Sonic Adventure DX To Be Remade?

[JezMM]

If this game was a full blown remake, using the the gameplay engine from Unleashed and the Hedgehog engine for graphics, chance are they they'd also use the same style for cutscenes. Ergo, they'd be pre-recorded FMVs instead of in game.

Unleashed still used in-game cut-scenes. Only the opening, first and last pieces being resorted, and a hand-ful of Dark Gaia related cut-scenes were FMV. In fact, the whole point of the hedgehog engine was so they could have "near-FMV quality" in-game cut-scenes. And hell, if the Wii/PS2 version was released a few years back, you'd think the cut-scenes WERE FMV...

[Blue Blood]

Unleashed still used in-game cut-scenes. Only the opening, first and last pieces being resorted, and a hand-ful of Dark Gaia related cut-scenes were FMV. In fact, the whole point of the hedgehog engine was so they could have "near-FMV quality" in-game cut-scenes. And hell, if the Wii/PS2 version was released a few years back, you'd think the cut-scenes WERE FMV...

Uh, nope. All of the Unleashed cutscenes were pre-recorded. None of them were in-game and they weren't running from a set of character animations like in previous titles. This was done specifically so they would only have to make the cutscenes once, rather than twice for the two different versions of the game. It also meant they could be of higher quality.

[Phos]

Uh, nope. All of the Unleashed cutscenes were pre-recorded. None of them were in-game and they weren't running from a set of character animations like in previous titles. This was done specifically so they would only have to make the cutscenes once, rather than twice for the two different versions of the game. It also meant they could be of higher quality.

The ones in the WiiS2 version were prerecorded, but the ones on the 360/PS3 were in engine. One near the beginning includes a close up of the Werehog causing the frame rate to drop.

[JezMM]

Uh, nope. All of the Unleashed cutscenes were pre-recorded. None of them were in-game and they weren't running from a set of character animations like in previous titles. This was done specifically so they would only have to make the cutscenes once, rather than twice for the two different versions of the game. It also meant they could be of higher quality.

Wha? The Wii and PS2 versions have "FMV" technically as all the cut-scenes are recordings of the 360/PS3 version.

But in the 360/PS3 version, 90% of the cut-scenes are done using the in-game graphics and models. No evidence is needed other than the fact that the cut-scenes require loading screens on 360/PS3, as the envioronment, models, etc etc all need to be loaded like on regular levels. Whereas on Wii/PS2, they load instantly, as it's just a movie file.

EDIT: Phos beat me to it.

Edited September 3, 2009 by JezMM

[Hero of Legend]

Such irony isn't it? You'd think they'd have made the cutscenes pre-recorded in the HD versions in that case. That's quite a score for the Wii and PS2 versions isn't it?

I mean, WHY make them in-game if the payoff is bad, which in this case are the frame drops and the loading screens?

[Phos]

The 360 was the target system, and the lightmaps take up too much space to fit the high resolution videos as well. Would have been nice if they had used pre recorded videos on the PS3 version, the frame rate really drags ass there, but then they wouldn't be able to show off that engine of theirs.

[serpx]

I'm so very, very sure that you're right on the money. However, I hope we get an actual remake. Like Tomb Raider Anniversary, or Pokemon Leaf/Fire/Heart/Soul. I have wanted to see that for quite some time you know.

Do you honestly think SEGA will remake Sonic Adventure? Let's look at the history of SEGA. They'd have better success, and are more likely, to remake a Genesis classic, if anything gets remade.

[Blue Blood]

Do you honestly think SEGA will remake Sonic Adventure? Let's look at the history of SEGA. They'd have better success, and are more likely, to remake a Genesis classic, if anything gets remade.

Huh? I essentially said I don't think we'll get one. I hope we do, but I don't expect it.

[GameFarnsworth940]

If this is real, it better be an enhanced remake, but if it's on Wii, then I'll pass on it. (I already have the shitty GCN port.) On PSP, however, then I might consider it. If it has multiplayer, (maybe online even) then it'd be more likely. If there's that + better animation and new stages, then it would be highly likely to go in my collection.

[JezMM]

I mean, WHY make them in-game if the payoff is bad, which in this case are the frame drops and the loading screens?

I far prefer high-quality, in-game videos to the recorded versions on Wii/PS2. Blatantly recorded movies take me out of the game world a bit personally. I'd rather have EVERY cut-scene use in-game graphics.

Obviously this is a particular case, but the compression on the Wii/PS2 videos makes some beautiful graphics look pretty lame and smudgy too.

On 360 they're as perfect quality as your TV is.

Also, the payoff of in-game cut-scenes is much better for developers. In-game cut-scenes are, essentially, a set of instructions for the character models to follow. Whereas recorded ones are a whole video file. Video files take up much more space than a set of instructions.

Edited September 3, 2009 by JezMM

[Scarlet2106]

While they likely won't upgrade SA, there is still a possibility. They did for Outrun 2006's Live Arcade release.

[TheSoulPurge]

Please be a DS port.

[eXtaticus]

If this game was a full blown remake, using the the gameplay engine from Unleashed and the Hedgehog engine for graphics, chance are they they'd also use the same style for cutscenes. Ergo, they'd be pre-recorded FMVs instead of in game.

The gameplay engine from Sonic Unleashed? Are you mad?

In terms of gameplay, Unleashed was a gutless piece of yanky shit with a penchant for unplayability, and I'm not just referring to the shite werehog stages now, either; even in its daytime state, the game was so poorly designed and horrificaly programmed that even I - one of the most ardent Sonic fans on this site - traded it in.

In my eyes, just thinking about using the Unleashed gameplay engine in a Sonic Adventure remake is an insult to the original game, though it does need a graphics update. Maybe not using the pathetically bad and derivative Disney-stylised Hedgehog Engine, but rather the brilliant graphics from Sonic 06; now that was a real next-gen style, not a hideous cartoon-esque pile of dogshit.

Personally, I believe that Sega could port SA from the excellent Dreamcast version, albeit with 1080HD resolution support and a silky-smooth frame rate, but we're talking about a company who not only have an inability to leave a franchise in one piece, but also enjoy picking apart old classics, and that usually end in disaster; just look at the mutated mess that was Sonic Adventure DX - both fouled and fucked up!

[Aquaslash]

The gameplay engine from Sonic Unleashed? Are you mad?

In terms of gameplay, Unleashed was a gutless piece of yanky shit with a penchant for unplayability, and I'm not just referring to the shite werehog stages now, either; even in its daytime state, the game was so poorly designed and horrificaly programmed that even I - one of the most ardent Sonic fans on this site - traded it in.

Why does the term "unpleaseable fanbase" come into mind after reading this?

Did you have the Wii version, or did I get an excellent copy or something? I thought it was quite playable. Daytime Sonic was probably the best there's been since Adventure 2, and probably the best there's been. But that's just me

[Blue Blood]

The gameplay engine from Sonic Unleashed? Are you mad?

Are you stupid? Engines can be modified. Sonic Adventure 2 was built from a modified Sonic Adventure. The engine used in Unleashed would be changed accordingly to accommodate the slower and more precise gameplay of Adventure. I love Unleashed, but the loose controls, high acceleration and gameplay based on going as fast as you can go has no place in any previous 3D titles.

The Unleashed engine is far more stable than the ones used previously. Like it or not, it was far less buggy.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Blue Blood

[eXtaticus]

Why does the term "unpleaseable fanbase" come into mind after reading this?

Did you have the Wii version, or did I get an excellent copy or something? I thought it was quite playable. Daytime Sonic was probably the best there's been since Adventure 2, and probably the best there's been. But that's just me

The XBox 360 version was by far the least annoying, and that was the version that I owned - the collision detection: horrible, the music: an ear-shatter symphony of shite, and the level design? Let's just say that it was average at best; the only level that was really worth playing was completely present and correct in the demo, albeit with no support for Boost Dash upgrades. Although, Sonic Unleashed swapped for The Orange Box seemed like a good enough deal for me, so I snapped it up as soon as I could (and if you don't like Portal, you are obliged to kill youself in as painful way as humanly possible).

Oh yes, and calling me "unpleasable" seems a bit much; I argue my points validly, and have a inexplicable love for Sonic '06, so check your facts before insulting me.

[JezMM]

Lol, Extaticus, you go so drama-queeny about Unleashed it's hard to take you seriously. Especially when you then compare it to 2006, or call SA:DX absoloutely awful when it was hardly changed at all.

I'm not saying your opinion is invalid, but you'll need a pretty detailed description on what was wrong with Unleashed and what was right with 2006 before your arguement makes sense.

I mean, Unleashed, too cartooney? Sonic's design himself is far more comparable to Mickey Mouse or a Pixar character than to... I dunno. What's the "boring realistic humans that animate like spazzes"' equivilant to Mickey Mouse?

[FeathersMcGraw]

The whole "Sonic is too cartoony" thing always seems pretty silly to me, considering he shares a lot of his design, and quite a few of his traits with one Felix the Cat (running around loops and curling into a ball off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure he did the foot tapping thing as well) and numerous other classic cartoon characters, Sonic was always intended to be a homage to Classic Western animation, this doesn't mean he can't incorporate choice elements from other genres (some have worked over the years, others have not), but complaining about a character who was very much rooted in classic animation being too cartoony is slightly absurd.

Obviously a lot of it comes down to personal taste, but you might as well be complaining about a restaurant for being too food-orientated. A game focused on the life of a faux-cartoon character and his pals is inevitably going to incorporate cartoon elements (as Sonic is ultimately one himself).

On a slightly less OT note, I can't really say I'm looking forward to this. SA was very enjoyable at the time but it really hasn't aged well. Unless it was remade or refined (which it won’t be, surely SEGA would give the game a different title if this were the case to differentiate it from previous releases and capitalise on it?), I can't see it being all that flattering.

Edited September 4, 2009 by FeathersMcGraw

[eXtaticus]

Are you stupid? Engines can be modified. Sonic Adventure 2 was built from a modified Sonic Adventure. The engine used in Unleashed would be changed accordingly to accommodate the slower and more precise gameplay of Adventure. I love Unleashed, but the loose controls, high acceleration and gameplay based on going as fast as you can go has no place in any previous 3D titles.

The Unleashed engine is far more stable than the ones used previously. Like it or not, it was far less buggy.

I mourn the loss of decent engines in Sonic titles; not only have the graphical styles been going downhill since Sonic Heroes (I blame the black lump of shit that they call the PS2 for Sega having to use the disgreaceful Renderware engine - if only the damned thing was DirectX compatible), but gameplay has also been deteriorating at an incredibely fast rate. Luckily for me, Sonic '06 was an excellent high-point in both areas for various reasons - the superb super-speed stages and gorgeous graphics merely scrape the surfce - but not everyone was appreciative of the game's brilliance; I have been taunted time and time again by many an ignorant user on this site, which is just a testimony to the awful taste in games that people have nowadays.

I was beginning to think that the series was on the rise back to stardom... but all hopes were dashed with the idiotic closure of Sonic Team USA and the release of Sonic Unleashed, which I have criticised on countless occasions, and therefore will not do so again. All further verbal assault will take place on a future topic - WHICH I WILL NOT BE MAKING ANYTIME SOON.

I hope that I've cleared up my reasons for rage ventilation, and bid you good day!

Lol, Extaticus, you go so drama-queeny about Unleashed it's hard to take you seriously. Especially when you then compare it to 2006, or call SA:DX absoloutely awful when it was hardly changed at all.

You've read my previous posts then?

Seriously, if any of you actually TOOK IN what I was saying and didn't pass me off as some bitchy, whiney, IGN-esque modern-Sonic hater, then we wouldn't have such a huge problem with misunderstandings.

PS: I love it when people call me by my name... I'm not vein, it's just that there's some form of smug pride when another user types my username in their post - but maybe that's just another of my wierd and whacky whims...

[JezMM]

You've read my previous posts then?

Seriously, if any of you actually TOOK IN what I was saying and didn't pass me off as some bitchy, whiney, IGN-esque modern-Sonic hater, then we wouldn't have such a huge problem with misunderstandings.

I'm not passing you off as anything, as said, if you hate Unleashed and love 2006 that's fine.

I just don't get your reasoning, like, at all. 2006 had tons of glitches and Unleashed didn't. I don't understand what problems you encountered that I apparently didn't, and vice verca for 2006.

I mean, take the mach speed sections on 2006. You love 'em, I don't.

- You can only jump in a straight line, adding tons of unnecessary difficulty (and completely illogical since Sonic has always had flexible jumps elsewhere)

- ANYTHING hurts you, which while intentional I understand - again makes no sense from the game world's perspective (Sonic has never been injured for running into stuff before), but also again can be unneccesarily difficult in instances such as the falling cars on Crisis City, where debris flies EVERYWHERE randomly. The only way you could truly predict and avoid these obstacles is with not only extreme memorisation but also learning the way the physics system works.

- And finally you can't say 2006 is without some bad design. The first jump zipper on the Wave Ocean mach speed section has a 50% chance of landing me ON the bridge it passes over causing Sonic to die as a result of a measly wooden fence that you can't jump over after he gets caught in it. And the very final loop, if you don't hit it on the left hand side, Sonic misses the final zipper and you go flying straight into the water.

These are cold hard facts, what do you say really makes up for these glitches?

And what glitches do you get in Unleashed (that everyone else apparently doesn't) that makes it buggier than 2006 in your eyes?

I imagine you've had people ask you this before, in which case I apologise, but, argh, it racks my brain to understand what you see that I don't if you don't be absoloutely precise.

(Also, I apologise if I ever sound annoyed with you - that's only a result of you usually being "Secret Rings and Unleashed are shit, and everyone must have awful taste in games to like these etc etc". You come off as really elitist and closed minded. You can say "I really hate Secret Rings and Unleashed etc" but it's just annoying when people talk about their opinion as if it's fact...).

Edited September 4, 2009 by JezMM

[RainbowLizard]

In terms of this remake business, hasn't Nintendo recently been releasing a shitload of old gamecube 'classics' such as Pikmin and the original Resident Evil on the Wii as 'New Game Control' stuff? What's to say they're not doing this stuff with Sonic Adventure? Pardon me if this wasn't mentioned before.

[JezMM]

In terms of this remake business, hasn't Nintendo recently been releasing a shitload of old gamecube 'classics' such as Pikmin and the original Resident Evil on the Wii as 'New Game Control' stuff? What's to say they're not doing this stuff with Sonic Adventure? Pardon me if this wasn't mentioned before.

Well, that's true, but it'd be SEGA's call, not Nintendo's. I wouldn't be surprised really though, of all Sonic's games, Adventure would be the most compatible with waggle for all the masses, thanks to the many gameplay styles.

[Blue Blood]

Amy's hammer, Big's fishing rod, targetting with Gamma, initiating the homing attack as Sonic. They all sound like typical tacked on Wii controls, aside from Gamma who could actually see some use.

[Yong]

Amy's hammer, Big's fishing rod, targetting with Gamma, initiating the homing attack as Sonic. They all sound like typical tacked on Wii controls, aside from Gamma who could actually see some use.

No. Just no. It would slow down his gameplay way too much. Many times I would end up targeting something that was off-screen.

[Legendary Emerald]

Just based on his last post in this topic, I agree with Extaticus in every way except for the mach speed sections. The Crisis City speed section was pure and utter shit, and the other speed sections have at least one area where you can die for no good reason.

There's probably something of a 99.9% chance that all this "new" Sonic Adventure will be is a port. But if for some reason it turns out to be a remake of my second favorite Sonic game ever (Sonic 1 for genesis being 1st) then I will jizz in my pants uncontrollably for three hours straight.

But yeah, Sonic 2006 rules and Sonic Unleashed is the unholy spawn of Satan and a rottweiler. I'm down with that.