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Think *secondary character* could carry their own series?

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Imy opinion on it is the same

 

Sure, so could tails knuckles, blaze ect. Sega hasn't nurtured this for anyone and fucked it up

Maybe one day, not right now. Unless the game was just so like... weird but lovable everyone just glomed on to it. otherwise they gotta build the brand back up

3 hours ago, Wraith said:

I think Shadow could potentially have a story to himself and it could work pretty well, but most of my favorite moments with him involve moments his more expressive peers draw out of him so tossing them aside would be kind of a waste unless you have more ideas on how to fill out the cast for him. 

Most of my ideas for amother Shadow focused piece don't involve the chaos powers at all. Instead I almost always land on his skates. Those things should inherently change how the guy interacts with the level design but they never have for reasons that are hard to argue with. A Shadow game would be a good opportunity to lean more into the extreme sports bent of SA2 and make a JSR/Platformer hybrid where solving some injustice and looking cool while doing it is the priority. 

That's an interesting point on it.

Gonna be honest though, my idea shadow the hedgehog like hypothetical game is character action. His move set is kinda built for it, when I think of  a shadow game or any spin off game. I don't want it to play like sonic,  I guess? And as an extreme sports thing, in my mind ... I would just prefer to have a sonic game play like that? Like I would want tails game to be like a mech thing or point and click. And knuckles to be all about the tresure hunting. I would want shadow's to embrace combat I guess

But again, your idea bout the extreme sports thing is pretty interesting though. Never thought of it like that. I suppose extreme sports was sort of really apart of the 00's era of sonic wasn't it. Pretty interesting perspective, seriously! I don't think people bring that up really. People always bring up the anime influences but yeah, a lot of extreme sports stuff. Its why the riders series exists.

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Considering his popularity he'd probably have the best odds of succeeding...if they didn't already blow it about 14 years ago. I don't think they'd be able to get out of the, uh, shadow, that the first Shadow game casts.

I'm not even sure what another Shadow game would be about at this point. The first one had an obvious hook of figuring out what is up with his missing memories and all the fakes Omega and Rouge found, but since they cleared that up he's felt pretty aimless as a character. He figured out Who He Is, he moved on from his past, and now he's just sort of...around? I don't find the whole humanity turning against him thing from '06 compelling considering he's already fought GUN and (ultimately) proven himself a good guy in both SA2 and his own game and there's no other obvious direction to take him that I can see. At least with a Blaze spinoff you'd have the angle of "here's all the stuff we didn't have time for in the other games", whereas we've seen more of Shadow's business than any other single character and it's all already been sorted.

I can't say his gameplay interests me much either. Where his gameplay overlaps with Sonic's is obviously not enough to justify a spinoff, and that's most of it. His chaos powers have always been kind of a mishmash of whatever they felt was cool at the time and have never really felt mechanically solid on top of that so I don't see a clear thread coming out of that. And Wraith's Jet Set Hedgehog idea might make for a fun game, but it feels like a mismatch for a Shadow game; he's just too cold and gloomy, rad stunts are way more of a Sonic thing.

Aftereffects of his first game aside it feels like you'd just have to throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks.

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Hold a whole series? Maybe? Personally I wouldn't be against another Shadow but I think it'd dobetter as an open world game or go in the style of the later Jak games rather than the different paths that you have to do 10 playthroughs to get the real end style of the first one.

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Now that I think about it, Blaze was supposed to have a bit of a "my powers are a curse and I am isolated because of them" kind of thing but it...never really comes up? None of the main characters are bothered by someone having superpowers, nobody we see in her home dimension even dislikes her besides the villains, and in '06's future (where it'd make the most sense to be wary of someone with fire powers) there's nobody around to give a shit. That's something I could see a spinoff explore; dig into Blaze's origins a bit and tie whatever she went through regarding her powers to some present threat.

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I'd disagree and argue that Shadow is more about his appearance than he let's on. It's obviously not as central to his character as Sonic is but he's never been above some cool tricks and a pose. I've come to consider Shadow a character that cares about his appearance more than he let's on but also knows that caring isn't cool so he doesn't let it out that often.That might make him sound a little immature for some if you but I mean hey he's still 16 right 

As for where the story should go I'm not sure about the specifics but I kind of like the idea of Shadow's arc being him lightening up a little. Not too much but enough where we get to see some more sides of him a little more often. I like the character quite a bit but I think his guard is up a little too often in most of his appearances. This would go hand in hand with what I said above and the game's focus on stunts. Perhaps his tricks get a little more elaborate as the game goes on as he gets more comfortable. I know Shadow fans take his dignify very seriously though so it'd have to be handled with nuance to work without feeling like too much of a departure or that he's goofing around during important moments in the story. 

At this point you might be better off just throwing your hands up and making another Sonic Riders, but I think it would suit Shadow really well. 

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When are people going to realize Shadow being serious works on a ironically brilliant and tounge in cheek way because it would be a juxtaposition to Sonic and the traditional way the Sonic world as foil in comparison looks like dante from devil may cry?

By making him a silly thing as well, you ruin his uniqueness and mystique of a proper concept that makes him Sonics greatest rival.

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If anyone would get their own series it be Shadow. Manly because he is the second most popular character. Honestly Id want a series based on princess sara 😛 lol

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Out of all the other side characters in this franchise, I think Shadow has the most potential by carrying his own series. The reason for this is unlike with others like Blaze or Knuckles he has developed his own image and is much further away from the usual Sonic formula. Maybe even too much, because he doesn't really feel like a typical Sonic character at all. He has his own cast of characters like DK Wario, he has his own unique gameplay style like Luigi, his world and storytelling is nothing like that of Sonic. So yes, he has the potential for his own series. 

I'm pretty sure if Sega didn't ruin his first stand-alone-game, Shadow would have become its own series. At least for a while, because I'm not sure if over the top edgelords are still something that people are into today. It seems that those types of characters are seen as a complete joke nowadays.

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I'm pretty sure that whole thing was more of a justification for why she was the way she was and not something meant to really be a problem for her to deal with in the now times.

I'm also pretty sure that it only came up once in Rush Adventure and didn't even get mentioned in the 1st game.

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No, because what I said in Blaze topic

Spoiler

Here's a thing: when you think about them in a void, most of Sonic characters could hold their own. (...)

The points is that in THEORY the answer with most of the guys is yes. But when you think about characters in a context of Sonic, no Sonic friend is getting a game anytime soon. That ship sailed in 2005 and they meet iceberg in 2006.

The only way Shadow gets another shoot if Sonic produces a spiritual successor to Adventure games which will be actually good and heavily involve Shadow.

But to indulge imagination I think I go with something like this:

- Keep him working with GUN, but with their minimal involvement (like Galactic Federation in most Metroid). Maybe give him one Mobian officer to give missions. Or if we want more details, create a sub-group to GUN (how about BULLET?...ok, definitely not) and they all mobians.
- Villains should be Infinite/Mephiles/Cthulhu kinda of dudes, a magical evil bastards.
- Basically I would mesh Devil May Cry (lightened up) with cheesy "are you bad enough dude to save president daughter?" type of movies. Avoid drama at first, sell Shadow as this badass action hero that fight demons and stuff.
- Now, some actual drama and characterization can come later into the game, surprising you with idea that Shadow actually has more than constant frown on his face. And for chaos sake, stories should NOT be about Maria & Gerald, it's time to move on.
- Keep Rouge and Omega, obviously.
- Gameplay could stay Sonic, but considering Shadow's numerous powers I would rather make a Bayonetta/DMC spectacle fighter.

Alternatively I would consider Metroidvania, with less "gun blazing action" and more "Shadow is sent to Castle Dracula  Planet Zebes mysterious evil place to learn it's lore and stop some eldritch evil"

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They'd need to both distinguish it from the Sonic games and distance it from the original Shadow game (so no guns, vehicles). That's no small feat.

The three big things that distinguish Shadow from Sonic are his jet skates, energy attacks and teleportation. With all that in mind, an action skating game with melee combat could be interesting. Think Jet Set Radio as a brawler.

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2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

No, because what I said in Blaze topic

  Hide contents

Here's a thing: when you think about them in a void, most of Sonic characters could hold their own. (...)

The points is that in THEORY the answer with most of the guys is yes. But when you think about characters in a context of Sonic, no Sonic friend is getting a game anytime soon. That ship sailed in 2005 and they meet iceberg in 2006.

The only way Shadow gets another shoot if Sonic produces a spiritual successor to Adventure games which will be actually good and heavily involve Shadow.

But to indulge imagination I think I go with something like this:

- Keep him working with GUN, but with their minimal involvement (like Galactic Federation in most Metroid). Maybe give him one Mobian officer to give missions. Or if we want more details, create a sub-group to GUN (how about BULLET?...ok, definitely not) and they all mobians.
- Villains should be Infinite/Mephiles/Cthulhu kinda of dudes, a magical evil bastards.
- Basically I would mesh Devil May Cry (lightened up) with cheesy "are you bad enough dude to save president daughter?" type of movies. Avoid drama at first, sell Shadow as this badass action hero that fight demons and stuff.
- Now, some actual drama and characterization can come later into the game, surprising you with idea that Shadow actually has more than constant frown on his face. And for chaos sake, stories should NOT be about Maria & Gerald, it's time to move on.
- Keep Rouge and Omega, obviously.
- Gameplay could stay Sonic, but considering Shadow's numerous powers I would rather make a Bayonetta/DMC spectacle fighter.

Alternatively I would consider Metroidvania, with less "gun blazing action" and more "Shadow is sent to Castle Dracula  Planet Zebes mysterious evil place to learn it's lore and stop some eldritch evil"

Good ideas, I'd kinda make Shadow into God of War lite, his Personality fits Kratos more than Dante or Cereza.

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Remember when they tried exactly this in 2005? The series was as its highest peak of popularity since 1993, and Sega unleashed a hopelessly cynical, laughably tone deaf piece of shit that millions of people had the misfortune of experiencing to make sure they destroyed that for anyone who wasn't 12 years old.

 

 

That's why the answer to whether a Shadow subseries would work is no. There's no inherent value to his character (anymore) or anything that they could creatively do with him (since he's always just been "He's Sonic but...") that would offset the damage that Sega did when they tried it the previous time.

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1 minute ago, Tornado said:

Remember when they tried exactly this in 2005? The series was as its highest peak of popularity since 1993, and Sega unleashed a hopelessly cynical, laughably tone deaf piece of shit that millions of people had the misfortune of experiencing.

 

 

That's why the answer to whether a Shadow subseries would work is no. There's no inherently value to his character (anymore) or anything that they could creatively do with him (since he's always just been "He's Sonic but...") that would offset the damage that Sega did when they tried it the previous time.

They found out his value when they created him to be more battle action oriented than Sonic.

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Am I the only one who's glad I don't have to go through a million of these topics anymore LOL.

For the most part, no to this question, however I could see them have a spin-off series for Tails, as Nintendo has shown it's both possible and profitable.  Maybe Tails Adventure 2 (Please SEGA)?

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32 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

They found out his value when they created him to be more battle action oriented than Sonic.

You're talking about something that was mostly relevant circa-2005, when his character was examined closely by the games of the time (Heroes, sorta, but Battle and ShtH in particular) to figure out what gave him his drive. Even by the time his role in STH '06 took place he was mostly treading water as a character in the series; since all of the mysterious things about his past and personality had been mostly settled in the previous game. As pointed out above, Blaze at least has stuff about her that was mentioned but then never really discussed much or detailed to any real extent. Shadow's mostly just been "around" since his character arcs have wrapped up, even if he has remained popular.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And before anything else comes up, the only characters who I'd say could probably actually carry their own games would be Knuckles, Amy, Tails or Rouge. They are the ones different enough conceptually where the immediate question wouldn't be "why isn't this just a Sonic game since it plays pretty much the same" and have parts of their character that could probably be expanded to fill out a whole story in said game and having any modicum of popularity. I could see a much more slower paced, vertically oriented Mario-esque platformer with all four of them (with brawling elements for Knuckles/Amy and perhaps puzzle or shooting ones for Tails and stealthy action stuff for Rouge). I can't see a Shadow game or a Blaze game that wouldn't just be a Sonic game with tweaks that were arbitrary in nature, made just so Sega could internally justify putting a different name on the box. Especially when they already delivered pretty much that the last time they tried with Shadow.

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Weird that these ended up merged without any post about it but makes it easier to address now II guess ,especially with Amy constantly showing up in the Blaze version.

Anyway though, the biggest thing that to me works against all of these characters is that simply they are affiliated with Sonic first and foremost, and from that perspective you have to deal with the franchise's current reputation (excluding Mania) and the critical panning of Sonic's friends that still goes on. So while theoretically any character could probably hold their ow series (yes even Amy who I see working narratively as following the adventures she goes on to try to get good enough to earn Sonic's respects) being Sonic characters first and foremost in the current environment makes such ventures unwise business decisions as it is unlikely they would be financially viable. If I had to do something though I'd probably make a minigame collection where each character has their own minigame and story as it would both draw in the fans of the friends and the feedback would provide an idea of which ideas were successful and which characters could be financially viable right now beyond Sonic.

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Ah, so someone combined this into one encompassing topic? Smart.

 

So to actually hit on this for a second, I'd say it'd ultimately up to a number of factors, first and foremost whether the game featuring any particular character is fun, appealing, and well made enough to warrant at least one sequel.

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4 hours ago, Tornado said:

You're talking about something that was mostly relevant circa-2005, when his character was examined closely by the games of the time (Heroes, sorta, but Battle and ShtH in particular) to figure out what gave him his drive. Even by the time his role in STH '06 took place he was mostly treading water as a character in the series; since all of the mysterious things about his past and personality had been mostly settled in the previous game. As pointed out above, Blaze at least has stuff about her that was mentioned but then never really discussed much or detailed to any real extent. Shadow's mostly just been "around" since his character arcs have wrapped up, even if he has remained popular.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And before anything else comes up, the only characters who I'd say could probably actually carry their own games would be Knuckles, Amy, Tails or Rouge. They are the ones different enough conceptually where the immediate question wouldn't be "why isn't this just a Sonic game since it plays pretty much the same" and have parts of their character that could probably be expanded to fill out a whole story in said game and having any modicum of popularity. I could see a much more slower paced, vertically oriented Mario-esque platformer with all four of them (with brawling elements for Knuckles/Amy and perhaps puzzle or shooting ones for Tails and stealthy action stuff for Rouge). I can't see a Shadow game or a Blaze game that wouldn't just be a Sonic game with tweaks that were arbitrary in nature, made just so Sega could internally justify putting a different name on the box. Especially when they already delivered pretty much that the last time they tried with Shadow.

I'm not talking about his character motivations, even though it helps my argument, I mean shadow ad a game playstyle would be more robust and complex than the traditional sonic based gameplay since it adds Sonics and fast paced combat ideas on a setting more suited for the tone about Shadow.

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Anyone who thinks that any characters not named Sonic can sustain their very own subseries is pretty delusional.

The Sonic franchise itself is mostly a very niche thing that only survives to this day because it's the one IP from Sega that had the most recognition in the west (and the past glory of once having given Mario a very serious run for his money). Nowadays, the franchise is just kind of there, still kicking a bit in an era where (mascot) platformers no longer have the appeal nor demand they once had in the mid 80's/early 90's. 

The most they can have, and that's a very generous possibility, is them having some role or playable appearances, but nothing more. Even within alternate media like cartoons or comics, the most they get is a small story arc or the occasional episode that let's them have a bit of spotlight since at the end of the day, what sells and makes people come to the franchise in the first place is Sonic. Everything else is just a welcomed extra.

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I unironically think Big the Cat could sustain his own series if it was just decently made fishing sims with Sonic skins. It wouldn't have blockbuster sales (by Sonic standards) but there's enough ironic enjoyment of Big as a character that I think people would try it out of pure curiosity. I'd play it. I stress that it would need to be a decent fishing sim but if they were creative enough in what you could catch I think it'd be worth it. It also helps that Big just kinda doesn't...matter? The general public kinda hates him. Most FANS I've seen kinda hate him . Justifiably given his role in Adventure but still. No one's gonna care if Big the Cat gets a shitty game.

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