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Next Main Game is 30th Anniversary Title, Drop Dash News

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Hopefully (or not?) this isn't a premonition or anything, but I had a dream last night where a Sonic Heroes remake was leaked through an upcoming line of toys. The box of one of these said toys had images of the remake, and it was basically a remake like Crash and Spyro. 

Gotta say I was very excited for it, the graphics looked amazing and more colorfull than ever. A press release came afterwards and SEGA confirmed that the game was being remade from the ground-up, and that the gameplay would be changed and improved, mostly the character switching mechanic. They said it would feel more natural and even confirmed a 3-player splitscreen mode where each player would control a character. No further details on how it would work in more complex levels tho'.

They also confirmed that there would be a brand new team available and all the music was being remixed by Jun Senoue and co.

---

So what if, guys? I've always liked Heroes because of how the level themes resembled a classic game. The gameplay is fun, but indeed could use some tweaking. The story is... Okay I guess. And the soundtrack, damn, I love it.

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38 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

I think the reason why so many (Including me) keep thinking the next 3d Sonic game should be done soon, and should have been in development for a long time, is because I fear we're all suffering from a refusal to believe Sonic Lost world and Sonic Forces are really the only 2 actual games Sonic team made in a decade. Both feel like a B-Team asset-recycle cashgrab inbetween main releases. Yeah, cute game made by the Sonic Team's interns and whatever third party helped you out there, now where's the REAL game you're working on? What were you working on since 2013's Lost world? Forces? Hahaha, cute. Seriously, where's the real game you're working on?

I feel the same. I love 3D Sonic as much as 2D, heck, Heroes is one of my favorite games in the franchise and I'm well aware that it isn't a fan favorite, but the last 3D games we got lack scale, depth and originality. 

Where's the Sonic Unleashed of this era is the big question in your speech and I totally agree. I really thought that we would get a game like that when Sonic Forces' first teaser dropped. It was the next-gen, they would be able to render so much more shit while Sonic moves, animate his in-game model basically like the Marza CGI movies... but nah. Everything was thrown out of the window.

We got average game after average game, with Sonic Mania being the first turning point, then we got back a little more with Sonic Forces, and now we got a little forward again with Team Sonic Racing. The former being almost a spin-off game made by a different team (this is not a complaint tho') and the later is a racing spin-off. Forces was supposed to be the Unleashed title, but for God knows what reason they cut budget and allocated the job to a small team. 

Sure shit happened inside Sonic Team and that likely had an impact on the production of Sonic Forces, but let's hope they have their shit together by now.

I want to believe, I really do, but if we got yet another boost-like game that mixes linear 3D with 2D again, I'll say good fucking luck next time, ST.

At least give us a Mania 2 to wash it off and keep believing Sonic can still be great.

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1 hour ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Yeah, my reaction too, seeing NEXT SONIC GAME and ANNIVERSARY TITLE in the same title feelsl ike an immediate slap in the face.
I know it's unfair and it can just be the same as Sonic adventure 2, a game doing it's own thing with at most a bonus level as celebration. But BOY,  after a decade of Anniversary fanservice games, I don't want to see those 2 phrases next to each other.



Man, getting a little tired of the Click bait titles.
Everytime there's a "Iizuka says X and Y will be in the next game!!!!" it ends up that it's just a journalist asking for the posibility of that happening and Iizuka shrugging.



I think the reason why so many (Including me) keep thinking the next 3d Sonic game should be done soon, and should have been in development for a long time, is because I fear we're all suffering from a refusal to believe Sonic Lost world and Sonic Forces are really the only 2 actual games Sonic team made in a decade. Both feel like a B-Team asset-recycle cashgrab inbetween main releases. Yeah, cute game made by the Sonic Team's interns and whatever third party helped you out there, now where's the REAL game you're working on? What were you working on since 2013's Lost world? Forces? Hahaha, cute. Seriously, where's the real game you're working on?
Where's the Sonic Unleashed of this era, hidden in the back while Sonic 06 Forces and Sonic advance 3 Mania are there to keep us silence for a while?

Of course it's becoming blatently clear this isn't the case, but I guess a lot of people including me are still desperatly hoping that's the case.

 

It's supposed to be, but that's one of my gripes with it, Sonic team seems to forget it's a setting. I rarely get the feeling that Green Hill zone is South island's beach strip and more that it's just magic aesthetic that keeps showing up because member first game?

My problem with Green Hill zone is the lack of respect.
If, like what Detective Mike said, they're giving it a plot relevant twist, or it's indeed GENUINLY a setting they're returning too, actual physical South Island, I don't mind.
Heck, if the Green hill aesthetics are just used as "Sonic seasoning" to give settings a more Sonic feeling, I'm fine with it too, like Angel island.
Got all the Green Hill tropes including checkerboards in the rock formation, but it's subtle about it and the level is it's own  identity first.
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But Forces' wasn't a landscape with some checkerboards and abstract grass as a little extra personality, it was nothing but pure raw concentrated MEMBER GREEN HILL ZONE hammered into my eyelids with the subtetly of an oil tanker in a ballerina contest. Spectacularly out of place with the rest of the game to the point of parody. It's the lack of respect or wit that annoys me more then anything. It feels like desperation rather then an artistic direction or even a genuine setting for Sonic.

Same with Shadow's utilization in modern games. I love to see him....When the writers/ game designers have sat down and carefully thought about what he is and why he should be in their game. And not as shiny object to get drooling Adventure fans stumbling in.
Heck, are there any genuine Shadow fans left? He's so pointless and lost all the charm and value the character used to have.
He seems to be written so only people who hate the character can get some visceral ironic enjoyment out of his appearences. But they don't make him ridiculous enough for That.
But hey, as they say, lie often enough and the lie becomes truth.
Keep the Sonic characters out of character for enough games and their new improved personalities subplants the old!
Too bad all their changes are too inconsistent and the stories they're in too bland and boring for any of this to make an impact.


I keep using GHZ and Shadow as the Uber examples, but the games are chuckfull of these thoughtless, witless fanservice crutches. Ruining any joy I may have had in seeing some beloved elements from the past return. There's not a single character, setting or gameplay style I want to see return in fear of how bluntly Sonic Team will completely miss the point in their desperation to find the ultimate "instant money and succes, no effort required" cheat code.

It's frustrating, I LOVE that Sonic games are utilizing the past more and more. But they don't build on the past, they remove it's organs and mount it on the wall as a soulless trophy. I suppose the ONLY GAMEPLAY MATTERS part of the fanbase is more tolerant in seeing their games broken down into a series of soulless ingriedients to be shoved in anywhere as long as roll physics are present.But for someone like me treating it as a thrilling adventure series first and a series of physics simulators second, it's draining my desire to stick around faster and faster.
Boy, I sure hope Classic Sonic randomly shows up in the next game again.

I’m pretty sure that big game ended up like Sonic X-Treme thanks to Boom. But they could start all over again. Which it looks like they’re doing given not even medium-sized games these last few years.

5 hours ago, Marcello said:

That's because Dynamaxing is lame. When people say they want new stuff, it should be automatically understood they mean new, good stuff.

Yeah! Just like the donut level in SLW, the random new pickups in sundry Mario games, etc. 

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Maybe all this time, they've been making the ultimate physics engine to truly bring classic Sonic physics to 3D. Should leave enough time for one year of actual game development.

Will Gen 9 consoles be out by 2021? Ugh, 2021.. time is passing way too fast.

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36 minutes ago, Razule said:

Maybe all this time, they've been making the ultimate physics engine to truly bring classic Sonic physics to 3D. Should leave enough time for one year of actual game development.

Will Gen 9 consoles be out by 2021? Ugh, 2021.. time is passing way too fast.

They're looking to be out next year if there's no delays. That might be why they're not bothering with a major release in 2020. Taking time to get used to the new machines.

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6 hours ago, Wraith said:

I would rather them take another crack at Sonic 06 than Sonic Heroes. 

 

5 hours ago, StaticMania said:

I too want a 4th Sonic Adventure game.

It means less characters though.

I wouldn't mind another in the Style of 06 or either of the Adventures, but I wouldn't want a wholesale remake. Especially not now.

5 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:


Same with Shadow's utilization in modern games. I love to see him....When the writers/ game designers have sat down and carefully thought about what he is and why he should be in their game. And not as shiny object to get drooling Adventure fans stumbling in.
Heck, are there any genuine Shadow fans left? He's so pointless and lost all the charm and value the character used to have.
He seems to be written so only people who hate the character can get some visceral ironic enjoyment out of his appearences. But they don't make him ridiculous enough for That.
But hey, as they say, lie often enough and the lie becomes truth.
Keep the Sonic characters out of character for enough games and their new improved personalities subplants the old!
Too bad all their changes are too inconsistent and the stories they're in too bland and boring for any of this to make an impact.
 

Yeah, I gotta say Shadow is definitely one of the characters I'm least enthused about seeing nowadays.

I mean, I don't know about the hate thing, but it's a theory.

4 hours ago, Jango said:

Forces was supposed to be the Unleashed title, but for God knows what reason they cut budget and allocated the job to a small team. 

Sure shit happened inside Sonic Team and that likely had an impact on the production of Sonic Forces, but let's hope they have their shit together by now.

What's interesting is that, amongst other things, there's apparently a rumor that Forces was actually supposed to be a spinoff game based around the Avatar, but SonicTeam mandated that Sonic and later ClassicSonic be involved as well so it could line up with the anniversary.

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6 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Yeah, my reaction too, seeing NEXT SONIC GAME and ANNIVERSARY TITLE in the same title feelsl ike an immediate slap in the face.
I know it's unfair and it can just be the same as Sonic adventure 2, a game doing it's own thing with at most a bonus level as celebration. But BOY,  after a decade of Anniversary fanservice games, I don't want to see those 2 phrases next to each other.

I think the reason why so many (Including me) keep thinking the next 3d Sonic game should be done soon, and should have been in development for a long time, is because I fear we're all suffering from a refusal to believe Sonic Lost world and Sonic Forces are really the only 2 actual games Sonic team made in a decade. Both feel like a B-Team asset-recycle cashgrab inbetween main releases. Yeah, cute game made by the Sonic Team's interns and whatever third party helped you out there, now where's the REAL game you're working on? What were you working on since 2013's Lost world? Forces? Hahaha, cute. Seriously, where's the real game you're working on?


Where's the Sonic Unleashed of this era, hidden in the back while Sonic 06 Forces and Sonic advance 3 Mania are there to keep us silence for a while? Of course it's becoming blatently clear this isn't the case, but I guess a lot of people including me are still desperatly hoping that's the case.


*More*

First off....Great post! I share a lot of your feelings, particularly the bolded. I actually had to laugh out loud when I read it...but then 5 seconds later felt terrible haha. The timing of announcing an anniversary game after the previous game was an anniversary game...and the last good game before that was an anniversary game....just seems like a lot of thought isn't being given to marketing here.

I think the reason a lot of us feel that way, outside of any evidence, is that Sonic Generations showed what this modern Sonic Team could do when focused and funded. Sure it didn't win any awards but it was clearly the best Sonic game in over a decade, arguably the best 3D Sonic title to date...and I'm aware that's not saying a whole lot but the game was THE love letter to Sonic fans before Mania. The level design, the soundtrack... brilliant stuff. It and Colors were like a defibrillator to the state of the series at the time, which a lot of fans too soon seem to forget. Obvious quality and love. (Hey, no one @me about Colors ok?!  ;) It was a  solidly made game, and the public and media agreed which means something in the videogame market).

Its seems unconscionable that that same team cannot produce something near that level again after doing it twice in a row, and this is forgetting Unleashed which while only half a good game, did get notable praise for its better half.

And really, it IS unconscionable. These games may be difficult, but they're not rocket science.... and ST have already proven they could do it. So there are only three plausible conclusions to take from this IMO:

1) Sonic Team is not actually Sonic Team anymore: This one we know is true based on information that has surfaced in the last few years. Much of Generations staff left for Nintendo after that game, so it makes sense that the braintrust for the next project may not produce something of similar quality.

2)Sonic Team is burned out: This has been rumored to be the case since 2006 actually. Many people have said that the series has been something of a zombie since Yuji Naka left (even before that) and many long timer staffers want to be working on other things. Iizuka has actually admitted this himself, with the Nights series. So this may be a factor and why it seems impossible that we can't get that one title that is the 3D equivalent of Mania in terms of quality. It is no coincidence that Mania happened only after a group of extremely passionate and very capable fans took on the job. (And that's not intended as a slight to ST, who are not some talentless group).

3)There actually was a game in the works: Again, I do kind of think this based on many things I've read since 2013 but its not provable at the moment.

I think we are living in a reality (haha) where some combination of all 3 has happened. 

 

So why do I have any optimism for this series at all? Why haven't I just left?

Well, I definitely have downgraded my fanhood quite a bit in recent years. In the past I would support Sonic with my dollars in most ways I could and keep daily tabs on the series upcoming projects for any news. Since Forces release a lot of steam has left that wagon for me. 

The one and only thing that serves as my lifeblood as a fan right now, is the simple fact that Mania itself exists, and that team who created it exists and wants to work more ( I'm assuming), and that SEGA has clearly noticed what Mania accomplished for them. This means that all is not lost and there is the potential that the next project can see improvement based on what was just learned in the last big outing...Mania and Forces. One was outstanding, the other mediocre. Lots of immediate lessons to learn about what to do and what not to... and lessons spaced so closely together, you just can't miss the point there.

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1 hour ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Much of Generations staff left for Nintendo after that game, so it makes sense that the braintrust for the next project may not produce something of similar quality.

 

Oh shit, really?!

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Like most fans I've grown tired after getting so many titles heavy on nostalgia pandering and would prefer a fully 3D game with 100% new content. However, at this stage I would grudgingly accept more pandering if Sonic Team (or CS2) can finally make a great 3D game.

More than anything I just want a game that I can enjoy replaying over and over, because none of the 3D titles since Sonic Adventure 2 (colours being the exception and that was mainly 2.5D-so probably doesn't even count) gives me enough enjoyment to want to come back to them over and over. That's nearly 20 years without a full 3D Sonic game that I genuinely enjoy replaying, which is incredibly disappointing being a fan of this franchise.

Even with Mania's success and Forces poor reception, I don't have any confidence that Sonic Team can improve the quality of their games even if they're having to continue making them on a small budget-which is the impression I get with SLW & Forces feeling like cheap games.

I'd like to think Mania/Mania Plus success has made a big enough impression on SEGA that they'd want to significantly improve the quality of 3D gameplay going forward. At the very least 2d gameplay from Sonic Team should be a lot better now that Team Mania showed them how it should be done.

Spoiler

...not bloody likely

As for what we might get in 2021? Dunno, maybe we'll get two games like we did in 2017. Not saying it'll be Mania 2 & Gens 2, but I can see SEGA liking the idea of releasing two games-both with cheap budgets (we know Mania was relatively cheap being a 32-bit pixel game and Forces felt cheap-as-fuck). I'd also be happy with just one game even if it's a remake of Sonic Adventure (which I very much doubt it'll be) as long as it's good.

Well, one thing we do know for certain is that the next Sonic game will include the drop-dash ;)

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When you realize the last time Shadow was in-character was in a livestream takeover of all things (not even in IDW nor Overdrive), it’s getting really sad to think of what happened to the writing. 

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2 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

So why do I have any optimism for this series at all? Why haven't I just left?

Well, I definitely have downgraded my fanhood quite a bit in recent years. In the past I would support Sonic with my dollars in most ways I could and keep daily tabs on the series upcoming projects for any news. Since Forces release a lot of steam has left that wagon for me. 

The one and only thing that serves as my lifeblood as a fan right now, is the simple fact that Mania itself exists, and that team who created it exists and wants to work more ( I'm assuming), and that SEGA has clearly noticed what Mania accomplished for them. This means that all is not lost and there is the potential that the next project can see improvement based on what was just learned in the last big outing...Mania and Forces. One was outstanding, the other mediocre. Lots of immediate lessons to learn about what to do and what not to... and lessons spaced so closely together, you just can't miss the point there.

Get out my head mate! That's exactly how I feel about the series right now too.

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I mean, I just find it kind of messed up in a way. People have been saying for years that the key to a good Sonic game was taking more time, but Forces disproved that entirely. We waited 4 years for that game, and it turned out to be one of the hugest disappointments this franchise has seen, even if technically it isn't the worst Sonic game that's out there.

Now we're set to wait 2 more years, after already waiting 2 years, so this is yet another time that we're waiting 4 years for a Sonic game, and there is zero guarantee to what the quality of that game is going be like. The most I think we've heard from takeaways from Forces and Mania is that "gee, that drop dash is kinda nice" and "My son played through Forces so that was nice". I might make a thread elaborating on this further, because there's a whole lot that I think needs to be unpacked, because I'm noticing both good and bad patterns when it comes to the future of this franchise that warrant discussion.

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Can we stop saying that Forces was in development for 4 years as if it is some kind of fact? As far as I know, there's absolutely no evidence that game was actually in production for that long. Seeing as they used a new engine, it's entirely possible they spent a few years fucking about on that before starting production on Forces. Also, as I've said before, Forces has blatantly unfinished elements in its tone and design, indicating it could have been more rushed than has been let on.

Because it's starting to turn into a deflection argument now: "we don't need them to take their time, Forces was in development for 4 years and look how that turned out". It comes across as fan impatience with absolutely no evidence backing it up whatsoever.

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15 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I mean, I just find it kind of messed up in a way. People have been saying for years that the key to a good Sonic game was taking more time, but Forces disproved that entirely. We waited 4 years for that game, and it turned out to be one of the hugest disappointments this franchise has seen, even if technically it isn't the worst Sonic game that's out there.

I think having more time IS necessary to making a great game. Certainly, trying to churn out a new big 3D game in a year or so is not enough time to make something great.

This is partly why forces was so shocking. I was at SXSW 2017 and saw the live gameplay reveal. Instantly I knew that the game was not close to done and it blew my mind. I still gave it a chance before fully writing it off, but I knew instinctively it would not hold up in the same year that Mania came out. ST said they had 4 years to work on this game, but there is absolutely no way possible it took them 4 years to make that game considering how unfinished it was only 7 months before released and the product we actually got. (Well, you suckers that actually bought that sh*t ;) )

Having more time to make a game when you actually have a vision would be incredibly helpful to making a better product. But when you have no idea what you want, you can waste the time. And it sadly does seem like that may have happened. Hopefully theres some part of the story that is missing but if we find out that nope, they're just tired and uninspired, I think that would be as good a time as any to finally check out on this series. (Not encouraging people to do that, just saying.)

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Wait, I recall reading on this very forum that Sonic Team took 2 years to develop the Hedgehog Engine 2, which was used in the game, while the game itself only started in mid 2016.

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1 minute ago, Jango said:

Wait, I recall reading on this very forum that Sonic Team took 2 years to develop the Hedgehog Engine 2, which was used in the game, while the game itself only started in mid 2016.

I think that's very possible, but everyone at the moment are making out it was in production for 4 years. It's maddening.

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1 minute ago, Plasme said:

I think that's very possible, but everyone at the moment are making out it was in production for 4 years. It's maddening.

Well... developing the graphic engine is part of the production, if they so intended to use it on Forces... just saying. Was it used on Team Sonic Racing, tho'? I guess not, that's Sumo's game.

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