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Jack at the Cinema

Tails: between success and disservice of the character

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17 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The werehog doesn't resemble any of the other characters mechanically and conceptually it's a personal arc for Sonic. Nothing about it works if you slot another character in. I always thought this take was bone-headed.

If you think so, that's cool. I'm not denying you that, and to be frank why would I argue with you. That isn't gonna make the werehog come back.

What I am saying is however, the reasons I posted above are kinda why large chunks of the fanbase don't get on with the werehog as much. You can still see it today too, in discussions about unleashed you always see " It should have been knuckles " . I don't think there is a period of time where the werehog is received well unless its a new like toy brand where everyone turns into monsters. Otherwise , I feel like he would have been met with the same, it would have been knuckles. There lanes that people put sonic characters into. And being a bigger super strong character with an edgy design isn't what the lane folks put sonic in and it turned people off. Especially after the fiasco of sonic 06 still being fresh in peoples minds. Again " It should have been knuckles " And while I guess " Mechanically " it may not exactly resemble that. It speaks to a lot that people immediately associated it, with that.

No one gave a crap about a personal arc, they wanted to play as their cool red punch man. And this seemed like a perfect opportunity to do so.

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21 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

That is all I wanted to hear. You are forced, period.

Sonic is the reason people play Sonic games, hence it is called "Sonic the Hedgehog."

Any version of Sonic is better than any other character because he is the cash cow. His game-play mechanics is what people pay for. If there were 5 versions of Sonic, that would be fine because it is Sonic. When you get away from his game-play mechanics, this is when the waters start to get murky...

Sonic > All other characters, period...Because his game-play mechanics is what drives the series, period.

 

5 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

That's Sonic, man. That's your cash cow iconic character.

Would you rather play as Sonic wielding Caliburn in Sonic and the Black Knight, or as Tails in Sonic 3?

Any version of Sonic, is better than any side character because like I sated, "His game-play mechanics is what drives the series, period."  Bringing up characters like the Werehog is a losing argument, because he does not have Sonic's mechanics. See the flaw in your argument?

Sonic Spin-ball & Pinball party was actually Sonic the Hedgehog, no transformation, but they did not have his mechanics, now did they? My point is Sonic's mechanics are what drives the series.

 

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9 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

Sonic goes through a personal arc?

Sorta.

He has his own cockiness in the face of Eggman seemingly admitting defeat to blame for splitting apart the planet, releasing a cyclical World destroyer diety, and transforming himself into a nigh monster. Which results in the people getting possessed, the world nearly being conquered then outright destroyed, and his closest friends not recognizing him at first. And then there's his belief that he caused Chip's amnesia on top of that.

 

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Quote

And while I guess " Mechanically " it may not exactly resemble that. It speaks to a lot that people immediately associated it, with that.

It speaks to a lot of Sonic fans not really thinking about these games they talk about 24/7 at all but I knew that already.

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11 hours ago, Tornado said:

It wouldn't be much of a stretch to guess that the best-selling Sonic game that wasn't packed in with a system in the middle of a vicious console price war had so many fucking shitty friends "crazy toons" you'd fucking drown in them.

 

I'm also guessing the second best selling Sonic game under criteria other than "Sega literally gave it away" probably was the one where Sonic wasn't even playable; but it may have been the game where Sonic made up 1/6th of the game.

SEGA vs Nintendo was probably the most vicious console war of all-time.

If anything, SEGA putting Sonic games on multiple platforms instead of one would benefit or inflate sales.

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1 minute ago, Hurly Burly said:

SEGA vs Nintendo was probably the most vicious console war of all-time.

If anything, SEGA putting Sonic games on multiple platforms instead of one would benefit or inflate sales.

Which raises the question: Do ya'll think Lost World might've worked a little better if it wasn't exclusive to Wii U initially?

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2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Which raises the question: Do ya'll think Lost World might've worked a little better if it wasn't exclusive to Wii U initially?

You mean being sold? No

there were too many issues outside of the console it was on as to why people weren't too keen on that game.

However games like Rise of Lyric would have factually worked better, due to engine issues.

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1 hour ago, Hurly Burly said:

Any version of Sonic, is better than any side character because like I sated, "His game-play mechanics is what drives the series, period." 

Your non-bold statement is directly in contradiction to your bolded statement.

***"Any version of Sonic" includes:***

- Sonic the Werehog

- Sonic with Caliburn

- Lost World Sonic

- Sonic Labyrinth Sonic

***"His gameplay mechanics" includes:***

- Tails from Sonic 2

- Tails or Knuckles from Sonic 3&K

- Tails, Knuckles, Mighty, or Ray from Sonic Mania

 

If Tails from Sonic Mania is better than Sonic from Black Knight, then you cannot argue that any version of Sonic is better than any side character.

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6 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

Any version of Sonic, is better than any side character.

Wrong. To you Sonic is better than anyone else. To other fans there are characters who rank higher than him. Hell the blue hedgehog isn’t even in my top 5 favorites of Sonic characters anymore due to the games dumbing down everyone else in order for Sonic can look good in comparison. That doesn’t make like Sonic more, but fuel my desire for the other characters to be active in the plot and be playable again.

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6 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

Wrong. To you Sonic is better than anyone else. To other fans there are characters who rank higher than him. Hell the blue hedgehog isn’t even in my top 5 favorites of Sonic characters anymore due to the games dumbing down everyone else in order for Sonic can look good in comparison. That doesn’t make like Sonic more, but fuel my desire for the other characters to be active in the plot and be playable again.

But yet, you are on a Sonic forum and not a Tails forum.....

The irony.......

Might wanna take that "Blue hedgehog" silhouette out of your avatar pic and replace it with characters that "Fuel your desire...."

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16 minutes ago, Hurly Burly said:

But yet, you are on a Sonic forum and not a Tails forum.....

The irony.......

Might wanna take that "Blue hedgehog" silhouette out of your avatar pic and replace it with characters that "Fuel your desire...."

1. You’re not the boss of me, I’ll put in an avatar pic when I feel like it.

2. Just because Sonic’s name is the title of the series does not equate to he’s the only person I’m allowed to care for. 

3. Also the topic started on how Tails became a spineless doormat in recent years(but that’s true for everyone else) so it’s only natural fans of non-Sonic characters voice their displeasure about the situation.

Again I don’t hate Sonic, I just hate this bullshit idea he’s the only one I’m allowed to care about.

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17 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

1. You’re not the boss of me, I’ll put in an avatar pic when I feel like it. What I said was not a demand, but suggestion. I kind of imagined you stomping while saying that, slamming on fist on the desk, almost spilling your milk and cookies.

2. Just because Sonic’s name is the title of the series does not equate to he’s the only person I’m allowed to care for. Does not matter whom you care for, all that matters is sales, and Sonic is what drives them.

3. Also the topic started on how Tails became a spineless doormat in recent years(but that’s true for everyone else) so it’s only natural fans of non-Sonic characters voice their displeasure about the situation. You can be a fan of less popular & desirable characters, nobody is saying you cannot.

Again I don’t hate Sonic, I just hate this bullshit idea he’s the only one I’m allowed to care about. Ooohhh, a curse word, Scary......Anyway, you can care about whom you want, but Sonic is what pushes sales.

 

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^You can tell me all day about how "Sonic pushes sales" and "everyone else is less desirable or not as popular", but the thing is I've heard it all before for over a decade and I have passed the point of giving a damn. I haven't been satisfied with the current direction of the games for a long time, and I'm not going to stay silent about it.

I wouldn't be here on this forum if I thought the games were fine, but to me they are stagnant, uninteresting and not worth the $40 price tag. One factor of this is when the games stripped down Sonic to the only playable option. Not only did it get boring after experiencing games with the other characters skills and personalities but when they do show up (Generations,Lost World,Forces) it's a severe downgrade from what came before.

I've became vocal about wanting better for the other characters(i.e. playable) because critics over at IGN aren't going to when they can barely put out a review for a new game without mentioning how 06 ruined their childhood. 

Again just because Sonic is the main selling point is no excuse for everyone else to be extremely mishandled nor does it mean people shouldn't want them to be better than what we're getting now. 

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1 hour ago, Hurly Burly said:

But yet, you are on a Sonic forum and not a Tails forum.....

The irony.......

Might wanna take that "Blue hedgehog" silhouette out of your avatar pic and replace it with characters that "Fuel your desire...."

You've been saying a lot of weird shit throughout this thread, but this just takes the cake. If you can't make an argument without acting like a petulant child and personally attacking somebody, then to be perfectly fucking frank you don't belong here. I'm not going to give you the same warning twice - knock that off.

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19 hours ago, Wraith said:

When did Knuckles or Shadow get the power to stretch their arms?

My thoughts exactly! If you're going to replace Werehog Sonic with another character, the best choice is obviously Chaos.

18 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

 

Any version of Sonic, is better than any side character because like I sated, "His game-play mechanics is what drives the series, period."  Bringing up characters like the Werehog is a losing argument, because he does not have Sonic's mechanics. See the flaw in your argument?

Sonic Spin-ball & Pinball party was actually Sonic the Hedgehog, no transformation, but they did not have his mechanics, now did they? My point is Sonic's mechanics are what drives the series.

 

No, the characters and story are what drive the series.

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20 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

SEGA vs Nintendo was probably the most vicious console war of all-time.

If anything, SEGA putting Sonic games on multiple platforms instead of one would benefit or inflate sales.

I'm doubtful there's anything that would inflate sales more than "free," no. Anything else?

 

9 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

Might wanna take that "Blue hedgehog" silhouette out of your avatar pic and replace it with characters that "Fuel your desire...."

Use a better forum theme.

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5 hours ago, Tornado said:

I'm doubtful there's anything that would inflate sales more than "free," no. Anything else?

 

Use a better forum theme.

Because the majority of Sonic games are free, didn't know that.....

LOL, too easy bruh, too easy...

6 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

My thoughts exactly! If you're going to replace Werehog Sonic with another character, the best choice is obviously Chaos.

No, the characters and story are what drive the series.

Like what? Which story drove the series to commercial success?

I agree with the characters part, because Sonic is the character who drives the series, so you are correct.

 

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46 minutes ago, Hurly Burly said:

Because the majority of Sonic games are free, didn't know that....

A huge portion of the sales of the two best selling games in the series that were bundled with a console almost immediately after they launched would have been free, yes. The 3 games that are close to (or in one case almost certainly is) the best selling in the series without any such asterisk would not have been free, no. The latter games were so loaded with non-Sonic that one of them didn't even have an option to play as him. I shouldn't have to keep track of your own arguments for you.

 

46 minutes ago, Hurly Burly said:

LOL, too easy bruh, too easy...

Since reading apparently isn't, I guess it's good something is.

 

Try again.

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2 hours ago, Tornado said:

A huge portion of the sales of the two best selling games in the series that were bundled with a console almost immediately after they launched would have been free, yes. The 3 games that are close to (or in one case almost certainly is) the best selling in the series without any such asterisk would not have been free, no. The latter games were so loaded with non-Sonic that one of them didn't even have an option to play as him. I shouldn't have to keep track of your own arguments for you.

 

Since reading apparently isn't, I guess it's good something is.

 

Try again.

That explains why the ones which were not bundled sold well, LOL!!!!

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic

I personally had to buy Sonic Adventure game when I got my Dreamcast in 1999.......As-well as Sonic and Knuckles, And Sonic 1........I assume some folks had the original version, so maybe they didn't....But, I have issues reading, so, you mind telling everyone the numbers of those games?

 

I have trouble reading.....Do you mind opening that link and "Reading" some of those best selling Sonic games? You know, so everyone can hear it from your mouth?

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23 minutes ago, Hurly Burly said:

I have trouble reading.....

We can add comprehension to that too, even for the stuff you were trying to argue. I suggest you go back to the beginning of your escapades in this thread so you can have some understanding of the things you were saying. Then you may be able to have understanding of the responses you've been given, so you don't keep making arguments that aren't actually different from what you're responding to.

 

 

 

LOL!!!!!

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40 minutes ago, Tornado said:

We can add comprehension to that too, even for the stuff you were trying to argue. I suggest you go back to the beginning of your escapades in this thread so you can have some understanding of the things you were saying. Then you may be able to have understanding of the responses you've been given, so you don't keep making arguments that aren't actually different from what you're responding to.

 

 

 

LOL!!!!!

No ammo? Good. Now that I shut you down with that sales fact sheet, maybe this thread will get back on track. A history of the arguments I shutdown....

-"Side characters were not forced upon us," I quickly shut that down.

- Conceded I was correct, new argument was: "Sonic is not what drives the series," I shut that down.

-Conceded I was correct, new argument was: "Sonic as the only playable character do not drive the series," shut that down.

-Conceded I was correct, new argument was: "He only did well because it was bundles."  I also shut that down with a fact sheet of Sonic game sales. It turns out, I was correct......

On 9/21/2019 at 1:05 PM, Hurly Burly said:

 

Any version of Sonic, is better than any side character because like I sated, "His game-play mechanics is what drives the series, period."  Bringing up characters like the Werehog is a losing argument, because he does not have Sonic's mechanics. See the flaw in your argument?

Sonic Spin-ball & Pinball party was actually Sonic the Hedgehog, no transformation, but they did not have his mechanics, now did they? My point is Sonic's mechanics are what drives the series.

 

You wanna know why this was always a losing argument for you? PSSST.........The best selling titles are driven by Sonic. It is nonsensical to be arguing this on a "Sonic" Forum, lol. This was my original point, which is why destroying these arguments were so easy....

You will always lose Thunder, because the brand is Sonic, the series is Sonic, the mascot is Sonic, the sales are driven by Sonic. Lets take your last point for example....

3 hours ago, Tornado said:

A huge portion of the sales of the two best selling games in the series that were bundled with a console almost immediately after they launched would have been free, yes. The 3 games that are close to (or in one case almost certainly is) the best selling in the series without any such asterisk would not have been free, no. The latter games were so loaded with non-Sonic that one of them didn't even have an option to play as him. I shouldn't have to keep track of your own arguments for you.

 

Since reading apparently isn't, I guess it's good something is.

 

Try again.

Sonic is what drove people to buy the console lol......

 

This goes back to my original point, he drives the series. You can't win.....This was always a losing argument for you, because your base was a contraindication. The consoles sold, because he was bundled with it.....lol.......proved my point.

 

He drives the series.

 

Can we end this now? I am starting to feel like a bully.......

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33 minutes ago, Hurly Burly said:

No ammo? Good. Now that I shut you down with that sales fact sheet, maybe this thread will get back on track. A history of the arguments I shutdown....

Your arguments ignore what people are saying and dismiss anything to keep flaunting "SONIC ALONE DRIVES SALES". I don't care about any of this, but I'm sick and tired of opening this thread to read your condescending, smarmy replies--something another moderator told you to knock off. Since this is obviously going to be a recurring thing with you I'm going to skip the formalities.

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