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Tails: between success and disservice of the character

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1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

So, either I missed that specific stipulation or we're moving the goal posts? Quite frankly, it seems to me that non-Sonic representation is about as high as it's ever been, and saying "well, if you discount the vast majority of Sonic in interactive media" and bend to that specific genre (which has pretty much never been Sonic's strong point to begin with, despite how high profile Sega wants to make it) seems like a cop-out.

I don't care to be empathetic anymore (besides being a jaded Sonic fan for decades) because operating on what you feel like you want doesn't always translate to what's best or practical. Could Forces have had an option to play as other main characters? Maybe. But Forces is steaming hot trash with or without the extended cast being playable, so what's the point? Lost World was a mess, too, and adding other characters wouldn't have fixed it. Sonic Boom games had playable extras, and they were mediocre at best. 

I stand by my point that most Sonic games, 3D or not, feature multiple playable characters. They are getting representation. Not being playable in a big high profile 3D Sonic, especially when those tend to be awful, isn't a big deal. So unless you don't actually care about games being good and just want to play as Cream the Rabbit or something, there's no reason to not pick up a cell phone and play that. Ideally the major Sonic releases would have more characters and also be fun to play, but it's slim pickings for the Sonic franchise, and it always has been. Don't wanna count Mania because it's a throwback and not "huge" 3D adventure? Sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

How is it a cop out to want representation in the flagship games of the series, and not minor spin offs? If people simply wanted to use them in whatever game or media, there wouldn't be so many people complaining to begin with. It's always been the main platformers because that's the primary representation the series used the cast for, once again, HALF OF IT'S LIFESPAN. 

And if you're that jaded and cynical about the series, then I'm honestly questioning why you choose to continue involving yourself with it and why you feel the need to rain on everyone else's parade. Most older members have become so jaded and cynical on this site that we may have forgotten that some of us didn't act much differently 10 or so years ago, but I guess being older and bitter gives us the right to talk down to those damn kids for wanting to see their favorite character in a series about a blue hedgehog who runs fast :V

And that's all well and good for you, but then that goes back to my point if you don't care one way or another, why do you feel the need to talk down to those who do? If you don't care if Sonic remains the only playable character or not, then why does this conversation matter to you at all? It shouldn't make a difference either way and the only thing I can see that you're trying to accomplish is to make everyone else as jaded and cynical as you are about the series. 

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I don't like technicalities. Let's put this in terms some of you can understand. again. 

Classic Sonic has been in Sonic games for the better part of a decade now with his aesthetic and even a lot of the mechanics being used for even longer. Despite this, Sonic 4, Generations, and Forces aren't considered legitimate entries in the classic series but Sonic Mania is. This is a no-brainer to most of you so I'd like you to provide modern fans the same courtesey and listen to us when we say that not every half assed attempt at what we want satisfied us. 

Or even better: if you don't actually care, don't comment. Classic Sonic fans are the last ones that should be mocking people for investing attention in a series that won't cater to their whims. Go back to talking down to kids on Twitter or something because we're not putting up with it here.

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3 hours ago, Soniman said:

Hasn't this entire fourm complained for years about solo Sonic. Like literal years. I don't see how hearing someone say they're suck of playing Sonic is news.

But I'm of the opinion that is the games weren't poop/3 hours long this wouldn't be as big of a issue as is. 

 

1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

So, either I missed that specific stipulation or we're moving the goal posts?

If it helps, take your pick

 Tails: between success and disservice of the character - Page 6 - Green Hills Zone - SSMB

 

 

 

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On 8/9/2019 at 9:03 AM, Indigo Rush said:

 

...bruuuuuh

If you don't like playing as Sonic in Sonic games, you should probably find a different game series to play, then. lol

This isn’t about hating Sonic, people also to want play as other characters and stuff like Olympics and TSR isn’t gonna cut it

The problem of go play another game series is that Knuckles, Amy, Rouge, Shadow, etc aren’t showing up in non-Sega games where I can play as them so that suggestion is a load of crap. 

Sonic is the main character but that doesn’t stop me and others for wanting to play as other characters in an big budget 3D game so I’ll keep asking whenever I get the chance and I don’t need your approval.

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To me it's just...why want something when I know it's gonna suck? It's defeatest I know but Sonic Team can't even make a good game when it's just Sonic anymore, what the hell do I get out of them adding playable characters outside of just there being more of the game to not like (as Classic and Avatar in Forces has proven quite handedly)? Until ST can prove to me they have  a solid foundation of a game to build off of, my want for more playable characters is at a all time low and I'm quite sated with them being restricted to spin offs and shit in the mean time . At least TSR was alright. 

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I"m over the defeatist stuff. There's no point in discussing the series at all if thats how you really feel.

I have a good feeling about the series going forward, so now is the time more than ever to put the word out about whatever features are important to us. 

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I'm not going to go as far and say that I have a good feeling about the series, but I'm kind of tired of being so negative all of the time; it does nothing and only serves to make me more miserable. Being miserable sucks, so screw that noise. 

 

I will always have my reservations about the series, but I'm willing to be open-minded and see what happens at this point. Because let's be real, what the fuck do we even have to lose any more? Nobody respects this series regardless of what it does so there's no point in expecting the worse. 

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Alright, gang. Put the noose away. The longer I type this, the more posts keep showing up.

I'm in the wrong here.

I admit that I'm being a prat and genuinely apologize for talking down to some of you for wanting this. I mean, I definitely used to feel that way not that long ago. Being labeled a cynical Classic fan is not unjustified, I've admitted on many occasions that I think they're by and large the better parts of Sonic's history.

I'm not saying these things because I'm wearing a fancy Modern Sonic badge either, I legit feel this way. For me, I've gone through all of those motions so many times, I find it to be futile given the cards we've been dealt regarding Sonic Team. But you're right, that doesn't mean I get a pass to tell people not to want it. 

Let me give some perspective on why I'm heavy-handed with this: I'm happy to see the extended cast playable in a majority of the games. To me, that's more than enough evidence that the people responsible for them have actually been listening and taking into account everyone's desire to play as Sonic's friends, and the reason we don't see them playable in major 3D titles is because they still don't have the proper foundation for it. It's a symptom of a bigger issue, and I think it's shallow to ask for the roof before we get the frame built. It's also been decades since Adventure, a game that didn't even execute on multiple playable characters in the most graceful way in the first place, so I don't exactly trust it to pan out well. 

Basically, we've all been in this mess for so long, I would think by now we know better. But I can agree that it's fine to hold onto that hope and keep asking for it, or at least discussing it. 

...that said, I still find the wording "I'm tired of playing as Sonic" in a series primarily about Sonic a little weird. But I get what you're driving at. Believe me.

I had taken a break from posting for a bit, but I guess I need to take a longer one. Peace out!

Spoiler

Wasn't this topic about Tails, anyway? Oops. 

 

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I appreciate you owning up to that there. I understand your mindset but I really disagree with it and I'll try explaining why in a way that's less aggressive. 

If sega wants to charge a competitive price for a house, I want the whole house. I don't want to choose between the foundation or the roof. I skipped Lost World and Forces because I didn't want to choose. I bought Sonic Mania on launch day because I didn't have to. 

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Good on you for owning up, mad respect on that. Legit, because I know it's difficult given the current situation, so it's not like your position is unjustified. 

 

That said, I don't think it's shallow at all for people to want the basics of what's being offered in every other comparable video game series, nor do I think people should stop wanting it either. Mania established that you CAN have a complete Sonic game with little to no shortcomings; all it takes is for somebody to actually give a damn. And if nobody at Sega or ST care enough, then they need to bring in somebody who does.

The fact that people STILL are making this much of a fuss in 2019 shows that people do in fact still like Sonic and want what's best for him, and for the series to get the respect it deserves by people who care enough to do it justice. 

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48 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I appreciate you owning up to that there. I understand your mindset but I really disagree with it and I'll try explaining why in a way that's less aggressive. 

If sega wants to charge a competitive price for a house, I want the whole house. I don't want to choose between the foundation or the roof. I skipped Lost World and Forces because I didn't want to choose. I bought Sonic Mania on launch day because I didn't have to. 

 

14 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Good on you for owning up, mad respect on that. Legit, because I know it's difficult given the current situation, so it's not like your position is unjustified. 

 

That said, I don't think it's shallow at all for people to want the basics of what's being offered in every other comparable video game series, nor do I think people should stop wanting it either. Mania established that you CAN have a complete Sonic game with little to no shortcomings; all it takes is for somebody to actually give a damn. And if nobody at Sega or ST care enough, then they need to bring in somebody who does.

The fact that people STILL are making this much of a fuss in 2019 shows that people do in fact still like Sonic and want what's best for him, and for the series to get the respect it deserves by people who care enough to do it justice. 

Also I don't know. I hate bringing this up, but these things are becoming more and more intricate. But there are currently 3d fan creations with more fun movement than the last several 3d sonic games. More so with other playable characters. Now i'm not saying " GIVE EM A WHOLE VIDEO GAME " I know first hand now... video games are hard and having a phsyics test isn't level design. But The intricacies  of these fan creations are getting at least to me some core tenants of like what I like about gameplay involving sonic with multiple characters. Being it just seems fun to move around and you can do cool shit. I have seen some fan creations where they have incorporated the characters whole tropes into the 3d space where sega hasn't.

So like the metaphor for the foundation is used,  but not only do I agree I expect more and want a whole house and they have more than enough time to figure something out or at least hire an architect, there are folks out here who have the foundation in their spare time. There's a joint where shadow's boost stops time and it casauses all the enemies to get hit in slow mo and you can homing attack of the slow mo-ed enemies to get to higher shit. Folks out here got the extra foundation. There are folks out here who got the tails lifting up sonic mechanic to look fun in 3d.

Its making it worse for me persnally because now i'm questioning why can't we have a foundation

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Sometimes it feels possible that for the 30th anniversary, there is going to be a slight reboot to the Modern side of things, and, including Tails as playable would be a key part of that! 

One would think that they have been workshopping possible Tails gameplay styles in the background for quite a while now.  It is just that the specific games they decided to produce haven't been compatible with it! 

Semi-Open World, majestic (Breath of the Wild inspired to some extent: although of course, Emerald Coast among other parts of Adventure was BotW-tier majesty in 98/99!) Sonic is coming, seemingly a matter of when, not if, and no character from the series' history fits better in such an environment as Tails!! :) :)   

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21 hours ago, Diogenes said:

If you don't want to play as a series' main character you should probably focus your attention on a different series.

 

21 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

image.thumb.png.2eca48b8c71bc53aff72165730568365.png

...bruuuuuh

If you don't like playing as Sonic in Sonic games, you should probably find a different game series to play, then. lol

First of all I mean being forced to play as Sonic and only Sonic, when I could be playing as characters I actually like instead. As for finding another series, why don't you point me toward a series that isn't Sonic but I can still play as my favorite Sonic characters?

21 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Sonic is always going to get more focus than Tails or Knuckles or Shadow or Rouge or whoever your favorite character happens to be. If you're this burnt out on him, keeping your attention focused on a series about him doesn't seem like the best use of your time.

Then the other characters should all have their own series too!

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On 8/8/2019 at 7:47 PM, StaticMania said:

None of this.

There's always that one person who says stuff like this and it never makes any kind of sense.

Especially when there are instances of people who even include games where they play exactly the same.

Just because it does not make sense to you because you may like to play as others characters, does not mean you have to throw a tantrum with everyone you disagree with.

You were forced in SA 1 & 2; period. In the 90s, this was not a thing. Oddly, the 90s games were considered the best. Sonic CD.

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On 8/9/2019 at 7:45 AM, Splash the Otter said:

Aside from Buddy in Sonic Forces, we haven't been able (let alone forced) to play as other characters for over a decade. Furthermore, not everyone's favorite character is Sonic. I for one am tired of being forced to play as him all the time.

There is no aside, lol, you are forced. Include him.

What you are saying kind of sounds like this....

 

"Aside from the very last mainstream Sonic game they released, notwithstanding the ones of this past decade, we were not forced to play as other characters"

Eh? That is a lot of variables...

It kind of sounds like we were.

 

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3 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

There is no aside, lol, you are forced. Include him.

What you are saying kind of sounds like this....

 

"Aside from the very last mainstream Sonic game they released, notwithstanding the ones of this past decade, we were not forced to play as other characters"

Eh? That is a lot of variables...

It kind of sounds like we were.

 

No, he was saying able to let alone forced.

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17 hours ago, Hurly Burly said:

There is no aside, lol, you are forced. Include him.

What you are saying kind of sounds like this....

 

"Aside from the very last mainstream Sonic game they released, notwithstanding the ones of this past decade, we were not forced to play as other characters"

Eh? That is a lot of variables...

It kind of sounds like we were.

 

You're missing my point. Buddy was a breath of fresh air because he wasn't Sonic. I and many others are tired of only having Sonic to play as.

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I think it's weird if somebody wants to play a Sonic game but doesn't like Sonic, but wanting to play as other characters besides him is definitely fine, I don't get the issue, it's perfectly normal, it does get tiring when there is only one character like Mario or Link who also don't have much personality, so that's even more limiting than our lovable douche Sonic.

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There's a bigger Chance that Zelda will be playable in the BOTW sequel than Tails ever being playable again

Let that sink in, the Overly Conservative Nintendo nowadays is more of a Risk taker than SEGA the company that prides itself on being edgier than Nintendo

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5 minutes ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

There's a bigger Chance that Zelda will be playable in the BOTW sequel than Tails ever being playable again

Let that sink in, the Overly Conservative Nintendo nowadays is more of a Risk taker than SEGA the company that prides itself on being edgier than Nintendo

Team Sonic Racing.

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19 minutes ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

SEGA the company that prides itself on being edgier than Nintendo

Yeah, in the 90s. That's not really a thing anymore, and you could argue it never was. Being shocked that Sega isn't trying to outdo Nintendo is like being shocked that you can still eat Trix as an adult. Sometimes, adverts stop being relevant.

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