Team Sonic Racing Overdrive (Part 2 Out Now)

[Plasme]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Uh, no. Shadow being willing to leave his allies behind if they can't keep up is basically canon.

Pretty desperate. That's the beginning of Sonic Heroes, where Shadow has amnesia and has forgotten who Rouge is. He doesn't even know Omega other than their introduction.

[KHCast]

2 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Pretty desperate. That's the beginning of Sonic Heroes, where Shadow has amnesia and has forgotten who Rouge is. He doesn't even know Omega other than their introduction.

Where is it ever established that once he regains his memories, his personality regarding this changes? Seems more like a natural trait of shadow vs a effect of the amnesia 

[dbzfan7]

26 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Considering we have Chao’s driving cars, are we even sure all Chao are babies? Seems like they can be pretty mature at points tbh. Lol

It's kind of a yes and no-ish thing. It's really the same as Sonic characters themselves being kinda ageless despite having ages. Chao more than often are very babyish creatures, and with the way it reacted I feel like they are going from the "Taken candy from a baby" joke.....which need we mention Shadow did say that was "Fine by Him" at his most edgy.

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Pretty desperate. That's the beginning of Sonic Heroes, where Shadow has amnesia and has forgotten who Rouge is. He doesn't even know Omega.

So what? They're already "officially" a team at that point, enough that he's willingly working with them, but he still expects them to pull their own weight. He comes to trust them more over time, but he still is and always has been an independent, standoffish kind of guy. Leaving them to get their shit together because he's sure he can win on his own, especially when it's just a race and not a situation when they're in any danger, is entirely consistent with his character.

[Plasme]

6 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Where is it ever established that once he regains his memories, his personality regarding this changes? Seems more like a natural trait of shadow vs a effect of the amnesia 

Where's the evidence from the games that he's happy to leave Rouge and Omega behind and win for himself?

Once he's reconnected with Rouge and is friends with Omega he consistently puts them before himself.

He's not an elegantly handled character by any stretch of the imagination, but one of his actually interesting qualities is that, despite his loner and selfish demeanour, he cares deeply about Omega and Rouge.

I get that racing isn't the same as saving Rouge from the island blowing up or being concerned over Omega's fate in 06, but if you aren't going to tap into Shadow's camaraderie in the shorts just so you can portray him as a one dimensional edge lord (and without doing it as well as Boom) then I'd say that's a major downgrade and out of his character. 

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

So what? They're already "officially" a team at that point, enough that he's willingly working with them, but he still expects them to pull their own weight. He comes to trust them more over time, but he still is and always has been an independent, standoffish kind of guy. Leaving them to get their shit together because he's sure he can win on his own, especially when it's just a race and not a situation when they're in any danger, is entirely consistent with his character.

They all know each other for about 5 minutes. Well Rouge has known Shadow a long time, but amnesia.

Go and actually get some evidence from any of the games that Shadow would leave Rouge and Omega behind once he's actually friends with them.

[Heckboy]

Shadow's just so into this whole racing thing that he can only focus on winning. It's new to him and he finds it thrilling. He's so single-minded in his desire to win that he doesn't even care about his friends on the race track, team or not.

He's the coolest, after all.

[Sega DogTagz]

Great episode. Sega gone done spoiled me tho and I fully expect a secret part III to drop right before release (which is just shy of 1 mo away - conveniently settling into their posting schedule).

Once again the character interactions are what shines brightest. Everything was great. I too would be willing to say all the characters felt pretty in character. Even if Shadow does care deeply for his teammates - he's never shown the type of sympathy to be the guy who's willing to sacrifice his own standing to help in trivial matters. Especially since the name of the game here is teamwork, and he has none, Shadow's lone wolf nature befits him only caring about crossing the finish line first and flat out ignoring the team based mechanics.

Not sure what running over the Eggpawn is supposed to imply though. Thats two episodes in a row where its heavily implied Shadow would make no attempt to drive around a cat that had wandered into the road. He'll clean the roadkill off his tires in the winners circle.

[Plasme]

4 minutes ago, Heckboy said:

Shadow's just so into this whole racing thing that he can only focus on winning. It's new to him and he finds it thrilling. He's so single-minded in his desire to win that he doesn't even care about his friends on the race track, team or not.

The shorts don't express this idea whatsoever.

They portray Shadow as not caring about anyone else and just wanting to win on his own. He's almost identical to his Boom portrayal. It has nothing to do with racing being new to him or him being overwhelmed by the thrill of it all.

2 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Not sure what running over the Eggpawn is supposed to imply though. Thats two episodes in a row where its heavily implied Shadow would make no attempt to drive around a cat that had wandered into the road. He'll clean the roadkill off his tires in the winners circle.

The joke is that Shadow doesn't care about running something over because he's edgy. Again, it's trying to be like Boom, but doesn't have the writing/direction to back that idea up.

[Patron]

Isn't it a "lone wolf versus power of teamwork" buildup with the payoff showing one of the game's central mechanics? The animations already showcased aspects like sharing items, team dialogue and the various Wisps.

[Plasme]

2 minutes ago, Patron said:

Isn't it a "lone wolf versus power of teamwork" buildup with the payoff showing one of the game's central mechanics? The animations already showcased aspects like sharing items, team dialogue and the various Wisps.

Yeah, I get that, it's clever in that respect. I just don't like the way they used Shadow to get that across. They could have used Eggman or Zavok.

[Heckboy]

Maybe racing is like an outlet for Shadow. Think about it. He probably has some lingering resentment towards Sonic for kicking his ass in the past, but since he works for GUN now he can't just go picking fights for no reason. So the only legitimate way he can take on Sonic now is in a racing competition like this. It's like therapy for Shadow. Unfortunately he got carried away because he's arrogant and ignored the spirit of Teamwork™ that this competition was meant to encourage.

There's a valuable life lesson to be learned here. Write this down, frame it, and pass it down to your children: Never be as single-minded as Shadow the Hedgehog was in Team Sonic Racing Overdrive Part 2. If you ignore the real superpower of Teamwork, you'll lose big time. Not just in racing, but in life.

[KHCast]

These animations rarely delve deep into the characters and all the facets of their personalities, hell mania adventures similarly did this. Simple pretty shallow depictions on the whole when comparing them to other counterparts of them, but still hits enough about them to not feel that separated from how they are typically presented, and works masterfully with what it does have creating charming fun personalities for each character. They’re short and sweet and the simplicity compliments that imo. Especially when we’re talking about a racing scenario where things are constantly moving so the option to flesh out and get deep into these characters and take into consideration everything that “makes” that character, is quite limited.(And this isn’t even considering the possible that A. Shadow doing this even is considered out of character and B. That noticeable a trait that’s missing)

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Go and actually get some evidence from any of the games that Shadow would leave Rouge and Omega behind once he's actually friends with them.

Again this is what his personality is. It's what his personality has always been. Here's Shadow staying in the future to deal with Mephiles, leaving Rouge behind. Here's Shadow going off to find Eggman alone leaving both Rouge and Omega behind because he can handle it himself, and Rouge basically saying he's being a dick but he's always like this.

2 minutes ago, Patron said:

Isn't it a "lone wolf versus power of teamwork" buildup with the payoff showing one of the game's central mechanics?

Yes, this exactly.

[Kuzu]

Man that was fu-*People complaining about characterization*

 

I fucking knew somebody was going to make the complaint, but I really wanted to be wrong. 

[Dr. Detective]

It's very odd that only Shadow seems to have his personality and traits examined down to the most minute of details like this.You couldn't escape it in the IDW thread either. I don't really understand why. Especially for something like this. 

He was entertaining and funny here. This was a confident portrayal of Shadow, showcasing his standing as a rival by utilizing his more negative traits in a cartoon short. It definitely was not this weird, over-the-top, "I hate friendship" portrayal done for the sake of being edgy and glorifying rebellion. They portray what Shadow was doing in too comedic a light and they very obviously intended it to be the absolute wrong thing for him to do.  I appreciate this being what separates Team Sonic from a team literally calling themselves Team Dark as well. Not evil like Eggman but not as teamwork savvy like the Primary Colors Gang. 

Perhaps if this were something more serious and not competition based I could see the argument against it better but this is fun. I largely don't see how this could at all turn into any kind of serious, heavy point of contention. They raced in cars and made goofy faces at each other. Were I to dive that heavily into my personal perception of Shadow's character over something like this, I'd personally feel a little embarrassed.

[Patron]

On another note, Green Light Ride gets better with each new snippet. Crush 40's finally back! According to Amazon Japan the soundtrack will be out on May 29.

[Skull Leader]

If there's one thing that I learned from this two-part animated mini show is that while working together is better than ditching your team mates to try to win the race, the power of teamwork still pales in comparisson with the obsession for your BFF.

[Kuzu]

I really don't get it. No other character besides Shadow gets scrutinized like this and it's honestly baffling to me that it's still continuing. We left this shit behind in 2005...

Guys...its ok for Shadow to be a dick sometimes...because Shadow is kind of a dick sometimes. Please stop taking a lighthearted animated short as a serious benchmark for characterization...

 

 

Anyway, yea I enjoyed this. Some punchlines didn't quite hit their mark, like lingering on Eggman's reaction shot too long. But the rest of it was great, and it was a neat way of tying into the game's mechanics on teamwork as well. Sucks that Team Vector never got a chance to appear though., 

[DabigRG]

This whole thing just shows to prove that Shadow isn't a very flexible character to use, despite or rather because of his popularity.

40 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Uh, no. Shadow being willing to leave his allies behind if they can't keep up is basically canon.

That in itself is a better constant than how Omega would've treated them.

35 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

It's kind of a yes and no-ish thing. It's really the same as Sonic characters themselves being kinda ageless despite having ages. Chao more than often are very babyish creatures, and with the way it reacted I feel like they are going from the "Taken candy from a baby" joke.....which need we mention Shadow did say that was "Fine by Him" at his most edgy.

I can't believe I forgot about that here.  

20 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Yeah, I get that, it's clever in that respect. I just don't like the way they used Shadow to get that across. They could have used Eggman or Zavok.

You know what, that might've been cool.

It helps that any of the three have little compunction about using the others as a means to an end.

15 minutes ago, KHCast said:

These animations rarely delve deep into the characters and all the facets of their personalities, hell mania adventures similarly did this. Simple pretty shallow depictions on the whole when comparing them to other counterparts of them, but still hits enough about them to not feel that separated from how they are typically presented, and works masterfully with what it does have creating charming fun personalities for each character. They’re short and sweet and the simplicity compliments that imo. Especially when we’re talking about a racing scenario where things are constantly moving so the option to flesh out and get deep into these characters and take into consideration everything that “makes” that character, is quite limited.

It's also worth noting one advantage to Classic is that it's an earlier and simpler timeframe, without the baggage of character development, epic stories, or dark tones to way it down.

Classic Sonic does something snappy? Miles acts cute? KTE is uneasy around Classic Sonic? Rosy throws a tantrum?

All fine and free game.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It's very odd that only Shadow seems to have his personality and traits examined down to the most minute of details like this.You couldn't escape it in the IDW thread either. I don't really understand why. Especially for something like this. 

 

Because from a certain point of view, Shadow has been too glorified and played seriously for the general energetic, fun, or even whimsical vibe the franchise generally goes with since day one.

Thus if you're gonna use him, you better make damn sure it's a higher stakes and/or bigger scope story that takes his darker, more above it all characterization into account. Cause if you don't, you run the risk of that type of response.

4 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

If there's one thing that I learned from this two-part animated mini show is that while working together is better than ditching your team mates to try to win the race, the power of teamwork still pales in comparisson with the obsession for your BFF.

...Wuh?

[Skull Leader]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I really don't get it. No other character besides Shadow gets scrutinized like this and it's honestly baffling to me that it's still continuing. We left this shit behind in 2005...

Guys...its ok for Shadow to be a dick sometimes...because Shadow is kind of a dick sometimes. Please stop taking a lighthearted animated short as a serious benchmark for characterization...

 

 

Anyway, yea I enjoyed this. Some punchlines didn't quite hit their mark, like lingering on Eggman's reaction shot too long. But the rest of it was great, and it was a neat way of tying into the game's mechanics on teamwork as well. Sucks that Team Vector never got a chance to appear though., 

People forget that this was just a race for shit and giggles and Shadow leaving behind his comrades has no consequences whatsoever because again, it's just a race.

Claiming Shadow is a jerk (although he IS a dick in a good and amusing way) for doing what he did is the same kind of hyuck-hyuck stupid as claiming that Amy must be a psycho yandere stalker because she was being aggressive to Sonic in a bloody race in which they are competing.

[Plasme]

People saying no one gets scrutinised like Shadow are tripping. Everyone whinges about Sonic being too snarky nowadays and cracking bad jokes, Tails being too arrogant and weak, Knuckles being too dumb and not the master emerald guardian. I could literally go on for thousands of words.

It's particularly absurd seeing as I'm way more open to character reinterpretations than the majority of people on this forum who are always up in arms about it.

I didn't even dislike the short because of its portrayl of Shadow (Im not even a fan of him), I take more umbrage with the lame jokes and over the top and amateurish expressions.

I just wanted to point out that I thought his presentation here was pretty boring.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I honestly liked Shadow's personality in this, and found it to be the funniest it's been in a long time. It adds a new element to his character beyond edgelord, loner, or dick. I kind of like the idea that Shadow is such a sore loser, and petty dick when it comes to competing with Sonic that he'd leave behind Rouge and Omega to continue alone. After all - in this race - only one of them needs to get to the finish line to make the team finish first. Stopping to get them would've been a disadvantage, given that they'd take time getting on, and add additional weight to his car.

Beyond that, it was set up in Part 1 to be a mainly rivalry thing to do with Sonic and Shadow, and from Shadow's perspective - Rouge got herself outed after trying to tease Knuckles, and Omega got himself outed by misunderstanding Rouge's request completely, so it's easy to take it as a "well Tails/Knuckles proved they're better, but I sure as hell refuse to let that blue annoyance do the same".

Like, it's just an innocent race for fun, what exactly is the big deal that Shadow got too into it, and got tunnel vision in his petty rivalry against Sonic, while forgetting about his own team? It fits in perfectly fine with his original loner personality and competitive streak against Sonic in SA2. It's not like Shadow just randomly decided to leave Rouge and Omega to die against an army of Egg Pawns or something.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Because from a certain point of view, Shadow has been too glorified and played seriously for the general energetic, fun, or even whimsical vibe the franchise generally goes with since day one.

If that's at all true, then I say continue to take the "risk". It's working. It's entertaining. It's interesting. And it doesn't seem like the majority of the people out there have an issue with Shadow's portrayal in this short anyway. Not on Youtube. Not on Twitter. Even here, a lot of us in defense of Shadow seem to be arguing against maybe one or two people. 

This franchise has characters who are flexible and available for both serious stories and fun, energetic ones. I feel like this short is, in part, genuine proof of that. 

It's actually a huge disservice to Shadow's character for anyone to believe he can only function in serious stories, if that is indeed the case being made here. Which I don't think is the case. It just seems like a genuine difference of opinion.

1 hour ago, Plasme said:

People saying no one gets scrutinised like Shadow are tripping. Everyone whinges about Sonic being too snarky nowadays and cracking bad jokes, Tails being too arrogant and weak, Knuckles being too dumb and not the master emerald guardian. I could literally go on for thousands of words.

No one said that the other characters don't get complained about. When it comes to Shadow though, his very essence and being is most definitely scrutinised down to the finest detail. All those other things you mentioned are largely considered heavy issues and are far more consistent problems. Of course no one's going to feel it's comparable to Shadow racing past Rouge for comedic effect. 

[KHCast]

10 minutes ago, Plasme said:

People saying no one gets scrutinised like Shadow are tripping. Everyone whinges about Sonic being too snarky nowadays and cracking bad jokes, Tails being too arrogant and weak, Knuckles being too dumb and not the master emerald guardian. I could literally go on for thousands of words.

 

A. People are talking about in relation to this series of animations, shadow seems to be the only one being brought up 

B. Most of those are in actual stakes situations or situations in which character motive and personality ties more into the lore and nature of these characters. Not short animations about them doing something non sequential like a friendly race 

C. By this logic, if you’re gonna complain about shadows personality and ditching of personal morale here, you may as well do the same about knuckles throwing out his duty to guard the master emerald for a race.

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, Plasme said:

People saying no one gets scrutinised like Shadow are tripping. Everyone whinges about Sonic being too snarky nowadays and cracking bad jokes, Tails being too arrogant and weak, Knuckles being too dumb and not the master emerald guardian. I could literally go on for thousands of words.

It's particularly absurd seeing as I'm way more open to character reinterpretations than the majority of people on this forum who are always up in arms about it.

I didn't even dislike the short because of its portrayl of Shadow, I take more umbrage with the lame jokes and over the top and amateurish expressions 

The difference is that while those are indeed occasional complaints, they are generally made because it either overexaggerates an existing trait of the characters or portrays them in a manner that strays too far from how they can/should be characterized. 

And those characters can, have been, and will continue to be showcased in a variety of lights because of their existing character traits. People will only complain when it's done too much or when they do behave out of their long established ranges.

 

As you note, Shadow never once participates in the overly comedic stuff in either this short or the previous. Is he in moments that are funny? Yes. Does he have moments that can be chuckled at? Sure. But it's never overt--whereas other characters make goofy faces or get smacked around comedically, he barely emotes and avoids getting hurt seamlessly.