Sonic Appears in OK K.O.! (Crossover Episode on August 4th)

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

I don't consider Tails getting weirdly jealous and Sonic placating him with "no really you're my most specialest friend!" to be a satisfying story. But you can't argue someone into or out of liking something so...I don't know where to go with this anymore.

I feel like you're interpreting this in the most cynical way possible..I know that's not your intention, but that's what it comes off as. I can't convince you to like it if you've already decided your stance, but you're looking at it way deeper than it really is. 

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

They should just keep the tails is weirdly jealous part and ship it. That would make a good sonic game story imo

Twice in the past decade we've had two "Tails is jealous" arcs. Maybe he really is in love with Sonic. 

[Dr. Detective]

5 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Lost World is a game where everybody is at least a little bit wrong. That Tails was right about being able to handle the machine doesn't mean the game supports him acting the way he did.

The game never condemns him for acting the way he did either, though. In the end, Sonic apologizes to Tails for something he didn't do (rather then the reasonably upsetting things Sonic actually did) and Tails just says "It's cool." 

I don't see how anyone could take that as anything but the narrative making Tails say "Yeah, you were wrong and I forgive you."

Tails doesn't apologize for being an asshole and the narrative doesn't feel like it's actively trying to tell a story where everybody is a little bit wrong. It feels way more like they're confused on what the lessons the characters are supposed to be learning even are.

Sonic kicks the conch shell away and it ruins everything which, I would think, is supposed to be the set-up to a lesson Sonic has to learn about being TOO fast and instead waiting for the advice of his partner. Eggman even points this out in the following scene and Sonic is resistant to it, pinning all the blame on Eggman.

But then, Eggman shows up and says they need to work together. Sonic is against the idea and constantly bad mouths Eggman and berates him before reluctantly allowing him to join them.

Then, in the next scene, Tails starts a fight with Eggman (not the other way around) and when Sonic tries to stop it, Tails randomly accuses Sonic of trusting Eggman more than him even though he didn't. The perfectly rational line of thinking that Eggman would be the best person to shut off Eggman's machine isn't brought up. Neither is the fact that Sonic was clearly not on board with having Eggman join with them just a scene ago. Here, Sonic admits to doing something stupid for the first time as well, which honestly puts more of my sympathy in HIS camp then Tails.

So now, suddenly, Sonic's lesson is both that he needs to stop being too fast but also that he needs to trust Tails. I'm not sure where the part about not trusting Tails is supposed to be exemplified by this though. I didn't get that him kicking the conch away and him reluctantly allowing Eggman to come along was an issue of trust but Tails is treating it like it is. 

It gets even muddier when the Silent Forest scene happens. Sonic acts too fast again and it leads to Tails getting captured. Sonic's reaction is to say "I'm supposed to be the fastest but I was too slow to save my buddy" which... no. That line contradicts what literally just happened. Tails got captured BECAUSE you acted too fast.

This is the last time Sonic does this and it's never brought up again. 

Instead, after the conflict is resolved, Sonic apologizes to Tails for "doubting him"... which, I still don't get. In the scene where they were fighting, Tails just hurled this accusation at him and he's so incredibly angry, he's practically foaming at the mouth. 

Meanwhile, Tails is shown to be an uber confident, badass. He brags about making machines with detergent and toothpicks and is never had his ego challenged on this. He breaks out of his captured situation that Sonic put him into. He tricks the Zeti into thinking he's a robot. And he shuts off Eggman's machine. Tails was right about everything.

However, there's also a scene where Tails is still jealous at Eggman so he puts Cubot's head on a broken crabmeat and almost gets killed. Tails finally makes a mistake here and Sonic scolds him for it. Tails' response is that he was just trying to help. The impression the scene gives is that you're supposed to feel sorry for Tails. So... is this scene trying to show us that he actually isn't perfect and stands as a set-up for him admitting to not being as awesome as he made himself out to be earlier in the game? Was all that bragging just a cover for his more insecure emotionally needy side? 

Who knows? It's never brought up again. Tails never makes any mistakes after that scene so... what was even the point? 

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Responding to Lost World discourse is my curse.

First off, there's a pretty big difference between having Sonic trust Eggman, the villain, who is largely responsible for the situation they are in, to fix a dangerous tech-related problem over Tails, his best friend and sidekick, whose skills are considered to be roughly on par with Eggman's...and Sonic being friendly to a kid they ran into in a store. Both show a level of insecurity on Tails' part, but one involves an implicit challenge to Tails' identity as someone that Sonic can rely on to handle dangerous tasks involving machines and technology, and the other is literally no threat to him unless he can't stand Sonic showing positive attention to anyone besides himself.

I get that this might have been (maybe) the idea behind this but the portrayal they go for in Lost World just doesn't work. In the KO episode, I knew why he was upset. Yes, it was petty but that's fine. Children are often petty and irrational, even a genius like Tails. The fact that the episode's resolution was Sonic providing a simple explanation and Tails reacting to it with a blush of embarrassment while claiming "I knew that.."  was great. It showed that he immediately realized just how ridiculous he was being. Plus, it helps that the portrayal of his jealousy wasn't some frothing mad, "I'm gonna act out" kind of thing.

People are grateful for how likeable Tails still was despite his insecurities here. Yeah, he rolled his eyes at KO kissing Sonic's feet but when he saw that he was having trouble doing the spin-dash, he offered his advice and had a genuine heart-to-heart with him, expositing why he felt the way he did about Sonic and what getting to know him meant for him as a character. Being reminded of something like that can do wonders for making sure the sympathy for the character remains intact despite the fact that they may be acting a little emotionally needy. I know the reason why Tails would be that way. I think it makes sense for Tails, a character with that kind of background, to be that way.

That's why I don't have a problem with the ideas Lost World brought up either. The execution was just terrible. Tails wasn't sympathetic. He was an ass. The game doesn't portray him as in the wrong for acting out at all. Sonic's the one who kept screwing up and, in the end, Sonic is not only the one who gets proven wrong but he's also the only one who apologizes.

Tails apologizes to KO at the end of the crossover over a conflict that was portrayed as significantly less serious all while retaining a level of likeability throughout it by actually not being an asshole to the kid despite being jealous. 

If they wanted Tails to be frothing angry at Sonic in Lost World, fine, but you do that with proper build up. You don't have Sonic talk about how much he doesn't want to team up with Eggman and then immediately have Tails ANGRILY starting fights with Eggman and accusing Sonic of trusting Eggman more than him. That coupled with scenes of him constantly bragging and an ending that DOES put Tails completely in the right, just makes him extremely hateable. 

I like a lot of Lost World's cutscenes individually (when they're not tied together as an attempt at a cohesive narrative) and I appreciate a lot of what it tried to do but merely having those themes and ideas is only part of it.

It just didn't come together well, in the end.

 

[Kuzu]

I feel like we're doing that thing where we cherry pick individual scenes that we liked or didn't like rather than looking at the narrative as a whole package. 

 

In a vacuum, I like what Lost World tried to do but that's about it. You cannot judge an entire narrative off one or two scenes that you liked to say that it was good. You judge EVERYTHING, and how it comes together. That's trying to have your cake and eat it too; saying one or two scenes or an attempt to do something is fine but then disregarding everything else wrong about the narrative. People don't dislike Lost World because of some blind hatred for seeing these characters act differently, they hate it because it's just a poorly told story. That's all it is, people don't like things that are terribly written regardless if the ideas they present are good. Execution is the difference whether something is good or bad. 

 

This episode is superior to Lost World to me simply because its executed much better. Everything flows well, characters act in ways that make sense for the narrative, the pacing is just right, and everyone is pretty likable for the most part (obviously your mileage may vary). It does in 11 minutes what Lost Would couldn't manage over it's 4-5 hours of its campaign. And it's all a matter of execution. 

 

Regardless of your opinion of either Lost World or this episode, execution is what makes or break a good idea or not. You can have all of the most interesting ideas in the world, doesn't mean a damn thing if you can't turn it into something worth the readers time. Alternately, a simple and mundane idea can be amazing if executed well enough. 

[StaticMania]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

...4-5 hours of its campaign

That's...barely an hour of cutscenes.
 

Since there's no Gameplay & Story integration.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

In the end, Sonic apologizes to Tails for something he didn't do

Except he...did. He didn't do it maliciously, he likely wasn't even considering the implications of teaming up with Eggman, but even still. If he trusted Tails to be capable of shutting down the machine, he'd have no reason to work with Eggman. He says they "need" Eggman to shut it down, that means he doesn't think Tails could do it.

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Tails just says "It's cool." 

I don't see how anyone could take that as anything but the narrative making Tails say "Yeah, you were wrong and I forgive you."

It's not the most graceful of conclusions but I think the point is that Tails had basically already worked through his business by the time they met back up. He got called out in the Crab-Cubot scene and that shook him out of the worst of his attitude, and he regained his self-confidence by "escaping" the Zeti and turning the tables on them using his own skills. He's over it, he doesn't really need Sonic to apologize, so, "it's cool".

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Sonic kicks the conch shell away and it ruins everything which, I would think, is supposed to be the set-up to a lesson Sonic has to learn about being TOO fast and instead waiting for the advice of his partner. Eggman even points this out in the following scene and Sonic is resistant to it, pinning all the blame on Eggman.

But then, Eggman shows up and says they need to work together. Sonic is against the idea and constantly bad mouths Eggman and berates him before reluctantly allowing him to join them.

That's Sonic's guilt kicking in; following his gut with the conch made things worse, so he suppresses his gut feelings towards working with Eggman because he doesn't want to make the same mistake again.

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Then, in the next scene, Tails starts a fight with Eggman (not the other way around) and when Sonic tries to stop it, Tails randomly accuses Sonic of trusting Eggman more than him even though he didn't.

Except, as I said above, he did. For fairly sympathetic reasons, as I explained directly above, but that doesn't mean it hurts less when your friend trusts your mutual most-hated enemy to handle something that you can do.

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

So now, suddenly, Sonic's lesson is both that he needs to stop being too fast but also that he needs to trust Tails. I'm not sure where the part about not trusting Tails is supposed to be exemplified by this though. I didn't get that him kicking the conch away and him reluctantly allowing Eggman to come along was an issue of trust but Tails is treating it like it is. 

They're not exactly the same lesson but they're orbiting around the same area. He kicks the conch because he acts first and listens to Tails later. Tails ends up in the animal capsule trap because Sonic acts first and listens to Tails later. Working with Eggman isn't really tied to his impulsiveness, but there's similarity in how he's still just doing his own thing rather than listening to Tails.

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It gets even muddier when the Silent Forest scene happens. Sonic acts too fast again and it leads to Tails getting captured. Sonic's reaction is to say "I'm supposed to be the fastest but I was too slow to save my buddy" which... no. That line contradicts what literally just happened. Tails got captured BECAUSE you acted too fast.

This scene does muddle things a bit but I think what it's trying to say is, one, Sonic is still too impulsive and ends up triggering a trap that Tails ends up caught in, and two, Sonic always relies on his speed but it wasn't enough to get Tails out of the trap, so maybe speed isn't always the answer.

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Meanwhile, Tails is shown to be an uber confident, badass. He brags about making machines with detergent and toothpicks and is never had his ego challenged on this. He breaks out of his captured situation that Sonic put him into. He tricks the Zeti into thinking he's a robot. And he shuts of Eggman's machine. Tails was right about everything.

Oh come on, are we still doing this? Kid shows some confidence in the abilities he's worked hard to refine, showing how his development from "player 2" just following behind Sonic into a character able to follow his own path and be a hero on his own terms, and suddenly he's a bastard who needs to be taken down a peg. I don't see how this kind of argument comes from anyone who likes Tails, it feels like sabotaging him of having any kind of actual growth into the character SA set him up to become.

1 minute ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

However, there's also a scene where Tails is still jealous at Eggman so he puts Cubot's head on a broken crabmeat and almost gets killed. Tails finally makes a mistake here and Sonic scolds him for it. Tails' response is that he was just trying to help. The impression the scene gives is that you're supposed to feel sorry for Tails. So... is this scene trying to show us that he actually isn't perfect and stands as a set-up for him admitting to not being as awesome as he made himself out to be earlier in the game? Was all that bragging just a cover for his more insecure emotionally needy side? 

Who knows? It's never brought up again. Tails never makes any mistakes after that scene so... what was even the point? 

That was his emotional low point, where Sonic's not just (again, unintentionally) implying that he can't get the job done but outright saying that he's being a liability. We don't see him mess up again because it's then time for him to build back up; he shakes himself out of the spiteful funk he was in and restores his confidence by reprogramming the robotifying the machine, gaining self-confidence rather than needing to be validated by Sonic.

50 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

In the KO episode, I knew why he was upset.

See that's the thing, the first time I saw that scene, I didn't. It took me a second, at least, to figure out why he's getting weird over Sonic being nice to some random kid. And it still doesn't sit right with me even once I "got" it, it just doesn't feel like Tails to me. Lost World's Tails wasn't what I expected but ultimately it made more sense to me.

[StaticMania]

I'm not quite sure what's the problem here, according to the 2nd half of the episode...Tails apparently equated "little buddy" with "sidekick", which I'd really only say is understandable due to how Sonic phrased it.

I mean, there's no other way to really phrase that, but there is confusion on Tails' part when he said that.

His first reaction could've easily been a one off thing, but they ran with it.

[Dr. Detective]

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Except he...did. He didn't do it maliciously, he likely wasn't even considering the implications of teaming up with Eggman, but even still. If he trusted Tails to be capable of shutting down the machine, he'd have no reason to work with Eggman. He says they "need" Eggman to shut it down, that means he doesn't think Tails could do it.

The thing that's tripping me up about this is what the game is defining as "trust" and how it's shown in the narrative. I didn't get the sense that Sonic was un-trusting of Tails or even that it was really even Sonic's call in the first place.

Eggman comes up to them and explains that he needs to shut down his device. Sonic is resistant to Eggman but eventually allows him to come along. So is Tails.

There's NO visible issues Tails has with Sonic eventually caving and allowing Eggman to come along in this scene. Tails and Sonic even share a laugh at Eggman's expense when Sonic tells Tails he made a "Good one" when Tails pointed out that Eggman wasn't asking them for their help all that nicely. The scene before that one, Sonic was heaping all the blame for the situation on Eggman, ending it with a, admittedly amusing, scene where he asks "Whoever thinks Eggman is a bone-head, raise their hand" joke.

Eggman says he doesn't like the idea of teaming up with them any more than they do. Sonic says he's gonna have to take a cold shower when they're done. They all walk away to go do this. Again, Tails says nothing. It looks like the both of them had the same amount of say in this scene. 

The next scene after that starts with Tails starting a fight with Eggman and demanding an explanation for why he's here. That's when Sonic says they need him to shut off the machine, which, I still maintain is a rational line of thought. That's when Tails accuses Sonic of trusting Eggman more than him. Sonic is understandably confused by that accusation and is about to deny it but Tails cuts him off to just reaffirm what he thinks. It's really ham-fisted.

Up to that point, I assumed they were both okay with the logic being that Eggman can come along because it's his machine and he would know how to best shut it down. So, now, all of a sudden, Tails is the only one who's not following that line of thought for the sake of this conflict that's literally springing up out of nowhere. It doesn't at all look or feel like Sonic, specifically, was trusting Eggman more than Tails.

I suppose when you lay out the logic of "Sonic thinks they need Eggman to shutdown the machine therefore he doesn't trust Tails can do it" then I can see the angle of Tails being right about Sonic trusting Eggman more than him.

It's... a little too flimsy for me but technically you're correct. If that's the line of thought you want to go with, I guess I can't say you're entirely wrong. The execution is so weak and poor that it just doesn't come off that way. I still maintain that's not what Sonic did.  It makes no sense to me when the both of them let him come along and then in the next scene Tails is suddenly mad that he came along.

Trust is a word that when people hear it, they largely think about it in an emotional sense and not just the pure, hard logic way. That's why it immediately sounds so ridiculous to hear Tails accusing Sonic of trusting Eggman more than him. If they wanted to sell me more on the "trust" issue I feel like the initial scene where Eggman joins them needs to, right out of the gate, have Tails bring up that he can do it and have Sonic more resistant to the idea of letting Tails handle it. Then throw in some early signs of Tails being disgruntled by that. At present it just looks like they were both persuaded by Eggman's reasoning but Tails forgot that they were in the next scene.

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

It's not the most graceful of conclusions but I think the point is that Tails had basically already worked through his business by the time they met back up. He got called out in the Crab-Cubot scene and that shook him out of the worst of his attitude, and he regained his self-confidence by "escaping" the Zeti and turning the tables on them using his own skills. He's over it, he doesn't really need Sonic to apologize, so, "it's cool".

To me that still comes off as the narrative having Tails say "Yeah, you were wrong and I forgive you."

Also, I suppose one could take the position of the Crab-Meat scene shaking him out of his attitude but I didn't. I wasn't really given a reason to believe that's what happened. I feel like they needed Tails to be more openly apologetic or something to sell that, IF that actually was the angle they were going for.

He ended up getting (this time justifiably) angry again when the Zeti captured him and then went on to prove how uber-perfect he was, which to me, just went towards completely putting Tails as in the right. I don't see where his character arc is supposed to begin and end. It's initial starting point is built on something that's, at best, extremely flimsy and comes out of nowhere, and the way it plays out, it just feels like they were just reaffirming Tails' attitude as the correct attitude to have.

He bragged about all that stuff in the beginning and then proved that he was right to have that attitude. The crabmeat scene just feels like another thing that gets brought up and lost within the narrative. If it was supposed to set-up that maybe Tails was acting out and he was wrong for that, they don't follow through with it in a strong and convincing way.

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

That's Sonic's guilt kicking in; following his gut with the conch made things worse, so he suppresses his gut feelings towards working with Eggman because he doesn't want to make the same mistake again.

That's fine. I wasn't contradicting anything about the narrative there. I was just outlining what happens so I could lead in to what my actual issue was.

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Except, as I said above, he did. For fairly sympathetic reasons, as I explained directly above, but that doesn't mean it hurts less when your friend trusts your mutual most-hated enemy to handle something that you can do.

And I still maintain he didn't. Tails was being ridiculous. 

I can see the point of view working if the game sold me on Sonic actually trusting Eggman more than Tails but it didn't. The way its written, it feels way too brittle and sloppy. It comes out of nowhere. Tails was FINE in the last scene. Now I'm supposed to instantly understand why he's suddenly upset? Why is Sonic the one getting the blame for this trust issue when he was just as against teaming up as Tails was? Tails was there. He SAW Sonic badmouthing Eggman, calling him names, and claiming they could do it by themselves.  He said nothing when they both allowed Eggman to come along. 

Eggman asserts that they need to team up or it'll be the end of the world. Sonic's response is. "Yeah, well, teaming up with you feels like the end of the world Eggman. I'm gonna want to take a cold shower after we're done." And then the three of them just walk off together. There was nothing there to clue me into the fact that the next scene would reasonably be Tails starting a fight with Eggman for no reason and then getting mad at Sonic for this supposed display of trust. 

I don't have a reason to understand why Tails suddenly feels as strongly as he does. 

I'm in full support of the ideas being presented but this game just didn't do a good job communicating any of this. 

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

They're not exactly the same lesson but they're orbiting around the same area. He kicks the conch because he acts first and listens to Tails later. Tails ends up in the animal capsule trap because Sonic acts first and listens to Tails later. Working with Eggman isn't really tied to his impulsiveness, but there's similarity in how he's still just doing his own thing rather than listening to Tails.

This thought came to my mind more than once as well but the problem is that the narrative doesn't really address this as though they're the same issue. The thing Sonic apologizes to Tails for is for "doubting him" which isn't something that I felt was exemplified by him kicking the conch away and doing the attack on the capsule. He was brash and acted too fast. Sonic says "I was too slow" and then it just drops the angle of him acting too fast. If they wanted that to be the lesson he learned, fine, but what exactly does that have to do with any specific issue of trust? That's clearly more of a Sonic thing rather then anything to do with Tails. If it were Amy or Blaze next to him, I'd imagine he'd have done the same thing. He needed to learn a lesson about how it was sometimes okay to slow down. But Sonic says "I was too slow" and then apologizes to Tails about something, that to me, felt like a completely different issue. An issue that I was, and still am, not sold on.

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

This scene does muddle things a bit but I think what it's trying to say is, one, Sonic is still too impulsive and ends up triggering a trap that Tails ends up caught in, and two, Sonic always relies on his speed but it wasn't enough to get Tails out of the trap, so maybe speed isn't always the answer.

How am I supposed to get "Speed isn't always the answer" out of a scene where Sonic says "I was too slow"?

I know that's the the angle I would have taken it but I don't know that's the angle the game is taking it. Especially since it's never brought up again. 

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Oh come on, are we still doing this? Kid shows some confidence in the abilities he's worked hard to refine, showing how his development from "player 2" just following behind Sonic into a character able to follow his own path and be a hero on his own terms, and suddenly he's a bastard who needs to be taken down a peg. I don't see how this kind of argument comes from anyone who likes Tails, it feels like sabotaging him of having any kind of actual growth into the character SA set him up to become.

You completely misunderstood the argument I was actually making and the reason I brought all this stuff up then.

He's acting like an asshole and then he's proven justified by the narrative.  He IS a bastard who needs to be taken down a peg in this game.  

My argument isn't that Tails shouldn't show his development. I was using all that as proof that your claim that the narrative portrays Sonic and Tails as both being slightly in the wrong is false. You may have forgotten this because you were reading through a long post and responding to it in chunks but the original part of your post I was responding to said this: "Lost World is a game where everybody is at least a little bit wrong. That Tails was right about being able to handle the machine doesn't mean the game supports him acting the way he did."

I don't see it with Tails. The narrative is in clear, full support of everything Tails does and says. Everything he does is right and he never apologizes to Sonic for the way he acted. I listed all the things that he does to prove that the narrative is in support of him and it believes him to be in the right. NOT because I hate his development and the character growth from Sonic Adventure.

I'm definitely a fan of Tails. You can be damn sure of that. 

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

That was his emotional low point, where Sonic's not just (again, unintentionally) implying that he can't get the job done but outright saying that he's being a liability. We don't see him mess up again because it's then time for him to build back up; he shakes himself out of the spiteful funk he was in and restores his confidence by reprogramming the robotifying the machine, gaining self-confidence rather than needing to be validated by Sonic.

This is all according to you though. Again, like I explained above, I'm not given any reason to believe that this is what actually happened. I didn't see any build-up of confidence. It just looked to me that Tails was trying to prove how awesome he was, messed up, then got a chance to prove it again and succeeded. 

The crabmeat scene I love in a vacuum but in the complete story it feels like it was pointless. I can't hold it against you for seeing it that way. Interpret it how you want but the game, as far as I'm concerned didn't do what you say here.

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

See that's the thing, the first time I saw that scene, I didn't. It took me a second, at least, to figure out why he's getting weird over Sonic being nice to some random kid. And it still doesn't sit right with me even once I "got" it, it just doesn't feel like Tails to me. Lost World's Tails wasn't what I expected but ultimately it made more sense to me.

And that's fine.

I'm not even one of Lost World's harshest critics. I always maintain that the individual cutscenes are good. I just hate how they come together to make a whole.

[Austroid]

I've always thought using "idiot" to describe Knuckles' personality was too broad and harsh. 

Sure he can be naïve when judging others, and gung-ho when it comes to fighting; but he's not an idiot. You can't just write off his personality as dumb when he's also shown levelheadedness in other things such as being well-versed in the ancient, long forgotten elements that Sonic and others have come to rely on him for.

When I think of an "idiot" character I think of Boom Knuckles or Cubot.

 

[StaticMania]

Just now, Austroid said:

When I think of an "idiot" character I think of Boom Knuckles or Cubot.

That's the opposite end of the spectrum.

So it solves nothing.

[StaticMania]

Just because Boom Knuckles and Cubot are one type of stupid, doesn't mean calling Knuckles an idiot is in anyway comparing him to that.

That's just one extreme, regular Knuckles doesn't reach an extreme.

[Austroid]

12 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Just because Boom Knuckles and Cubot are one type of stupid, doesn't mean calling Knuckles an idiot is in anyway comparing him to that.

That's just one extreme, regular Knuckles doesn't reach an extreme.

Calling him a "meathead" or "idiot" is an extreme simplification in of itself.

Why would one call him either of those when "Buff-ckles" exists? If anything "Buff-ckles" only further drove the misconception that Knuckles has always been that way.

[StaticMania]

1 minute ago, Austroid said:

...the misconception that Knuckles has always been that way.

Calling it a misconception...is a misconception.

Don't call Knuckles brain dead, that would be nice.

[Natie]

Giving a character flaws in a story is a great way to add a feeling of intrigue and humanity, but runs the same risk that this human nature does in real life, being that some people will just get pissed off by it. Create a character meant to please everyone and you run the risk of feeling ingenuine and soulless. It's up to you to pick your preference at that point. I personally chose flaws, but prefer it be believable.

anyway the cartoon was good. helps i already love Ok KO for being a hilarious visual treat to a cartoonist like me.

[Red Hot Jack]

Wow, CN even advertised the livestream with the OK KO! Writers on twitter, since when they have so much interest in Sonic? Didn't see that during Boom's times.

[sonic 1-derful]

just heard that 'ok ko' has been cancelled. was really hoping the crossover episode would spark a new sonic series in the vein of 'adventures of'

[Indigo Rush]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/ok-k-o-lets-be-heroes-has-been-cancelled-1837078836

Oh, shoot. It's true after all...

 

I only saw the Sonic episode. Don't really have time for cartoons these days, but I did like what I saw. I hope more silly cartoons like OK KO show up to balance out all the other dramatic ones I keep hearing about. Best wishes to the animators for their next project.

[Your Vest Friend]

It didn't do that great in the ratings apparently. Highest premiere of the weekend but the raw figures were nothing to write home about. Plus unlike the other shows it didn't appear on the CN app first, which makes the situation worse (even outside of confirmed cancellation.)

[Razule]

12 hours ago, Your Vest Friend said:

It didn't do that great in the ratings apparently. Highest premiere of the weekend but the raw figures were nothing to write home about. Plus unlike the other shows it didn't appear on the CN app first, which makes the situation worse (even outside of confirmed cancellation.)

It did ok (ko) for what CN shows usually get these days.

[SBR2]

The problem is it wasn't doing Adventure Time numbers and if it's not hitting the highest numbers Cartoon Network usually gives up on it. That's cynical I'll admit but that's honestly how it appears. 

[StaticMania]

I don't think Adventure Time would be the high mark at this point...

[Sonic Warrior]

The Sonic episode was insanely great and now they reveal the series is ending...lol

It seems they tried everything with the Sonic episode to see a spike in ratings. I hope the series finale shows Sonic again.

[Razule]

On 8/9/2019 at 2:56 PM, StaticMania said:

I don't think Adventure Time would be the high mark at this point...

That, and getting the numbers AT got in its prime just isn't possible anymore.

[SonicXtremeMania]

IT'S ALL TEEN TITANS GO FAULT! THE SHOW WAS MORE POPULAR THAN OK KO! FUCK THAT SHOW! I WISH TTG WILL GET CANCELLED!

[shdowhunt60]

On 8/9/2019 at 5:23 AM, Indigo Rush said:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/ok-k-o-lets-be-heroes-has-been-cancelled-1837078836

Oh, shoot. It's true after all...

 

I only saw the Sonic episode. Don't really have time for cartoons these days, but I did like what I saw. I hope more silly cartoons like OK KO show up to balance out all the other dramatic ones I keep hearing about. Best wishes to the animators for their next project.

Wow, that's... That's really tragic. It's nice that they got to do the Sonic episode they always wanted to, but I guess the executives at CN just weren't happy with whatever the show was pulling in.

[MainJP]

33 minutes ago, SonicXtremeMania said:

IT'S ALL TEEN TITANS GO FAULT! THE SHOW WAS MORE POPULAR THAN OK KO! FUCK THAT SHOW! I WISH TTG WILL GET CANCELLED!

Chill.