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Meta77

Shantae 5 (Coming 2019)

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11 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I still remember one person on the forums that had gripes of shantaes design back in the early days on the kickstart forum. Granted Wayforward did not listen to them. But that is their thing. Same with MSF. As Blue said its a niche fanbase but most all like shantae as she is and Matt and his Wife Erin (mostly erin) created a character they like.  Not really sure how it pandering to anyone when its something they originally wanted.

Virtually of the characters are designed with a certain degree of sex appeal. That's pandering, even if it is what the creators original wanted. It's pandering to the audience who really likes that sort of design. Since you brought up MSM... It's literally the same thing. The fact that all of the characters are designed with such a kind of sex appeal makes me feel really uncomfortable.

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I also find this sort of character design particularly patronising; it tends to read as if the designers really thought it was necessary if they wanted to entice people to play their game, as if they had nothing else going for them.  I'll let it slide if it's not the defining design aesthetic of all characters, but there's only so much you can overlook.  If, though, it's the creators basically pandering to themselves... well, that's pretty embarrassing, too.  So I find myself conflicted about Shantae and Mighty Switch Force, which are fun to play but which I wouldn't necessarily want to be seen playing.

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23 minutes ago, FFWF said:

I also find this sort of character design particularly patronising; it tends to read as if the designers really thought it was necessary if they wanted to entice people to play their game, as if they had nothing else going for them.  I'll let it slide if it's not the defining design aesthetic of all characters, but there's only so much you can overlook.  If, though, it's the creators basically pandering to themselves... well, that's pretty embarrassing, too.  So I find myself conflicted about Shantae and Mighty Switch Force, which are fun to play but which I wouldn't necessarily want to be seen playing.

To say Erins wife was pandering to herself when making this game is silly. What would you prefer. Have you seen what belly dancers wear.

 sure if your not comfortable with it it can be odd but shes been that way since 92. Thankfully its brought them enough success to continue to pump out more games. I understand some in this time do find this unconfortable i guess but shantae is a strong and smart character adored by many. While not ignoring what you think its more the fact WF knows a few do not like it but a vast majority of the base carrying the game does. Plus the only major drama the series has ever had has been to WF making the test version of HGH shantae to white in her original reveal.

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To be honest I never saw Shantae as being super scandalously sexy (probably cuz I'm not into girls lmao), she is adorable more than anything, so for some reason despite me being very critical over females being hypersexualized in gaming, Shantae doesn't really bother me, I don't know why, I like the characters and their designs. Shantae is ABSOLUTELY NOT "just has sex appeal going for and nothing else". She is a very likable character, and so is everyone else (My favorite character is a giant red squid). A bit off topic but to be honest Half Genie Hero writing is a little worse over Pirate's Curse, which can be hilarious at times. Pirate's Curse has a lot of fan service moments but it is also a better, more well written game.

If you are playing just for THAT then I smh but whatever. But I feel like Shantae 5 could even tone down the fan service actually. 

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24 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

 

To be honest I never saw Shantae as being super scandalously sexy (probably cuz I'm not into girls lmao

 

I mean, @Blue Blood and me are gay and guys, and we personally still feel her sex angle may be played a bit much at times and even distract at times, so I don’t think not being into girls is a factor lol. 

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8 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I mean, @Blue Blood and me are gay and guys, and we personally still feel her sex angle may be played a bit much at times and even distract at times, so I don’t think not being into girls is a factor lol. 

True, just pointing that out just in case. I dunno it just doesn't really bother me. I mean, it should cuz I cannot stand things like the transition to Xenblade Chronicles 1 which was already fanservice enough, to Xenoblade 2 that absolutely put me off from it. XC1 was one of my favorite games of all time yet XC2 I don't even want to touch it. I hate the character designs from that game. I dunno why I don't feel the same about Shantae. To me is the same case for Bayonetta. I don't really care. I was bit against Shantae's design before I played the games, then I heard Pirate's Curse was good and I loved it.

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4 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

I left this out of my original post, but if you're going to accuse people on here of "being incredibly critical about everything again", I'm just going to go all out and levy each my nitpicks. 

Plus, it's not really a bad thing to be "critical."  When we point out the flaws of our favorite things, it's not because we genuinely hate it, just that we can have conversations about the strengths and weaknesses of media without crying every time it's brought up.  That's called... having a conversation.  You know, not too different from when you exit the movie theater and ask your friend "So what did you think of the movie?"  Like... come on.

Anyway, it would be naive of me to say that Shantae having sex appeal isn't an integral part of her character, but it doesn't really bother me in this case.  The fan servicey aspects are all (as far as I can remember) completely consensual.  It's not like anime upskirt shots where it's intended to appeal to creepy guys sneaking shots at something a girl might not want others to see.  While there is innuendo in the games, characters don't remark on each other's anatomy, make allusions to gross sex acts, or anything like that.  The sexy outfits are secondary to the actual happenings of the plot, which in itself could be a criticism but I don't really feel like it's a weakpoint for Shantae since the scope of the series doesn't necessarily lend its way to NEED an in-depth explanation for the clothes they wear.

I don't think bad of people who don't like the sexual aspects of it.  That's fine.  You can call it pandering, but I... I guess I just don't see it that way?  I don't really have too much of a defense for it, but compared to things like Kill la Kill or any entry of the Dead or Alive series, it doesn't feel nearly as grossly childish and gratuitous to me.

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I think it's perfectly fine to be uncomfortable with Shantae's design choices. Wayforward leans on the same body type for most of their characters and puts them in scenarios where they wear skimpy outfits often enough to raise an eyebrow.

I can only speak from having played Pirates Curse but it came off as sort of mild to me in a way that a lot of anime games don't. The designs always felt like they suited who the characters were in a way that I can't say about Xenoblade 2. There aren't any obvious male self insert characters drooling over the girls like...Xenoblade 2. That might be why it just comes off as "cute" or playful to some and not creepy. They're also written as characters with personalities and agency first and not either as goals for male characters or just a laundry list of personality traits guys who play games like. I've played enough "anime games" to see the ugliest of this stuff though so maybe I'm just desensitized but they come off as a bunch of characters that just...dress in a way that suits them. It's a  low bar to clear but you'd be surprised how many games can't do it.

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15 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I think it's perfectly fine to be uncomfortable with Shantae's design choices. I can only speak from having played Pirates Curse but it came off as sort of mild to me in a way that a lot of anime games don't. The designs always felt like they suited who the characters were in a way that I can't say about Xenoblade 2. There aren't any obvious male self insert characters drooling over the girls like...Xenoblade 2. That might be why it just comes off as "cute" or playful to some and not creepy. They're also written as characters with personalities and agency first and not either as goals for male characters or just a laundry list of personality traits guys who play games like. I've played enough "anime games" to see the ugliest of this stuff though so maybe I'm just desensitized. 

Well there is Bolo, but he is actually the most harmless "pervert guy" I ever saw in games lol

His relationship with Shantae is very brother and sister like, he doesn't seem to care about her in that way.

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2 hours ago, JosepHenry said:

Well there is Bolo, but he is actually the most harmless "pervert guy" I ever saw in games lol

His relationship with Shantae is very brother and sister like, he doesn't seem to care about her in that way.

Bolo is written as just a sparring partner / brother like figure to her. He see her as just a friend from what the games seem to protray. If anythinig rotty flirts the most with her.  And Sky being a older sister type.

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5 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Fitzroy said:

So essentially, boobs for Wayforward are what cartoon eyes are for Rare.

rofl. I guess one could equate it to that. But it is their style. The thing I find neat when I think about it nearly all their games main characters are ladies. Which is not a bad thing but just neat. Id love to see Shantae meet Patty one day

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9 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

rofl. I guess one could equate it to that. But it is their style. The thing I find neat when I think about it nearly all their games main characters are ladies. Which is not a bad thing but just neat. Id love to see Shantae meet Patty one day

Nah man. It's okay. As a Shantae fan,  I'm okay with it. Mainly because it never feels like the fanservice usurps the main points or characters.

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7 hours ago, Penny said:

I'd probably be fine with the fanservice-y aspect of Shantae, if it weren't for the fact that she's 16. Like, that feels downright dirty tbh

It's a shame you will never be able to enjoy the Walt Disney classic films Aladdin or The Little Mermaid.

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On 3/30/2019 at 11:14 PM, Tornado said:

It's a shame you will never be able to enjoy the Walt Disney classic films Aladdin or The Little Mermaid.

I think you could level the same criticism against those films and I imagine some already have. The fact they are classic films has no bearing on their other problematic elememts.

They are quite old films now too, Disney has handled its female characters more gracefully in recent years.

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Can we not just enjoy a thing and have fun with it? Why must everything nowadays have to be so political? I mean, Shantae is a bellydancer, so she kinda has to show her belly. I do not see anything wrong with it. But I'm also an old man that grew up with all those horrible non-political-cartoons and -games like Super Mario, Crash Bandicoot, Darkwing Duck, and Animaniacs, so... what do I know?

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11 hours ago, Plasme said:

I think you could level the same criticism against those films and I imagine some already have. The fact they are classic films has no bearing on their other problematic elememts.

Ariel is literally a mermaid. Heck,  by some mermaid standards,  she dresses pretty conservatively. Jasmine is an Indian princess dressing as some did.

To complain about that,  is inane to say the least. 

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Enough with this PC bullshit! Bad enough that those freaking SJWs destroy all of the old shows and movies, so I hope, really, really hope, that they will not infect games with their pc agenda as well. There is nothing wrong with Shantae and if someone has a problem with the game series, just do not buy them! This freaking SJW movement has to stop before they suck out everything that is fun out of the entertainment industry! 

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