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Ernest the Panda

Rush, Rivals, and 06: what’s the correct order?

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Putting together a cohesive Sonic timeline is always a challenge. But perhaps the biggest enigma when putting all the pieces together is the correct ordering of the Sonic Rush series, Sonic Rivals series, and Sonic 06.

The continuity between Rush and Rivals is almost nonexistent at first glance, with the primary reason for that being Eggman Nega: in Sonic Rush, he’s introduced as Eggman’s alternate counterpart from Blaze’s dimension. One year later, we see him again in Sonic Rivals, where he’s now suddenly Eggman’s descendant from Silver’s future. 2007 gives us sequels to both games, and they both stick to their respective backstories.

And then there’s Sonic 06. While you could place its events (or lack thereof) just about anywhere in relation to Silver (Rivals could easily be placed either before or after 06’s epilogue scene), Blaze isn’t nearly as simple. Like Nega, 06 implies a different origin for Blaze, as a resident of Silver’s future. Not to mention 06 is internally inconsistent as to whether or not Sonic and Blaze have crossed paths before: hearing about the “blue hedgehog” seems to ring a bell for Blaze, but neither of them actually acknowledge each other during that one scene.

Obviously we know the real reason for all of this: poor communication between development teams, and overall piss-poor writing in 06, and therefor we shouldn’t be overthinking it.

But where would the fun in that be?

So tell me what are your interpretations of how these games fit together?

I’ve seen a number of interpretations, such as:

-The Rivals series is set before Rush: at some point after being trapped in the Ifrit’s dimension, Nega manages to find a way out, but it takes him to Blaze’s dimension.

-06 happens before Rush, with the “alternate dimension” Blaze supposedly being sealed away in being the one from Rush, with her sealing away somehow sticking even after the timeline change.

-There are two Negas and two Blazes(?)

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Okay, let's do this:

  • The order is likely 06, Rush, and Rivals. It can be the release order, though.
  • There is only one Dr. Nega. He just lied about his origin because timetravel. Or/and because of weird dimensional relativity--that's also an option.
  • Mephiles and Blaze were apparently supposed to say "Naive hedgehog," but the Japanese word is apparently close enough to blue that they just rolled with it.
  • Rush Adventure never brings mention to Nega's origin, from what I remember watching. In fact, I believe he actively refers to the Sol Dimension as , "this/Blaze's World." Incidentally, it also sees him go full on crazed psycho at the end, something he never did in Rush.

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Doubles idea is possible, but unnecessarily confusing. We have enough of this idiocy with Classic/Modern and Earth/Mobius. So I like to think that

1 Sonic 06 was first, that lead to Blaze moving (being reborn?) in Sol Dimension. No one remember that, but they do have deja-vu. (And I know that 06 erased itself, but the fact i irrelevant. It event still happened in this paradoxical way. Like certain superhero movie).

2 Eggman Nega is a liar and possibly insane. We can't trust anything coming from his mouth. Still, Future theory makes more sense than Dimensions Twins.

3 In both Rush games Nega worked with Eggman, then started blaming him for all the failures and thus Rivals game take place. That means Nega is currently in Ifrit Dimension, but honestly, who cares? Our Eggman survived exploding spaceships, black hole, limbo and not paying Chaotix. I'm sure Nega can pop up one day, with no explanation.

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10 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

1 Sonic 06 was first, that lead to Blaze moving (being reborn?) in Sol Dimension. No one remember that, but they do have deja-vu. (And I know that 06 erased itself, but the fact i irrelevant. It event still happened in this paradoxical way. Like certain superhero movie).

Honestly, I think Blaze may have just been meant to be the same one from Rush at one point, but the clarification and backstory for that would've come in a cancelled DLC/sequel. If it wasn't already in content that was simply left out to begin with.

11 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

 

3 In both Rush games Nega worked with Eggman, then started blaming him for all the failures and thus Rivals game take place. That means Nega is currently in Ifrit Dimension, but honestly, who cares? Our Eggman survived exploding spaceships, black hole, limbo and not paying Chaotix. I'm sure Nega can pop up one day, with no explanation.

Like the Olympics!

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The correct order is Rush, Rush Adventure, and then you just forget about the other ones.

Seriously though I see no way to reconcile these games in a way that's satisfying and makes sense. To get anything logical out of it you've got to make a bunch of baseless theories that just end up muddying the points of the individual games.

57 minutes ago, Ernest the Panda said:

hearing about the “blue hedgehog” seems to ring a bell for Blaze

This is a bit of a mistranslation; as far as I've heard and as far as I can verify, the word she uses can mean either blue or naive. And it's the same word she uses every time she calls Silver naive. So rather than referring to Sonic, it's most likely a bit of foreshadowing that Silver's about to do some stupid shit (as if Mephiles isn't enough).

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Yeah I've always seen it as either 2006 is incompatible, OR you go with the fan theory that she was sealed away in her dimension, got amnesia, and lived out a brand new life there, apparently being "retconned" into that dimension just as she is retconned out of Silver's future by the end of 2006.

And Rivals story is so dumb and throwaway that it's easy to ignore, but if we insist on including it, I personally go with the "first Nega tried working with Eggman in Rush and Rush Adventure, lying about coming from Blaze's dimension to not reveal his true purpose, then after failing twice he loses patience for Eggman and 100% takes over with his own, chaotic ideas in Rivals 1&2".

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12 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Yeah I've always seen it as either 2006 is incompatible, OR you go with the fan theory that she was sealed away in her dimension, got amnesia, and lived out a brand new life there, apparently being "retconned" into that dimension just as she is retconned out of Silver's future by the end of 2006.

And Rivals story is so dumb and throwaway that it's easy to ignore, but if we insist on including it, I personally go with the "first Nega tried working with Eggman in Rush and Rush Adventure, lying about coming from Blaze's dimension to not reveal his true purpose, then after failing twice he loses patience for Eggman and 100% takes over with his own, chaotic ideas in Rivals 1&2".

I was always of the idea that because blaze was sealed in another dimension in 06 she was able to retain most of her memories post 06 (I say most cause it’s possible certain things still were removed from her memory like Sonic) while everyone in the main dimension reset. It’d explain why in Generations she remembers Crisis City while everyone else likely doesn’t, while also being able to keep her Rush origin. 

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18 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Yeah I've always seen it as either 2006 is incompatible, OR you go with the fan theory that she was sealed away in her dimension, got amnesia, and lived out a brand new life there, apparently being "retconned" into that dimension just as she is retconned out of Silver's future by the end of 2006.

 

Or that she simply ended up in Silver's Future through an adventure that was never told and stuck around helping him fight Iblis.

18 minutes ago, JezMM said:

And Rivals story is so dumb and throwaway that it's easy to ignore, but if we insist on including it, I personally go with the "first Nega tried working with Eggman in Rush and Rush Adventure, lying about coming from Blaze's dimension to not reveal his true purpose, then after failing twice he loses patience for Eggman and 100% takes over with his own, chaotic ideas in Rivals 1&2".

It's also canon too: It's the first time everyone meets Silver(to my knowledge) chronologically and it's been confirmed that Dr. Nega is indeed from the same future while Blaze is from her own dimension.

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45 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I was always of the idea that because blaze was sealed in another dimension in 06 she was able to retain most of her memories post 06 (I say most cause it’s possible certain things still were removed from her memory like Sonic) while everyone in the main dimension reset. It’d explain why in Generations she remembers Crisis City while everyone else likely doesn’t, while also being able to keep her Rush origin. 

Honestly the Crisis City comment is a continuinity snarl I find hard to deal with. I personally prefer the idea that time and space is so effed up during the events of that game that, along with the stage itself, the events of 2006 get temporarily unretconned, and Blaze is literally aware that it's a memory that got erased and is now, temporarily, back.

Of course, realistically Sonic, Blaze and Silver would probably be a little emotional about recalling the events of that game again but we really are just making stuff up to fill holes at this point so you can decide they only partially remember stuff or that only Blaze does or... whatever. I mean it's already contrived that with this fanon, we're suggesting of ALL the alternate histories that the Time Eater could've pulled from, it pulled from the one that we, the audience, did get to witness in a game at some point (y'know, as oppose to any of the infinite number of other alterate histories that presumebly exist in an infinite number of other dimensions etc).  What a mess lol.

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3 minutes ago, JezMM said:

I mean it's already contrived that with this fanon, we're suggesting of ALL the alternate histories that the Time Eater could've pulled from, it pulled from the one that we, the audience, did get to witness in a game at some point (y'know, as oppose to any of the infinite number of other alterate histories that presumebly exist in an infinite number of other dimensions etc).  What a mess lol.

Should be noted that while Eggman is explaining what the time eater can do, of the 3 levels the game pans to while he says “it could erase, time and space” they decided to give Crisis City a focus, so I wonder if they implied anything with that little detail.

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Rivals can't really be ignored regardless of anyone's individual opinions on it if they care about this making any sense. It's written within that game's story that Sonic and Silver meet for the first time as they aren't aware of who the other is due to the events that happened in 06.

A lot of this would be easy to fix if it was just re-written that Eggman Nega was lying about something. Whether he's Eggman's descendant from a (hopefully) alternate future or from another dimension, if they just picked one than his backstory wouldn't literally contradict everything on the face of it. 

I have a hunch that the only reason he's in Rivals was because they were trying to haphazardly create a bridge between Silver and Blaze. There is a strong theory out there that suggests that because of how close all these games released (2005-2006) the order of events just got fucked up and the plans for who Silver and Blaze were ended up getting either left at the wayside.

I can see it considering how, to this day, they insist on keeping those two together as a pair despite doubling back on almost everything else about Sonic 06.

You could feasibly have it so 06 took place before Rush in that regard. How she ended up being a princess for that dimension would require an even deeper dive into her backstory but... this is the era of text-boxes and miniscule events so...

It doesn't matter. It's clear that whatever the original intention was, it's fucked up beyond what they're capable of repairing. 

It's honestly best I just move forward ignoring 06 altogether. That game even retconned itself so it's not as if losing it would harm anything. 

Then there's Silver who in his profile in Generations, the IDW comics, and Rivals comes from a future in ruins still. Though in Rivals it was apparently the Ifrit that did it but I guess not because it's still supposedly a problem nowadays. And in Colors DS he says everything's fine and everyone's actually happy. God, even without 06 they can't even move forward with a consistent vision for him. At least Blaze has that going for her. After 06 they didn't fiddle around with the status of her dimension in anyway. 

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29 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Honestly the Crisis City comment is a continuinity snarl I find hard to deal with. I personally prefer the idea that time and space is so effed up during the events of that game that, along with the stage itself, the events of 2006 get temporarily unretconned, and Blaze is literally aware that it's a memory that got erased and is now, temporarily, back.

Oh wait, IS that an actual thing?

19 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

I have a hunch that the only reason he's in Rivals was because they were trying to haphazardly create a bridge between Silver and Blaze. There is a strong theory out there that suggests that because of how close all these games released (2005-2006) the order of events just got fucked up and the plans for who Silver and Blaze were ended up getting either left at the wayside.

Actually, Dr. Nega in general is most likely a product of convenience to begin with.

They originally had concept art of a young scientist who was likely supposed to still be Eggman's descendant for the first Rivals, but they decided to just use him instead.

Going further back to his debut and it's respective console suggests this might be why he is Eggman NEGA in the first place.

 

The Silver and Blaze connection is likely just an extra boon of those decisions.

24 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 At least Blaze has that going for her. After 06 they didn't fiddle around with the status of her dimension in anyway. 

Didn't Rush Adventure come out after most of this?

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Maekawa mentioned something about a feeling of connection between Sonic 2006 and Sonic Rush, but he was quite vague about it. https://twitter.com/mizuhano/status/1010563445068976128

 

Silver's chronology is fairly straightforward: Sonic 2006 (events get undone), Sonic Rivals (meets Sonic for the "first" time), Sonic Rivals 2, Sonic Colours DS (meets Blaze for the "first" time, but they have a sense of deja vu).

 

The others are kind of vague. Sonic and Tails never interact with Blaze in Sonic 2006, and they don't (knowingly) interact with Eggman Nega in Rivals 1 and 2. But, since Sonic and Blaze appear in at least one scene together in 2006, but don't acknowledge each other, it makes more sense if they don't know each other at that point. It also makes more sense if Eggman and Eggman Nega's team-ups in the two Rush games take place before the Rivals games, where they are enemies.

 

So:


Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)

Sonic Rush

Sonic Rush Adventure

Sonic Rivals 

Sonic Rivals 2

 

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Much like some have already said, I also think that any "official" order would most likely be:

'06 (if we really have to) -> Rush Games -> Rivals Games

And hey, having Rivals 2 come last would leave Eggman Nega stuck in another dimension for who knows how long, explaining his absence in future games.

...No, I don't count the Olympics.

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I always saw Rivals 2 as the altered timeline version of how 06 happens (granted I know that's probably wrong and it's been years since I played Rivals 2 so I'm almost definitely missing some details), mainly just because of how many things are lifted from 06, but altered. With the Flames of Destruction erased from the timeline, it course corrects itself with Ifrit being the one to cause the destruction of Sonic's future instead, and the details we do receive from Rivals 2 that's similar to 06 is the now "canon" version of how those events went down, at least for the time, or maybe that's just because I feel like Rivals 2 did a better job of working Silver and a world-destroying monster into a Sonic universe, given a ton of the plots still sort of try for already-established plot points in the story.

As for Rush and 06...like I know for a fact that SEGA for some idiotic reason always tries to explain how 06 and Rush can still be canon, and how there's a connection, and whatever else, but I just like to consider 06's plot in general as non-canon because Rush released first and established the backstory first, as well as 06's events, and Blaze's death becoming non-canon due to timeline alterations. Trying to work Blaze into things is just a completely idiotic example of trying to have your cake and eat it too by playing coy that the two are connected when all it does is make things more over-complex and annoying to follow.

You can go with the idea that Blaze was sealed away into the Sol Dimension with Iblis, and then due to the future rewrite, it caused her to remain in the Sol Dimension, but with an altered history or whatever, but personally, I just like to discount Blaze's appearance in 06 altogether as non-canon because Rush had already established her backstory, and future games always run with the Sol Dimension explanation while coyly hinting at 06. I get that other games like to play up Blaze/Silver too, but I like to believe it's because they're the two displaced characters of the cast (literally travellers of time/space), as opposed to because 06 had them together.

Now granted, all of that is my own personal interpretation of how the canon should work, where basically 06 is discounted altogether, and Rivals 2 plays as the canon version of those events, but if you want a strictly "assuming everything is canon answer" from my own attempts to scrap together this confused and disjointed plotline...

I'd say 06>Rush>Rivals 2. 06 sets up Blaze and Silver in the future, Blaze is sealed with Iblis in the Sol Dimension, the future is erased thanks to Elise destroying the Flames of Disaster. Rush happens when Blaze's personal timeline is rewritten afterwards, but still sealed in the Sol Dimension somehow, having apparently grown up as an inhabitant, and eventually becoming a princess/guardian there. This covers Nega's introduction. 

Rivals 2 is now the rewritten events of 06 where the future is attempting to course-correct to something similar to the 06 timeline. Because of that, Silver's future is still destroyed, only with Ifrit this time instead of Iblis. However, the rewrite still works relatively well because Ifrit is less powerful than Iblis, and that means the heroes can defeat him in the past without needing to erase his creation altogether. This creates a better future for Silver.

I still think this doesn't work at all, because no matter how I think about it, Blaze is just non-nonsensical. If she was originally a future inhabitant of Sonic's world, then there's no reason, or way she would be in the Sol Dimension now, because she would not only never need to imprison Iblis inside of her, but she never would've gotten sent to the Sol Dimension because that timeline was erased. 

On top of that, Blaze was sent there in the future, so it would stand to reason she would've been in the Sol Dimension's future, as opposed to the present, where Captain Whisker, Nega and such are scheming with main series Eggman. So it doesn't explain why she awakens in the Sol Dimension's present, with no Iblis, and with a completely rewritten history, because her rewritten history doesn't make sense now because the only reason she would be in the Sol Dimension at all is because she had to seal herself there with Iblis.

So, we could then go for the alternative route that the Sol Dimension is immune to timeline changes, and therefore Iblis is still sealed in Blaze, enhancing her powers, and Blaze remembers everything, except that still doesn't make sense because she never once makes mention to the events of 06, which she should remember, she never seems to care about the fact her body is being used as a vessel for what's basically a near-invincible monster of destruction, and she runs around with the title of princess, and guardian, despite the fact she would have never grown-up in the Sol Dimension, therefore would not have a title of royalty, nor would she be so dedicated to taking care of the Sol Emeralds so fiercely. 

Just ugggh, I despise the storyline of 06, and I get that might be taking away from the topic of discussion, but I honestly, frankly cannot believe that these three games can all be canon, even with 06 erased out of the timeline. There's too many inconsistencies that are present with Blaze that makes both options of her own timeline got altered, or she remembers everything make little to no sense.

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Blaze really is the worst part of this whole confusion, honestly.

I honestly do not understand why they bothered to have her in 06 when an original character would've worked far better for that role without the baggage involved. She doesn't even do much in the story to begin with.

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20 hours ago, KHCast said:

I was always of the idea that because blaze was sealed in another dimension in 06 she was able to retain most of her memories post 06 (I say most cause it’s possible certain things still were removed from her memory like Sonic) while everyone in the main dimension reset. It’d explain why in Generations she remembers Crisis City while everyone else likely doesn’t, while also being able to keep her Rush origin. 

I think that Generations is partially not canon... I mean, the base story, the birthday party, Time Eater and all, that's ok, but most of the specific events in the game are just meta and not really important lore-wise.

Sonic goes through completely different zones depending on the version of the game (HD or 3DS), and it's really the same game, it tells the same story. I wouldn't worry much about the details.

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3 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Generations obviously can't be all be canon. Sonic barely remember Green Hill Zone, instead of saying "Hey, it's this one zone that keeps haunting us wherever we go"

At that point, there were many copies, but the actual Green Hill Zone appeared very rarely.

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12 hours ago, Razule said:

At that point, there were many copies, but the actual Green Hill Zone appeared very rarely.

It's almost like grrass is all over the place in non-extreme temperatures or something.

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On 6/4/2019 at 3:23 PM, MetalSkulkBane said:

Generations obviously can't be all be canon. Sonic barely remember Green Hill Zone, instead of saying "Hey, it's this one zone that keeps haunting us wherever we go"

That's only if the 8-bit titles are canon, yeah? Plus the Adventure 2 total completion bonus.

Otherwise, I don't think anniversary Green Hill remix levels were a thing yet.

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