Jump to content
Meta77

Shantae 5 (Coming 2019)

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

This is not a thing not a lot of games seem to get right.

And it seems that an upgrade like this should either be the default speed or not exist for Shantae.

The point of an upgrade like that is to decrease the risk of using it, not to just make it less tedious.

Well, ideally, I think it should be a setting.  The slow transformation speed is good for when you have only two transformations, so it helps ease you into the rhythm of doing it.  Start slow first and work your way up to the faster speed.  That sort of thing.

Making an upgrade just seems like an acknowledgement of a poorly implemented game mechanic, and instead of fixing it, they give you a feature to make it slightly less miserable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tara said:

Making an upgrade just seems like an acknowledgement of a poorly implemented game mechanic, and instead of fixing it, they give you a feature to make it slightly less miserable.

And it's such a common thing for some reason.

Like they can't think of anything else and they just really want to give the player an extra upgrade.

Or...they want to give the player an extra upgrade and make the base mechanic slightly worse so it'll actually seem useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The speed features are only for speed runners there is hardly any section in hgh that requires split second transformations.  While not instant noting will kill you. Only beach mode requires constant movement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um, no?  If it were meant only for speedrunners, it would be a setting, not a powerup you have to actually buy with in-game currency.  It is intended to have utility for the player, meaning the default transformation speed is intended to be an obstacle to overcome.  Not something you can OPTIONALLY get but only if you feel like it.  Like sure it's possible to beat the game without it, but they didn't put it in thinking that it would only be used by a certain sect of people who are only interested in clearing the game as fast possible.  That's like saying the back side of a hammer is only meant for perfectionists, but otherwise you don't need it.

Regardless, the argument raised against it are not about requirement; it's about the quality of the mechanics.  The same reason that open world games these days tend to have quick travel.  Not just for speedrunners, but because it makes lives easier on the people who are playing it.  And even those quick travels as well meaning as they are fall under the same general problem.  When your core game is focused on exploration, but you require so much backtracking that exploration stops being fun and thus you need a quick travel to mitigate that, I feel that this is a misguided design philosophy.  One that sees the weakness of the design and instead of thinking how can they make the design stronger, i.e. how can we make exploration more fun, they think "how can we make the less fun aspects go by quicker?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Tara said:

Um, no?  If it were meant only for speedrunners, it would be a setting, not a powerup you have to actually buy with in-game currency.  It is intended to have utility for the player, meaning the default transformation speed is intended to be an obstacle to overcome.  Not something you can OPTIONALLY get but only if you feel like it.  Like sure it's possible to beat the game without it, but they didn't put it in thinking that it would only be used by a certain sect of people who are only interested in clearing the game as fast possible.  That's like saying the back side of a hammer is only meant for perfectionists, but otherwise you don't need it.

Regardless, the argument raised against it are not about requirement; it's about the quality of the mechanics.  The same reason that open world games these days tend to have quick travel.  Not just for speedrunners, but because it makes lives easier on the people who are playing it.  And even those quick travels as well meaning as they are fall under the same general problem.  When your core game is focused on exploration, but you require so much backtracking that exploration stops being fun and thus you need a quick travel to mitigate that, I feel that this is a misguided design philosophy.  One that sees the weakness of the design and instead of thinking how can they make the design stronger, i.e. how can we make exploration more fun, they think "how can we make the less fun aspects go by quicker?"

They probably did add it for only a set group of people. There are several forms that you do not need like the health restoration, the orange tree or even the jar *unless your doing the early speed run method of farming for quick max out of certain attacks. Its like the infinite magic items, you do not need it but many try and get it for the fact it makes the game easier. I have people tell me constantly the figured out weird methods of beating sections i used to think required one form exclusively but yet somehow through sheer pain beat sections. aka the crab and the lasers on ammos ship. many used the monkey, one person used the elephant which i do not see how ha.

I understand the arguments presented here. But its the fact many think quickly transforming somehow halts the gameplay in some way or takes away from it. If anything its possible Pirate curse spoiled people since once unlocked you could use all her skills at once and the original formula "slowed" down for some. Now that I understand I think more. But Ill leave it at that.

 

With 5 it does look like they are going back to the more metrovania type caves and exploration though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

They probably did add it for only a set group of people. There are several forms that you do not need like the health restoration, the orange tree or even the jar *unless your doing the early speed run method of farming for quick max out of certain attacks. Its like the infinite magic items, you do not need it but many try and get it for the fact it makes the game easier. I have people tell me constantly the figured out weird methods of beating sections i used to think required one form exclusively but yet somehow through sheer pain beat sections. aka the crab and the lasers on ammos ship. many used the monkey, one person used the elephant which i do not see how ha.

I understand the arguments presented here. But its the fact many think quickly transforming somehow halts the gameplay in some way or takes away from it. If anything its possible Pirate curse spoiled people since once unlocked you could use all her skills at once and the original formula "slowed" down for some. Now that I understand I think more. But Ill leave it at that.

 

With 5 it does look like they are going back to the more metrovania type caves and exploration though.

The idea of an upgrade that increases the speed of base game functions has literally been a thing since the NES days if not sooner.  Why would this particular instance be something made specifically for speedrunners?  The fact that you don't "need" it doesn't mean that they don't think you will miss it if you don't have it or that it's not the optimal way to play otherwise.  That's the whole point of making the game's upgrades based in a store system.  Even if it's not fully realized as well as it ought to be, it's point is for you to evaluate your options and weigh your priorities.  It doesn't really work out that way, since the in-game economy isn't so rigid that you'd have to spend more than an hour or so grinding before you're able to afford basically everything in the store anyway.  But the idea that it's something that was made specifically with speedrunners in mind and not because they saw the base transformation speed was kind of sluggish and thought "people might actually want this feature" is a bit of a logical leap.

Even though I don't necessarily agree with them, I am perfectly fine with people who think that the transformations are not as seamless as they otherwise could be.  Pirate's Curse didn't "spoil" them, it showed that better game design was in fact possible.  It essentially highlights the weakpoints of the system, just like the lack of Spin Dash in original Sonic 1 or Tails' in ability to fly in original Sonic 2 are all the more noticeable now that we've had 20+ years of games that rectify this and subsequent ports of said games that have also mended the issue.  Surely, it's not the worst aspect of the series, and I don't think anyone is suggesting that it makes the games terrible, but that there are certainly ways of improving it that would make the flow of the gameplay much more palatable and less clunky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tara said:

The idea of an upgrade that increases the speed of base game functions has literally been a thing since the NES days if not sooner.  Why would this particular instance be something made specifically for speedrunners?  The fact that you don't "need" it doesn't mean that they don't think you will miss it if you don't have it or that it's not the optimal way to play otherwise.  That's the whole point of making the game's upgrades based in a store system.  Even if it's not fully realized as well as it ought to be, it's point is for you to evaluate your options and weigh your priorities.  It doesn't really work out that way, since the in-game economy isn't so rigid that you'd have to spend more than an hour or so grinding before you're able to afford basically everything in the store anyway.  But the idea that it's something that was made specifically with speedrunners in mind and not because they saw the base transformation speed was kind of sluggish and thought "people might actually want this feature" is a bit of a logical leap.

Even though I don't necessarily agree with them, I am perfectly fine with people who think that the transformations are not as seamless as they otherwise could be.  Pirate's Curse didn't "spoil" them, it showed that better game design was in fact possible.  It essentially highlights the weakpoints of the system, just like the lack of Spin Dash in original Sonic 1 or Tails' in ability to fly in original Sonic 2 are all the more noticeable now that we've had 20+ years of games that rectify this and subsequent ports of said games that have also mended the issue.  Surely, it's not the worst aspect of the series, and I don't think anyone is suggesting that it makes the games terrible, but that there are certainly ways of improving it that would make the flow of the gameplay much more palatable and less clunky.

Ok i can agree with you there on that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tara said:

Pirate's Curse didn't "spoil" them, it showed that better game design was in fact possible.  It essentially highlights the weakpoints of the system, just like the lack of Spin Dash in original Sonic 1 or Tails' in ability to fly in original Sonic 2 are all the more noticeable now that we've had 20+ years of games that rectify this and subsequent ports of said games that have also mended the issue.  Surely, it's not the worst aspect of the series, and I don't think anyone is suggesting that it makes the games terrible, but that there are certainly ways of improving it that would make the flow of the gameplay much more palatable and less clunky.

This is more or less a perfect summary of where I'm at. Nothing about Shantae is outright "bad," it just feels like there's some obvious room for improvement. I hope that Wayforward continues to experiment and innovate on the formula going forward, and that "Shantae 5" doesn't feel like yet another "celebration" of the first game that ends up wallowing in its traditions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

News! The game is now named " Shantae and the Seven Sirens."

Some interesting highlights to pay attention towards is the fact this game will feature instant transformations, and a nonlinear world with multiple towns and dungeons. More info in the link below.

https://wayforward.com/wayforward-reveals-official-title-and-new-details-for-shantae-and-the-seven-sirens/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure how I feel about the multiple towns bit (I know it was a thing in Shantae 1). Still really hope Sequin Town will act as a central hub to branch into all of the levels, as opposed to having multiple hubs.

Really interested in that no dances bit though. Can't wait to see how that plays out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never played Shantae, but I was under the impression that a lot of fans wanted to remove the dance animation so you could instantly swap between the powers, ala the pirate equipment in Pirate's Curse?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Plasme said:

I've never played Shantae, but I was under the impression that a lot of fans wanted to remove the dance animation so you could instantly swap between the powers, ala the pirate equipment in Pirate's Curse?

"Some" fans. Some thought it slowed down the fast pace nature of the game. Most I talk to daily like the dances and animations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Meta77 said:

"Some" fans. Some thought it slowed down the fast pace nature of the game. Most I talk to daily like the dances and animations.

I'm a fan and I don't think the slow dance mechanic for transformations are a great idea anymore as it just breaks the pace of the game regardless that it can be kinda fun the first few times you see it. Pirate's curse is my fave Shantae when it comes to gameplay, and I prefer playing as Risky for multiple reasons in Half Genie Hero. I don't think normal Shantae's gameplay outside of pirate's curse is very fun to play as personally. I like that wayforward is trying to evolve the series gameplay mechanics and listening to reasonable feedback instead of just keeping it stuck on the past ways. However I do wish that dancing could be kept in for something other then just the minigames, also used on something that won't break the flow of gameplay... It would be a challenge to think up something good... maybe one idea is there could be 2 versions of doing transformations, one version could be called "quick transform" and another could be "master transform" which gives you certain stat bonus while transformed, except you gotta do the classic dance mode for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I hope it's a option cause I liked the dances since she is a belly dancer after all

3 hours ago, Soniman said:

So the dance mechanic is just dead then? Rip 

2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Really interested in that no dances bit though.

 

Quote

Sounds like we'll still get dancing in there.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice said:

 

Sounds like we'll still get dancing in there.

 

I could see it being a mini game where if you mess up the sequence you lose like say pump it up or what was the pc version of dance games. step mania?

Also in the pr email I got it says its called fusion magic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if instant-transformation and Fusion Magic are the same or slightly separate things? The info page says "instant-transformation Fusion Magic" at one moment and says "Fusion Magic creature transformations" at another moment. also the word fusion makes me think that the creature forms can be combined somehow... Could be very interesting if the various moves of the different transformations can placed together on one form allowing for a customized move set, it does sound like they are implying that when they said this line. "The game also features a new collectible card system that grants players the freedom to augment Shantae’s powers to suit their own style of play."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not a huge fan of the visual style of this game. The fact they’re using HGH’s artwork but with the more flat background style of the first 3 games instead of HGH’s more 2.5D look makes it look more like a step-down from it, visually. 

Otherwise, the game seems like the familiar Shantae fare. Although, perhaps a bit too familiar? I wonder what kind of things are they gonna add to make this game stand out amongst the other games in the series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.