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Detective Kaito

Try and Predict What the Next Main Sonic Game Will Be Like

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6 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Seriously can we just make them to go to for Sonic music now? Tomoya has long passed the point of running out of steam and Forces/SLW being his most recent work and the weakest main titles music wise tells me he's dried up creatively and needs a break while others step in 

YES. Ya know, Tomoya is actually fucking great, but they can't lay ALL the work on him, he's been on this since SA2. Sonic soundtracks are better when it's made by a team, not a single man. Colors was IMO the last memorable soundtrack in recent time, save Mania. Colors had a ton of composers. Same goes to Unleashed. Just get the whole gang back again and add Tee.

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Yikes, a lot of pessimism here.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what it'll exactly be like. Maybe they'll keep the Boost, but as Eurisko said, they've gotta improve on the level design and length. Forces could have been better received if its design and length was really akin to that of Generations (Say what you will about Gens, but I still think it had a decent length overall). 

I really hope that disbanding Sonic Team, SEGA restructuring, and making America (or the West in general) the new hub for Sonic changes more things for the games. Mania was a great step in the right direction (at least for 2D Sonic), and TSR looks like it's going to be a fun, solid racer, and I do think we'll eventually see more games with that kind of quality. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt until something about the next main Sonic game drops.

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3 hours ago, Soniman said:

Seriously can we just make them to go to for Sonic music now? Tomoya has long passed the point of running out of steam and Forces/SLW being his most recent work and the weakest main titles music wise tells me he's dried up creatively and needs a break while others step in 

Ohtani is great. For whatever reason though, his sound direction in Lost World and Forces left so much to be desired. He spoke in an interview recently about how he chose the synths for Forces in purpose because they sounded more urgent and dire, befitting the time of the world. I don't disagree, honest. But the problems with that soundtrack as a whole are many, and we're all noticing a trend between recent Ohtani-directed soundtracks and lackluster final products. I kinda just don't think he should direct the soundtracks, and when he does he needs to have a larger team on board. The best Sonic soundtracks historically have a variety of artists all contributing a lot.

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Something I'd like to see is kind of a mix of gameplay styles. Base would be kinda like Adventure but there could be sections for Boost and maybe a bit if the Parkour of Lost World. 

I think that'd be a perfect balance of Sonic playstyles myself. 

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

You don't make a good game by just throwing everything in a big heap.

Kingdom Hearts 3 literally incorporated several elements from throughout the series but ok.

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2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

A series iterating on its ideas is different from "well here's a bunch of stuff that didn't work; maybe it'd work if we mash it all together?"

The Adventure and Boost formulas worked for a fair while, though.

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25 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Kingdom Hearts 3 literally incorporated several elements from throughout the series but ok.

Not sure why you'd bring up Kingdom Hearts 3 as an example of good execution, considering I've heard very few good things about that game ever since it released.

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12 minutes ago, Legendary Emerald said:

Not sure why you'd bring up Kingdom Hearts 3 as an example of good execution, considering I've heard very few good things about that game ever since it released.

I would assume it's only because of it not being that difficult. Which is sorta true, but also not in places.

And even then, they're patching in another difficulty to address that.

 

Also, the conclusive story.

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giphy.gif

I'm honestly a little bit bored of the notion that Sonic games being a patchwork of diverse playstyles / game mechanics working in concert is an untested concept that the designers should take a crack at for the next game. The concept sums up how the vast majority of 3D games have been made, including the last 3D Sonic that was released. And the last 3D Sonic game had this "new idea" in spades.

You know what would be genuinely exciting for me? A new 3D Sonic that decided to pick one gameplay style, and actually build a coherent and focused game around it for once.

EDIT: But with that said, I forgot which thread I'm in. I think those are are hoping for a new Sonic game that "mixes" things together are going to get their wish anyway.

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33 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

What are the odds of a playable Amy in the next 2D Sonic? After the Christmas short, I thought her appearance was impending.

We old gamers have daughters, y'know.

I don't know why she wasn't in Plus as a sixth character.

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1 hour ago, Milo said:

giphy.gif

I'm honestly a little bit bored of the notion that Sonic games being a patchwork of diverse playstyles / game mechanics working in concert is an untested concept that the designers should take a crack at for the next game. The concept sums up how the vast majority of 3D games have been made, including the last 3D Sonic that was released. And the last 3D Sonic game had this "new idea" in spades.

You know what would be genuinely exciting for me? A new 3D Sonic that decided to pick one gameplay style, and actually build a coherent and focused game around it for once.

This.^^^

 

Although I do want to see a return to 3D platforming Sonic next (finally executed well), I hope the boost doesn't get tossed away entirely. I've thought for years now that a Sonic R type game could be built using the boost engine. Seems like the logical conclusion of that hybrid racing style. 

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1 minute ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

This.^^^

 

Although I do want to see a return to 3D platforming Sonic next (finally executed well), I hope the boost doesn't get tossed away entirely. I've thought for years now that a Sonic R type game could be built using the boost engine. Seems like the logical conclusion of that hybrid racing style. 

Isn't that what Speed Battle is?

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I don't have any specific Ideas on what the next title will be, the only thing we have to go on in that regard is the Adventure remake rumors and those speak for themselves. They either will or they won't.

Still, we know some things that can be used to make guesses. Sonic Mania did well both commercially and critically while Forces only really did well commercially (and not even anything mind blowing). We know that "Sonic Team" isn't really a thing anymore (though what that actually means is unclear as of yet). We know of at least one art director from older games has returned (though what that actually means, if anything, is again unclear).

 

Odds are pretty good that they're going to want to distance the next game from Forces, at least to some extent. It's not as widely panned as something like 06 but it looks REALLY bad in comparison to Mania. I don't know how they're going to interpret the success of Mania, if they're going to shoehorn in Classic Sonic for the sake of pandering or if they'll actually take the right lessons (just make a good Sonic game jesus fucking christ) from it.  Maybe Nishiyama's return means there'll be a more cohesive art direction for the next game but that's just a wild guess. 

Personally, I hope the next game IS an Adventure remake (only if they go full Crash and Spyro trilogies and fix up EVERYTHING that could be fixed) but as for what I THINK is gonna happen? It's really up in the air. I'm going back and forth between extreme optimism and pessimism. On the one hand, maybe Mania gave them an Idea of the direction they should be heading. On the other hand, Forces is s pretty good example of how they've utterly ruined good Ideas in the past (Eggman has conquered the world, chaos, shadow, metal sonic, and uh...zavok are seemingly back as enemies, why is so little of that relevant or an outright lie? I could go on about the mishandled premise of Forces but I'll stop here). Do I think an Adventure remake would be the BEST move for them to make? Well that depends on how good a remake it would be. Did they fix Big's gameplay? The camera? Collision? Cutscenes? Signposting for levels? Acting? Voice direction? If we assume they'll do Adventure justice I'd say it might be the best direction for them to go if only because it's a known quantity. Assuming they can get it right it's a relatively safe bet. People already love Adventure. That fondness is less consistent than I remember it being growing up but it DOES still exist. A new game might theoretically wind up better but it also might be as mediocre or worse than Forces. Then again, if they botched an Adventure remake it would tank basically all trust or hope any Adventure holdouts had for the series going forward. Basically any move I can see them making comes with a pretty big risk attached.

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15 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Jeez sorry for trying to share an idea. I thought that's what this topic was about. Won't make that mistake again. 

Speaking for myself, my comment wasn't really about being offended or trying to shame anybody for the idea. I just think mixing playstyles is something that's been done plenty of times already. I just don't agree with it, that's all.

Besides, as I alluded to in my last post--a Sonic game mixing together different playstyles is honestly something I would expect Sonic Team to do by this point, in light of what the thread topic is about. So I think you're going to get a Sonic game that does mix playstyles together in one game; although I don't believe it will be in the way you'll want it.

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1 hour ago, Spooky Mulder said:

I suspect Mania's reception has had an effect on the direction of the overall series. If I'm wrong....lol 

There is no real reason to expect Mania's success to really shake down the core or the 3D games all too much... outside of basic expectations. Sonic Team has since doubled down on the divide between Modern and Classic, so its not like Mania all of a sudden is going to change the course of the franchise and leave the 3D games behind. It may well create a 2D offshoot (where did all the handheld games go?) but I can't foresee a huge effect on 3D productions - particularly considering that different teams develop all this stuff.

 

...

 

Still waiting on Sonic Rush 3DS by the way...

 

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I really do feel like this period of waiting between games is the most... unknown we've had in quite a long time though. I'm actually really not sure of what the direction will be despite throwing that prediction that it'll just be more of the same out there. Mania really did throw everything out of whack. 

If I recall those old interviews correctly, they were kind of banking on Forces being one of those games that helped get Sonic's reception back on track. Why they thought it would do that, I'm not sure. I guess they either hoped everyone was stupid or they themselves just truly didn't know that what Forces was would largely be deemed unacceptable. However, things panned out differently and Mania ended up being the heavy hitter.

I also recall sentiments saying that they wished to incorporate what translated into Mania's success into their stuff going forward. I remember my reaction to that being "I hope that doesn't just mean making sure 3D Sonic has even more 2D in it".

And then someone else brought up the restructuring going on over there. Plus, I don't even know if the next Sonic game was being worked on before or after all this was even being considered. This is also on top of the fact that I have no clue what possible story ideas they could scrape the bottom of the barrel for now. They did the thing you do when you're out of ideas (and failed at it) so now I'm just at a loss.

I probably should just expect it to be the same regardless of all this stuff but this is an interesting position we're in, regardless. I can't help but feel things should be more open to speculation I guess.

 

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2 hours ago, Plasme said:

I think Lost World has some great tracks though. Windy Hill, the rail kart tracks, the final boss, the deadly six theme. I think the sound track's pretty good.

Same here. Plus Honeycomb Highway, Zor's Tango, Dance of the Dragoons, and Zavok's Theme.

I think people were quick to dismiss things in that game because of the Mario similarities.

27 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

If I recall those old interviews correctly, they were kind of banking on Forces being one of those games that helped get Sonic's reception back on track. Why they thought it would do that, I'm not sure. I guess they either hoped everyone was stupid or they themselves just truly didn't know that what Forces was would largely be deemed unacceptable. However, things panned out differently and Mania ended up being the heavy hitter.

 

There was a statement/rumor a while back claiming the actual level design and other production was actually being done a year before it released. So it's entirely possible the game they envisioned simply ended up in the hands of three relative newcomers due to whatever shakeups were going on.

Also, almost no one sets out to make a bad product.

33 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

I also recall sentiments saying that they wished to incorporate what translated into Mania's success into their stuff going forward. I remember my reaction to that being "I hope that doesn't just mean making sure 3D Sonic has even more 2D in it".

 

You think that could mean hiring fan developers of 3d titles?

34 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

And then someone else brought up the restructuring going on over there. Plus, I don't even know if the next Sonic game was being worked on before or after all this was even being considered. This is also on top of the fact that I have no clue what possible story ideas they could scrape the bottom of the barrel for now. They did the thing you do when you're out of ideas (and failed at it) so now I'm just at a loss.

 

Which is?

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It's funny watching everyone trying to figure it out, when it's so simple, at least in my head what Sonic Team should do... We know what works and what doesn't. What was succesfull and what was mediocre. They just gotta build from that. Goddamnit we've been passing on feedback for years and years, it feels like our critics never actually get to these guys, as much as Aaron says he does report to Sonic Team our concerns. 

When Generations happened, as much as the boost gameplay was getting tiresome at that point, there was a spark of good to great 3D level design in zones like Seaside Hill and Sky Sanctuary, even Chemical Plant with those branching paths at the very beginning that everybody swore were merely background pieces. And were blown away when the game came out and found you could actually reach and run on those pipes. You guys remember that episode, right?

Man, I really though: "-Okay, they got some good level design going on here, Generations was less boost heavy than Unleashed by far (you could actually beat it without boosting), they just gotta make Sonic control a little better at lower speeds and we can have a game that's fast and thrilling, but also has good 3D platforming like Sonic Adventure. Add in Tails and Knuckles and give 'em the same gameplay as Sonic but design levels with different paths to take by exploring their unique skills and voilà. You have a game that's basically Sonic 3 in 3D".

But no. When they finally got the formula down, they throw away, and try a new gameplay that frankly controls like ass, just to a game later return to the boost formula, but nerfed big time in both gameplay and level design. And they even brought Classic Sonic back, despite Iizuka swearing on his mom it was an one time thing. It's like those bastards are mocking us or something.

I'm tired of this Sonic Team.

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