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Tumblr/Twitter Sonic's latest exploits

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15 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Please tell me you're not implying that Arron Webber is making sociopolitical commentary, and is actually seeking to offend people.

Aaron made a joke that is obviously rooted in a sociopolitical issue, that being identity politics (this is different from making commentary where the intent is to make a point).

Whether or not he was intending to offend people doesn't actually matter, no more than Nakamura's intent to make Sonic 06 good actually means the game is good. Indeed, intent is always a misdirection of issues concerning institutional and cultural problems because harm is separate from intent. You can unintentionally harm someone or you intentionally harm someone. While your character is different in each scenario, the harm is nonetheless present in both. So again, Aaron's lack of intent to offend people doesn't actually matter. He still caused harm by making a joke that does little more than reinforce stereotypes and ignorance aimed at transgender people.

All of this goes back to the fact that, again, there are actual rules and structure to comedy. Anything can be funny, but that only happens once you've mastered what the ultimate punchline of the joke is. Hell, I've laughed at Louis CK's pedophilia joke and stand by his mastery of being able to take a subject so gross and turn it into something I could openly laugh at. What Aaron did was simply a failure based on the bare foundations of comedy, which he has actually done before because A.) He's an imperfect human being and B.) People keep bitching and whining about his use of memes so clearly we're all aware that the man doesn't always hit home runs when he's joking. It just so happened that, this time, the joke reinforced actual issues that transgender people face daily.

Edited by Nepenthe

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4 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Saying the joke is about hedgehogs and helicopters is a surface-level reading because you're taking the symbols at face value. The subtext of the joke (and it can't even be called subtext because of how the question was framed) was obviously about how people choose to identify themselves

Subtexts are subjective, and they are achieved through a series of associations. Every person sees different subtext in things that have them. But, as you said, it can't even be called "sub"-text, but not for a reason you listed. The reason is that Internet memes are pretty much never used in any context deeper than meaning of said meme, so there's no reason to think about anything that wasn't said directly in the tweet.

Also, as I said before, GID is a well-known disorder, meanwhile people like otherkin are just highly likely to be pretending. This parallel isn't just not apparent - it's wrong.

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Does anyone honestly believe in some conspiratorial nonsense that people are scouting the Sonic The Hedgehog Twitter account, of all accounts, looking for sociopolitical stuff to be offended by (to what end, honestly? Like, seriously, what is the end goal of these people "looking to be offended"?), or is it more likely that Aaron simply made a bad joke and people reacted naturally to it?

This is Internet. Someone retweets it, then someone posts it on Imgur, then it goes to places like Facebook, Reddit, this forum... Heck, wanna an example of someone deliberately looking for offense? Have it.

Reasons to be a pretend victim? Attention seeking (one of the better reasons), abuse/exploitation of people's emotions (and, sometimes, laws too) for emotional and material profit. Do you wanna be famous, but can't sing/dance/create anything? Then professional victimhood is for you! There are thousands of people doing that, and plenty of naive types blindly believe them (and plenty of people get outraged when authorities like judges decide not to).

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Complaining that the phrase "check your privilege" means "not allowed to talk at all" isn't civil discourse at this point. It's whining. I don't tolerate whining.

At which point is that? Did something special happen in the history of this world that made everyone believe exact same things, share exact same views? I see this talk about the joke being transphobic as no more than whining, yet I actually care to explain why those people are wrong. And you can't tolerate my view, because it contradicts yours. Obviously you are right, and clearly I am wrong, there's no other way! You know what that's called? Bigotry.

But of course, you are doing this for the greater good, for the well-being of trans folk. However, let me remind you something: you are the one equating people with serious disorder to childish Internet animal-pretenders, not me, not Ruby, not all those people who liked the tweet. The only reason why all of us are now going to have such associations in our heads now is because people like you implied this connection. The joke is not reinforcing any stereotypes, only you do.

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all and all, just because this is the Sonic Twitter doesn't mean they are immune to make any joke they want. Especially jokes like this and we have every right to call ou the joke just like all the white cisgendered people who defend the joke have the freedom to bash us for being upset to shut us up. It's a both way street. 

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Personally, I feel confident that Aaron wouldn't willingly make an offensive joke and that referencing a copypasta was really all he was doing. But the way he phrased it...well, let's just say it's not difficult for me to see why many people would take issue with it. I feel it's pretty unfortunate, but I'm not going to place all the blame on the people who are offended. The joke can appear to be belittling and derogatory, regardless of its likely innocent intent. So yeah, overall I feel like this is just an unfortunate happening all around and a lesson in being careful what you say, I guess.

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The only thing I'd personally say is that the ORIGINAL copypasta is clearly designed to mock SJWs in a way that validates the type of person who sees ANYONE getting offended over anything and chalking it up to "those crazy SJWs", which of course is overall harmful.

As for the Sonic twitter's referencing of this copypasta, all I can say is that it's far too vague a reference, feels a little inappropriate frankly due to the sexual nature of the joke.  On the flipside they've had public back and forths/mentions with Game Grumps a bunch during the SADX playthrough, and GG most certainly isn't family friendly material, so guess this is nothing new really in that sense.

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I guess another reason it rubs me the wrong way is that the meme has literally nothing to do with Sonic?  That's where it differs for me from past Game Grumps related stuff I guess.  Like, a whole franchise of things to pool humour from and rather than respond to that post with some fun Sonic reference, they just do an uncreative "insert meme = humour" angle.  Boring.

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Bad day in the office for Gene...

But this is spreading far too out. I still don't understand the meaning of that tweet but even if it is a joke, it has hurt some people. I personally don't like the new direction the Sonic social media accounts are taking, but I hope Aaron doesn't get in trouble (or worse fired) for this.

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20 hours ago, isCasted said:

I'll be brutally honest: gender dysphoria is a serious issue and not a thing to be messed with, but the ones messing with it are ones who equate trans people to otherkin. The "phenomenon" of fox/whale/fiction/goddess deity people is not yet explored outside of the Internet (specifically Tumblr), so there's every reason to think these people might not be serious. Even if science eventually discovers that otherkin really preceive themselves that way due to differences in brain structure (just like genuine trans people do), most of them might just be bandwagonners. It's always a hip thing to be different, whether it's about being a punk, hipster, bisexual - anything, even being trans. A lot of people identifying as trans went through neither surgery nor HRT (which aren't a walk in the park, mind it), they just feel like "hey, I cut my hair and dress in pants, look at me - I'm special!" And now we have transethnic multisystem Fluttershy-kin added to the equation. If anything, that's mocking trans people, and not what Ruby did.

Why did anyone have to draw the implication that the joke laughs off trans people when it's clearly about inhumane things? These are completely different things, and drawing associations to that kind of extent might just mean you have a problem. Heck, if you know you are different and you can't take a joke this mild, you should question your life choices. People naturally have differences, and all kinds of differences have been joked about, so why does this have to be different? Because you can't adapt to the society, so you need it to bend over you?

As for "check your privilege" thing, it's a phrase designed specifically to not let people speak on certain subjects. It dismisses potentially important opinions based on person's identity, even denying their life experiences. It is an ad hominem at its finest, and it shouldn't just be mocked - it needs to die out.

THIS. So much this. Why doesn't your post have more likes? :I

I have several things to say about this post. First off, this probably won't "excuse" the post, but I am transgender and I did find Aaron's post funny. Why? Because it's obviously an exaggeration and a stab at how ridiculous Tumblr is. There's honestly nothing offensive to what he did. You know that thing people do to make people laugh? What was it called again? Hmm... humour? Oh yeah! That! What happened to that? Have we really become so sensitive and butthurt that we can't even laugh at a joke? The entire basis of humour is that someone gets offended on some level. That's why it's funny. And I wouldn't call this transphobic in the least! No one who is transgender should get offended by this. Why? Because it has nothing to do with gender! And he's identifying as a non-living object, not the opposite gender, which makes this a completely different topic. Society has become so stuck up and "pro equality" that I feel we can't have fun or make a small comment or else we're considered "____-phobic" or "conservative". 

And really, I hate how this has become. The whole thing where people try and defend other and get offended for others and making a big deal out of small things. I bet that every single person who got offended by this was purposefully trying to get offended for "the sake of trans people" or is actually a stupid 12 year old Tumblr girl who thinks people can actually identify as non-living objects. Let's not forget someone tried to defend mayonnaise as a gender on that website, ok? Because really, I'm trans, and I know people on here who said had trans friends and guess what? We weren't offended! So stop getting offended for us! You're only going out of your way to make trouble or trying to find wrong in something that's perfectly fine. 

Ugh, I'm just sick of this nonsense always blowing out of proportion. People who get offended by this stuff is the reason why people like me get treated as a joke and why uneducated people see us as psychos and freaks. 

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Why is it that the people who get outraged at those who didn't find a joke funny think that those who they disagree with literally find nothing funny? I wasn't aware that there was a test being administered that said a lame joke from the Sonic The Hedgehog Twitter was the arbiter of whether or not I had a sense of humor? I mean, hell, if such a test was a thing and the goddamn Sonic The Hedgehog account was the par for what is funny and what isn't and not comedians with actual talent, I feel most people would fucking fail so hard.

Why is it also that the people who get outraged at those who didn't find a single joke funny tend to resort to stereotypical, alienating language and ad hominems that assumes malice on part of the people they disagree with? As a college-educated, well-read 26-year old black woman who doesn't even look at the Sonic account anymore because it got lame, I wasn't aware that I was either A.) Searching for stuff to be offended by on the account and B.) A stupid 12-year old girl. But thanks for telling me what I must be, which is ironic coming from a transgender person???........................................

Why is it also that minorities who disagree with the social criticism of something use their minority status to actually speak for everyone in their group? Like, isn't the point to not do that? If you weren't offended, that's fine. If a trans person was offended... that's fine too? 

Why is it also that the people who are against "outrage" (whatever that even means anymore) tend to be the most mad and indignant and huffy in these kinds of discussions? I can't be the only one seeing that.

11 minutes ago, Mr. Armstrong said:

Apologize or delete the Tweet would make things worse the SJWs never accept an apology only gives them more reason to create controversy and fire Arron for this nonsense would also cause more problems.

I'm only quoting this because I cracked up at the use of "The SJWs."

Edited by Nepenthe

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Just now, Diogenes said:

What? No it isn't.

Yeah, it is. Be it through violence of offense itself. Tom and Jerry for example. It's all about pain. Even slapping a pie in someone's face, that's mild misery, but still humour.

On a more, er, "talkative" example I guess, take South Park. Why does everyone love South Park so much? Because everyone gets offended in that show. They make fun of everything and everyone. Think of any show or movie you like and think of one of the jokes. Most likely it will have some sort of offense towards a person or topic. Though.. okay not every joke is offensive but most satire or irony has offense in it, so yeah.

3 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Why is it that the people who get outraged at those who didn't find a joke funny think that those who they disagree with literally find nothing funny? I wasn't aware that there was a test being administered that said a lame joke from the Sonic The Hedgehog Twitter was the arbiter of whether or not I had a sense of humor? 

Why is it also that the people who get outraged at those who didn't find a single joke funny tend to resort to stereotypical, alienating language and ad hominems that assumes malice on part of the people they disagree with? As a college-educated, well-read 26-year old black woman who doesn't even look at the Sonic account anymore because it got lame, I wasn't aware that I was either A.) Searching for stuff to be offended by on the account and B.) A stupid 12-year old girl. But thanks for telling me what I must be, which is ironic coming from a transgender person???........................................

Why is it also that minorities who disagree with the social criticism of something use their minority status to actually speak for everyone in their group? If you weren't offended, that's fine. If a trans person was offended... that's fine too? 

Why is it also that the people who are against "outrage" (whatever that even means anymore) tend to be the most mad and indignant and huffy in these kinds of discussions? I can't be the only one seeing that.

I'm only quoting this because I cracked up at the use of "The SJWs."

Ummm, excuse me?? Did I ever say I was talking about you specifically or about your comments? I didn't even look at your posts, I just talked about the people on Twitter and Tumblr. And I dunno if you also thought I said you have no sense of humour, but I really was not implying that. But hmm I guess I can't type out my thoughts without someone thinking I'm targeting them. Anyway, back to my point of humour being heavily based on offense, here's a video in case you need to understand better.

TED Talks are great stuff. 

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19 minutes ago, ElectricAngel said:

Ummm, excuse me?? Did I ever say I was talking about you specifically or about your comments? I didn't even look at your posts, I just talked about the people on Twitter and Tumblr. And I dunno if you also thought I said you have no sense of humour, but I really was not implying that. But hmm I guess I can't type out my thoughts without someone thinking I'm targeting them.

You said that "every single person" that has a problem with this lame joke is either intentionally looking for things to get offended about or a "stupid 12 year old Tumblr girl ". If your intent wasn't to target someone then why did you target "every single person"?

Question: Have you told a joke to someone, and someone didn't find it funny and found it offensive? What did you do? Complained about Twitter/Tumblr/12yearolds and linked him to some TED Talk videos?

Here's what I think: A joke fails hard if you afterwards have to spend time explaining that you didn't mean it in a bad way.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nepenthe said:

Why is it also that the people who are against "outrage" (whatever that even means anymore) tend to be the most mad and indignant and huffy in these kinds of discussions? I can't be the only one seeing that.

I'm a minority and I don't find it offensive, because I represent everyone in my group so therefore I'm right. I see this all the time on tumblr and it's annoying. Good for you if you don't find it offensive but your just one person. ^^*

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55 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

What? No it isn't.

Yeah it is.

Take any joke and someone can be offended on it, it says more about the person who claims to have been offended if they're offended at a joke about the key to a mans heart kind of line, or the chicken fanatic who believes birds should order alcohol. Maybe not so much if we're doing the one about the blind death and dumb kid who gets a disease for Christmas.

But pretty much every joke can be seen as being insulting to others. Just depends on how it's delivered as to if it's done in malicious intent or not.

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Why is it also that the people who are against "outrage" (whatever that even means anymore) tend to be the most mad and indignant and huffy in these kinds of discussions? I can't be the only one seeing that.

Thanks... A lot.

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2 minutes ago, Volphied said:

You said that "every single person" that has a problem with this lame joke is either intentionally looking for things to get offended about or a "stupid 12 year old Tumblr girl ". If your intent wasn't to target someone then why did you target "every single person"?

Question: Have you told a joke to someone, and someone didn't find it funny and found it offensive? What did you do? Complained about Twitter/Tumblr/12yearolds and linked him to some TED Talk videos?

Here's what I think: A joke fails hard if you afterwards have to spend time explaining that you didn't mean it in a bad way.

Hm, you're right. I probably should've been a hell of a lot more specific like "all the people in response to the particular Tweet by the Sonic account on Twitter, as in those replying directly and getting offended". Is that better? :/ 

And yes of course there are times when people get only offended and don't get the joke, and of course you explain to them. But this Tweet was just stupid and anyone getting genuinely offended by it is.. stupid. Sorry but it must be said. This whole idea of us arguing on it is stupid. Sue me. 

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2 minutes ago, ElectricAngel said:

And yes of course there are times when people get only offended and don't get the joke, and of course you explain to them. But this Tweet was just stupid and anyone getting genuinely offended by it is.. stupid. Sorry but it must be said. This whole idea of us arguing on it is stupid. Sue me. 

On the other hand I feel people who have grievances with the joke- regardless of whether or not it personally makes them mad- have a point and have made it throughout this conversation. They're not stupid; they have a different point of view that's not really disparaging to anyone. Not sure what the problem is. I don't get being angry at people having a personal emotional reaction.

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6 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

I don't get being angry at people having a personal emotional reaction.

I honestly have no idea what this sentence is saying or implying. Are you saying you don't understand why I'm mad at people who shouldn't get offended by this getting offended? Man that's confusing. English is a hoot of a language. 

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2 minutes ago, ElectricAngel said:

I honestly have no idea what this sentence is saying or implying. Are you saying you don't understand why I'm mad at people who shouldn't get offended by this getting offended? Man that's confusing. English is a hoot of a language. 

You keep saying people "shouldn't" get offended like language and feelings are indeed objective and people are provably wrong for having the reaction that they did. And you're basing this on literally nothing other than how you personally feel. This is basically getting mad at others for thinking differently than you do.

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2 hours ago, ElectricAngel said:

No one who is transgender should get offended by this. Why? Because it has nothing to do with gender! And he's identifying as a non-living object, not the opposite gender, which makes this a completely different topic.

The meme being referenced is pretty explicitly about trans people though, and honestly even if it was intended as, say, an otherkin joke (as some people have been trying to wave it off as), I still think it was kind of a bad joke that really wasn't necessary. (And that's not even getting into the "check your privilege" bit.) Of course it's completely plausible Aaron didn't know that, but that doesn't magically make everything better. And either way,  I don't think people are even that angry--I mean, I don't blame anyone who is, but even then, I'm mostly just seeing disappointment.

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Ugh, I'm just sick of this nonsense always blowing out of proportion. People who get offended by this stuff is the reason why people like me get treated as a joke and why uneducated people see us as psychos and freaks. 

Personally, I prefer to blame the people who hate us for people hating us.

Edited by Celestia

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2 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

You keep saying people "shouldn't" get offended like language and feelings are indeed objective and people are provably wrong for having the reaction that they did. And you're basing this on literally nothing other than how you personally feel. This is basically getting mad at others for thinking differently than you do.

Well, what are they basing it on then? They too are basing their reactions on how they personally feel. They saw a comment and thought it was immediately attacking them or the trans community. Are their feelings any more justified than mine? Don't think so. They're also getting mad at Aaron for thinking differently than them. In this kind of situation, I guess no one can win. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

4 minutes ago, Celestia said:

And either way,  I don't think people are even that angry--I mean, I don't blame anyone who is, but even then, I'm mostly just seeing disappointment.

I dunno, the Twitter replies seem pretty salty to me. 

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35 minutes ago, ElectricAngel said:

Well, what are they basing it on then? They too are basing their reactions on how they personally feel. They saw a comment and thought it was immediately attacking them or the trans community. Are their feelings any more justified than mine? Don't think so. They're also getting mad at Aaron for thinking differently than them. In this kind of situation, I guess no one can win.

Whether or not someone was or wasn't offended after reading the joke isn't the point. The point is where and how the debate is being levied. The fact is that we have one group of people who are overwhelmingly critiquing the joke itself on the basis of its content. On the other end, we have another group of people who are overwhelmingly trying to silence those levying that criticism at the joke through the use of direct insults, strawman arguments, mockery, and ostracization. As far as I've read on the Twitter timeline, no one in the first group has made any comments about Aaron's character other than saying it's likely he didn't intentionally mean to offend anyone (I think only one person says he should be fired, but that's not really a character judgement). Meanwhile, the second group has insisted that people are actually attacking Aaron's character, and then went a step further by essentially saying it's scientifically impossible to read the joke outside of their own interpretation, thus the insinuation being people are trying to basically ruin the world, are mentally incompetent, or are out to get financial gain (I still need someone to explain the latter to me because SCAD isn't cheap). Basically, in being ironically outraged at the possibility of someone's character being attacked, the second group... attacked the character of the first group......

One group is pretty much criticizing a joke. Another is outright demonizing the other side for criticizing the joke. The dreaded SJWs aren't in the wrong here.

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