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Female representation in Sonic

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All the females in Sonic are positive.

Amy Rose - (Goofball, bratty, crushy) No one else could be the actual silly one, next to Charmy.

Rouge the Bat - (Sassy, thief, snark) She could do the friendly jabbing with Sonic, honestly no one else could believably do so.

Cream the Rabbit - (Polite, capable, cute) She's nice and polite. I guess with occasional intentional and unintentionally insensitive.

Blaze the Cat - (Shy, Intense,  dutiful) She's like the cool one, but doesn't really connect with everyone and that's ok. She's can be fun though.

Elise - (Innocent, pure, nice) She's a Princess going through bad times and not getting better due to forced emotional reservation.

Lah - (Prankster, cute, excitable) She's a ghost who gets a real kick out of terrified young kids and likes ferocious beasts.

Zeena - (???) She's green monster who doesn't put immediate interest in acting. She's also catty which leads to some sass.

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I think a problem right now is that a lot of the females (and a large amount of the males in fact) are pretty much demoted to ancillary characters which makes it very hard to flesh them out or give them a noteworthy role.

Amy in particular I think is a character they struggle to keep a balance with. She's either a completely unhinged Sonic-obsessed psychopath brat or a rather dull female that's....nice and determined, but that's about it. It's either comic relief or neutral female for her.

Sticks is an odd case, she was largely in a TV series which gave her the necessary screen time, but despite being the original character, she still felt more one note than the others. She was kind of a desaturated Pinkie Pie, the loon whose craziness overrules the plot. Pinkie herself tended to have a similar issue but she had token moments of depth from times her craziness DIDN'T have the last say and we got a rather poignant bit of vulnerability from her, but I don't remember this ever happening to Sticks, she was ironically complacent for her archetype. A shame because her being more volatile and paranoid could have made her a cool Dale Gribble type character. (Plus after cases like Translate This, I feel like Sticks should have had a token comeuppance story like Sonic and some of the others got, a smug crazy jerk like Sticks doesn't fit ALWAYS getting the last laugh.)

Zeena is a gag boss. She's not brimming with depth but she isn't supposed to because she has a fleeting role. I get apathy towards the Deadly Six but I don't get the hatred really.

Archie females are dull, at least pre reboot. Damn media never grew out of the 90s with its flat empowered role models.

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@StaticMania I'm staying out of this discussion on the whole because it's more interesting just to read than take part in, but Zeena can be summed up entirely as "Girl". That's her personality and design.

Zavok = the boss one

Zomom = the fat one 

Zik = the old one 

Zazz = the crazy one 

Zor = the sad one 

Zeena = the girl one

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50 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

@StaticMania I'm staying out of this discussion on the whole because it's more interesting just to read them take part in, but Zeena can be summed up entirely as "Girl". That's here personality and design.

Zavok = the boss

Zomom = the fat one 

Zik = the old one 

Zazz = the crazy one 

Zor = the sad one 

Zeena = the girl one

Oh god, I forgot about Zeena.

Yipes.

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Kt occurs to me that we're supposed to give our thoughts on the characters and how they've been handled. I guess this is an excuse to give my [current] view on much of the game cast in order of appearance:

  • Amy Rose the Hedgehog: An energetic and plucky girl who is hopelessly infatuated with the World's Fastest. Definitely a basebreaker, but also statistically the most popular female character apparently. Either way, she is The Gal of the series thanks to being the first and that definitely shows. For better or worse, as that's also reflected in how she tends to vary in demeanor and especially abilities more than any other character. Personally, I can't remember feeling too strongly one way or the other about; she's an overall just okay. I do think it was interesting that SonicTeam took what amounted to a Joke Character, radically redesigned her into a more individual if protracted look, and then tried to build her up as a heroine in her own right until 2005.
  • Tikal the Echidna: Daughter to Chief Pachacamac and sealer of Chaos. She's also a ball of light--ascended to a higher plane of existence due to seemingly sacrificing herself to the Master Emerald using the prayer her grandmother taught her. Definitely one of the fondly remembered characters, since she & Chaos simultaneously set a defining example for the series' storytelling and yet feel like early outliers of what it became. It's interesting how despite or even because of her nature as a pacifist, she was willing to do whatever it takes to protect the world from Chaos's wrath. 
  • Ilumina Flowlight: Ruler of Maginary World and the light half of Void. I know they're designs are pretty nice and likely inspired Cosmo the Seedrian from Sonic X, as well as the fact that both suffer from feelings of emptiness, but that's about it. I'm sure most of us haven't touched Shuffle, so what do people think these two?
  • Agent Rouge the Bat: An entitled jewel thief that uses her seemingly loose demeanor to get what she wants. She's also a rival for Knuckles, a friend of Shadow, and a frequent employee of GUN. She is indeed one of the more fun additions to the cast, as her versatility means she often feels like a side unto her self that teases the other characters in a variety of manners. Her presence in Sonic X is undeniably one of its more interesting points, as it's prophetic duration in the human world fit perfectly with her character and allowed her to flourish in ways some of the others struggled with. Unfortunately, she pretty much became a package deal with Shadow due to their dual introduction and the latter's popularity.
  • Maria Robotnik: A spirited yet terminally ill patient who was tragically cut down by Heavy Dog when GUN of the past shutdown the Space Colony Ark. She is also the beloved family & friend of the deeply troubled Professor Gerald, Shadow, and future Commander Abraham, who each went on to seriously affect the safety of the world as a result. I'd say as a posthumous supporting character, she played her part pretty well. One of the few weird aspects is her lack of correlation with Ivo himself, who is technically her cousin and yet only indirectly acknowledges her through his awareness that her name is the password for many of Gerald's devices.
  • Cream the Rabbit: A polite if sheltered little girl who is always accompanied by her Chao friend Cheese. She also outsources as a sidekick for Amy, dear friend to Blaze, and a generally helpful novice of Sonic's friends. Cream is actually a character I've always found modestly intriguing, likely since she always felt an offbeat extra from most of the other characters. I actually remember my real first steps into the franchise, Sonic X and then Sonic Heroes, caused at least two significant questions to my young eyes: "Where is Chris?" and "Whoa, Cream can fly?!," the latter of which created this underlying tease regarding her behavior in the former context. There's also how my biggest concern with Sonic Advance 3 for a while was just figuring out how to heck you unlocked her, since my brother unlocked the other two when I wasn't looking and the eventual process I looked up was whoo. Nonetheless, that fascination is still here and consciously so since she is pretty representative of a "Just for fun" kinda feel the series often had, even though her actual focus as a character is proportionally limited compared to her resume. Indeed, one of the disappointments with the recent games on the sly was how she seems to be repeatedly skipped over on major appearances since Generations; a reprisal of her prior tenure that even Team Sonic Racing conspicuously skimped on.
  • Vanilla the Rabbi: The proper yet not very prim mother of Cream. An extension of her daughter, Vanilla is a gentle and apparently well-to-do lady who nonetheless reared her to be the person she is. She's definitely on the fringe in terms of having a presence in the series, given that she's a supporting character to a major character that is primarily supportive and her most unique attribute is the fact that she is not only an adult but a parent specifically. It's a smidge of a shame that her introduction was so miniscule in context, since I feel the way she raised Cream kinda speaks of a worldview that could've given them a little more background and hints of an arc. Mm, ah well.
  • Wave the Swallow: Bigheaded Mechanic of the Babylon Rouges and Jet's older advisor. I kinda find myself liking Wave when I remember her, namely for her design and her somewhat haughty yet subtly impartial attitude. There's also fact that she's something of a rival for Tails, thus actually giving him something interesting to contend with. Of course, that was seemingly dropped after her introduction aside from still calling him Shortie.
  • Queen Blaze the Cat: A dutiful if touchy heroine from another dimension. Undeniably one of the most well-adjusted, well-developed, and well-received characters within the series...in USA. With all that said, I must admit that my own interest in place has less to do with her characterization or especially her capabilities and a little more due to the distinct potential of the Sol Dimension. Even ignoring her young escort, she has an entire world separate from Sonic's own that can be used to have some different quests and events from what we're accustomed to as a status quo. And with her own popularity in mind, it's open to be it's own sub-series if given the opportunity.
  • Princess Elise III: Former bearer of the Flames of Disaster and heiress of the Duke of Soleanna. One of the most lauded characters in the franchise because she's a central character in Sonic 06, in which she was perpetual damsel and a "threat to ships." Personally, I never quite felt it myself, but I see the readout. Kinda think her backstory had some pretty distressing implications regarding her psyche and felt like her overall role in the story could've been tightened up a bit(which I dragged my ass through doing), but then Sonic 06 as a whole could've used far more in general. 
  • Shahra Genie of the Ring: An obedient djinn who lives within the storybook The Arabian Nights and Erazor's former lover. Never actually played Secret Rings for the better and was only exposed through FTCR's playthrough as well as certain songs from the soundtrack; as such, I honestly don't know much about her and can't really say anything except that I do like the heartfelt implications of how her story plays out though.
  • Captain Marine the Raccoon: A spunky yet prodigious young girl within the Sol Dimension leads the Coconut Crew on the sea in search of adventure. Gonna plead the fifth and admit that I never played Rush Adventure outside of watching selects cutscenes and later Ted's playthrough for the Sonicathon. Unlike the others, though, there's definitely something that can be said about her. She is pretty infamous for being a pest, often claiming authority and seeking attention despite her immaturity and resulting ineffectiveness compared to most of the other heroes. With that said, I do rather like her design and find her place in the series interesting: her debut ends with the implication that she's ironically hiding some sort of crazy power of her own that helps defeat Dr. Nega mid-breakdown and promising to grow up a bit after recognizing her faults thanks to Blaze. Given all of this, it's a pretty safe assumption that she may actually be the dimensional counterpart of Tails and will continue to aid Blaze when she needs assistance traveling their world. 
  • Merlina the Wizard: Grandfather of the legendary Merlin and a somberly styled sources. The Dark Queen is definitely remembered for being a rare female Anti-villain within the series and the philosophically fatal nature of her motivation. Also, With Me is fantastically metal.
  • Shade the Echidna: Procurator of the Nocturnus and leader of the Marauders. Never played or even seen much of Chronicles, so I legit don't know much about her beyond to bare minimum of her plot significance. I wanna say that I sorta like her design, although her unmasked appearance is a little...off? Given her assigned status as a supposed expy of Julie-Su of the Dark Legion, her appearance outside of the RPG is unlikely, but I probably wouldn't mind it.
  • Zeena of the Zeti: The cruel yet indifferent lone female of the Deadly Six. Undeniably one of the weakest characters in the series and one of the few characters I personally dislike, being little more than a stereotype among a group of archetypes that borders right into being offensive. I actually intended to do a write-up dissected why she sucks in her debut, but haven't gotten around to it. 
  • Sticks the Jungle Badger: A wild child with a paranoid, but nonetheless resourceful nature and a cherished friend to Amy. With seemingly a canon foreigner for Sonic Boom, Sticks stands out within both series as being explicitly designed to fit in with the game cast and has been occasionally acknowledged as being connected to the mainline series. Right off the bat, I really like Sticks: not only for how much she fits in, but also how she almost feels tailor made to contrast with much of the major cast. I really do hope makes the transition even more official at some point so she can interact with them properly. Of course, not everyone shares that opinion, which is natural for such a quirky character.

 

I think that's the bulk of them.

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Very few franchises has close 1:1 gender ratio, unless main character is female (Kim Possible, Ladybug, Metroid(?), several Disney movies).  Only exceptions I can think of are Avatar (post season 1) and arguably Danny Phantom and Adventure Time. And even then main hero, antagonist and 3rd most important character you can think of (Zuko, Jack Fenton, Jake the Dog) are males. And there is Total Drama, but that series cheats.

Sonic has around... 1:3 if you count Sonic Heroes + Silver/Blaze? It's fairly good number, even if Main trio, Shadow and pretty much all main villains are male.

But numbers aside, I think representation is pretty good. Main 4 girl (Amy, Rouge, Cream, Blaze) cover wide spectrum of power levels and characterization, even more if you count Sticks. In fact most Sonic females have varied roles and personalities (ignoring Zeena, good she sucked). Maybe half of them wears a dress. There are complains, but it's not like Silver, Charmy or Shadow don't have hatedoms.  As for spin-offs.... well Archie Reboot and IDW work hard on balancing things.

So my verdict is strong 'good enough'. Not amazing, but far above Kirby, Mega Man, Ninja Turtles or Marvel Comics.

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5 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

@StaticMania I'm staying out of this discussion on the whole because it's more interesting just to read than take part in, but Zeena can be summed up entirely as "Girl". That's her personality and design.

Zavok = the boss one

Zomom = the fat one 

Zik = the old one 

Zazz = the crazy one 

Zor = the sad one 

Zeena = the girl one

I've failed her, she didn't even get 3 adjectives like everyone else.

But you're right.

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17 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

Elise is garbo. Almost everyone hates her and, in my opinion, for good reason. Never do this again, SEGA. Or Sonic Team. Whoever's fault it is.

 

Oh shit, I forgot Elise! Dammit!

Well, problem solved.

17 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

Fuck Julie Su.

 

 

9 hours ago, Tangled Jack said:

 

Then there is Tangle and Whisper, who have proved to be really popular as well, and people even want them in the games, they get drawn a lot, etc.

 

 

.

14 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Sonic has a lot of variety when it comes to female characters when its compared to other series.                                   

Amy is the cheerful girl with a intense love for Sonic and she's the best female out of the group. Recently Sega has been making her more dull but sometimes I can still see a glimmer of a girl that still likes boys and girly things.

Don't see Zeena much in the games but caring mostly about her looks and moving at her own pace makes her more interesting when compared to other females. 

Blaze I don't find all that interesting she's just normal in personality.

Sticks is to random for me.

i really like Sonia's personality, motives and voice she takes it the hardest when Eggman takes over.

The other females are also nice in their own type of ways.

 

Oh wait, we're doing spinoff characters too?

.

17 hours ago, Wraith said:

 

Blaze was my favorite Sonic character for a long time but you have to confront some awkward truths about her: Sonic Team never really got together and decided what they wanted from her. Rush and 06 came out close together and portray what I consider to be two seperate character: The cool, clear headed mentor Blaze and the hotheaded and stubborn one from the Rush games. Rush is obviously way more interesting to me as the first female Sonic character to really headline a game and be the emotional core of it's story. Blaze in 06 on the other hand mostly exist to be a catalyst for Silver's development and I think that misunderstands the appeal of the character and sidelines her unnecessarily. You really could have put a new character in her place and things would have gone over better. We'd have another female Sonic character that was chill and I can keep dumbass Blaze. 

Didn't Rush at least a year before 06 was rushed out?

.

17 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I forgot about Tikal. 

You know, she's actually pretty popular. I can see why too. She occupies that space of a character that carries an interesting connection to the history and backstory of one of the most popular characters in the series that's unfortunately still largely kept hush-hush aside from the most basic and important details outlined in her debut game. 

There's something neat going on there that hasn't been fully capitalized on and I can see why that would be so alluring. 

17 hours ago, Wraith said:

I actually don't really want a whole lot more Tikal. I thought what they did hit home pretty well and as a pacifist she can't really do a whole lot more in an action series without betraying the point of the character. If they find a way to bring her back without it feeling obligatory I'd be game, of course, but I couldn't come up with much myself. 

If they remade Sonic Adventure or revisited that piece of lore for one reason or another I'd be open to fleshing her out, but It's not something I'm itching for.

Yeah, that might indeed require a remake or some sort of expansive on the Knuckles Tribe.

Though I did love how the New252 worked her in through the open door.

16 hours ago, Diogenes said:

and...maaaaybe mother wisp? 

Hotdoggit...

 

15 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

Blaze is a consistently good character, mostly because she hasn't appeared much. Even her 06 appearance wasn't the worst if you ignore the canonicity stuff.
 

Hell, she was even the best handled character in TSR.

15 hours ago, SBR2 said:

but in recent years with Boom, Forces and both Archie and IDW they've worked to give her more character traits than just wanting to bang Sonic's brains out. 

Trying to decide if that's literal or figurative.  

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2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

 

Trying to decide if that's literal or figurative.  

I mean it varies on how mad she is at any given moment. 

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One thing I can ay about the female characters in general is that, as with most japanese franchises, they are for the most part very stereotypically feminine, although in different ways. Cream is the "cute little girl", while Amy is the "lovestruck teenager", and Rouge is the "seductive woman". Blaze's personality is less stereotypically feminine, but then again, she certainly looks stereotypically feminine with her pony-tail and her purple color scheme.

But like I said, this is to be expected from a japanese franchise. While western media have more and more moved towards portraying female characters whose gender is pretty much irrelevant, Japan continues to go by the traditional point of view that seems to be "what's the point of a character being a girl if she isn't girly?".

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Amy Rose the Hedgehog is a lovestruck tween.

The young fool.

11 minutes ago, batson said:

Japanese media continues to go by the traditional point of view that seems to be "what's the point of a character being a girl if she isn't girly?".

What a fixer upper.

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59 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Power gap? What do you mean?

The power gap between Sonic...and everyone else.

Metal Sonic, Sonic, Shadow, Blaze, Silver, E-123 Omega, Big, Vector, Knuckles, Rouge, Espio, Amy, Tails, Cream, and Charmy.

Marine.

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3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The power gap between Sonic...and everyone else.

Metal Sonic, Sonic, Shadow, Blaze, Silver, E-123 Omega, Big, Vector, Knuckles, Rouge, Espio, Amy, Tails, Cream, and Charmy.

Marine.

It's just like Shadow said.

Though when (if) they reintroduce multiple playable characters in the main 3D titles it'll probably be like the power gap never existed.

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8 hours ago, MainJP said:

It's just like Shadow said.

Though when (if) they reintroduce multiple playable characters in the main 3D titles it'll probably be like the power gap never existed.

That isn't quite a good example and is a retcon. The line there was written when they didn't think shadow was going to exist after one game. Shadow's a weird entity because he's never been subject to the power gap. After he came back he was super strong and called himself the ultimate life form, arguably more capable than a lot of the cast. This continues into recent times like for example generations where you have to fight a shadow from another time period and forces where they legit couldn't think of anything so he had to be surgically removed from the story to make it work. Shadow and Blaze have largely avoided the power gap situation because if they don't want to use them, they just wont.

Blaze like shadow, is a character who's thing is being powerful. If that's your thing, you get to basically avoid the power gap. She's this super powerful princess that can shoot fire out of her hands and go super and she largely gets to to be this in all media. Even the comics. It just sucks that the only girl character not subject to the power gap is blaze. I would like more girls to not be subject to the power gap.. so to speak. While I think blaze is cool, it is unfortunate that the guy side of the sonic roster can have a few super powerful and capable cool dudes and the girl side of the roster has... blaze. It also sucks that they aren't bothering to make more. As mentioned in this thread their last attempt at girl character outside of sticks was literally " Girl " character in zeena and she's incredibly boring. The problem there is that the shift in tone and focus, maybe in future if they get back to adventure stuff, we might get more cool girls that might not be subject to the power gap.

Edit: and even then that doesn't solve the issue. Because blaze is one in several of their girl characters and the same people in charge of making the characters are still in charge... so there's no garuntee things would change.

 

They wont pretend that the power gap never existed, it will just be like before some characters will just wont be subject to the power gap. Shadow and blaze have never been subject to the power gap...ever. They have always just been really strong and cool, I guess they might remove knuckles power gap though.

 

 

8 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Until the final boss happens.

Eh not really? Back when there were more playable dudes it was usually happy cooperation than won the day more than anything else. They would just work together.

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9 hours ago, MainJP said:

Power gap? What do you mean?

I mean in terms of what each character is capable of in comparison to the others. 

8 hours ago, StaticMania said:

The power gap between Sonic...and everyone else.

Metal Sonic, Sonic, Shadow, Blaze, Silver, E-123 Omega, Big, Vector, Knuckles, Rouge, Espio, Amy, Tails, Cream, and Charmy.

Marine.

 

8 hours ago, MainJP said:

It's just like Shadow said.

Though when (if) they reintroduce multiple playable characters in the main 3D titles it'll probably be like the power gap never existed.

No, that's not quite what I was saying. At all. 

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7 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

That isn't quite a good example and is a retcon. The line there was written when they didn't think shadow was going to exist after one game. Shadow's a weird entity because he's never been subject to the power gap. After he came back he was super strong and called himself the ultimate life form, arguably more capable than a lot of the cast. This continues into recent times like for example generations where you have to fight a shadow from another time period and forces where they legit couldn't think of anything so he had to be surgically removed from the story to make it work. Shadow and Blaze have largely avoided the power gap situation because if they don't want to use them, they just wont.

 

That was a joke.

7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I mean in terms of what each character is capable of in comparison to the others. 

 

 

Is this an important enough factor? They’re all capable enough.

Blaze is the most powerful out of the females so far but the others are still pretty strong. Amy has enough physical strength to produce tornadoes and shockwaves with her swings (Pink Typhoon in Battle and Tornado Hammer in Heroes). She is also pretty agile. Then we have Rouge who’s capable of curb-stomping Amy multiple times as we’ve in Battle's story mode and is apparently strong and skilled enough to hang with Knuckles...and cause Earthquakes by sitting on the ground. She could choke out Cthulu with those thighs.

Then there’s Cream with the cheap ability of (C)heesing bosses, a trait she shares with Mighty and she's a faster flyer than Tails apparently. That and they’re all speedsters to a degree with Blaze being the fastest one would assume.

They basically all excel at different skills and each bring something to the table.

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On 8/10/2019 at 10:54 AM, Shadowlax said:

 

Eh not really? Back when there were more playable dudes it was usually happy cooperation than won the day more than anything else. They would just work together.

She's referring to how the final boss is often some super powered mech, monster, or diety that requires Sonic and/or Shadow to use the Chaos Emeralds or whatever other artifacts to go Super. 

20 hours ago, MainJP said:

 

Then there’s Cream with the cheap ability of (C)heesing bosses, a trait she shares with Mighty and she's a faster flyer than Tails apparently. 

More accurately, she can tag team with Chao in addition to dropping from above herself. She also apparently has some minor magical ability, albeit non-damaging. 

On 8/10/2019 at 10:54 AM, Shadowlax said:

That isn't quite a good example and is a retcon. The line there was written when they didn't think shadow was going to exist after one game. Shadow's a weird entity because he's never been subject to the power gap. After he came back he was super strong and called himself the ultimate life form, arguably more capable than a lot of the cast. This continues into recent times like for example generations where you have to fight a shadow from another time period and forces where they legit couldn't think of anything so he had to be surgically removed from the story to make it work. Shadow and Blaze have largely avoided the power gap situation because if they don't want to use them, they just wont.

Blaze like shadow, is a character who's thing is being powerful. If that's your thing, you get to basically avoid the power gap. She's this super powerful princess that can shoot fire out of her hands and go super and she largely gets to to be this in all media. Even the comics. It just sucks that the only girl character not subject to the power gap is blaze. I would like more girls to not be subject to the power gap.. so to speak. While I think blaze is cool, it is unfortunate that the guy side of the sonic roster can have a few super powerful and capable cool dudes and the girl side of the roster has... blaze. It also sucks that they aren't bothering to make more. As mentioned in this thread their last attempt at girl character outside of sticks was literally " Girl " character in zeena and she's incredibly boring. The problem there is that the shift in tone and focus, maybe in future if they get back to adventure stuff, we might get more cool girls that might not be subject to the power gap.

Edit: and even then that doesn't solve the issue. Because blaze is one in several of their girl characters and the same people in charge of making the characters are still in charge... so there's no garuntee things would change.

 

They wont pretend that the power gap never existed, it will just be like before some characters will just wont be subject to the power gap. Shadow and blaze have never been subject to the power gap...ever. They have always just been really strong and cool, I guess they might remove knuckles power gap though.

 

Is that a way of saying they tend to be overpowered/hyper competent? :smirk:

36 minutes ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

I feel like Blaze's character was hurt by her association with Silver since 2006

Mm...how so, pray tell? 

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7 minutes ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

It conflicts with her backstory and she feels more like Silver's Girlfriend nowadays than her own character

It doesn't conflict with her backstory really. They met offscreen, and they think they knew each other from somewhere else, if Colors DS is to be believed. 

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