Canon Immigrants

[Indigo Rush]

1 minute ago, azoo said:

Oh yeah sorry about that, Topaz. Gonna give a quick shoutout to the only Sonic X character who is allowed to join the cast completely unscathed.. besides that lion guy that appeared for five seconds. They seem cool.

Lion guy? I didn't watch much of Sonic X so now I'm curious.

[azoo]

Kimba the White Expy. Apparently named "THE HOBIDON"? He's amusing to look at, at the very least.

[Indigo Rush]

Oh.

Yeah I'm down for more creative background characters like that. Absolutely.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 

33 minutes ago, Tangled Jack said:

I think I'm lost here. Did someone ask for the FFs to be removed when Archie was going? They were a huge part of the Archie comics, it wouldn't have been fair anyway. IDW is a different matter since it focuses almost only on Modern Sonic cast. I'm just saying to accept and move on, I mean, I for one did that after Sticks was dropped. I don't believe it's worth it to hold grudges for dead fictional characters, even though we loved them. Especially when there is still a great cast that we currently have.

It was particularly during the two Genesis Waves. The first one set a scare by having Sally killed right before the wave hit, and then going into a Sonic 4 tribute, then surpised folks by having them in it.

The Megaman crossover in the second one brought out more vocal voices of the Freedom Fighters removal, particularly with it happening during the Penders lawsuit. But by that point the lawsuit claimed a huge chunk of the old characters, taking those like Mina and Finitivus, that was a schism in itself with older fans who were just glad some were saved while others were upset some were lost to begin with.

That Archie Sonic would wind up cancelled didn’t help even with IDW picking up the license until at least Ian was confirmed as head writer, which—while not guaranteeing the comeback of characters like the Freedom Fighters—put some ease to at least the overall quality, even with IDW’s criticisms.

[Shadowlax]

I feel like if you bring topaz back just make her a private investigator

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, azoo said:

Kimba the White Expy. Apparently named "THE HOBIDON"? He's amusing to look at, at the very least.

Oh yeah, that is Kimba! 

3 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Oh.

Yeah I'm down for more creative background characters like that. Absolutely.

Funny you mention that since he turned up in Archie right before World Collide. 

37 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I feel like if you bring topaz back just make her a private investigator

Like the guy from Archie's SA2 tie in?

[Celestia]

Hey can we save Tekno?? I want Amy to have more friends. Also it's really funny she can fly around without wings or even flapping her normal-ass arms. (Screw it, the Babylon Rogues should be allowed to do that too.)

[Shadowlax]

7 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Hey can we save Tekno?? I want Amy to have more friends. Also it's really funny she can fly around without wings or even flapping her normal-ass arms. (Screw it, the Babylon Rogues should be allowed to do that too.)

tenko?

and your right about the rogues. In the grand scheme of sonic more important characters, they kinda seem real sucky that they need boogie boards to go a decent speed. Having them just be able to naturally fly with no powers kind of provides a very different advantage

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Celestia said:

Hey can we save Tekno?? I want Amy to have more friends. Also it's really funny she can fly around without wings or even flapping her normal-ass arms. (Screw it, the Babylon Rogues should be allowed to do that too.)

Last I heard, characters from Sonic the Comic are in a similar boat with characters that perished with Pre-Reboot Archie.

Not sure how true that is, but from what I can tell it’s a no. 

[thumbs13]

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

tenko?

and your right about the rogues. In the grand scheme of sonic more important characters, they kinda seem real sucky that they need boogie boards to go a decent speed. Having them just be able to naturally fly with no powers kind of provides a very different advantage

So you're saying that even without wings, they can still fly?

[DabigRG]

6 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Last I heard, characters from Sonic the Comic are in a similar boat with characters that perished with Pre-Reboot Archie.

Not sure how true that is, but from what I can tell it’s a no. 

They are. 

Nigel Kitching gave his blessing regarding the Brotherhood of Metallic and while Mr Flynn was more than flattered, he knew that regional trademarks would be an obstacle. 

[Red Hot Jack]

I agree with those who want Naugus, we do need more wicked wizard type of characters, I'm down for it. The reboot had actually a great connection with "Wally" Naugus and the game cast.

The Freedom Fighters, I don't see why they can't exist as a team, sure it would feel fresh to have them not know each other. It would be something new I guess? The thing is with the comic being heavily inspired by Forces and its war… it would be natural to have their backstory be set during that, I think.

Scratch and Grounder, as well as Coconuts, Breezie, Von Schlemmer, they were all great in the reboot, so yeah, it's a pity to lose all that and reboot them again but… better than nothing, especially with Breezie, the best of the bunch. Still, Orbot and Cubot are waaaay more entertaining than this duo, do not replace them, also I feel like it's impossible at this point, with them being such a huge part of the games. Gotta find some other use for Scratch and Grounder.

Sticks… I don't see why she should be more like the obnoxious Marine, besides, if they both appear, it's best to make them distinct characters with their own unique traits. Honestly, apart from the color palette, I've never seen them as similar, Sticks is a paranoid Conspiracy nut and an expert survivalist, Marine is an annoying brat who wants to be a bossy captain and command everyone but is afraid of ghosts.

Those from Sonic X I would actually enjoy seeing are yeah, Topaz obviously because of her girl buddy cop thing with Rouge, I've Always loved that, Cosmo and the Metarex which I felt was an interesting concept.

I'd even bring back Manic and Sonia and Aleena… maybe as a family who are Sonic doppelgangers from another dimension? Would be a cool concept too, but I'm pretty sure these characters are off-limits even if you had put them into a non-family context with Sonic.

As for Archie… I guess Ian explicitly said it's a "no" to anything from that book coming back but, expies of Enerjak and Lien-Da, I definitely want those, I mean, it's arguably the only good stuff that came from Penders.

So many possibilities of characters coming back, if only SEGA allowed that...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Easy way to bring Nagus in:

Retool him by making him a Zeti. You don’t even need to redesign him all that much.

And he could be a renegade who does things separate from the Deadly Six.

Hell, same with Wendy Witchcraft.

[Indigo Rush]

I don't know about making them Zeti specifically. Both Wendy Witchcart and Ixis Naugus are humanoid (Wendy moreso than Naugus, but still), so I think introducing them as a part of their own unique race of wizards or warlocks would work a bit better, as per the Archie comics.

[Celestia]

I thought it was fun post-reboot just made them trolls (which, as I'm just discovering, Ian said were "virtually extinct" so they were likely the only ones still around).

Though as for Witchcart herself I love the idea of just a normal human that knows magic somehow. Bonus points if when reintroducing her the characters express arbitrary skepticism of a sorceress existing. "What are you even talking about Tails? Besides, why would a witch ride around in a cart? Anyway, let's find the seven mystical rocks."

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

38 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

I don't know about making them Zeti specifically. Both Wendy Witchcart and Ixis Naugus are humanoid (Wendy moreso than Naugus, but still), so I think introducing them as a part of their own unique race of wizards or warlocks would work a bit better, as per the Archie comics.

Why can’t they still be wizards or warlocks as Zeti?

They already use magic to control machines. And the Zeti are humanoid too.

if anything, the Zeti need more numbers representing them, and Naugus at least looks similar enough to be one of them.

[azoo]

Because the Zeti are garbage tbh and they also look completely different from him.

They're also from some planet over there; which if we used Naugus he'd preferably be in a place where he can keep reappearing without having to write a reason for him in (and/or not bother and live with the fact that the writing is too lazy to explain why).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 minute ago, azoo said:

Because the Zeti are garbage tbh

Then make them not-garbage. 

1 minute ago, azoo said:

and they also look completely different from him.

They look different from each other as it is. So I don’t buy that.

1 minute ago, azoo said:

They're also from some planet over there; which if we used Naugus he'd preferably be in a place where he can keep reappearing without having to write a reason for him in (and/or not bother and live with the fact that the writing is too lazy to explain why).

How is any of that really a reason? He can’t be one of the few known Zeti to wonder off the planet?

[Zaysho]

Eh, I prefer Naugus and the Zeti be separate entities but I admittedly don't like the latter and I think it'd be nice to have an independent force that's different from what's been introduced already. Archie's set up for him in the reboot feels like a good fit for the games and offshoots more closely tied to it.

EDIT: Wanted to answer this but editing on mobile is a pain

36 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

They look different from each other as it is. So I don’t buy that.

I don't feel this is true at all. They share a common design motif, with adjustments made on whatever basic archetypal trait they represent.

They all have black "pants" they all have horns, they all have garish color schemes. They all look like the same family of demons.

I'm not saying you couldn't redesign Naugus to fit this, but it seems like a waste because I feel it starts to stray away from who he is and make him a different character that just happens share some traits with the original version.

[Wraith]

9 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Then make them not-garbage. 

They look different from each other as it is. So I don’t buy that.

How is any of that really a reason? He can’t be one of the few known Zeti to wonder off the planet?

What does tying him to the zeti add compared to making him his own character with his own identity 

[Celestia]

I can sort of see the logic there but his crystal magic stuff is pretty different from the weirdly faux-scientific explanation the Zeti's powers have.

Also the Zeti have a specific inspiration in oni, and I think adding to them (possibly even including new characters of the species) can only be a good thing, but I don't think would suit Naugus very well? You could change him I guess but ehhh.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

What does tying him to the zeti add compared to making him his own character with his own identity 

A sense that the Zeti, like the rest of the world, are diverse in appearance and abilities, and an overall sense of belonging to something that’s been established.

No different from Amy being another hedgehog like Sonic, but still her own character with her own abilities.

A better question I have in response is how would simply making him a Zeti take away from all that or rob him of his identity? He could still have everything about him be the exact same—crystalmancy, magic, hell, he could be the only Zeti immune to the conch shell too—he’d just part of an established race in the games while doing his own thing separately from the D6. Heck, he could even work against them if wanted.

[Wraith]

Just now, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

A sense that the Zeti, like the rest of the world, are diverse in appearance and abilities,

They aren't, and since there's only 6 of them and they were raised by the same guy, this is fine. Besides, they're explicitly based on Oni and Nagus is based in more western fantasy tropes 

3 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

and an overall sense of belonging to something that’s been established.

This doesn't matter. 

3 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

A better question I have in response is how would simply making him a Zeti take away from all that? He could still have everything about be the same, just part of an established race in the games.

If you want to make him a Zeti by technicality only than he might as well not be one.

[azoo]

I'd argue if one wanted to make the Zeti good then it could be done on it's own time separate from Naugus. 

Besides, as said before, they're oni and Naugus is western-influenced. The distinction between the two would be even better if you wanted to up the variety on villains Sonic encounters, food for thought.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

29 minutes ago, Wraith said:

They aren't, and since there's only 6 of them and they were raised by the same guy, this is fine. Besides, they're explicitly based on Oni and Nagus is based in more western fantasy tropes 

And the Oni are the Japanese equivalent to trolls, which is what Naugus was. So in essence, they’re even more similar—much like how Samurais and Knights are the east and west equivalents of each other.

If anything, that similarity can emphasize the comparisons and contrasts between east and west.

Quote

This doesn't matter. 

If you want to make him a Zeti by technicality only than he might as well not be one.

First off, it does matter. It’s part of how characters and groups interact with each other, the setting they’re a part of, and how they may or may not affect the world based on their background.

And by making him a Zeti, we expand that background further. Not just for Naugus, but for the rest of the Zeti as well. Part of why the D6 are criticized to hell and back is because they barely have much of a background other than living on Lost Hex, but that can be broadened with Naugus being a part of the Zeti who has his own agenda, showing that not all Zeti are the same, not all Zeti have the same powers, and that there’s more than just the six we only know about, giving more depth to them as a whole and even more as individuals.

That Naugus has more development than the D6 already could be an even bigger benefit to the D6, who quite frankly could use it to become more 3 dimensional instead of the 2 dimensional caricatures they are. There’s little to nothing in the way of this that you could literally just call Naugus a Zeti and leave it like that while opening the door to much more.