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Tangled Jack

Tails: between success and disservice of the character

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1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Yes they do. You just proved it.

In that era of gaming especially.

They become "less" boring by getting those spin-offs.

When Tails gained playable flight in Sonic 3, people alive at the time cared.

For all those sales figures HurlyBurly was throwing around, he neglected to mention that Only-Sonic-Playable was basically dead since 1992, and nobody missed it. Nobody looked back until 2006.

And I think Hurly was spot on when he said people loved the Sonic gameplay formula. People did love the GAMEPLAY, to the extent that you could stick any character there with comparable gameplay and people would still love it. And that's exactly what happened on a number of titles.

If Sonic Colors had starred Tails, or Knuckles, or Amy, or Shadow, or Blaze instead of Sonic while using the same gameplay, people today would be questioning if maybe it was Sonic himself that made the previous games terrible.

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17 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

Like what? Which story drove the series to commercial success?

Well, the Adventure games had good stories, and one of them is the second-best selling Sonic game of all time.

Quote

I agree with the characters part, because Sonic is the character who drives the series, so you are correct.

I said characters with an S. Sonic alone does not drive the series. If he was the only character, things would get boring fast.

13 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

Can we end this now? I am starting to feel like a bully.......

That's because you are one!

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17 hours ago, MainJP said:

Boring characters don't get their own spin-off titles. I'd really like another Tails game as extremely unlikely as that is.

 

1. That's more post-Adventure 2.

2. I was actually referring to the derail.

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10 hours ago, DabigRG said:

1. That's more post-Adventure 2.

2. I was actually referring to the derail.

I was just using your post as an excuse to bring up Tails Adventure's anniversary. 🙂

Just saying, Skypatrol sucks piss but Adventure has some potential with its slower and methodical, exploration based gameplay. A Metroid-style game with Sonic elements? Tails has something here and it would be interesting to see this get a remake.

 

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13 hours ago, MainJP said:

I was just using your post as an excuse to bring up Tails Adventure's anniversary. 🙂

Just saying, Skypatrol sucks piss but Adventure has some potential with its slower and methodical, exploration based gameplay. A Metroid-style game with Sonic elements? Tails has something here and it would be interesting to see this get a remake.

 

Oh, is it the anniversary? That's neat!

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At least tails leaves a huge impact enough to star in more games than Shadow, possibly have more iconic star power brand potential with Sonic and Eggman more than any character.

Shadow? Hes a unlucky fan niche in being popular and his impact is irrelevant and dated, Sega doesnt consider him or put him on equal regards with Sonic as a fan brand, when he stars im a game with Sonic in the plot with Tails or Knuckles or Amy, let me know. Otherwise his few apperances hold no meaning but to push a incresibly misconception that Shadow is a extremely beloved and iconic character, when the fact is hes marketed that way as to distract from the truth, Shadow is an accended extra meant to sell to a huge minority but play no significant role with Sonic leading the story or brand. Hell look at most idw covers, hes not as big as tails and knuckles still paired with modern characters more than himself.

 

Sonic Forces and STR shows me that sega stopped giving a shit about shadow(giving him mass marketing advertisement and not doing anything substancial with it in gameplay or story) and dont take him seriously or look forward to him anymore like his fans do. Hell his fandom treats him with less quality representation than Tails fans do with Rouge the Bat of all people, dont ask why. Shadow is the low brow popular niche character when sonic team is confident that will use to sell something not about only Sonic for a majority of the fan demand.

Tails is at the same level of Sonic, and treated like hes always been treated, the second main character and vital to sonic as a character and as advertising icon of the series with eggman. Hes at least got that going for him, you dont expect anything from him like you do characters like shadow and knuckles, which come off as dissappointing becauae tails is a sidekick amd main suppporting role meant to be latched on sonic not himself as a part of his popularity.

And that somehow works because critical reception tails has more gender neutral fans amd quality fan material that do more than just appeal to women. Shadows active fanbase is one of the most low brow fanbases on the internet and they are defined by nothinf but female yaoi, childish mods, sonic and silver fan groups, and stuff only 14 year old teenagers will like until they grow out of it, meanwhile tails as long lasting popularity with old amd new fans more noticably adults.

This is why sega doesnt have any good things coming out for shadow, they are ashamed of him.

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2 hours ago, Truefan said:

low brow

Literally all characters in this franchise is "Low brow"

 

As a matter of fact almost every Character in every single Platformer ever is "Low Brow" since Platforming Characterizations are pretty mediocre 

 

You would have to be pretty pretentious to think that Tails is some kind of character that only high IQ upper class society can appreciate

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3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

How did the topic shift from Tails to Shadow?

As I said, people apparently just got bored and the tangents became the main talking point.

7 hours ago, Truefan said:

At least tails leaves a huge impact enough to star in more games than Shadow, possibly have more iconic star power brand potential with Sonic and Eggman more than any character.

Shadow? Hes a unlucky fan niche in being popular and his impact is irrelevant and dated, Sega doesnt consider him or put him on equal regards with Sonic as a fan brand, when he stars im a game with Sonic in the plot with Tails or Knuckles or Amy, let me know. Otherwise his few apperances hold no meaning but to push a incresibly misconception that Shadow is a extremely beloved and iconic character, when the fact is hes marketed that way as to distract from the truth, Shadow is an accended extra meant to sell to a huge minority but play no significant role with Sonic leading the story or brand. Hell look at most idw covers, hes not as big as tails and knuckles still paired with modern characters more than himself.

 

Sonic Forces and STR shows me that sega stopped giving a shit about shadow(giving him mass marketing advertisement and not doing anything substancial with it in gameplay or story) and dont take him seriously or look forward to him anymore like his fans do. Hell his fandom treats him with less quality representation than Tails fans do with Rouge the Bat of all people, dont ask why. Shadow is the low brow popular niche character when sonic team is confident that will use to sell something not about only Sonic for a majority of the fan demand.

Tails is at the same level of Sonic, and treated like hes always been treated, the second main character and vital to sonic as a character and as advertising icon of the series with eggman. Hes at least got that going for him, you dont expect anything from him like you do characters like shadow and knuckles, which come off as dissappointing becauae tails is a sidekick amd main suppporting role meant to be latched on sonic not himself as a part of his popularity.

And that somehow works because critical reception tails has more gender neutral fans amd quality fan material that do more than just appeal to women. Shadows active fanbase is one of the most low brow fanbases on the internet and they are defined by nothinf but female yaoi, childish mods, sonic and silver fan groups, and stuff only 14 year old teenagers will like until they grow out of it, meanwhile tails as long lasting popularity with old amd new fans more noticably adults.

This is why sega doesnt have any good things coming out for shadow, they are ashamed of him.

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5 hours ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

Literally all characters in this franchise is "Low brow"

 

As a matter of fact almost every Character in every single Platformer ever is "Low Brow" since Platforming Characterizations are pretty mediocre 

 

You would have to be pretty pretentious to think that Tails is some kind of character that only high IQ upper class society can appreciate

Uh, define low brow.

 

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9 hours ago, Wraith said:

Neither of Tails's spinoff games were financial or critical successes. For all the shit one could give Shadow, his game at least did well on all platforms. 

Shadow is venom.

7 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

How did the topic shift from Tails to Shadow?

The Legendary tails vs shadow war that's been brewing for years. Dramatic music

 

 

To uh Shift, ok. So obviously a lot of people don't like new renditions of multiple characters. But lets say they went in an entirely different direction with tails. What would you do, what do you think works characterization wise. I'm more than willing to field opinions on this, my opinions on what works with shadow and knuckles are more solid. I feel like I can suggest things that some people would at least get where I was coming from with the premise. But while i have criticisms of tails, I don't think I have ever got the best grasp of what people want out of the little guy.

So what do you do , with tails?

 

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I think one major issue I had with Tails in Lost World is that the whole "jealousy" angle comes out of nowhere and doesn't make sense, either within its own narrative or within the broader context of the series. Like...

Cutscene: Sonic is resistant to teaming up with Eggman, while Tails just shrugs and doesn't really care either way.

Next Cutscene: "YOU TRUST EGGMAN MORE THAN ME RAAAAAAAGH"

This is called a contrivance. A character just gets upset for the sake of manufactured drama, not because it makes sense in the story. There probably could have been a way to make "Tails is insecure" a sensible plot point; Maybe he tries to fix something earlier in the game and that gets them into trouble. But as it's written, Tails just comes off as petulant and whiny for no good reason.

(I say this as someone who liked Lost World's story inasmuch as I think it wrote Eggman very well. But Tails in that game, hoo boy. He was a mess.)

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