What is exactly the Storybooks's games continuity with the main games??

[Marco9966]

The new IDW issue referenced to the storybook games.

I never played those games, are these other dimensions? And why is there Tails and Knuckles and everyone else but with different names if it's a different dimension?

And when Sonic comes back, does a copy of him stay in that dimension? Like for example he was King Arthur all along.

It's so confusing, anyone care to clarify how this fits?

[Legendary Emerald]

Continuity? The series lost pretty much all of that in 2006. Everything has been retconned or made irrelevant one way or another since then. Two Blazes, two Eggman Negas, Silver being inexplicably around, Chaos Emeralds being linked to Gaia and not Chaos, two "Classic" Sonics... there is no continuity in the Sonic franchise as it currently exists.

[Marco9966]

2 minutes ago, Legendary Emerald said:

Continuity? The series lost pretty much all of that in 2006. Everything has been retconned or made irrelevant one way or another since then. Two Blazes, two Eggman Negas, Silver being inexplicably around, Chaos Emeralds being linked to Gaia and not Chaos, two "Classic" Sonics... there is no continuity in the Sonic franchise as it currently exists.

But for the IDW, it takes broad strokes and says "these games happened" and shows flashbacks, so it'd be interesting to see how someone can interpret this. Kinda like how people interpreted Mania as being a split timeline after Generations.

[Shadowlax]

Dreams sonic had

[Blue Blood]

Technically non-canon, but non-intrusive and work just fine as stand-alone games. They don't contradict with the main canon at all and don't bring up dumb plot holes like Lost World and Forces. And SatSR is one of the few dialogue references in Generations (in the cutscene after Modern GHZ), so take that as you will.

Basically in both games Sonic gets transported into the fictional realms of the Arabian Nights and King Arthur. There he meets other characters who look like Knuckles, Tails, Eggman etc, but they're actually entirely unrelated characters from the books. In SatSR, you can assume the world just continues as it was before. For SatBK, it can only be inferred that the world continues without King Arthur, since Sonic took his role. The stories that the games are based on are hardly accurate anyway.

[Big Panda]

The games are about Sonic being pulled into the storybook worlds.

It’s the same Sonic.

[JezMM]

They happened, Sonic specifically references Secret Rings in Generations, the reason why these alternate universes have characters in them that look identical to Sonic's friends is handwaved as a coincidence.  That's all there is to it.  Only Sonic experienced the adventures, but he clearly told his friends about them (since Tails doesn't question the line in Generations, and Black Knight's epilogue specifically consists of Sonic trying to tell Amy about it).

It's not really clear how Sonic fits into those worlds (like, how he "becomes" Aladdin or King Arthur and yet leaves afterwards just fine) but it isn't really important - it's implied he leaves the worlds in a good position to look after themselves in his absence.

[Diogenes]

There's not really much to say about them; they're just a silly gimmick of going inside storybooks where major characters from the stories are "coincidentally" identical to Sonic characters. They're pretty self-contained and inconsequential so it doesn't really make a difference if they're considered canon or not.

[Candescence]

Yeah, I consider them canon, but they could literally take places in virtually any point in the "continuity", for what worth that word has with Sonic these days. It's implied that Sonic might've taken on the role of Aladdin in Secret Rings, and he definitely took on the role of King Arthur in Black Knight, but they could be roles he unknowingly filled during his adventures rather than really becoming the characters themselves. Though, in the case of the latter, it's only fitting that he leaves the world of the story at the end, because that's literally what King Arthur does - returning Excalibur to the Lady of the Lake and disappearing from the world until the time comes again for him to return to save it.

[Kazhnuz]

Basically : pretty much what you want, they're just small stories that aren't made to work in the talent. Canon-wise, they're just some small inconsequential adventures (lore-wise) that Sonic got in the "world of existing stories", that are more interesting for how they work on the characters (and play with them) than for some "world-y" stuff.

You can place then anywhere between SA2 or Heroes (because Shadow) and Generations (because it's referenced here). IIRC, Secret Ring is referenced in Runners, somewhere too (they seems to really like this one xD).

Lore-wise, you can see that like some of "bubble universe" that exist somewhere in Sonic's multiverse and that happens to have alternate versions of other characters in it.

[thumbs13]

They both are, and can fit anywhere in the timeline, really. But I like to think it goes Secret Rings>Unleashed>Black Knight.

[Tarnish]

Don't try to make sense of Sonic's continuity. That would be putting in more effort than Sonic Team does. Plus, it just gives you a headache.

[DabigRG]

Holy shit, I just responded to this in the IDW thread, dammit.

Anyway, The Arabian Nights and King Arthur & The Black Knight are books that Sonic/Tails happens to own. He gets called inside of them being Shahra and Merlina, has an adventure involving corruption of the books elements, and then leaves.

The characters looking like Sonic's friends and enemies is essentially a Wizard of Oz thing where that's just how Sonic perceives them. There's probably even a real Shahra/Merlina walking around Sonic or even Eggman's World somewhere.

Personally, I kinda prefer keeping those elements outside of the friends self-contained, but Runners and to an lesser extent the New252 does kinda blur the lines. So whatever.

5 hours ago, Legendary Emerald said:

Continuity? The series lost pretty much all of that in 2006. Everything has been retconned or made irrelevant one way or another since then. Two Blazes, two Eggman Negas, Silver being inexplicably around, Chaos Emeralds being linked to Gaia and not Chaos, two "Classic" Sonics... there is no continuity in the Sonic franchise as it currently exists.

The 06 Blaze was probably the same one before she got wiped out, Dr. NEGA was actually from the future all along, Silver is something of a stable paradox, Chaos Emeralds are a infinitely renewable natural resource to begin with, Chaos is a mutated Chaos that might as well be a demi-god, Classic Sonic...well, that's another, not that complicated topic.

What I'm trying to say is that most of this stuff either solved itself or literally doesn't matter anymore.

5 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Technically non-canon, but non-intrusive and work just fine as stand-alone games. They don't contradict with the main canon at all and don't bring up dumb plot holes like Lost World and Forces.

And how, pray tell, does Lost World do that?

4 hours ago, JezMM said:

 

It's not really clear how Sonic fits into those worlds (like, how he "becomes" Aladdin or King Arthur and yet leaves afterwards just fine) but it isn't really important - it's implied he leaves the worlds in a good position to look after themselves in his absence.

Oh wait, is he fuckin Prince Ali too?

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

There's not really much to say about them; they're just a silly gimmick of going inside storybooks where major characters from the stories are "coincidentally" identical to Sonic characters. They're pretty self-contained and inconsequential so it doesn't really make a difference if they're considered canon or not.

So essentially, Windy Hill looking like Green Hill Zone.

I'm down with that.

3 hours ago, Candescence said:

. Though, in the case of the latter, it's only fitting that he leaves the world of the story at the end, because that's literally what King Arthur does - returning Excalibur to the Lady of the Lake and disappearing from the world until the time comes again for him to return to save it.

Oh, okay, this is what I needed to know.

Thank's Cadence!

[Rabid-Coot]

Ever watched any cartoon? Its the episode where they insert themselves into a public domain story re-telling as filler.

[JezMM]

40 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Oh wait, is he fuckin Prince Ali too?

It's sort of implied by the stinger at the end of the credits.  The book Sonic was reading is shown to be Aladdin and the Magic Lamp, which then mysteriously magics itself into saying "Sonic and the Secret Rings" instead. How you want to take that scene is kind of up to the player - whether it's meant to imply Sonic took on the role of Aladdin in a story that was bound to happen, or whether he "re-wrote" the book into the story we saw instead with his actions.  Or whether it's just a cute little stinger that is just a nod to the most well-known story from the Arabian Nights and nothing more.

[Blue Blood]

36 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

And how, pray tell, does Lost World do that?

Obnoxious, much?

It does it by bringing the Wisps to the Lost Hex for no narrative reason, completely overriding the entire context of Colours and especially its ending. Not even a handwave explanation. And and then it also has an incredibly poorly explained narrative in general that manages to leave some of the major villains completely unnamed.

I'm pretty sure you know all this already, and just want to point out that is not technically a plot hole or something? The point is simply that the SatBK and SatSR are better written from a story perspective than Lost World and Forces.

[DabigRG]

15 minutes ago, JezMM said:

It's sort of implied by the stinger at the end of the credits.  The book Sonic was reading is shown to be Aladdin and the Magic Lamp, which then mysteriously magics itself into saying "Sonic and the Secret Rings" instead. 

Ohho, really? i actually did not know that, for good reason.

 

16 minutes ago, JezMM said:

. How you want to take that scene is kind of up to the player - whether it's meant to imply Sonic took on the role of Aladdin in a story that was bound to happen, or whether he "re-wrote" the book into the story we saw instead with his actions.  Or whether it's just a cute little stinger that is just a nod to the most well-known story from the Arabian Nights and nothing more.

Oh yeah, I remember the part where Genie turned into an abomination and Aladdin punched n' kicked the shit out of his bellybutton.

11 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Obnoxious, much?

Eh, not really. The colors are already muted enough without the face there, so it's no problem to look at.

11 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

It does it by bringing the Wisps to the Lost Hex for no narrative reason, completely overriding the entire context of Colours and especially its ending. Not even a handwave explanation. And and then it also has an incredibly poorly explained narrative in general that manages to leave some of the major villains completely unnamed.

Okay, that was a little odd.

I can't help but wonder if Mr. Pontac/Graff's comment on how the story turned out might apply to more the game in general.

13 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I'm pretty sure you know all this already, and just want to point out that is not technically a plot hole or something? The point is simply that the SatBK and SatSR are better written from a story perspective than Lost World and Forces.

Uh, yeah, that'll cover it.

Really, the Wisps are just a gameplay thing and some of the Zeti not being addressed by named is kinda unsophisticated, but not a real problem. 

On that, I can relatively agree.

[StaticMania]

What's confusing about this?

The point of self-contained stories is that it doesn't matter what happens or when they happen.

Questioning things only matter when there are contradictions of established things.

[DabigRG]

47 minutes ago, do a barrel roll said:

I wish Iizuka and Sonic Team didn't screw up this series' continuity so much.

The storybook games' continuity with the main series is that Sonic was transported into the world of the respective story book for each game. The other versions of Sonic's friends were added for creativity. And when Sonic's adventure was over, he returned to his world.

A copy of Sonic did not stay in the storybook worlds. The fact that people think that would be a viable outcome just shows how much of a mess the lore for the Sonic series has become and it just saddens me, because there's so much untapped story potential with Sonic the Hedgehog and it's the reason why I will never be able to truly leave the series.

Or that those people are pretty anal, all things considered.

Either way works.

[Sega DogTagz]

Giving Sonic access to a genie that he can whip out of his back pocket makes these stories very consequential.

Alf-Laya-Al-Waya can full on grant life and had the goal of crossing over and conquering the real world - meaning his powers would have most likely be intact when he hakes the jump. If Sonic can summon Sharaha at will... doesn't that kind of break any potential narrative? Anything and everything can be fixed via wish.

[Diogenes]

Shahra wasn't able to fix much in SatSR so I don't know why she'd be some instant win button outside of her story.

[Skull Leader]

At the very least, I'd like to think that Black Knight came right after Sonic Unleashed because of the whole date thing. 

The other two games really don't have any particular connection to the main games, so it doesn't matter when did they take place.

[Sega DogTagz]

31 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Shahra wasn't able to fix much in SatSR so I don't know why she'd be some instant win button outside of her story.

True, but in that same breath she was technically helping Erazor collect all the infinity stones world rings for that entire story - so she really had no incentive to do much of anything once Sonic proved reliable and effective. Furthermore, Shahra is significantly less remarkable within her own world, as it is littered with mages and genies. Pop her in the real world; Sonic's world; and even her most modest capabilities would stand out a heck of a lot more. 

Erazor does work as a proof of concept though. There isn't a "cap" on what these genies can do once they get their hands on the world rings. 

[Diogenes]

24 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

True, but in that same breath she was technically helping Erazor collect all the infinity stones world rings for that entire story - so she really had no incentive to do much of anything once Sonic proved reliable and effective. Furthermore, Shahra is significantly less remarkable within her own world, as it is littered with mages and genies. Pop her in the real world; Sonic's world; and even her most modest capabilities would stand out a heck of a lot more. 

Erazor does work as a proof of concept though. There isn't a "cap" on what these genies can do once they get their hands on the world rings. 

This is conjecture at best. We never see Shahra do any particularly powerful magic/wish-granting and she herself says she can grant "simple" wishes. We have no reason to assume her magic is any more powerful or useful than the powers of many other Sonic characters. And we don't know much about the World Rings, but we do know that a sacrifice is required to properly control them, so I doubt she could make much use of them, even if she had them.

[Sega DogTagz]

33 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

This is conjecture at best. We never see Shahra do any particularly powerful magic/wish-granting and she herself says she can grant "simple" wishes. We have no reason to assume her magic is any more powerful or useful than the powers of many other Sonic characters. And we don't know much about the World Rings, but we do know that a sacrifice is required to properly control them, so I doubt she could make much use of them, even if she had them.

 

You say that like "simple wish granting" can't have game changing consequences. Even something as small as making a mountain of hankercheifs out of thin air - materializing something from nothing - has some pretty extreme possibilities. Even minor magic has the potential to break narratives.

Even just looking at what she can already do, transcending reality to pull Sonic into a book, Speed Break and Time Break all would be utterly busted trump cards to have in your back pocket. Let alone the wish granting.

Its also worth noting that Sonic was able to tap into the power of at least 3 of the world rings with no sacrifice, so there is that too.