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Detective Kaito

Try and Predict What the Next Main Sonic Game Will Be Like

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Man, we have no idea what to expect with this company. Sonic Team's leadership (beneath Iizuka) is always revolving, their idea of what Sonic ought to be keeps changing, and their standards of quality are seemingly inconsistent. The best game under their namesakes' title in the past 5 years wasn't even made by them, and who knows how that board meeting went. 

Sonic's future under Sonic Team was a toss-up before, and it'll be a toss-up now. All you can do is enjoy the chaos at this point. 

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It was actually pretty easy to predict that they'd return to the boost after Lost World. When the initial Forces trailer came out and we saw all that cool shit at the start and then the smack upside the head that was the "reveal" of Classic Sonic, thoughts of Generations 2 rang about the net in a way that should have clued everyone else in as well. It still didn't stop some people from being surprised (or upset) when Modern Sonic gameplay revealed that the boost was indeed back. I guess people were just really holding out hope that it wouldn't be true. For some reason.

Predicting what they'll do after Forces feels like it'd be a tad bit tricker. The thing clouding my thoughts on it, is Mania and how well that did for them. They still have that accolades picture on their twitter account. Mania was given so much attention long after it's release. It got a selection of shorts. It got a PLUS version with two new characters added. The fact that they continued doing things for it up to the point of including Amy for the holiday short at the end of last year speaks volumes to how aware they were of it's positive reception.

I bring up the reception because when you look at Forces, despite the fact that it supposedly sold well, you don't really see much from it anywhere now. It really does feel like they were done caring about that game the instant it dropped. I don't know how much of that is "shame" versus just making sure Mania gets all the attention in comparison but it doesn't seem like they're proud of that game at all. You'd think Infinite would be something they'd push a bit more after his introduction but... no. Here's Zavok yet again. Remember him from that Wii U game? I mean... I guess Infinite got into Smash as a Spirit.

MOST LIKELY, though... it will just be more of the same. If I had to put money on it, I think they'll just stick to the boost. We'll have stages that are somehow even more linear than before. The assets that were actually new in Forces will get reused again. The outdated character models they've been using since fucking 2008 will... STILL be there. Looking like the most unappealing thing ever. 

God, it REALLY stood out in Forces just how much those models sucked. I'm actually being reminded of those cheap 3D renders on Deviantart, looking at them. Their movement is so unnatural and weird. Not as bad as it was in 06 but goodness me. How sad is it that these cartoon characters don't feel like they're being animated?

When it comes to stuff that isn't gameplay though, I'm actually really interested in finding out what they'll do next. I've never been SO interested in seeing what they could possibly have in store on the story front for us because... it's clear they're out of ideas. 

They have none left.

Falling on the idea of Eggman finally taking over the world and turning it into the most boring story campaign since Generations leaves them with very little to impress now. Will they say "Fuck it" and just give us a typical "Go and stop Eggman" story? Or will they try and be weird again and push something like Lost World only this time it's actually in Space. Again. Because that's what the series needs. Even MORE fucking aliens. 

Whatever we can do to make sure you NEVER, EVER play as Tails in another mainstream 3D Sonic game again.

EVER.

You ask for it and they'll pull a Don Mattrick and say to stick with Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric.

 

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36 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

And if it does?

It'll be a boring remake of a game we've all played a million times.

I thought people were fed up with Sonic nostalgia bait. 

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2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

And what about the newer people who HAVEN'T played it?

What about the newer people who've never played the levels which appeared in Generations. That game is nearly ten years old.

Why not just have Seaside Hill, Sky Sanctuary and Chemical Plant again.

We could be here all day.

Additionally, Sonic Adventure is a bad game, not much point in remaking something naff when you could have something new.

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The difference with a Sonic Adventure Remake is that it's an entirely other direction for Sonic and I don't think people expect them to remake the game 1:1 but, instead, do a re-imagining like with Resident Evil 2 Remake.

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14 minutes ago, Plasme said:

What about the newer people who've never played the levels which appeared in Generations. That game is nearly ten years old.

Why not just have Seaside Hill, Sky Sanctuary and Chemical Plant again.

We could be here all day.

Additionally, Sonic Adventure is a bad game, not much point in remaking something naff when you could have something new.

It sounds less like an actual problem and more you just have something personal against Sonic Adventure for whatever reason. I don't really care whether you like it or not, but you're going to need a more compelling reason than that to convince me it's a "bad" idea on principle. 

And I'm speaking as somebody that understands that it would likely be a very piss poor product under current Sonic Team anyway. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

I bring up the reception because when you look at Forces, despite the fact that it supposedly sold well, you don't really see much from it anywhere now. It really does feel like they were done caring about that game the instant it dropped. I don't know how much of that is "shame" versus just making sure Mania gets all the attention in comparison but it doesn't seem like they're proud of that game at all.

There was some sort of Eggman Empire propaganda thing someone posted a while back, but that's about it to my knowledge.

Probably for the better.

1 hour ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

You'd think Infinite would be something they'd push a bit more after his introduction but... no. Here's Zavok yet again. Remember him from that Wii U game? I mean... I guess Infinite got into Smash as a Spirit.

It's likely because Infinite was intentionally made in a way that also guaranteed he'd be really hard if not implausible to bring back.

The real surprise would be if he somehow is.

52 minutes ago, StellarBlur said:

The difference with a Sonic Adventure Remake is that it's an entirely other direction for Sonic and I don't think people expect them to remake the game 1:1 but, instead, do a re-imagining like with Resident Evil 2 Remake.

That actually sounds like it could be an interesting choice.

 

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If the Sonic Team of today had the ability to remake Sonic Adventure and do it in a way that would please people, improve upon what was outdated about it, stay true to the spirit of what it originally was, and refine it so that it was a game that could be reasonably impressive for a game coming out in 2019 and beyond... than I'd tell them to take that talent and focus it on making an impressive, original Sonic game instead. 

Because if they have the talent to do all that, then why aren't they making anything good when they aren't focusing on remakes right now? 

 

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23 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

If the Sonic Team of today had the ability to remake Sonic Adventure and do it in a way that would please people, improve upon what was outdated about it, stay true to the spirit of what it originally was, and refine it so that it was a game that could be reasonably impressive for a game coming out in 2019 and beyond... than I'd tell them to take that talent and focus it on making an impressive, original Sonic game instead. 

Because if they have the talent to do all that, then why aren't they making anything good when they aren't focusing on remakes right now? 

 

To be perfectly honest; I would definitely be more open to a Sonic Adventure remake than a new game entirely. At least with a remake, you have an idea on what to expect, even if things won't necessarily turn out that way. 

A new game however would require a TON of good will that simply does not exist right now. Yea, the same can be said for a Sonic Adventure remake, but you at least understand what you're getting with the latter. A new game would mean having to put faith in a potential new gimmick and setting and I can say with certainty that I have no real faith in anything new or gimmicky from this series.

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42 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Whatever it is, it probably won't appeal to me at all.

No it isn't.

Yeaaaah, about 1 quarter of it is actually good TBH... 

A remake like Resi 2 would be the best option, clean all the bad and boring stuff. Which would let us with... basically just Sonic's story 🤔

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If I had to take a stab in the dark, it'll probably be a game that tries its damnedest to distance itself completely from Forces. The old "throw everything out with the kitchen sink because it's not like the game had any good ideas right?!?" approach and try to "emulate" Mania. The only thing I can see it keeping from Forces is the engine (more on that later) and the gameplay being more 2D than 3D. It'll have little to no narrative effort to speak of (especially if Pontaff are involved which they probably will be), and it'll be relegated to only the usual suspects in terms of characters (probably not even Knuckles or Amy). The gameplay itself will probably be slow, clunky, overall just not fun nor engaging, and try its hardest to be a generic platformer rather than a Sonic game. It'll then all be wrapped in an already obsolete engine with an art style that'll probably lean more towards the classics just because Mania; while still looking worse than what will, at that point, be the 11 year+ old game that is Unleashed.

So basically a game that tries to emulate Mania but only at a surface level and will probably just wind up being more like an LW sequel at the end of the day. That or a remake of Sonic Adventure which probably won't be all that good either (though I will say that it'd probably be the safer option imo).

 

I really wish that I wasn't this pessimistic but 2017 just didn't leave me with anything in the tank in that department so I honestly can't be bothered at this point. Even with ST being the revolving door of the gaming industry, I doubt new blood and/ or a new direction is actually going to help them improve in any meaningful way. I could very easily be completely wrong with my prediction here (more or less for the same reasons others have stated in regards to trying to predict something like this) but yet it'll still probably be a mediocre to bad game because ST simply doesn't know how to follow through on anything these days.

The only positive thing I can at least see happening is us getting Tee, Jun, and the gang back for the soundtrack because that'd be an easy, no-brainer move.

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1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

To be perfectly honest; I would definitely be more open to a Sonic Adventure remake than a new game entirely. At least with a remake, you have an idea on what to expect, even if things won't necessarily turn out that way. 

A new game however would require a TON of good will that simply does not exist right now. Yea, the same can be said for a Sonic Adventure remake, but you at least understand what you're getting with the latter. A new game would mean having to put faith in a potential new gimmick and setting and I can say with certainty that I have no real faith in anything new or gimmicky from this series.

That doesn't really matter to me. Faith and good will? I don't care. That's already gone. Which game might have more of it doesn't matter. 

They either have the ability to make a good game or they don't. What you're talking about affects the way people might feel about the game when it's announced and aren't impressed by the footage they see leading up to release. 

However, at the end of the day, how good the game is the only thing that matters. If they can't make good games now, then they can't make a good Adventure remake either. 

An "idea" of what to expect would probably just leave you more open to being disappointed when Sonic Team does the Sonic Team Shuffle and fucks it up anyway. 

 

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I feel like any proper guesstimation of the next game is not about what the game will feature, but rather who will be making it. 

We know theres really no "Sonic Team" anymore. So personally, I will get my hopes up if Yuji Naka, or Christian Whitehead, or anyone like that who understands the original gameplay is around to help guide the project, even if they are not the actual workhorses. If it's yet again a revolving door of people with no vision, then we cant predict because the game could be of any quality, whether good or absolutely terrible.

 

I'd personally like a SA1 remake that does more than justice to the original; one that actually fixes the gameplay issues so that there is something to build on going forward. But If I'm honest, I think it's more likely that the hedgehog engine is reused in this scenario, and we get a boost style adventure game. I'm fine with the boost titles, but I'm more craving an excellent 3D sonic platformer, so that would disappoint me at least from this angle.

 

I actually think the game has a much better chance of being good if it's an SA1 remake rather than SA3. Them making SA3 anytime soon despite not having developed and tested a proper gameplay would probably be a disaster. SA1 gives them a chance to think carefully about what they originally were after, and fine tune it rather than jump back into a style they havent touched in over a decade and probably get it all wrong.

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I'd be surprised if the next game didn't backtrack to the boost formula in more of a follow up to the Generations model. It'll likely feature more set-piece moments (taken right out of Forces) but with a different director at the helm it won't be held back for the sake of accessibility. We should get a step in the right direction following Forces two steps back in that regard.

I think they will finally see the writing on the wall and leave Classic Sonic at home - but I also predict they will find some way to include 2D specific stages. Maybe as bonus stages or emerald challenges.

The kicker here is predicting the gimmick. It'll have to be something right up front and present. Thanks to all the bad karma dogging the devs, it'll also need to be something that sells itself. No one is going to want to put any faith in something new. I imagine it'll almost have to be a second playable character. If I had to guess, I'd say Shadow with an emphasis on his Chaos Powers.

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56 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

That doesn't really matter to me. Faith and good will? I don't care. That's already gone. Which game might have more of it doesn't matter. 

They either have the ability to make a good game or they don't. What you're talking about affects the way people might feel about the game when it's announced and aren't impressed by the footage they see leading up to release. 

However, at the end of the day, how good the game is the only thing that matters. If they can't make good games now, then they can't make a good Adventure remake either. 

An "idea" of what to expect would probably just leave you more open to being disappointed when Sonic Team does the Sonic Team Shuffle and fucks it up anyway. 

 

Well I'm mostly speaking personally here. 

 

In your case, it really doesn't matter what they do as we're all basically resigned to it being a mediocre product at the end of the day. 

16 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I'd be surprised if the next game didn't backtrack to the boost formula in more of a follow up to the Generations model. It'll likely feature more set-piece moments (taken right out of Forces) but with a different director at the helm it won't be held back for the sake of accessibility. We should get a step in the right direction following Forces two steps back in that regard.

I think they will finally see the writing on the wall and leave Classic Sonic at home - but I also predict they will find some way to include 2D specific stages. Maybe as bonus stages or emerald challenges.

The kicker here is predicting the gimmick. It'll have to be something right up front and present. Thanks to all the bad karma dogging the devs, it'll also need to be something that sells itself. No one is going to want to put any faith in something new. I imagine it'll almost have to be a second playable character. If I had to guess, I'd say Shadow with an emphasis on his Chaos Powers.

So...Forces, but with another coat of paint. 

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22 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So...Forces, but with another coat of paint. 

I wouldn't say that. Forces took development cues from Colors (same guy was in charge after all). The next game is going to recoil away from that. There is a huge difference conceptually in how Colors and Unleashed approached boost gameplay, so a simple change in mindset from the onset will make a large difference.

We won't see the micro-stage approach, 3D will have slightly more aspiration to it and the game will not rely so heavily on basic block platforming. Sonic Team tries new things all the time, but when they inevitably stub their toes, they almost always fall back on what was last perceived as good.

 

As a bonus, I also could see a return of a re-worked parkour system. I think it fits the franchise and they won't want to let that go without taking another stab at it. Even if it isn't as central to the gameplay as it was in Lost World. The wall running in particular is a valuable asset as tangible 3D platforming in a series where they struggle to scrape up ideas for 3D platforming.

My main thing is Sonic Team likely won't be able to sell us on anything new. Unless the introductory game-play footage melts-faces - its going to be met with extremly sharp pessimism. Even if they rolled out a momentum based concept, our likely response will probably be closer to "no way they can pull this off" than "we'll its about time". I predict S Team will fall back on things we've seen before - done better - with a flashy coat of paint.

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5 hours ago, Plasme said:

It'll be a boring remake of a game we've all played a million times.

I thought people were fed up with Sonic nostalgia bait. 

It’s more of a “When’s OUR branch of Sonic going to get a turn?” sort of thing. 

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This is actually the first time in a very very long time where I haven't a clue what they're going to do.

between the shift to the US for the 'Sonic Hub' all the re-structuring in Japan, the fact Forces didn't do as well as they wanted and Mania so blatantly shook up their plans.

Like... When they saw Mania... and saw how it was received... I would loved to have been in the room of Sonic Team when they had their debriefing.

 

The only thing at the moment I'd like to try and predict is if it's going to be a cross gen title given how the PS5 is likely coming in 2020 and several devs have hinted their next projects are cross gen.

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I think they'll carry on with the boost gameplay but they've gotta up the game on level design and length. Forces levels were embarrassingly short compared to say Unleashed's day time stages.

Having said that though I've got a feeling they could possibly go back down the classic sonic route with a 'Mania' type game maybe. Mania did so well that they can't ignore the fact there's a massive audience for that type of game.

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14 hours ago, Joy said:

See I'm still waiting to see with the next game because Forces I feel was too set in stone when the new CEO stepped in and started talking about fan trust for them to really do much. Mania feels like the first Sonic game to be a product of SEGA's change in direction and I imagine went into full production close enough to the new CEO's arrival to reap the benefits. TSR certainly feels a little bit safe with roster and tracks but they've clearly got enough faith in it to not only bother delaying it, but also putting it up alongside Crash which is no doubt going to be stiff competition when that launches not long after TSR.

I can completely understand why fans would be pessimistic after Forces but I'm actually willing to believe they took a backseat for a bit, the difference in reception between Forces and Mania is probably too big for them to ignore. Fans have been burned too many times but with SEGA's generally solid performance outside Sonic in the past few years, the quality of Mania and the newly established Sonic hub at SOA I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until a reveal.  

And this is also @StellarBlur

Now I can definitely see where you're both coming from with this. TSR's lengthy delay I'd still rather pin on the game being way too unfinished in 2018 and and SEGA  wanting to flesh out their 2019 Sonic offerings, but it could have been a couple months instead of almost half a year is they weren't serious about it. Putting it up against CTR doesn't really mean a lot though.

Hopefully, hopefully Forces was a leftover from before there was a shift in focus and direction for the brand and it's quality. Sonic is now back at SEGA America, which  I can only hope is a positive sign. Mania was recieved unlike any other Sonic game since the DC days and showed that Sonic can still be a hit. That was probably news to SEGA and as @Mayor D said, probably shook them pretty hard.

Guess we'll just have to see...

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10 hours ago, Strickerx5 said:

 

The only positive thing I can at least see happening is us getting Tee, Jun, and the gang back for the soundtrack because that'd be an easy, no-brainer move.

Seriously can we just make them to go to for Sonic music now? Tomoya has long passed the point of running out of steam and Forces/SLW being his most recent work and the weakest main titles music wise tells me he's dried up creatively and needs a break while others step in 

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