. I always assumed they had announced the results and that's why people blamed it for ShTH existing.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Just because a bunch of people claim something happened doesn't mean it actually did. All that alone amounts to is just hearsay; rumors. There has to be more than rumor for something to be true.

So based on that then you don't believe Summer of Sonic 2006 happened either? 

This thinking really doesn't work in this scenario, it works if it's one persons word against another, but when you have people claiming something which has no beneficial value to or against themselves then odds are it actually did happen. Especially when the range of people saying it is so diverse and the thing in question is an event like this.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Hogfather

[Diesel]

So based on that then you don't believe Summer of Sonic 2006 happened either? 

That's a terrible analogy. There is more to just rumor that Summer of Sonic 2006 happened. One could pull it up via Wayback Machine. It obviously did happen. 

 

This thinking really doesn't work in this scenario, it works if it's one persons word against another, but when you have people claiming something which has no beneficial value to or against themselves then odds are it actually did happen. Especially when the range of people saying it is so diverse and the thing in question is an event like this.

No. Rumor alone is never proof something actually happened. 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2015 by Diesel

[Badnik Mechanic]

 

 But your problem is that you don't want to believe people who are the primary source of information, they were there, remember voting in it and remember participating in it, some of which have little or nothing to do with one another and they don't have any reason or motive to make up the experience for any reason.

In the case of digital material which this is, since it may sometimes not contain any physical or digital proof of it's existence, this is good enough to validate the claims given the volume of what people claim and how similar the stories are. 

Look I get what you're saying, you want proof/evidence that it actually existed before you believe it, but in cases like this, you really do have to take some leeway and think about it, there is no gain or reason for anyone to lie but also the volume of people saying it happened who claimed to be involved with it there does come a point where you have to admit it did actually happen.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Hogfather

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Tails and the Giant Machine, Knuckles: City of Chaos, and Dr. Eggman: The World's Not Enough would've all been infinitely better decisions than Shadow the Hedgehog.

I'm sorry, but given the laziness that came after Shadow The Hedgehog, what in the world makes you think they wouldn't have fucked up those games as well?

[Bowbowis]

That's a terrible analogy. There is more to just rumor that Summer of Sonic 2006 happened. One could pull it up via Wayback Machine. It obviously did happen. 

You mean like how Hogfather pulled up the poll on wayback machine a few posts ago?

Here is the poll: http://web.archive.org/web/20050219134349/http://www.sega.com/survey/sonic2005/sonic_poll.php

 

At any rate Knuckles: City of Chaos is a pretty cool sounding title. I can imagine the it being a Zelda/Metroidvania type game (blended with more traditional Sonic elements of course) where Knuckles dives deeper into the history of the Echidnas while searching for a lost El Dorado/Atlantis/Cibola/Shangri La-esqu city. That would actually be pretty interesting, which of course means it will never happen now.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Bowbowis

[azoo]

I'm sorry, but given the laziness that came after Shadow The Hedgehog, what in the world makes you think they wouldn't have fucked up those games as well?

Not being a gritty and try-hard game about a character they were pushing to be gritty and try-hard. Also including gritty and try-hard aliens.

[Nepenthe]

If there is no proof that the poll even existed in the first place, then it is hearsay. Just because people claim they voted in the poll doesn't mean they actually did.

I'm telling you your definitions are wrong. Hearsay is when Sally says Bob said x, y, and z. Testimony is when Bob says he actually did say x, y, and z. They're different things and have different levels of credence. Again, throwing out words without understanding what they mean does not an assertion make. It's like telling people physical green is made from red and yellow and then getting pissed when they correct you that it's made from blue and yellow.

[Celestia]

Who's to say they wouldn't have just tried that with Tails / Knuckles / Eggman? :V

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Not being a gritty and try-hard game about a character they were pushing to be gritty and try-hard. Also including gritty and try-hard aliens.

So, technical problems, poorly executed concepts, and/or likely being an all around bad game due to sheer incompetence of the developers is less of a problem then? Because Sonic 06 was no where near as gritty and try-hard as ShTH, and it managed to be worse.

Edited August 23, 2015 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diesel]

 But your problem is that you don't want to believe people who are the primary source of information, they were there, remember voting in it and remember participating in it, some of which have little or nothing to do with one another and they don't have any reason or motive to make up the experience for any reason.

Again, just because a lot of people claim they were there, remember voting in it and remember participating is not proof it actually happened. And you can't say not every person who claimed it happened would have no reason or motive to lie. Not everyone is the same; people lie for many reasons.

In the case of digital material which this is, since it may sometimes not contain any physical or digital proof of it's existence, this is good enough to validate the claims given the volume of what people claim and how similar the stories are.

No, a bunch of people claiming something is never proof it actually happened.

Look I get what you're saying, you want proof/evidence that it actually existed before you believe it, but in cases like this, you really do have to take some leeway and think about it, there is no gain or reason for anyone to lie but also the volume of people saying it happened who claimed to be involved with it there does come a point where you have to admit it did actually happen.

No, I'm not gonna believe something just because it's widespread without any actual proof.

 

You mean like how Hogfather pulled up the poll on wayback machine a few posts ago?

Do you not realize I'm no longer denying the existence of the popularity poll? Hogfather posted proof for it, and I already admitted that it existed. All I'm saying is that a bunch of people claiming something happened is never proof it actually happened.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Diesel

[azoo]

Who's to say they wouldn't have just tried that with Tails / Knuckles / Eggman? :V

It hurts to imagine.

Then again, none of those three characters have personalities or character designs meant to emphasize how much of a brooding badass they are with a terrible super ultra mega secret past.

So, technical problems, poorly executed concepts, and/or likely being an all around bad game due to sheer incompetence of the developers is less of a problem then? Because Sonic 06 was no where near as gritty and try-hard as ShTH, and it managed to be worse.

Shadow didn't even have many technical problems, it was just a bad game by design. And yeah, those poorly executed concepts and whatever else were mostly tied to the game they wanted to make (one based around a tone and a character that they took way too seriously, to the point of absolute disaster). Shadow's gameplay on a Tails, Knuckles or Eggman game would've made for shoddy gameplay, but not an awful experience.

And while 06 wasn't as gritty maybe, dear God was it just as try-hard.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Azoo

[Badnik Mechanic]

 

Again, just because a lot of people claim they were there, remember voting in it and remember participating is not proof it actually happened. Once again, that's just rumor. And you can't say not every person who claimed it happened would have no reason or motive to lie. Not everyone is the same; people lie for many reasons.

Well the problem really is with you on this one.

[Diesel]

It's not. There is nothing wrong with wanting actual proof before believing something.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Diesel

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Then again, none of those three characters have personalities or character designs meant to emphasize how much of a brooding badass they are with a terrible secret past.

Knuckles comes pretty damn close given his backstory and the things you could do with it.

Shadow didn't even have many technical problems, it was just a bad game by design. And yeah, those poorly executed concepts and whatever else were mostly tied to the game they wanted to make (one based around a tone and a character that they took way too seriously, to the point of absolute disaster). Shadow's gameplay on a Tails, Knuckles or Eggman game would've made for shoddy gameplay, but not an awful experience.

I wasn't saying Shadow had technical problems, I was referring to Sonic 06.

But even considering that, I seriously doubt Shadow's gameplay on a Tails, Knuckles, or Eggman game wouldn't have made for an awful experience just as much. You said it yourself, ShTH was a bad game by design. If that wouldn't be the case if you switched him out for Tails, Knuckles, or Eggman, then it wouldn't be the case for Shadow, because all you have to do is not make the tone and character too serious to the point of disaster, which would just make for shoddy gameplay.

Edited August 23, 2015 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Badnik Mechanic]

Considering where we are now from where we are in 2005. I felt it worthy to put this out there.

I really hope someone actually does this.

[shdowhunt60]

Sounds like they weren't just planning games for Shadow. Looks almost like they were planning games for everyone. Kind of a damn shame actually.