Tumblr/Twitter Sonic's latest exploits

[Badnik Mechanic]

Yes, he does. His uppercut punch in Sonic Advance, his Fire Dunk in Sonic Heroes, his Hammer Punch in Sonic Rivals and his Knuckle Slam in Sonic Rivals 2.

Yes, she was. She kept to herself and didn't trust others.

Knuckles doesn't have fire powers.

No she didn't. 

[Wraith]

Both are emerald guardians with fire powers and were loners until after they met Sonic.

They're very similar.

Repeating something that's untrue over and over again doesn't make it any less untrue

[The Tenth Doctor]

Yes, he does. His uppercut punch in Sonic Advance, his Fire Dunk in Sonic Heroes, his Hammer Punch in Sonic Rivals and his Knuckle Slam in Sonic Rivals 2.

Yes, she was. She kept to herself and didn't trust others.

Uppercut Punch - All characters leave trails in these games, his is red.

Fire Dunk - He punches characters fast and they burn from velocity. He doesn't create fire.

Hammer Punch - More Earth based power.

Knuckle Slam - That one I can give you.

 

Wait, she kept to herself? What a lousy Princess, how can you rule a land and not talk to others.

[Oscillo]

 

Blaze isn't an alternate counterpart of Knuckles.

...OK, that was my (momentary) mistake. But let's suppose they were counterparts - would that therefore no longer make them ripoffs of each other?

Edited August 29, 2015 by fOscillo

[LindseyWalker]

This conversation is going absolutely nowhere, so I'm going to bring up a potential talking point to try to make this place a bit more hospitable.

I think a Tails game would be an awesome idea, and Azoo said he would like Tails or Knuckles to win. How would you like to see a Tails game play?

[Diesel]

Knuckles doesn't have fire powers.

You're just repeating what you said over and over again without even attempting to provide any backing.

Knuckles does have fire powers; his uppercut in Sonic Advance, his Fire Dunk in Sonic Heroes, his Hammer Punch in Sonic Rivals and his Knuckle Slam in Sonic Rivals 2 are all examples of this.

No she didn't.

Yes, she did. Have you even played Sonic Rush? Even those who disagree with my statement that Blaze is a ripoff of Knuckles agree that Blaze was a loner.

Repeating something that's untrue over and over again doesn't make it any less untrue

Except it's true. Both Knuckles and Blaze are emerald guardians  with fire powers and were loners until they met Sonic.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Diesel

[Dejimon11]

My God were all getting worked up over a stupid popularity contest. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

This guy...

Collects a power up that makes him able to do this...

This guy...

Collects a power up which let's him do this...

They are therefore the same and have the same powers. Right? 

[Nepenthe]

Nothing is original. Sonic rips off Dragon Ball which is a ripoff of Journey to the West. Sonic rips off Mario. Mario is a damn ripoff of Popeye the Sailor Man and Mickey Mouse. Who cares?  Im not targeting you I'm just getting tired of the whole "this thing took elements from something automatic ripoff" stigma especially when it comes to sonic it's old now.

Understandable. I totally agree with you that everything is inspired by everything, and nothing is completely original. But I think it's pertinent when discussing meta concepts and connections within media to understand that there's various kinds of inspiration with differing contexts and connotations, such as when something is the simple use of cliche' divorced from specific examples, when something is deliberately referenced in a homage, when something is remade or rehashed with consent (remake, retelling, etc.), and when it's remade or rehashed without consent (rip-off). A rip-off is something that's seen as lazy at best and predatory at worst, and the end product is all the more hollow for it because it can only live in the shadow of its predecessor, which is frankly the only reason this argument has blown up this way. Everyone knows that Blaze has similarities to Knuckles, and in general the fandom is fine with that. What we're not fine with is the insinuation that Blaze, and only Blaze, is a "rip-off" and is thus a lesser character as a direct result, especially when this kind of reading isn't taking into account the sheer amount of differences she has to make a balanced conclusion in the first place.

[Badnik Mechanic]

The great irony of all of this is that when Blaze was first announced and people saw her art asset, everybody originally thought she was a female Shadow.

[Diesel]

Meh, I'll concede on my argument that both Knuckles and Blaze have fire powers. My other points still stand, though.

 

 

...OK, that was my (momentary) mistake. But let's suppose they were counterparts - would that therefore no longer make them ripoffs of each other?

That's right.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Diesel

[azoo]

Both are emerald guardians with fire powers and were loners until after they met Sonic.

They're very similar.

1 ) Different kinds of emeralds; and regardless of that they handle their jobs completely differently

2 ) Blaze is a pyrokinetic. Knuckles had one or two fire-looking moves once because he was painted as an anime-trope angry red guy.

3 ) Blaze was an introvert esque character. A loner only in her personality, otherwise being surrounded by royalty.

     Knuckles is a hermit. A loner only in profession, he lives on an island by himself, but seems pretty open to other people.

4 ) Blaze changed after she met Sonic. Knuckles didn't. He stayed exactly the same.

Hoooooly crap, dude. How many times can someone say this.

Once again, you are downplaying another character's flaws while inflating Shadow's. This is what I'm arguing against; you literally just said Knuckles' own character derailment is irrelevant because of his initially good appearances. Yet, Shadow's initial good appearances don't count for shit simply because his latter ones were bad? Do you not see just a little bit of hypocrisy here?

I'm fine with people not liking Shadow, that's not my issue; my issue is how everyone seems to have selective memory in how these characters have been portrayed to justify any arguments against them. Someone argues that Knuckles isn't that good a character and people are quick to cite his appearances in the Sonic Adventure series about how great his character is and that he's "just a victim" of bad writing. Yet, if somebody else tries to do the same for Shadow, they'll just get met with "He should have died in Sonic Adventure 2 and serves no purpose" . Bonus points if people blame Shadow for what's happened to Knuckles as if the writing staff had nothing to do with it. 

Shadow has a stigma attached to him that is almost undodgeable, which makes a world of difference between him and Knuckles.

Knuckles had a backstory that was pretty well done and positively recieved, with the elaboration it gained in SA1 also being well liked and accepted. His entire occupation is based on what was laid down in his foundations, so for that reason, his OOC moments are seen as diversions from his original interpretation and people have more than enough reason to still find worth in him.

Shadow also had a good backstory. However, Sega went out of their way to rewrite it and then made it unbelievably awful. Like Knuckles, Shadow's entire occupation is based on what his foundation and backstory was... but that backstory foundation was changed into something much, much worse.

And I would personally love Shadow to be treated like a better character, and be written better. But considering the stigma he'd left from the games he had the most presence in, I imagine it'd be hard to bring him back unless they were to either to never refer back to it ever (which would require the series to try to reevaluate his purpose), or rewrite the whole thing a second time / retcon it so that SA2's story was forever how it went and he's still alive and around because reasons.

In fact I imagine it'd be hard to bring back Shadow while convincing people it's not like how it was last time he was in the spotlight.

But whatever. I'm exhausted from this now.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Azoo

[Diesel]

1 ) Different kinds of emeralds; and regardless of that they handle their jobs completely differently

2 ) Blaze is a pyrokinetic. Knuckles had one or two fire-looking moves once because he was painted as an anime-trope angry red guy.

3 ) Blaze was an introvert esque character. A loner only in her personality, otherwise being surrounded by royalty.

     Knuckles is a hermit. A loner only in profession, he lives on an island by himself, but seems pretty open to other people.

4 ) Blaze changed after she met Sonic. Knuckles didn't. He stayed exactly the same.

1) Doesn't matter if they're different kinds of emerald; the characters are both still emerald guardians.
2) I conceded on that. 
3) Knuckles was introverted as well; someone who keeps away from others all their life is an introvert. And Knuckles only opened up to others after he met Sonic.
4) Nope, Knuckles no longer considered Sonic his enemy after meeting him; he considered him his friend after meeting him.

Perhaps "meet" is the wrong word to use. my bad. Knuckles and Blaze only opened up to others after they got to know Sonic.

[Diogenes]

Knuckles kept away from people because he lived on an island in the sky that the rest of the world didn't even know existed, not because he was an introvert.

[Nepenthe]

I don't understand why you still keep making the argument that Knuckles was an introvert until Sonic showed him the light.

[Kuzu]

We're literally going in circles about this, let it go people.

 

hey, let's talk about Vector & Rouge, that's something.

[Diesel]

Knuckles kept away from people because he lived on an island in the sky that the rest of the world didn't even know existed, not because he was an introvert.

No, he kept away from others because of his duty of guarding the Master Emerald. There's nothing to say he didn't know the outside world existed; he just chose not to get involved in it.

I don't understand why you still keep making the argument that Knuckles was an introvert until Sonic showed him the light.

He chose to keep to himself on the Angel Island and didn't open up to others. That made him an introvert.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Diesel

[Nepenthe]

He opened up to the animal friends on Angel Island, and he opened to Eggman immediately when he told him that Sonic was the bad guy. So you're literally wrong.

[Diogenes]

No, he kept away from others because of his duty of guarding the Master Emerald.

Yes. Not because he's an introvert. But because his duty kept him from meeting other people.

[Diesel]

He opened up to the animal friends on Angel Island,

Proof?

and he opened to Eggman immediately when he told him that Sonic was the bad guy. So you're literally wrong.

Aligning with someone =/= opening up to them.

Becoming friends with someone is opening up to them.

Yes. Not because he's an introvert. But because his duty kept him from meeting other people.

Which makes him an introvert. Introverts choose to keep to themselves. Extroverts choose to be with  others.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

 

Knuckles still has abilities related to fire, though, like Blaze.

You're really reaching with this one...

[Nepenthe]

 

Proof?

The Sonic 3 Japanese manual that I already quoted.

Aligning with someone =/= opening up to them.

Becoming friends with someone is opening up to them.

Your definitions are subjective bullshit.

[Osmium]

Proof?

Okay, this is quoted straight from from the direct translation of the Sonic 3 JP manual on Sonic Retro. 

"His name is Knuckles the Echidna. He's a spiny anteater who his friends on the island call "Knuckle". To Knuckle, who was born and raised on the island, its nature and its animals are all his friends. And the thing which protects his friends is the crystal pillar [called the "Pillar"]." 

Edited August 29, 2015 by Osmium

[Diogenes]

Introverts don't socialize much because they don't want to, not because they have some prior responsibility that they're beholden to. You don't temporarily become an introvert just because your mom makes you clean your room before you're allowed to go hang with your friends.

[TCB]

Haha yikes

Anyway, Metal and Blaze are two of my favorite characters in the series but if I had to choose I'll pick her. Sorry fellow Metal fans, I love the guy too (my 30 Days of Sonic posts will attest to that and one the very handful here who doesn't find him garbage) but thems the breaks.

Now about Rouge and Vector...that is the other poll going on right now right? 

Edited August 29, 2015 by TCB