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Star Wars fans have it as bad as Sonic fans

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5 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

No but i do ask for more challenge and also a bit more variety.

And yes you can mix 2D and 3D levels and still make it feel fresh and new.

What's wrong with making a pure 3D game? I'm sick of these games lying to me. If you gonna call it a 3D game, then commit to the 3D. If it's really that difficult to make a 3D game then work on it, don't just pad out half the game with 2D sections. 

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16 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

What's wrong with making a pure 3D game? I'm sick of these games lying to me. If you gonna call it a 3D game, then commit to the 3D. If it's really that difficult to make a 3D game then work on it, don't just pad out half the game with 2D sections. 

3D modeling takes time money and effort.

And its not like going full 3D is in sonics best interest.

While i think both Sonic adventure 1 and 2 are vastly over hated they do suffer from wonky level design, bad camera angles and sometimes very stiff controls.

I actually dont think Sonic does too well in a 3D space, even in a great 3D fan game such as Greenhill Paradise have their drawbacks.

And lets be honest do you really think Sega is going to pull a good full 3D sonic game anytime soon?

Not with the current staff, they really made some serious blunders in Forces

 

Sorry mate i have no faith in Sega doing a good 3D sonic game, maybe Green hill paradise will be the closest we have to a full sonic 3d game but i still feel its a task beyond sega or even indie developers unless they had loads of cash which is something sega sure as hell doesnt have these days.

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13 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

3D modeling takes time money and effort.

And its not like going full 3D is in sonics best interest.

While i think both Sonic adventure 1 and 2 are vastly over hated they do suffer from wonky level design, bad camera angles and sometimes very stiff controls.

I actually dont think Sonic does too well in a 3D space, evwen in a great 3D fan game such as Greenhill Paradise have their drawbacks.

And lets be honest do you really think Sega is going to pull a good full 3D sonic game anytime soon?

Not with the current staff, they really made some serious blunders in Forces

 

Sorry mate i have no faith in Sega doing a good 3D sonic game, maybe Green hill paradise will be the closest we have to a full sonic game but i still feel its a task beyond sega or even indie developers unless they had loads of cash which is something sega sure as hell doesnt have these days.

Do you know how pathetic that sounds:

"Hey guys let's make a 3D game"

"Oh but that's too haaaaard and I don't want to take the time to make the game work in a 3D environment"

"Ah screw it just make most of if it 2D"

At some point they have to let go of the crutch of 2D for the 3D games. If the games can't be in 3D most of the time thendon't fucking call it a 3D game. If your 3D game can only work with padding most of it with 2D sections,  then call it for what it really is: 2.5D.  If I really wanted 2D Sonic I would had picked up Mania or it's future sequels, which really shows how unnecessary 2D is for Modern Sonic.

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11 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

At some point they have to let go of the crutch of 2D for the 3D games. If the games can't be in 3D most of the time then don't then don't fucking call it a 3D game. If your 3D game can only work with padding the game with 2D sections,  then call it for what it is: 2.5D.  If I really wanted 2D Sonic I would had picked up Mania.

Well if you really want a good reason why i have no faith in Sega doing a good 3D sonic game then look at 06, do you want another Sonic 06?

And again lets be realistic here sega isnt nintendo, Sega is worth USD $1,891,853,600.00  and nintendo is worth USD $2,271,142,960,450.00

Even in its heyday Sega wanst as big as Nintendo so asking them to give you a all around 3D Sonic game might as well be asking them for the moon.

Its not going to happen unless Nintendo buys sega, but i rather not that happen as i kind of like playing new sonic games on my PC without emulators thank you very much.

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On 4/24/2019 at 11:03 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I understand the frustration some had with The Last Jedi but if Sonic 06 had that movie's story and characters it would have been an improved product.

- A character chasing women desperately for the plot

- Another two characters going on a pointless sidequest that doesn't amount to anything to the end story

- The awesome and cool Mary Sue getting the real plot that moves the story forward, barely stopped by any kind of conflict or indecision

 

wait... 

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8 minutes ago, Azzy said:

- A character chasing women desperately for the plot

- Another two characters going on a pointless sidequest that doesn't amount to anything to the end story

- The awesome and cool Mary Sue getting the real plot that moves the story forward, barely stopped by any kind of conflict or indecision

 

wait... 

Well Sonic 06 hasd two mary sues both Silver and Shadow so yeah....

 

Hey if you can arbitrary use the term mary sue so can i :D

(come to think of it I actually think Silver is more of a Mary sue than Rey is if we use all those urban dictionary buggery that people like these days or those real shit mary sue tests that prove nothing)

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4 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well if you really want a good reason why i have no faith in Sega doing a good 3D sonic game then look at 06, do you want another Sonic 06?

A game where I get to play as actual non-Sonic characters, the plot is more serious than anything since Colors, it's fully in 3D and I get to actually give a damn about anything aside from the gameplay? As long as they don't rush the game out leaving in technical issues and long ass loading screens then yes. Fucking yes I would gladly take another 06.

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10 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

A game where I get to play as actual non-Sonic characters, the plot is more serious than anything since Colors, it's fully in 3D and I get to actually give a damn about anything aside from the gameplay? As long as they don't rush the game out leaving in technical issues and long ass loading screens then yes. Fucking yes I would gladly take another 06.

But thats the problem: this is sega

And honestly what game have they made in the last 5 years that was any good that was not a remake or a re do?

Segas kind of lost steam as of late, they have made attempts to come back but its all gone down the crapper.

I honestly think unless there is something done soon with sega they will wind up like atari.... they are already halfway there as it is now.

Sadly yes one of the ways to help is to buy retro games, they offer me a retro 2d sonic game? sure i will; buy it if its anything like Mania.

And honestly re mastering isnt such a bad idea either, but sega seriously lacks the power it once had.

 

My personal advise is to not ask for such things and be realistic, try to enjoy the 2D sonic games and levels.

Mania is a great game if only you give it a chance.

I know that 2d games must be lame to you or whatever and 3D is the end all and be all of games.... but its a costly venture.

This is why a lot of indie games use 2D because its cheap.

Me i dont care if there is ever a full 3D sonic game, i just want something good...

They did a good job with colors and generations but they do need to change things without doing something stupid like werewolf sonic again.

But i dont think taking out the 2D sections is a good idea.

 

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7 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

Yeah I'm bored of the classic pandering in the games so I'm not throwing $30 bucks for something that doesn't interest me.

 

Shame then as you may miss out on something great.

I mean you already counted mania out which is a shame as its honestly the best sonic game in years 2D or otherwise.

I personally dont care if the levels are re mixes of old ones as the gameplay is solid and its still sure as shit better than forces as while forces may have more new levels.... its actually worse for it.

 

I mean yes the story is basic, we re not going to get game of thrones lord of the rings shit here but thats never been Sonics forte.

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Just now, MadmanRB said:

Shame then as you may miss out on something great.

I mean you already counted mania out which is a shame as its honestly the best sonic game in years 2D or otherwise.

I know I haven't been blunt about it so I'm gonna do so now:

I don't give a damn about Mania or anything heavily tied to classic era. Not when it came out, not when it got overwhelming positive reviews, and not when it short animated shorts based on it. The classic aesthetic doesn't appeal to me as much as the Adventure era.

You say that it's the best game and you're free to do so but I don't agree with that. Not now not ever.

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9 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

I know I haven't been blunt about it so I'm gonna do so now:

I don't give a damn about Mania or anything heavily tied to classic era. Not when it came out, not when it got overwhelming positive reviews, and not when it short animated shorts based on it. The classic aesthetic doesn't appeal to me as much as the Adventure era.

You say that it's the best game and you're free to do so but I don't agree with that. Not now not ever.

Well the why should i give a damn about Modern sonic?

I was born before the adventure era, so why should i care about the modern games?

Enjoy werewolf sonic, your black gun toting hedgehogs and your wisps and your boost formula...

Me i actually know what a good sonic game looks like, you would too if you only gave the classics a chance.

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It's not about me refusing to give the classic games a chance. It's more that I'm burned out on SEGA's constant nostalgia pandering from making their games 80% 2D Colors onward,  referencing Green Hill Zone at every opportunity and throwing in retro Sonic in Forces despite having his own damn game to himself. Along with the fact that the games having nothing that got me into Sonic in the first place.

You think the Mania game is good fine, I'm not stopping you. But just because a million people love the game, I'm not obligated to play the game if I never cared for damn thing in the first place.

Not everyone loves Modern Sonic, but not everyone has to love the Classic games either.

Also, "Me i actually know what a good sonic game looks like", really doesn't help the situation and continues to show the problems with the fandom.

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10 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

It's not about me refusing to give the classic games a chance. It's more that I'm burned out on SEGA's constant nostalgia pandering from making their games 80% 2D Colors onward,   throwing Green Hill Zone at every opportunity and throwing in retro Sonic in Forces despite having his own damn game to himself. Along with the fact that the games having nothing that got me into Sonic in the first place.

You think the Mania game is good fine, I'm not stopping you. But just because a million people love the game, I'm not obligated to play the game if I never cared for damn thing in the first place.

Not everyone loves Modern Sonic, but not everyone has to love the Classic games either.

Also, "Me i actually know what a good sonic game looks like", really doesn't help the situation and continues to show the problem with the fandom.

Well me i am burned out by all the damned gimmicks, the boost levels and lazy game level design.

Modern Sonic offers me nothing other than "ooh look shadow clone #209458!"

I rather have classic sonic again, the glory days where Sonic didnt have baggage like extra characters or crap storylines.

If that means sonic going 2D i am all for it

But what would you do if Sonic went 2D again and this time for good?

Guess you will miss out on many possibly great games because you are too attached to modern Sonic.

Me I am not so blindly attached to classic sonic but at the same time Sega needs to learn from its mistakes.

If that means a few classic style games until a new 3D game is ready so be it, actually rather sega do that than blunder into another 06.

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Just now, MadmanRB said:

Well me i am burned out by all the damned gimmicks, the boost levels and lazy game level design.

Modern Sonic offers me nothing other than "ooh look shadow clone #209458!"

I rather have classic sonic again, the glory days where Sonic didnt have baggage like extra characters.

If that means sonic going 2D i am all for it.

 

You like the classic games and ok with the current direction of the games. I like the Adventure games and not thrilled on how the games turned out in recent. Let's just leave it at that before things ugly.

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2 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

You like the classic games and ok with the current direction of the games. I like the Adventure games and not thrilled on how the games turned out in recent. Let's just leave it at that before things ugly.

mind you I am also not happy with the current state of Sonic, only i rather Sonic just go classic for a while.

There can still be 3D or 2.5D sonic games but Forces was the end result of a rushed development much like 06.

I actually think the best compromise is to have good 2D games and 3D games but again I dont think segas is capable of making good 3D sonic games.

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5 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

mind you I am also not happy with the current state of Sonic, only i rather Sonic just go classic for a while.

There can still be 3D or 2.5D sonic games but Forces was the end result of a rushed development much like 06.

I actually think the best compromise is to have good 2D games and 3D games but again I dont think segas is capable of making good 3D sonic games.

That could change if they somehow got people who actually gives a damn about making an actual 3D game.

With the revolving door of the studio, that could happen but it's still a low chance.

Also I find it hard to believe Forces was rushed when they had 4 years of development and it's no glaring signs of the game being unfinished.

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4 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Well Sonic 06 hasd two mary sues both Silver and Shadow so yeah....

 

Hey if you can arbitrary use the term mary sue so can i :D

(come to think of it I actually think Silver is more of a Mary sue than Rey is if we use all those urban dictionary buggery that people like these days or those real shit mary sue tests that prove nothing)

No you got it wrong. When Men do cool stuff and are competent they're just protagonists. XD

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I hate the term Mary Sure because it's been so misused over the years that it is essentially meaningless, but Rey doesn't actually struggle for anything. She's totally badass and competent right off the bat, as opposed to Luke who's a whiny idiot at the start and grows over time. Nothing inherently wrong with protagonists who are just fucking badass from the getgo, but it's a stupid approach with the type of hero's journey story that Star Wars is meant to be.

Plus Daisy Ridley is a horrible actress. 

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14 minutes ago, Heckboy said:

I hate the term Mary Sure because it's been so misused over the years that it is essentially meaningless, but Rey doesn't actually struggle for anything. She's totally badass and competent right off the bat, as opposed to Luke who's a whiny idiot at the start and grows over time. Nothing inherently wrong with protagonists who are just fucking badass from the getgo, but it's a stupid approach with the type of hero's journey story that Star Wars is meant to be.

Plus Daisy Ridley is a horrible actress. 

Well my defense for Rey is her upbringing, she ad to fend for herself for all her life and that pike she used was a good prototype for a lightsaber.

People bitch about how Rey lacks training, i argue she had more training than Luke did thus why she is so good at fighting in episode VII.

 

As for her powers in the force well its no worse than Anakin, since we dont have the mediclorian handwave this time its possible she is loaded with the stuff.

Actually I think Anakin is a bigger Mary sue and I will be honest I think Hayden Chrtistianson is a far worse actor than Daisy Ridley.

At least in Ridley i can see her potential as a good actress, never got that from Christianson.

Again my comparison to Natalie Portman with her may be spot on as outside of Star Wars Natalie Portman became a rather capable actress.

Star wars always had an issue with clunky dialog and even bad acting.

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27 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well my defense for Rey is her upbringing, she ad to fend for herself for all her life and that pike she used was a good prototype for a lightsaber.

People bitch about how Rey lacks training, i argue she had more training than Luke did thus why she is so good at fighting in episode VII.

 

As for her powers in the force well its no worse than Anakin, since we dont have the mediclorian handwave this time its possible she is loaded with the stuff.

Actually I think Anakin is a bigger Mary sue and I will be honest I think Hayden Chrtistianson is a far worse actor than Daisy Ridley.

At least in Ridley i can see her potential as a good actress, never got that from Christianson.

Again my comparison to Natalie Portman with her may be spot on as outside of Star Wars Natalie Portman became a rather capable actress.

Star wars always had an issue with clunky dialog and even bad acting.

Mannequin Skywalker wasn't using Jedi Mind tricks 20 minutes after learning the Force was a thing, lost his arm in his first sabre fight (despite years of training with actual Jedi no less), at least had a partial explanation for being a decent pilot and was treated with general distrust and suspicion from the cast outside of Space McGregor and Portman.

Rey uses Mind Tricks 20 minutes after learning the Force was a thing, has already owned Kylo Ren in her first fight (oh the suspense for the new film), is an amazing pilot despite never having flown before, knows more about a ship and how to fix it than those who've used it for years, is instantly a crack shot with pistol, everyone that meets her instantly likes her, those that don't she just beats up and then leaves and while most struggle lifting rocks she lifts a several ton cave entrance 1st try. The term Mary Sue is overused and vaguely/widely defined, Rey however is a textbook Sue and the biggest reason there's so much furious arguing over it is through the majority of defenders having made it a gender issue over abysmal writing. TLJ could have done a lot to make her character more grounded but it didn't and saying Star Wars has always had issues doesn't absolve the new characters of theirs.

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1 hour ago, MadmanRB said:

Well my defense for Rey is her upbringing, she ad to fend for herself for all her life and that pike she used was a good prototype for a lightsaber.

People bitch about how Rey lacks training, i argue she had more training than Luke did thus why she is so good at fighting in episode VII.

 

As for her powers in the force well its no worse than Anakin, since we dont have the mediclorian handwave this time its possible she is loaded with the stuff.

Actually I think Anakin is a bigger Mary sue and I will be honest I think Hayden Chrtistianson is a far worse actor than Daisy Ridley.

At least in Ridley i can see her potential as a good actress, never got that from Christianson.

Again my comparison to Natalie Portman with her may be spot on as outside of Star Wars Natalie Portman became a rather capable actress.

Star wars always had an issue with clunky dialog and even bad acting.

Right, might as well have a go at this.

Anakin, when looked at, does not suffer the same sort of problems Rey does.  Sure, in Phantom Menace he seems similar, being a skilled, highly compassionate pilot at age 9 because sciency stuff, but after that, he becomes fairly selfish, arrogant and at times even obsessive.  The big kicker though is that we know what drives him (hell, we know what drives Silver in 06).  Anakin wants to be a Jedi, then a Master, then keeping Padme alive.  For Silver, it's saving his future and for Rey... the hell I know.  She just randomly seems highly invested in the troubles of strangers.  Realistically her background would easily make her closed in and looking out for her own skin first.  Also, at least on a visual scale, Christiansen seems more capable than Ridley and that's with Lucas', shall we say, minimalist direction. 

As for Rey and her training, it's more BS on her part than Luke because you can easily tell that in TLJ she stays with Luke for a couple days, or more, gets no input about lightsaber combat, yet completely owns specially trained bodyguards anyway.  With Luke, it's left more in the air how long he stays on Dagobah, yet he gets wiped around the floor by Vader because, quite frankly, that's better storytelling - keeping the stakes and tension high as a kite.  Certainly makes a better story than Rey cutting up lobster men.

The key problems in play are struggle and investment.  With how astonishingly multi talented Rey is, you have to wonder how the hell she ever stayed on Jakku as a scavenger and not stolen a ship outta there.  The lack of struggle will never give a character much interest, or attention and thus, you lose the investment.  With both Luke and Anakin, you have struggle and investment in plain sight (all right, for the latter it's not quite so well written, but it's there).

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Okay maybe its time to play SJW bingo a bit and see how it goes here is your free space for those playing at home:

maybe we would not have this argument if Rey had a penis..... I mean I gave a good argument on maybe why Rey is so skilled but hey whatever

Sally Acorn has the same issue if you made her a male black hedgehog who rode on a bike and carried a firearm she would be the most popular character in the sonic franchise.

 

I guess thats another thing the Sonic and star wars fans have in common, the term mary sue thrown about because its Tuesday and of course because both are female characters.

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21 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Okay maybe its time to play SJW bingo a bit and see how it goes here is your free space for those playing at home:

maybe we would not have this argument if Rey had a penis..... I mean I gave a good argument on maybe why Rey is so skilled but hey whatever

Sally Acorn has the same issue if you made her a male black hedgehog who rode on a bike and carried a firearm she would be the most popular character in the sonic franchise.

 

I guess thats another thing the Sonic and star wars fans have in common, the term mary sue thrown about because its Tuesday and of course because both are female characters.

You people are so fucking predictable. 

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Just now, Heckboy said:

You people are so fucking predictable. 

Well you are most welcome for the free space on SJW bingo, shall I finish your card?

Luckily SJW bingo is so easy to play, heck even i have fun at it :D

And no not a SJW myself actually, I just like playing SJW bingo now and then.

I play to lose, best way to play really.

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