Can Sega just sort out the Sonic 3 and Knuckles music stuff already?

[Multikaris]

2 hours ago, TheOcelot said:

For all we know the reason for the continued lack of a port/re-releases of the original game could be a lot more complex than a dispute over who owns the rights to some of the tracks, but that's pretty much all we have to go on at the moment. The Sonic community has done their best to try and find out what the fuck happened.

I think the alledged lawsuit is supposed to have taken place around 2011 - 2013.

MJ not wanting to be credited because he didn't like the Mega-Drive soundfont and/or SEGA distancing themselves from MJ due to the child-abuse allegations. This left SEGA with an incomplete soundtrack, having to hire additional artists to compose the remainder of the music and having to decide what to do with some of the music already composed by MJ (or Brooks and Buxer). I'm guessing SEGA probably felt they had every right to use the music already composed by MJ who had distanced himself from the project-didn't want to be credited, so they felt they owned it and had every right to include it. However, SEGA wasn't fully aware that other artist such as Buxer (who worked with MJ) & Brooks had contributed to some of the music which made in into the game, and unlike MJ they either didn't want their music to be included or they're not happy with not being credited for their contribution and are claiming royalties. Hence all the legal stuff which has gone down. The Jackson family may also feel they're owed royalties, but I suspect the main issue is with Brooks and Buxer.

When I think of how much content of Sonic 3K was allowed to be included in Mania/Mania Plus with apparently zero repercussions, I believe SEGA do like Sonic 3, are aware the fanbase adore this game and would have released it a few more time since 2011 (along with Sonic 1&2 etc) if it wasn't for a dispute over the ownership of some of the music and the threat of being sued.

Convenient wasn't it that Generations and Sonic Mania both avoided using Carnival Night, Ice Cap or Launch Base (all very popular zones due to their design/music/aesthetic). I wonder if Team Mania had the nerve to suggest re-imagining one of these zones when they were in discussions with SEGA/Iizuka-san as to which Sonic 3 stages to include. If they did have the nerve they probably would have been shot-down so fast, ha.

I do find it strange that the S&K half was included in some of the recent hardware packages (made by ATGames etc) since 2011 (the last time Sonic 3 was rereleased) and now even S&K seems to be off the table-wasn't included in the current-gen SEGA games collection or the Mega-Drive Mni.

Sigh... Well, at least we have Sonic Mania, Sonic 3 Complete, Sonic 3 AIR to keep us busy. Sonic 3 AIR is pretty much the perfect 3K remaster we could ever hope for. 

“Leaving Neverland” might be to blame why even S&K is off the table. Same reason why Sega would never even consider releasing “Stimpy’s Invention” again.

[CleverSonicUsername]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

“Leaving Neverland” might be to blame why even S&K is off the table. Same reason why Sega would never even consider releasing “Stimpy’s Invention” again.

SEGA's squeamishness with Sonic 3 predates Leaving Neverland by years.

 

[Meta77]

I mean didnt just like 2 weeks ago twitter was up in arms over Leaving Neverland was noting but a fake money cash grab? Honestly after like 20 years they should release the tracks.

[CleverSonicUsername]

3 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I mean didnt just like 2 weeks ago twitter was up in arms over Leaving Neverland was noting but a fake money cash grab? Honestly after like 20 years they should release the tracks.

My personal theory is that SEGA just hasn't pursued the rights, since doing so would be an admission of their dealings with Jackson, something they clearly want to distance themselves on. Instead, they're being ultra conservative in their approach to Sonic 3 so as to not raise any potential problem that would force them to deal with his estate.

That said, I bet the real peril is more to do with Buxer lifting one of his songs wholesale and throwing it in the game when nobody was looking.

[Plasme]

I don't think Leaving Neverland has any bearing on the game whatsoever. SEGA themselves have never said anything beyond that Michael Jackson was supposed to work on Sonic 3 and never did. No one has expressed any outrage for MJ being involved in Sonic 3.

Btw, Leaving Neverland is a great documentary. Everyone should watch it, even if it is difficult to watch.

[Tornado]

8 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

“Leaving Neverland” might be to blame why even S&K is off the table. Same reason why Sega would never even consider releasing “Stimpy’s Invention"

The only reason Leaving Neverland would make any difference is if whatever solution that was found required Sega to officially credit Michael or someone in Michael's inner circle.

[Smash_Bandicoot]

To be fairly honest even though MJ step down from the production due to the child sexual assault classes and picking his leading keyboardist to replace him ...years later after his death I feel like his family/estate doesn't want the royalties from sonic 3 .

 

I remember along down the line I seen a story about how his sister turned down a hefty share of Jackson's will... so who knows what type of cluster**** of copywriting is going on with sonic 3 after all the events prior to mj stepping down 

[CleverSonicUsername]

Since there's a new post in this and I'm reminded of my last reply, I think I was overthinking things. SEGA probably just doesn't want to deal with it because - SEGA being SEGA - they don't think Sonic 3 is worth enough to them to bother sorting this mess out.

[Vampfox]

Wouldn't Sonic 3's music be covered by a work for hire contract?

[CleverSonicUsername]

15 hours ago, Spinneret said:

Wouldn't Sonic 3's music be covered by a work for hire contract?

If the whole mess with Penders taught me anything, it's to never count on that. Also, wasn't there some business about Masato Nakamura holding some degree of ownership over the tracks he created as well?

[Plasme]

My own opinion is that people are focusing far too much on Jackson. Buxer was recently interviewed about it and said that he had very little, or nothing, to do with it when it actually panned out becauae he was busy with other stuff.

There clearly are problems with the Sonic 3 OST, as AT Games said so when they were on board to make rhe mini and one of the Sonic 3 composers claimed there was an ongoing lawsuit wheb asked about it by a fan. Stealth has also alluded to it.

There are various issues about the lawsuit which people overlook.

1 - It's probably more recent than people think.

People point to Sonic 3AK Collection, but ignore Sonic Jam (another port) and Sonic Pocket Adventure (which remade the Knuckles theme). We have no way of knowing exactly why the musuc was changed in the PC release, but it might not have anything to do with a lawsuit. I also thjnk whether the game is emulated or ported/remade is irrelevant, since over the last ten years it just hasnt been re-released at all.

it has been ongoing for (at least) almost ten years - since that's when they stopped releasing Sonic 3 in any capacity and when people who either worked, or were working on the game, have alluded to a lawsuit.

2 - It might be any of the game's credited composers who are pressing charges.

The reality might be mundane. Maybe they think they should be paid foyalties? Maybe they are suing over something on the original contract? Who knows. It might bot have anything to do with Jackson.

Although - in favour of the Jackson argument, this stuff really started to kick off (games not re-releasing, devs referring to it) shortly after his death. So perhaps it is the Estate getting pissy about it.

[John43]

On 5/28/2020 at 9:33 AM, Plasme said:

People point to Sonic 3AK Collection, but ignore Sonic Jam (another port) and Sonic Pocket Adventure (which remade the Knuckles theme). We have no way of knowing exactly why the musuc was changed in the PC release, but it might not have anything to do with a lawsuit. I also thjnk whether the game is emulated or ported/remade is irrelevant, since over the last ten years it just hasnt been re-released at all

2 - It might be any of the game's credited composers who are pressing charges.

The reality might be mundane. Maybe they think they should be paid foyalties? Maybe they are suing over something on the original contract? Who knows. It might bot have anything to do with Jackson.

I agree with you. His role was minimal due to evidence and implications from other sources. He will have wrote a couple of tracks and then inspired the rest of the soundtrack. Though, I'd love to hear the legendary demo tape he recorded over the phone. 

People don't like to mention pocket adventure, but it has several s3 remixes that were theorised to come from MJ. 

SCIROCCO is supposedly one of the musicians pressing charges for a track simply known as "the water" 

I think theories are popping up about the music used in s3's prototype and pc version being the biggest issues. Ice cap has a striking resemblence to crystal egg zone from Sonic 2's 8 bit version. 

Meanwhile the special stage music from s3 was found in an unreleased game called Sega sonic bros? Which predates sonic 3