Tails: between success and disservice of the character

[ComeAsYouAre]

33 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Team Sonic Racing.

Spinoff

I meant in a 3D mainline game

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

Spinoff

I meant in a 3D mainline game

Sonic Lost World.

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

There's a bigger Chance that Zelda will be playable in the BOTW sequel than Tails ever being playable again

That's not even remotely true.

[StaticMania]

That "could" happen, but there's not much reason to believe it will.

Give it 3 games and if Tails isn't playable before the 3rd game, that's a hard sell.

[ComeAsYouAre]

8 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Sonic Lost World.

Tails isn't playable there

[Red Hot Jack]

2 hours ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

Tails isn't playable there

He is talking about that circus minigame and the extra Tornado stage. So I guess that counts.

9 hours ago, Diogenes said:

That's not even remotely true.

It is more likely for me due to what we have seen in the teaser, Zelda is heavily involved in the sequel, plus people have wanted a female playable character for a long time.

[BaronGrackle]

For many of us, Sonic has been the least interesting character in the series since 1992. Not even joking.

There's a reason that by the time Sonic Adventure came out, the story was about Knuckles. And when Sonic Adventure 2 came out, the story was about a new character named Shadow. And people loved that. Because the '90s had built an infrastructure of Tails being the one who flies, Knuckles being the one with glide/climb to compensate for his low jump, and Sonic being the "regular guy". It continued in the Sonic Advance games. Do you guys actually play as Sonic in the Sonic Advance games? Honestly, what's the appeal?

With SA and SA2, a story about Sonic just wasn't considered interesting. It went so far in that direction that Sonic barely had a role in Sonic 06... and by pure coincidence that game was an unfinished mess that nobody enjoyed playing. Maybe things went to far.

[StaticMania]

23 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

Do you guys actually play as Sonic in the Sonic Advance games? Honestly, what's the appeal?

This seems like a pointless question...

You'd play as him for the same reason as in the classics, he doesn't have core moves that slows him down.

He's fast, which is enough for people who wanna play the game that way.

[BaronGrackle]

19 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

This seems like a pointless question...

You'd play as him for the same reason as in the classics, he doesn't have core moves that slows him down.

He's fast, which is enough for people who wanna play the game that way.

(looks it up) Oh. Sonic really is faster than other characters in Sonic Advance.

Sorry about that. It wasn't that way in the classics, not with Tails around.

[StaticMania]

I didn't say that because he's got the fastest top speed, I said that because Tails, Knuckles, Cream, and Amy all have abilities that are inherently slow.

Tails, Cream, & Knuckles, you play them like Sonic...or you use their flight (or Gliding) which kills their momentum. And Amy's the oddball.

This is ignoring all the B button abilities which were entirely useless.

[BaronGrackle]

4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Tails, Cream, & Knuckles, you play them like Sonic...or you use their flight (or Gliding) which kills their momentum.

Or... you play Sonic LIKE THEM, except with fewer abilities.

[StaticMania]

Just now, BaronGrackle said:

Or... you play Sonic LIKE THEM, except with fewer abilities.

It's the Advance games...you said.

No one has fewer abilities.

Except wait...Sonic, Knuckles, and Amy have a stomp type move when pressing B in the air. Incredible.

[BaronGrackle]

21 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

It's the Advance games...you said.

No one has fewer abilities.

Except wait...Sonic, Knuckles, and Amy have a stomp type move when pressing B in the air. Incredible.

Fine, you got me. I never played through the Advance games and made too many assumptions based on the Genesis titles.

I'm glad Sonic got some distinction.

[Red Hot Jack]

1 hour ago, BaronGrackle said:

For many of us, Sonic has been the least interesting character in the series since 1992. Not even joking.

Honestly, speak for yourself, I love Sonic, as a character as well as gameplay. I speak for myself too, let's hear the others.

[BaronGrackle]

20 minutes ago, Tangled Jack said:

Honestly, speak for yourself, I love Sonic, as a character as well as gameplay. I speak for myself too, let's hear the others.

You can watch the MTV special about Sonic & Knuckles in 1994, and see the players picking Knuckles. Or you can time travel to my elementary playground and hear people talk about the same thing. Or you can look to Sonic Adventure's later release, and realize how much of that game revolves around Angel Island and Knuckles... recognize how much of that was for the sake of fans.

When I've hated on Shadow in the past, I was notified by people who grew up in SA2 times just how popular Shadow was, how their first choice in SA2 was Team Dark both for him and Eggman. But if I didn't believe them, I could look forward to Sonic 06 and see how irrelevant Sonic himself had become. A lot of that was also following the flow of fandom.

I mean, Sonic's okay as a character. But for a huuuge chunk of Classic and Dreamcast history, he was NOT the sole appeal. Maybe you liked him the best. But it was even money that you liked several other characters just a little more.

[Red Hot Jack]

Just now, BaronGrackle said:

You can watch the MTV special about Sonic & Knuckles in 1994, and see the players picking Knuckles. Or you can time travel to my elementary playground and see the same thing. Or can look to Sonic Adventure's later release, and realize how much of that game revolves around Angel Island and Knuckles.

When I've hated on Shadow in the past, I was notified by people who grew up in SA2 times just how popular Shadow was, how their first choice in SA2 was Team Dark both for him and Eggman. But if I didn't believe them, I could look forward to Sonic 06 and see how irrelevant Sonic himself had become.

I mean, Sonic's okay as a character. But for a huuuge chunk of Classic and Dreamcast history, he was NOT the sole appeal. Maybe you liked him the best. But it was even money that you liked several other characters just a little more.

I don't need proof. But if you want it, Sonic was #10 most popular video game character of all time on Guinness World Records poll. Also according to another poll he's the most popular in England.

[BaronGrackle]

Just now, Tangled Jack said:

I don't need proof. But if you want it, Sonic was #10 most popular video game character of all time on Guinness World Records poll. Also according to another poll he's the most popular in England.

Sure, his name's on all the games.

And when set against other universe characters, he's going to poll a lot better nowadays than he would in the '90s or '00s.

[ComeAsYouAre]

59 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

You can watch the MTV special about Sonic & Knuckles in 1994, and see the players picking Knuckles. Or you can time travel to my elementary playground and hear people talk about the same thing. Or you can look to Sonic Adventure's later release, and realize how much of that game revolves around Angel Island and Knuckles... recognize how much of that was for the sake of fans.

That was a different time when Knuckles was a hot new star

[Kuzu]

Trying to argue Sonic isn't popular in his own series is stupid. He tops every poll and being the most basic character of the roster means people are more likely to pick him on an initial playthrough.

[DabigRG]

8 hours ago, Tangled Jack said:

He is talking about that circus minigame and the extra Tornado stage. So I guess that counts.

It is more likely for me due to what we have seen in the teaser, Zelda is heavily involved in the sequel, plus people have wanted a female playable character for a long time.

Thanks.

And Medli.

4 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

 

There's a reason that by the time Sonic Adventure came out, the story was about Knuckles. And when Sonic Adventure 2 came out, the story was about a new character named Shadow. And people loved that. 

With SA and SA2, a story about Sonic just wasn't considered interesting. It went so far in that direction that Sonic barely had a role in Sonic 06... and by pure coincidence that game was an unfinished mess that nobody enjoyed playing. Maybe things went to far.

Essentially what happened.

4 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

For many of us, Sonic has been the least interesting character in the series since 1992. Not even joking.

 

 

2 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

You can watch the MTV special about Sonic & Knuckles in 1994, and see the players picking Knuckles. Or you can time travel to my elementary playground and hear people talk about the same thing. Or you can look to Sonic Adventure's later release, and realize how much of that game revolves around Angel Island and Knuckles... recognize how much of that was for the sake of fans.

When I've hated on Shadow in the past, I was notified by people who grew up in SA2 times just how popular Shadow was, how their first choice in SA2 was Team Dark both for him and Eggman. But if I didn't believe them, I could look forward to Sonic 06 and see how irrelevant Sonic himself had become. A lot of that was also following the flow of fandom.

I mean, Sonic's okay as a character. But for a huuuge chunk of Classic and Dreamcast history, he was NOT the sole appeal. Maybe you liked him the best. But it was even money that you liked several other characters just a little more.

That's something that seems to happen with many series: the main main character ends up becoming the norm or "safe" and/or feeling vanilla or "boring" while the other characters feel more distinct, motivated, developed, complex, etc.

 

53 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Trying to argue Sonic isn't popular in his own series is stupid. He tops every poll and being the most basic character of the roster means people are more likely to pick him on an initial playthrough.

That is true as well.

Unless you really mess up and/or unexpectedly hit it out of the park, the main character is gonna be the most recognized, while some of the other characters are probably just gonna get more talk.

[BaronGrackle]

1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

being the most basic character of the roster means people are more likely to pick him on an initial playthrough.

I don't think this was true when S&K came out.

Was it true when SA2 came out? I wasn't around. But I've heard multiple people tell me they tried Team Dark before Team Hero, either for the first chance to play Eggman or for one of the new characters.

 

I'm not saying Sonic isn't popular. But he's far from the sole successful factor in his franchise's history.

[Kuzu]

4 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

I don't think this was true when S&K came out.

Was it true when SA2 came out? I wasn't around. But I've heard multiple people tell me they tried Team Dark before Team Hero, either for the first chance to play Eggman or for one of the new characters.

 

I'm not saying Sonic isn't popular. But he's far from the sole successful factor in his franchise's history.

It's on literally a basic level; pretty the average person who picks up a game called "Sonic the Hedgehog" will initially play it with....Sonic the Hedgehog. 

[thumbs13]

39 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It's on literally a basic level; pretty the average person who picks up a game called "Sonic the Hedgehog" will initially play it with....Sonic the Hedgehog. 

That's almost never true for any game series, but I especially don't think it's true for Sonic. Personality, appearance, and gameplay styles all mean there's a decent chance you'll play as someone else first. 

Sonic's name in the title helps his popularity outside of the pepole who buy the games, but you can't really say the same for the people who do.

[DabigRG]

Tails is such interesting and fresh characters.

[Kuzu]

3 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

That's almost never true for any game series, but I especially don't think it's true for Sonic. Personality, appearance, and gameplay styles all mean there's a decent chance you'll play as someone else first. 

Sonic's name in the title helps his popularity outside of the pepole who buy the games, but you can't really say the same for the people who do.

I guess its a good thing I wasn't talking about people who are already fans huh