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Tangled Jack

Tails: between success and disservice of the character

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41 minutes ago, Badnik Zero said:

Has Tails ever had a bad influence?

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Someone he admires like Sonic, but who’s genuinely bad for him, like a bad brother/role model figure? A figure like this could open up some new character dynamics for Tails as well as Sonic. Sonic would be protective, and Tails would be naive and not understand why.

This might be too complex for a game story. Would this work in the comics, as a subplot? Tails takes to some newcomer, but it’s a bad guy?

Hm...sounds interesting. 

Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree that Tails is a little too smart and tried to reasonably begin to fall into that. It would really have to be someone who not only believably passes for a decent bloke, but also definitely appeals to him to begin with. 

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I mentioned this in the KO crossover thread, but I really liked how well it established Tails` role there. He may not be as good as Sonic, but he's much more socially adept and able to notice things that Sonic wouldn't as well as just being more humble about it in general. And all of that while still being exacerbated at Sonic's ego trips. 

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The KO crossover actually made me consider Tails again as a character… he could be a more grounded personality-character, the voice of reason, and yeah, someone to counter Sonic's ego. Still think that the crossover and Boom are the best Tails in a while. In IDW he's brave and useful, sure, but I have yet to see him shine as a character, so well' see… I hope justice will be made for Tails in the games… one day.

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7 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

He's already that.

He's just not written well.

I did not like him in Lost World, like… I'm still not sure about which characterization is worse between SLW and Forces, probably SLW because at least in Forces there was an interesting situation with his (apparent) breakdown after Sonic's defeat, he was just written as a coward, meanwhile in Lost World he was just an arrogant and unlikeable character IMO. And I don't mind how he was written in Colors and Generations, even though that was just passable as writing, he was still his own person, rather than Sonic's puppy dog, which made me happy.

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1 hour ago, Tangled Jack said:

 In IDW he's brave and useful, sure, but I have yet to see him shine as a character, so well' see… I hope justice will be made for Tails in the games… one day.

Well yeah. He gets one chapter then disappears til several chapters later and so on. Honestly no one can really shine much outside of like Sonic, Tangle, and Whisper as they're the only ones who are being given more. Because of the rotating cast it's difficult to really do much as the next issue will switch up things and basically throw in someone else to just be there and then left behind.

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4 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

Well yeah. He gets one chapter then disappears til several chapters later and so on. Honestly no one can really shine much outside of like Sonic, Tangle, and Whisper as they're the only ones who are being given more. Because of the rotating cast it's difficult to really do much as the next issue will switch up things and basically throw in someone else to just be there and then left behind.

As much as I love the comics, I agree. Some characters deserve more, at least more appearances, Tails being the obvious example.

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Honestly, ever since the days of Sonic X, the franchise as a whole seem to have forgotten that Tails can actually fight. Sure he can of course still attack enemies when he is a playable character, but the narratives often seem to imply that he is just this weak little kid who can't fight anything unless he has a weapon at hand.

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6 hours ago, batson said:

...but the narratives often seem to imply that he is just this weak little kid who can't fight anything unless he has a weapon at hand.

I'm glad someone finally said it...(again)

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The thing I like about Mario?

Mario games are Mario games.

 

Sonic tends to steer off into a multitude of characters and game-play styles. I do not dislike tails, but if he were to get a spinoff, so be it. My issue is how convoluted Sonic games are.

With that said, I have no issue with any of his roles. He is a lot like Robin; sometimes independent, sometimes in distress. My issue is how we are forced to play as other characters such as him in Sonic titles.

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8 hours ago, batson said:

Honestly, ever since the days of Sonic X, the franchise as a whole seem to have forgotten that Tails can actually fight. Sure he can of course still attack enemies when he is a playable character, but the narratives often seem to imply that he is just this weak little kid who can't fight anything unless he has a weapon at hand.

And even then it's a lot of the time something you find in the room....which Sonic Boom did a bunch of.

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5 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

My issue is how we are forced to play as other characters such as him in Sonic titles.

None of this.

There's always that one person who says stuff like this and it never makes any kind of sense.

Especially when there are instances of people who even include games where they play exactly the same.

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17 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

The thing I like about Mario?

Mario games are Mario games.

 

Sonic tends to steer off into a multitude of characters and game-play styles. I do not dislike tails, but if he were to get a spinoff, so be it. My issue is how convoluted Sonic games are.

With that said, I have no issue with any of his roles. He is a lot like Robin; sometimes independent, sometimes in distress. My issue is how we are forced to play as other characters such as him in Sonic titles.

Aside from Buddy in Sonic Forces, we haven't been able (let alone forced) to play as other characters for over a decade. Furthermore, not everyone's favorite character is Sonic. I for one am tired of being forced to play as him all the time.

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7 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Aside from Buddy in Sonic Forces, we haven't been able (let alone forced) to play as other characters for over a decade. Furthermore, not everyone's favorite character is Sonic. I for one am tired of being forced to play as him all the time.

And Shadow. 

Also, technically Tails, Orbot, and Cubot for a minigame. 

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1 hour ago, Splash the Otter said:

I for one am tired of being forced to play as him all the time.

image.thumb.png.2eca48b8c71bc53aff72165730568365.png

...bruuuuuh

If you don't like playing as Sonic in Sonic games, you should probably find a different game series to play, then. lol

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I mean....I got tired of playing as Dante and I guess Capcom agreed because every DMC game since 3 has different main characters to choose from. 

I guess if you're tired of Sonic you can go and play Mario...where you can usually choose your character from the start now. Or maybe the new Crash games where you can play as Coco. Resident Evil, maybe? That new Kirby game that lets you play as like the entire extended cast? 

Sonic Mania? 

Maybe it's a you problem...or maybe Sonic games have been lacking in terms of basic features and avenues for self expression for a long time now and you have a right to complain about it.

Yeah it's probably the second thing. 

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Hasn't this entire fourm complained for years about solo Sonic. Like literal years. I don't see how hearing someone say they're suck of playing Sonic is news.

But I'm of the opinion that is the games weren't poop/3 hours long this wouldn't be as big of a issue as is. 

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If Sonic was the only playable character from the beginning, the complaints about him wouldn't be justified.

But there's been an additional playable character in every game up until Unleashed, which is half the series' lifetime.

 

Don't think its unreasonable to be tired of only playing as Sonic since that never set that precedent before.

 

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Nobody is saying having multiple playable characters is a bad thing. But a game isn't obligated to provide multiple playable characters. Yes, some Mario games let you play as characters other than Mario...and some don't. Odyssey only lets you play as Mario but it's still a spectacular game, a guaranteed buy for any fan of the series. Maybe the next main Mario game will have multiple playable characters and maybe it won't. If you're a fan of the series you have to come to terms with that, decide how much of an issue it is for you and whether or not you're going to continue following the series, because Mario is always going to be the main character, he's always going to be there, and the number of playable characters is always going to fluctuate.

And it's the same thing with Sonic. Yes, this series has gone through a longer drought of playable characters than Mario, I don't blame people for simply wanting to play as someone else some of the time. But the main character is always going to be the main character, Sonic is always going to get more focus than Tails or Knuckles or Shadow or Rouge or whoever your favorite character happens to be. If you're this burnt out on him, keeping your attention focused on a series about him doesn't seem like the best use of your time.

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^ That's kind of where I'm at with this, too. 

Sonic is the main character, the series namesake, so he's going to be the primary character and sometimes the only character. 

I also think I'm less sympathetic to that plight these days because it's not really been the case lately? Like, seriously, the last three major releases have offered other playable characters in some form. Mania Plus has four fully-fleshed out heroes to play as aside from Sonic, Forces lets you play as your deam fursona and Shadow (and the extended cast all had a part to play in the story for once), and Team Sonic Racing brings back some Modern-era favorites. Every mobile title lets you play as other characters besides Sonic. The next Olympics game will obviously let you play as characters apart from Sonic, too. 

I'm looking at a list of Sonic games organized by year, and especially counting spin-offs and mobile games, the overwhelming majority of them feature Sonic's friends as playable. The last major Sonic game to not let you play as anyone besides Sonic was, what, Lost World? From 2013? 6 years ago? And before that was Sonic Generations (Sonic 4 Episode 2 if you discount Tails in multiplayer mode) which was 2011-2012. Of course, if you have it on PC, you can play as whoever the heck you want with modding, but we can ignore that. All of the Boom games had Tails, Knuckles, Amy and Sticks in some fashion. Even going back further before Sonic Colors and Sonic 4, Sonic and the Black Knight let you play as Ye Olde Cosplayin' Blaze, Knuckles and Shadow. Before Black Knight was Secret Rings (ignoring it's party mode) and Unleashed, and a majority of the games pre-Unleashed were infamous for including characters that didn't need to be there. 

It's not as big of a drought as people think it is. It really isn't. So when someone says they're tired of playing as Sonic, I have to admit I don't really empathize with that plight, and many of the games that don't include him aren't usually that good anyway, so there's that.

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Half of those games are mobile games or spin offs, not main 3D platformers.

I'm pretty sure when people say they wanna play as more characters, its specifically the 3D main titles. Playing in Mania doesn't mean much if you're not a fan of classic Sonic and 2D gameplay in general, so that's a moot point.

 

Yes Sonic will always be the primary main character with the most focus, but if the series let you play as other characters for once again, half of its life span, and then its removed without warning, I'm pretty sure people have a right to be upset about that.

 

Sonic isn't Mario, so that comparison holds no water. People want a feature that was a mainstay in the series for years to return, don't see what's so difficult to understand about that...and if you can't empathize, then there's really no reason to care what others want in this case; if you never cared about playing as anyone besides Sonic to begin with, why are you trying to downplay the feelings of those who do, or shouldn't make a difference to your personal enjoyment either way.

 

 

And I say this as someone who doesn't care much anymore myself, but I don't care either way at this point. 

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So, either I missed that specific stipulation or we're moving the goal posts? Quite frankly, it seems to me that non-Sonic representation is about as high as it's ever been, and saying "well, if you discount the vast majority of Sonic in interactive media" and bend to that specific genre (which has pretty much never been Sonic's strong point to begin with, despite how high profile Sega wants to make it) seems like a cop-out.

I don't care to be empathetic anymore (besides being a jaded Sonic fan for decades) because operating on what you feel like you want doesn't always translate to what's best or practical. Could Forces have had an option to play as other main characters? Maybe. But Forces is steaming hot trash with or without the extended cast being playable, so what's the point? Lost World was a mess, too, and adding other characters wouldn't have fixed it. Sonic Boom games had playable extras, and they were mediocre at best. 

I stand by my point that most Sonic games, 3D or not, feature multiple playable characters. They are getting representation. Not being playable in a big high profile 3D Sonic, especially when those tend to be awful, isn't a big deal. So unless you don't actually care about games being good and just want to play as Cream the Rabbit or something, there's no reason to not pick up a cell phone and play that. Ideally the major Sonic releases would have more characters and also be fun to play, but it's slim pickings for the Sonic franchise, and it always has been. Don't wanna count Mania because it's a throwback and not "huge" 3D adventure? Sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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