Depth of Sonic Cast (psychological headcanons)

[MetalSkulkBane]

When discussing Sonic's characters most of us say 'they fun, but not exactly complex". Obviously Sonic games or comics will never attempt storytelling of Bojack Horseman, Steven Universe or Avatar Aang/Korra (all great cartoon BTW). With that said, not everything deep must be spelled out (I noticed few fascinating thing about characters from Bojack that show never acknowledged in depth).

So I believe that from right angle there can be find at least a little depth from Sonic's friends and enemies. For example

1 Eggman. He kinda comes off as very stereotypical evil scientistic, maybe a little 'adult child comparing to Willy or Neo Cortex. But there is a very fascinating theme to most of his inventions (other than putting his face everywhere): Badniks, Eggman Land and Metal Sonic (series). What they have all in common? ....They are twisted joke, a corruption of something good. People like nature, here are animal-based robots (even with silly googly eyes). People like Amusement Parks, here's  one that tries to kill you. And of course people love that blue rodent, let's make a deadliest robot based on him (Ironically his first victim, Amy, was Sonic's #1 fan).
When I heard somewhere that Robotnik was mockingly called Eggman, and he took it as his official nickname, I though it's a stupid retcon to smooth West/Jap connection. But that actually fits perfectly with his characterization : people found this name funny, so he took it. Now he build tons of deadly weapons and calls them Egg-something. So suddenly something that was funny to you is now associated with death and destruction.  (Mind you, that is his intention, not official outcome).
And there is even more baggage if you look at Preboot Archie Eggman, but that's for another day.

2 Metal Sonic. I wrote whole fic around this concept, but basically I think Metal Sonic is insane. Or at very least he was in Heroes. "There can be only one Sonic" is a famous quote from Sonic's OVA movie. Metal's entire existence is based on defeating one person he hates, yet he's just Sonic's knock-off. Solution? Convince yourself YOU'RE the real Sonic, and fleshing is somehow your loathsome copy. Now that's already stretching reality. Only worse thing would be if you LOST to that copy. And again and again. That could push you to do something drastic, like becoming a giant metal dragon or something. In other words: he's put together the wrong way.

3 Omega. He's not the first Eggman robot to rebel. But he's the only one still in process of that rebellion. It's funny how long time ago he decided to kill Eggman, but so rarely does anything towards this goal. Could it be that somewhere deep in his head he doesn't want to fulfill his goal, as that would bring him to his biggest fear: lack of purpose?
Omega's reason to rebel sounds silly: he was left without orders. But robots live to serve, he needed some kind of orders. So he got so desperate that first two organic he meet suggest him a goal, he took it in a second. He even follows then, while not officially a servant, he's always a sidekick to Shadow or Rouge. Rarely he goes on his own to destroy Eggman's robots, but he's totally not in a hurry to finish it. Because if he's done, he would be back to that room Rouge found him: without a purpose.
OR IS HE? He was sealed with Shadow after all. And Mephiles said Omega is the one to capture him in the future. Maybe goal of destroying Shadow is still in his head, but was overwhelmed by hatred towards Eggman. Maybe Omega doesn't want to accomplish his goal anymore, because then he would be left with only one purpose in life: destruction of his best friend.

Well, those are my ideas and observations. Anyone else has his own ideas how Sonic Cast can be a bit more complex then we give them credit for?

[DabigRG]

This seems like its finally another interesting, if confusingly themed topic.

I gotta say, going by your Eggman and Metal examples for the moment, these sound less like headcanons and more intermediate takeaways for the most part.

The idea of Omega being upset due to a lack of purpose is an original one, I must say.

However, the intent that somewhat comes across from how he's been used suggests he simply has an ego of his own that was massively insulted by being locked away despite his destructive capabilities. And Mephiles' implication is seemingly explaining retroactively that Eggman did so intentionally because he expected him to be able to keep Shadow contained in the first place.

[Guergy]

I always thought that Omega had a grudge against Eggman due to being locked up but I guess that might not be the case. Do you think Eggman feared Omega to an extent? 

[shdowhunt60]

This used to be a pretty common exercise for writing fanfiction back in the day. 

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4195123/1/Blue-Hedgehog-Psychology

Honestly, years later, this still remains to be my favorite example. Shame it never got completed as a proper story.

[Cuz]

I may of read more into Amy's resolution at the end of Sonic Adventure then was actually there. To wit it sounded to me like she resolved to stop "overtly" chasing Sonic and instead become someone he respects, to flip the tables and focus on becoming a hero in her own right, where he's compelled to do the chasing. That's more or less how I've always read that ending, and it provides a nice anchoring point for why she put her own team together, took up an unhealthy obsession with boxercise that one time, and in recent times crops up organizing insurgence strikes for Knuckles.

 

[Guergy]

I always thought that Tails character arc in the Adventure games was learning to stand out on his own to two feet as opposed to leaning on Sonic. In Sonic Adventure, the story felt like a coming-of-age tale where the player character Tails races Sonic throughout his levels to the finish in order to find the Chaos Emeralds. Things come to ahead  where Sonic and Tails are separated from each other where Eggman decides to destroy the Station Square himself and this time it is Tails who has to step up to stop him. After a tough fight with the Eggman, Tails saves the city and reunites with his friends to later help them with Chaos.  In Sonic Adventure 2, we see Tails has grown from the experience and he has become more confident in himself where he fights along side Sonic whereas he used to be behind him. 

 

I will admit my grammar is horrible but that is how I see it with Tails. 

[BaronGrackle]

On 6/18/2019 at 4:39 PM, MetalSkulkBane said:

1 Eggman. He kinda comes off as very stereotypical evil scientistic, maybe a little 'adult child' comparing to Willy or Neo Cortex. But there is a very fascinating theme to most of his inventions (other than putting his face everywhere): Badniks, Eggman Land and Metal Sonic (series). What they have all in common? ....They are twisted joke, a corruption of something good. People like nature, here are animal-based robots (even with silly googly eyes). People like Amusement Parks, here's  one that tries to kill you. And of course people love that blue rodent, let's make a deadliest robot based on him (Ironically his first victim, Amy, was Sonic's #1 fan).
When I heard somewhere that Robotnik was mockingly called Eggman, and he took it as his official nickname, I though it's a stupid retcon to smooth West/Jap connection. But that actually fits perfectly with his characterization : people found this name funny, so he took it. Now he build tons of deadly weapons and calls them Egg-something. So suddenly something that was funny to you is now associated with death and destruction.  (Mind you, that is his intention, not official outcome).
And there is even more baggage if you look at Preboot Archie Eggman, but that's for another day.

I read your Metal Sonic fanfic, and I love it. It's fantastic.

I don't agree with your characterization of Eggman in this post, and I don't think your Metal Sonic fanfic agrees either.

To design things as a twisted joke, Eggman would have to be nihilistically cynical. "Nothing is beautiful, nothing is great, so I shall make a caricature." But he doesn't see the world that way.

Instead, it's: "I am beautiful, I am great, so behold my creations!" People like nature? Eggman factories and cities are better! People like animals? Eggman badniks are better! People like amusement parks? They're nothing compared to Eggmanland! You think Sonic is the best? Well MY Sonic is even better!

It's the classic Nature vs. Technology conflict that the Sonic mythos surrounds itself with. Technology doesn't TRY to be a twisted caricature of Nature... it tries to be superior to Nature. Specifically, the iconic race between Sonic and Metal Sonic reflects folktales such as Paul Bunyon or John Henry vs. the steam-powered engines of the industrial revolution.

The reason Eggman's inventions come out like twisted parodies is because he isn't actually as great as he thinks he is, and (in the Sonic universe) Nature generally is superior to Technology.

And I think this is reflected well in your Metal Sonic fanfic, in which Eggman is proud of his inventions' successes, and in which he sees the industrialization/destruction of an island to be an improvement on its original version.

In summary, I see Robotnik as less like the Joker and more like Lex Luthor.

[DabigRG]

Kinda strugglin to think of a character to put here. For the few seconds I think about this thread, anyway.

[Scape]

On 6/21/2019 at 6:36 AM, Cuz said:

I may of read more into Amy's resolution at the end of Sonic Adventure then was actually there. To wit it sounded to me like she resolved to stop "overtly" chasing Sonic and instead become someone he respects, to flip the tables and focus on becoming a hero in her own right, where he's compelled to do the chasing. That's more or less how I've always read that ending, and it provides a nice anchoring point for why she put her own team together, took up an unhealthy obsession with boxercise that one time, and in recent times crops up organizing insurgence strikes for Knuckles.

 

No, you didn't. You just expected SEGA to give a shit about someone other than the main 3 for a day.

[DabigRG]

31 minutes ago, Scape said:

No, you didn't. You just expected SEGA to give a shit about someone other than the main 3 for a day.

To be fair, they did--Amy went from a brief comic relief character in spinoffs to a main character who gets a lot of focus in cutscenes, to say nothing of Shadow.

[MetalSkulkBane]

On 6/21/2019 at 12:36 PM, Cuz said:

I may of read more into Amy's resolution at the end of Sonic Adventure then was actually there. To wit it sounded to me like she resolved to stop "overtly" chasing Sonic and instead become someone he respects, to flip the tables and focus on becoming a hero in her own right, where he's compelled to do the chasing. That's more or less how I've always read that ending, and it provides a nice anchoring point for why she put her own team together, took up an unhealthy obsession with boxercise that one time, and in recent times crops up organizing insurgence strikes for Knuckles.

 

 

1 hour ago, Scape said:

No, you didn't. You just expected SEGA to give a shit about someone other than the main 3 for a day.

You're being unfair. Sega is completely capable of ruining any character, no matter their popularity. Fooled-again Knucklchead, Jackass/Coward Tails, Superiority-on-legs Shadow, etc. Honestly Amy doesn't have it that bad.

4 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

I read your Metal Sonic fanfic, and I love it. It's fantastic.

I don't agree with your characterization of Eggman in this post, and I don't think your Metal Sonic fanfic agrees either.

To design things as a twisted joke, Eggman would have to be nihilistically cynical. "Nothing is beautiful, nothing is great, so I shall make a caricature." But he doesn't see the world that way.

Instead, it's: "I am beautiful, I am great, so behold my creations!" People like nature? Eggman factories and cities are better! People like animals? Eggman badniks are better! People like amusement parks? They're nothing compared to Eggmanland! You think Sonic is the best? Well MY Sonic is even better!

It's the classic Nature vs. Technology conflict that the Sonic mythos surrounds itself with. Technology doesn't TRY to be a twisted caricature of Nature... it tries to be superior to Nature. Specifically, the iconic race between Sonic and Metal Sonic reflects folktales such as Paul Bunyon or John Henry vs. the steam-powered engines of the industrial revolution.

The reason Eggman's inventions come out like twisted parodies is because he isn't actually as great as he thinks he is, and (in the Sonic universe) Nature generally is superior to Technology.

And I think this is reflected well in your Metal Sonic fanfic, in which Eggman is proud of his inventions' successes, and in which he sees the industrialization/destruction of an island to be an improvement on its original version.

In summary, I see Robotnik as less like the Joker and more like Lex Luthor.

Awww, thanks :3.

IDK, I don't think you interpreted what I said correctly.

Eggman isn't nihilist, he just has a sick sense of humor. Probably people laughed at him in the past (and now), so now he's getting his last laugh.

I obviously don't deny Nature Vs Science fight, or that Eggman has a large ego. Still, your theory doesn't explain his love for Carnivals and Amusement rides. I think he really does finds twisted joy in messing in peoples heads like that.

[DabigRG]

7 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Honestly Amy doesn't have it that bad.

Probably because the extent of her abilities and sometimes even personality depends on the writer, not to mention being laughable to begin with.

[Shadowlax]

I dunno if this is ontopic, but it would be interesting if Knuckles had wild insecurities about the mural with sonic and shit. Like his whole life , he's kinda devoid of a family and belonging he's stuck on this island guarding and overgrown ring pop and the only thing his people left him was responsibility and a mural to some other no guidance no nothing. I can see an interpretation of knuckles is that his sometimes rivalry with sonic didn't sprout from a butting of personalities but rather he feels like it was divined from the heavens that sonic was better than him or at least more important. His people at least in his eyes cared more about sonic than him. And the super form sort of adds to that.

I can also see this sort of thing spreading to other characters, I can see any hostility towards shadow because he was born/made/edged into our reality with crazy powers over the chaos emeralds that he doesn't even have, he seems to hate it. He could perceive shadow was just born with a chaos controlled spoon in his mouth, and he doesn't even appreciate it. What shadow can call a family came and shadow murdered all of them with out much of a fuss. The thing he didn't even have shadow just got rid of it.

You got like characters like silver who are like wholly incompetent who just kind of chuckle themselves into powers and importance. And characters like blaze , much like sonic sort of preordained to be cool down from on high. Though knuckles wouldn't know that , sort perceiving as another shadow like figure sort of melancholy about some of the aspects of her responsibility despite all she can do.

Kind of a have and have nots situation. Knuckles being a character lacking the capabilities of these characters  , yet in terms of the world itself the guy guarding the M.E should be up there with them in some regards... but no. And then you have the people who live on the top of the mountain actively taunting him, just incompetent , or seemingly miserable about their circumstances. And the outside I can see that infuriating him. One of the reasons for his can do, fiery personality. He might be compensating to keep up with a bunch of people he feel like he should have started on equal footing.

 

[BaronGrackle]

5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Still, your theory doesn't explain his love for Carnivals and Amusement rides. I think he really does finds twisted joy in messing in peoples heads like that.

Oh, I visualize a Sonic Boom! two-parter that depicts the events of S3&K. There's a major scene where Boom!Knuckles shows off Carnival Night Zone and answers the befuddled doctor's questions.

"How did you build this?"

"Oh, the usual way. Hard work. Spit and polish."

"Who is this carnival even for?"

"Rabbits and birds, mainly. But Ricky and his squirrel gang try to sneak in without paying all the time." (a squirrel chitters) "I'm on to you, Ricky!"

"These aren't even actual rides! Those bumpers just slam against the wall! That giant barrel just goes up and down!"

"Heh, if you're lucky it does."

"None of this even makes sense!"

"Well, we're trying to expand Angel Island's tourism sector. Carnival Night is a natural complement to the Balloon Festival."

"Balloon festival?!"

"Held bi-annually, in the arctic Ice Cap Zone! I'd show you, but we're off season right now."

"That only raises MORE questions!"

S3&K is actually very fun to visualize in Sonic Boom! form.

4 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I dunno if this is ontopic, but it would be interesting if Knuckles had wild insecurities about the mural with sonic and shit. Like his whole life , he's kinda devoid of a family and belonging he's stuck on this island guarding and overgrown ring pop and the only thing his people left him was responsibility and a mural to some other no guidance no nothing. I can see an interpretation of knuckles is that his sometimes rivalry with sonic didn't sprout from a butting of personalities but rather he feels like it was divined from the heavens that sonic was better than him or at least more important. His people at least in his eyes cared more about sonic than him. And the super form sort of adds to that.

Sonic's pace is relentless
He wastes no time
What is it like in his shoes?

Sonic doesn't hesitate.
He exhibits no restraint.
He takes and he takes and he takes
And he keeps winning anyway.
He changes the game.
He plays and he raises the stakes.
And if there's a reason
He seems to thrive when so few survive
Then by Chaos I'm willing to wait for it.
I'm willing to wait for it…