Canon Immigrants

[Wraith]

4 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

 

Not really sure what more he’d need to change to modify them design-wise tho, as they’re already modified to fit the games. Backstory maybe?

He said the post reboot designs are off limits so they'd receive another retooling.

[Zaysho]

I don't really mind them being changed again. Ian would know how to maintain the core of who those characters are while still putting them in a new context that would be fun and interesting. I'm not really holding out any hope anything will happen, anyway, but I'm glad to know he hasn't given up on them even with the Sega hurdles in the way.

[DabigRG]

15 minutes ago, Wraith said:

He said the post reboot designs are off limits so they'd receive another retooling.

Really now? Man.

They can probably use unused concept elements as a start.

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

He said the post reboot designs are off limits so they'd receive another retooling.

That's great news for Sally Acorn.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

He said the post reboot designs are off limits so they'd receive another retooling.

Sounds like Sega’s still bitter with Archie.

But it’s not like they couldn’t pull it off—they could just reuse old concept work from the post-reboot’s design phase.

[Kazhnuz]

I'm pretty interested to see what could be the modification made to make them more "ModernSonic-y". As many people, I think that it wouldn't be too hard for him (TBH, I think that most character from older cartoon or continuity could be implemented in Modern Sonic if done right. Modern Sonic is large enough, with enough different character, concept and theme to have new really different character. TBH, after having seen him make works Von Schleemer and Naugus into Modern Sonic, I've got no trouble at all to imagine him making them work). I also think that "making them work into Modern Sonic" might also mean using some of the design philosophy used to design Tangle and Whisper : design them around a type of gameplay/concept a bit more (Antoine and Bunnie would be the two easiest in that kind of philosophy xD) ? Maybe using some more "fake roboticized Tails" elements for Bunnie's robotics too ?

( And I hope that if the FF get into IDW, and that Antoine get a redesign, they use some inspiration from the great second design he would have get in the unreleased Sonic Universe, with a cape and a gauntlet - especially as the Black Knight reference would be cool xD )

 

They'll certainly not be anymore "the main group" as most have already thought in many discussion about the FF since IDWSonic's beggining xD With the backstory based on Forces, the Metal Virus saga and the Restoration existing, it shouldn't be too hard to make them a new backstory.

(the following text is spoiler-ed because it's too much of "what I think they should do with them", which isn't that interesting.)

Spoiler

 

TBH, I think something that could great would be to basically fuse their concept into the restoration, and break them a bit as a group to make them high-grade members of the Restorations (with separate roles and stuff) that could bounce with the characters on their own. Basically Sally could replace Amy... And I think it would be really benificial to Amy (I actually want them in IDW because Sally could free Amy of the role of "being the leader of the Restoration", and could give Amy a more action-y role again), and the rest of the group would be characters that can represent the Restoration depending of the need.

The biggest thing it would give would be that it would make the Restoration a group/faction somewhat external to the heroes instead of making it "the group of the heroes", and that would be more interesting as they the relationship between Sonic and co. and the Restoration could evolve. And maybe get somewhat bumpy sometimes, or they could even sometimes oppose each other (especially as they would be more "organized" than someone as Sonic is). It could allow splitting them more too, and use maybe just one of them when needed, instead of having to get the whole group too much. And as I said, Amy could become more active and fun.

 

 

About the Archie's design, I'm not surprising. Seems that after all the Archie problems, they are off-limit for at least a while. It makes me thing about something though : doesn't that mean that the Archie-exclusive Nicole mobian form would be off-limit too, and that if she appeared in a mobian form, she would be designed from scratch ? Well, I'm not really afraid if ever they have to do that, but I wounder what really is her status.

 

[Dr. Detective]

Yeah. I don't really see it happening either. Although, Ian isn't the kind of guy who'd keep hope alive if he felt there was literally no chance of it happening. He only knows as much as the higher ups are willing to tell him and all he knows is that right now they're off-limits.

SEGA/Sonic Team have been very fast and loose with what they allow and who they allow to make certain appearances. Infinite was very quickly rendered off-limits shortly after Forces came out, only appearing as a spirit in Smash Ultimate since his debut in 2017 while Zavok and Zazz have been all over the place. Zavok's been in two Olympic games, Sonic Forces, Sonic Forces: Speed Battle, the Archie Comics, Team Sonic Racing, and the IDW comics while Infinite hasn't even been allowed so much as a mention despite the comics beginning right after the game he debuted in.

Then you've got someone like Sticks who was being pushed during the time of Sonic Boom. She appeared in the Olympics and got a few Sonic Channel nods with some art and her own comic for the 25th anniversary but hasn't shown up in anything since the Boom franchise sank. No doubt they don't find much use for her if she isn't going to be an advertisement for something but I don't entirely understand what harm having her appear in the IDW comics would instigate. It's not like it's going to trick anyone into thinking anything Sonic Boom related might come back. I'm not clamouring for it but I don't understand the resistance to it either. 

Then there were even canonical characters such as Dr. Eggman Nega who, to this day, is still barred from appearing in the comics, whether it be Archie or IDW. Ian even mentioned he might have gotten himself in trouble just for mentioning a "Dr. Nega" in one of the older Archie issues. When the guy is still allowed to appear in the Olympic Games, AS a playable character for an event mind you, this amount of gatekeeping on him confuses me. He also had a Sonic Channel comic as well though, unlike Sticks, it wasn't to advertise anything. He's still being used in official material. Every decision they make regarding Eggman Nega continues to not make any sense to me.

THEN there's the big ones. Cream and Omega both took forever to be approved for the Archie comics and even in the IDW series they didn't appear right away. Although, it makes a little more sense for Cream in that regard since she wasn't in Forces and she isn't as popular as Blaze so the pressure to get her in as early as Issue 4 probably wasn't as hot. Omega came in right when he needed to and was even seen on some covers for the comic before he even made his debut. However, for some reason, the two of them weren't allowed to be in the Archie comics at one point in time.

I don't know why they eventually caved on Cream but I remember that in order to get Omega, Ian or someone else said that they basically just did this:

My point is that none of the restrictions on characters have ever made any real sense. For the Freedom Fighters, I actually sort of understand why SEGA/Sonic Team wouldn't want to deal with them anymore. I'm sure the old Japanese men who got sued by some weirdo in the States over characters in the old Archie books (that they don't even care about) probably want to distance themselves from anything associated with it as much as possible and don't feel a thing that characters from an old TV show got caught up in the crossfire in that regard.

I'm not going to say that they can't fit in the comics or the games or whatever because that doesn't make any sense either. I do worry a bit when it comes to how they'd be accepted though. Even the ones who want them to come back, if they get them back but in a way that's not to their liking it might just make them angry. Everyone's got their own ideas of what to do with these characters and often just talking about it can feel like you're walking on eggshells. 

[DabigRG]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

Yeah. I don't really see it happening either. Although, Ian isn't the kind of guy who'd keep hope alive if he felt there was literally no chance of it happening. He only knows as much as the higher ups are willing to tell him and all he knows is that right now they're off-limits.

SEGA/Sonic Team have been very fast and loose with what they allow and who they allow to make certain appearances. Infinite was very quickly rendered off-limits shortly after Forces came out, only appearing as a spirit in Smash Ultimate since his debut in 2017 while Zavok and Zazz have been all over the place. Zavok's been in two Olympic games, Sonic Forces, Sonic Forces: Speed Battle, the Archie Comics, Team Sonic Racing, and the IDW comics while Infinite hasn't even been allowed so much as a mention despite the comics beginning right after the game he debuted in.Then you've got someone like Sticks who was being pushed during the time of Sonic Boom. She appeared in the Olympics and got a few Sonic Channel nods with some art and her own comic for the 25th anniversary but hasn't shown up in anything since the Boom franchise sank. No doubt they don't find much use for her if she isn't going to be an advertisement for something but I don't entirely understand what harm having her appear in the IDW comics would instigate. It's not like it's going to trick anyone into thinking anything Sonic Boom related might come back. I'm not clamouring for it but I don't understand the resistance to it either. 

Infinite makes a little more sense considering how not only niche his character's role has been, but also the general rule of thumb regarding the other villains he fits amongst.

That and they're probably[but hopefully not] trying to decide how to follow up Forces and by extension, his place in things.

Quote

Then there were even canonical characters such as Dr. Eggman Nega who, to this day, is still barred from appearing in the comics, whether it be Archie or IDW. Ian even mentioned he might have gotten himself in trouble just for mentioning a "Dr. Nega" in one of the older Archie issues. When the guy is still allowed to appear in the Olympic Games, AS a playable character for an event mind you, this amount of gatekeeping on him confuses me. He also had a Sonic Channel comic as well though, unlike Sticks, it wasn't to advertise anything. He's still being used in official material. Every decision they make regarding Eggman Nega continues to not make any sense to me.

Early on, it was a combination of supposed trademark issues and later SonicTeam compromising on his backstory that presumably limited his use. He was still able to show up in an Offpanel and was later revealed in the Encyclopedia, as well as getting a namedrop from Captain Whisker, though.

But was it confirmed that he still can't be used in IDW?

Quote

THEN there's the big ones. Cream and Omega both took forever to be approved for the Archie comics and even in the IDW series they didn't appear right away. Although, it makes a little more sense for Cream in that regard since she wasn't in Forces and she isn't as popular as Blaze so the pressure to get her in as early as Issue 4 probably wasn't as hot. Omega came in right when he needed to and was even seen on some covers for the comic before he even made his debut. However, for some reason, the two of them weren't allowed to be in the Archie comics at one point in time.

I don't know why they eventually caved on Cream but I remember that in order to get Omega, Ian or someone else said that they basically just did this:

Cream&Cheese was some weird thing where she was considered Sonic X exclusive alongside Emerl/Gemerl. Omega on the other hand may have been Sega simply not wanting him to be introduced murdering someone.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Infinite makes a little more sense considering how not only niche his character's role has been, but also the general rule of thumb regarding the other villains he fits amongst.

That and they're probably[but hopefully not] trying to decide how to follow up Forces and by extension, his place in things.

Early on, it was a combination of supposed trademark issues and later SonicTeam compromising on his backstory that presumably limited his use. He was still able to show up in an Offpanel and was later revealed in the Encyclopedia, as well as getting a namedrop from Captain Whisker, though.

But was it confirmed that he still can't be used in IDW?

Cream&Cheese was some weird thing where she was considered Sonic X exclusive alongside Emerl/Gemerl. Omega on the other hand may have been Sega simply not wanting him to be introduced murdering someone.

Again, a lot of this makes little sense. Who determines what Infinite's status as a villain is for one? Why is Zavok of a higher villain priority than he is? I like Zavok more than him but I don't think they're taking my preferences into consideration when determining this. Also, they allowed Dark Gaia and the Babylon Guardian to show up in the Archie comics. What general rule of thumb regarding other villains are you talking about? 

The only thing that could make sense is that they have an idea for him going forward and they don't want Ian to do anything until his new role is established. However, that hypothesis only works under the impression that they give a shit about continuity and what the previous relations of an established character are and... I don't think they care about that. Even when it comes to Zavok, who they clearly care more about, they were willing to ignore the fact that he hated Eggman and not bother with an easy explanation for why they'd be on the same team in Team Sonic Racing.

As for Eggman Nega, he hasn't made any sort of appearance in any kind of meaningful capacity. Ian said he had to push hard to use him and even then he was only vaguely hinting at him just in case. He had hopes he'd eventually be able to use him one day but that day hasn't come. Regardless, it doesn't matter. This still counts as a an example of how weird and mixed up who and what is allowed is. Whether it be a combination of trademark issues or backstory compromises, it doesn't matter. 

I also don't know why Omega would HAVE to be introduced murdering someone. I don't know what you're even referring to there.

The point isn't any specific reason why a character hasn't been used. I don't care. The point is that there's a number of reasons why characters do and don't show up. A lot of them don't make a whole lot of sense and the allowance characters have changes based on the whims of those in charge. I was just providing examples.

[DabigRG]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

Again, a lot of this makes little sense. Who determines what Infinite's status as a villain is for one? Why is Zavok of a higher villain priority than he is? I like Zavok more than him but I don't think they're taking my preferences into consideration when determining this. Also, they allowed Dark Gaia and the Babylon Guardian to show up in the Archie comics. What general rule of thumb regarding other villains are you talking about? 

 

Not sure I understand the first question, but I simply meant that Infinite is meant to be another big time supervillain/monster that is too powerful, dark, contextual, or some combination to survive the events of his story.  In fact, he arguably double downs on it since he brought about a World War framework with the potential to wipe out millions more with his powers. So not only was killing him off pretty necessary on top of traditional, there's the matter of him being too specific to reasonably come back without a severe retool.

Dark Gaia and especially Angelus are different (however slightly in the former's case) in that the comics were specifically adapting games that came out years beforehand.

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The only thing that could make sense is that they have an idea for him going forward and they don't want Ian to do anything until his new role is established

That is a possibility as well.

I'm not holding my breath on it, but that fits

26 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

. However, that hypothesis only works under the impression that they give a shit about continuity and what the previous relations of an established character are and... I don't think they care about that. Even when it comes to Zavok, who they clearly care more about, they were willing to ignore the fact that he hated Eggman and not bother with an easy explanation for why they'd be on the same team in Team Sonic Racing.

Admittedly, Zavok has gotten weird as of late.

Basically, he and the Deadly Six have been an exception to the rule(alongside Metal, Nega, and to an extent Chaos) because, in addition to slipping through the cracks, they're basically weird looking mobians that are far less powerful and much easier to just have show up whenever.

Plus, SonicTeam likely wanted them to stick around to begin. Even if that's mostly been in service of spinoff rosters thus far.

28 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

 

I also don't know why Omega would HAVE to be introduced murdering someone. I don't know what you're even referring to there.

Oh yeah, they retooled that sequence thanks to Order to Chaos doing it instead, but SonicTeam apparently still didn't want him destroying Freedom HQ.

 

28 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

The point isn't any specific reason why a character hasn't been used. I don't care. The point is that there's a number of reasons why characters do and don't show up. A lot of them don't make a whole lot of sense and the allowance characters have changes based on the whims of those in charge. I was just providing examples.

Oh. Guess I absorbed that a bit literally.  

 

 

 

[Heckboy]

why the fuck can't the freedom fighters just go away forever

if they come back i want more than a "middle ground between SatAM and Modern", they should be occasional guests like the Chaotix, fully integrated into the game universe instead of furry Avengers

do something different, fuck the paramilitary superheroics

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don’t know, why the fuck can’t Classic Sonic just go away forever?

He stopped being relevant since the mid-90s before coming back anyway, and he ended up screwing everything else by bringing the “Two Worlds” nonsense with him—not that that was actually his fault, but that certainly came as a result of his return.

[Tornado]

I think everyone would have been happier if the entire Sega had gone away forever and we just played Mario games after 2002.

[Wraith]

15 minutes ago, Heckboy said:

why the fuck can't the freedom fighters just go away forever

if they come back i want more than a "middle ground between SatAM and Modern", they should be occasional guests like the Chaotix, fully integrated into the game universe instead of furry Avengers

do something different, fuck the paramilitary superheroics

They are a team. They're gonna still do team stuff together no matter what probably

[Sean]

Why are people who dislike the FFs so weird

[Wraith]

I can't just not care about something Sean, I need to frame it as an objective argument somehow

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Yes.

Because there's nothing in the games right now that remotely resembles the Freedom Fighters.

Certainly is a good thing that there's no resistance like team in Modern Sonic that involves the SEGA characters working together and performing missions to take down a larger threat in control of the planet.

I sure am happy that IDW especially doesn't feature anything like that. Man, it's no wonder the Freedom Fighters couldn't fit in at all in IDW Sonic.

[StaticMania]

Resistance Team is disbanding, better happen quick...those characters from days past might not be special if they aren't the only group.

[Dr. Detective]

4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Not sure I understand the first question, but I simply meant that Infinite is meant to be another big time supervillain/monster that is too powerful, dark, contextual, or some combination to survive the events of his story.  In fact, he arguably double downs on it since he brought about a World War framework with the potential to wipe out millions more with his powers. So not only was killing him off pretty necessary on top of traditional, there's the matter of him being too specific to reasonably come back without a severe retool.

This is all incredibly hypothetical and based strongly on personal perception. Infinite was a dude who grafted a magic ruby to his chest to get more powerful. Nothing about Infinite indicates that his "death" (if he indeed did die) was necessary. Or traditional. I really don't understand this. 

However, this isn't really about the point I was trying to make anyway so I suppose I'll just leave it be. 

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I don’t know, why the fuck can’t Classic Sonic just go away forever?

He stopped being relevant since the mid-90s before coming back anyway, and he ended up screwing everything else by bringing the “Two Worlds” nonsense with him—not that that was actually his fault, but that certainly came as a result of his return.

The Classic Sonic brand doesn't have anything to do with Two Worlds. You mean "Two Dimensions".

[DabigRG]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

This is all incredibly hypothetical and based strongly on personal perception. Infinite was a dude who grafted a magic ruby to his chest to get more powerful. Nothing about Infinite indicates that his "death" (if he indeed did die) was necessary. Or traditional. I really don't understand this. 

However, this isn't really about the point I was trying to make anyway so I suppose I'll just leave it be. 

Or on a combination of what most of the previous games had been doing anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Heckboy said:

if they come back i want more than a "middle ground between SatAM and Modern", they should be occasional guests like the Chaotix, fully integrated into the game universe

This would be fine.

Quote

instead of furry Avengers

I mean the Sky Patrol was only gonna be a thing for the Shattered World Crisis.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I mean the Sky Patrol was only gonna be a thing for the Shattered World Crisis.

I would have loved to see that go away. I really wasn't into the Sky Patrol thing. Or the Freedom Fighters thing. Or the Resistance.

I'm glad Knuckles disbanded the Resistance and even happier that the base seems to have been destroyed. Granted the IDW comics weren't leaning that heavily into the army thing at all, and after a certain point it basically just became Amy Rose at Aunt May's Homeless Shelter trying to help people reconstruct before the Zombot Apocalypse happened. So whatever.

Honestly, I don't really care so long as Sonic and Tails can go on adventures of their own free will and don't necessarily need the word of some higher authority to do it. Even though I don't like the Freedom Fighters system or that kingdom, I'd be fine so long as it was just a thing that exists. It's not like I have a problem with Sonic teaming up with the G.U.N Commander and Diablon.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

20 minutes ago, Razule said:

The Classic Sonic brand doesn't have anything to do with Two Worlds. You mean "Two Dimensions".

As far as the framing goes, it’s the same problem.

[Red Hot Jack]

7 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I don’t know, why the fuck can’t Classic Sonic just go away forever?

He stopped being relevant since the mid-90s before coming back anyway, and he ended up screwing everything else by bringing the “Two Worlds” nonsense with him—not that that was actually his fault, but that certainly came as a result of his return.

It's still Sonic though. It was simply Sonic in the first games, the SatAM cast was around when SEGA had no idea on what Sonic was, and had lots of different continuities and cartoons. Now… they still don't have a clue on how to handle Sonic, there are various inconsistencies in their thinking, but Classic Sonic is back because he is popular, 90s big icon nostalgia. The Freedom Fighters meanwhile, are a niche thing.

I'm not against the Freedom Fighters, but why should they get top privileges? I don't see any harm in having them as guests in IDW, ONLY IF they are labelled as "past continuities outsiders", I know this sounds weird, but I'm a fan of Sticks, and she's from a dead continuity too, just like the Freedom Fighters, so basically, I would be okay with the SatAM cast showing up, as long as stuff from Boom, Sonic X, and AoStH, are allowed too.

I also was not a fan of how the Freedom Fighters were protagonists in Archie, it was unnecessary, I only understand that it was like that because the book started as a SatAM tie in comic. So it was natural to keep them around in a big way, but now? Why?

So to sum up this post: if stuff from past cartoons like X, Boom, and AoStH are allowed, then SatAM is perfectly fine, since this is what I took from Ian's posts, stuff from Archie is gone, but maybe they can save those who appeared in old cartoons? I hope so.

[Wraith]

the Freedom Fighters being blatantly more popular than those other characters are why they would be getting "top privileges"