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Owen Deane

How SonAmy might benefit the series

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3 hours ago, Iko said:

I'm a Kirby fan too and I know what they're talking about.

It's the final scene of Kirby 64 (true ending). There's a ceremony to celebrate the heroes for saving Ripple Star (Ribbon's home planet), and at the end Ribbon kisses Kirby.

While Kirby blushes and all, the scene is not intended to be anything, it's just a gag, and this is never brought back in subsequent games, nor in Kirby 64 itself (not even in Kirby Star Allies where Ribbon returned). I think it's meaningless and it was never intended to make Ribbon a love interest for Kirby, I think it's just a gag for comedy purposes; the kiss is not a love kiss but a "thank you".

 

The fact that you had to say that much goes to show how this whole shipping thing runs.

 

3 hours ago, Iko said:

 

On the other hand, there was another character that was said to be in love for Kirby (I think this comes from comics and different media, not from the games, but it's probably canon since there are some cutscenes and elements that reference it). Chuchu, the pink octopus blob thing, is said to be in love with Kirby. Though, Kirby doesn't seem to care, at all... he doesn't run away, nor shows any sign of sharing the feeling (aside from his facial expression in the sprite when the two characters are together in the game). Chuchu's personality is not much different than Amy's during the fangirl era: she wants to stay with Kirby and gets angry when someone or something blocks her from being with him... she can become violent at times, but she tries hard to hide this side of her personality.

chuchu.png.4a73155332499cace1f32bd4f6e52b70.png

chuchu2.png.45de1a60e442bbc225d8abbb99746176.png

Though Chuchu appears rarely in the series, and even when she appears, she is never considered a "main" character... even in Star Allies, she only appears during a specific move of the Cleaning ability (while the main 3 animal friends are together a playable character).

Yeah, that's the one.

Also, I swear I saw a commercial a while back that had a clip with what looked like a little blue/purple/whatever Kirby with a bow from Right Back at Ya, but couldn't find it for the life of me.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

 

I think HAL realized it, Kirby doesn't need a Minnie Mouse/Ms Pac-Man because it would shift the focus of the series and change the image of the character, and IMO the same goes for Sonic.

 

I'd just wonder whether they cared to begin with.

3 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Candy Kong use to exist...

Hal didn't realize anything, Chuchu as well as the other Dreamland friends were only part of a specific set of games...it was nothing more than that.

Yeah, I was about to say.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

You know how Pac-Man is shown to have a family in many of his games right? Imagine if Dixie Kong was Donkey Kong's girlfriend... it would have been completely different right? They made her the girlfriend of Diddy Kong instead, and the main character does not seem to have any.

Wasn't that because other companies kept making clone games and so Namco just immigrated them into the universe until Ghostly Adventures?

Also, age/species gap.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

I think that the relationship between Amy and Sonic is fine as it is and doesn't need to go futher. The point is, Amy's character is based on that relationship, and if the relationship can't go futher, you can't have much character development for her. That's why I would rather let Amy appear less and become less important, than let Amy be everywhere and be dull/pointless or out of character like she recently is (they changed her personality completely and the love for Sonic is only slighty referenced at times).

I guess that makes sense?

Honestly, Amy seems like a good example of "The Girl Character" pattern. Where they tend to be either a love interest and/or have some extraneous ability(Piko Piko Hammer and whatever other power/skill she has this week) to make them stand out.

With that said, I think it makes more sense to just have her doing her own thing sometimes. I feel the bulk of the problem with her in TSR is that she seemed overly standardized:

  • She almost felt like she was supposed to be the effective protagonist of the early parts of the story, but did next to nothing to guide the direction before eventually giving way to Silver(who gradually fades out him after Zavok joins the races)
  • She somewhat shared her role with Tails and Knuckles in questioning and being suspicious of Dodon Pa, but did little about it character-wise even if the latter's outlook is out of character for her anyway
  • Whether it's because of the absence of Cream, Omochao's "just here now" status, the Chao Trio just being a nonentity, or a combination of the three, she really has no one to just have friendly chats with for most of the story and thus express herself under normal circumstances
  • Her above it all attitude towards Big, Sonic(!), and I guess Shadow seemed to wanna evoke her Boom characterization without most of the sheer flagrance of that series, not to mention being pretty out of character for her in general

Add in that her primary character traits--her admiration for Sonic and plucky nature--is barely if ever expressed and you got an Amy that's not much of anything.

4 hours ago, Iko said:

 

Also, I think she's recently stealing Tails' role as the clever of the group, and as a side effect, Tails is becoming just a joke, a MacGyver parody. Tails should have been the one who organized the resistance in Forces, and since he's a bit shy, it would have made sense for him to have Knuckles as the face of the group despite him being behind all the strategies. Amy should have been the one desperate because Sonic was missing, the one being scared when Chaos came out, and the one who met Classic Sonic and went with him indepedently from the resistance. It would have been way more fitting for both characters if their roles were switched.

Mm...yes and no. Not really sure where I stand on that just yet.

4 hours ago, Iko said:

 

I don't know what do you think about anime and how many of you watch/like them, though, if you have seen Attack on Titan, well, Armin is definitely Tails. I can't believe they made a game with a similar theme (war, population being harmless against the threat, small group of people with above-average fighting skills who tries to fight the apparently invincible enemy) they didn't put Tails in the equivalent role, but put Amy in it instead.

Wow. Didn't expect this to come up here. Yeah, I supposed he would generally be Armin.

Eh, the main thing is, there really isn't an equivalent Knuckles in Attack on Titan, from what we know from the anime; Eren, Connie, and Jean are probably the closest you can get, but none of them really fight the full criteria and Commander Erwin certainly doesn't.

So it's kinda hard to really weigh. Nevermind that the reverse setup would see Armin replaced by Sasha.

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9 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

  • Her above it all attitude towards Big, Sonic(!), and I guess Shadow seemed to wanna evoke her Boom characterization without most of the sheer flagrance of that series, not to mention being pretty out of character for her in general

The "above it all" attitude from Amy is much less pronounced in the Japanese script of TSR. Here's the cookie scene as an example.

 

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9 minutes ago, MainJP said:

The "above it all" attitude from Amy is much less pronounced in the Japanese script of TSR. Here's the cookie scene as an example.

 

Yes, that is not American. Now what did she say?

Funnily enough, I think that's one of the scenes where it's kinda reasonable/cute.

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2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Yes, that is not American. Now what did she say?

Turn on the captions. Windii translates the Japanese versions and translates the Japanese manuals on Sonic retro.

2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Funnily enough, I think that's one of the scenes where it's kinda reasonable/cute.

She sounds condescending in the English localization ngl.

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2 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Turn on the captions. Windii translates the Japanese versions and translates the Japanese manuals on Sonic retro.

She sounds condescending in the English localization ngl.

Doy! My bad.

Ah, now that is straightforwardly cute.

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7 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

What would benefit the series is good storytelling (like Sonic Adventure).

I'm still annoyed they glossed over Knuckle seeing and being around the Knuckles tribe. No real reaction from him.

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25 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

What would benefit the series is good storytelling (like Sonic Adventure).

Well, obviously.

That and/or maybe good story-to-gameplay integration

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Also, I swear I saw a commercial a while back that had a clip with what looked like a little blue/purple/whatever Kirby with a bow from Right Back at Ya, but couldn't find it for the life of me.

That was a specific episode of the anime... there was a villain who splitted Kirby into two, one half male and the other half female. It's still Kirby.

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On 8/17/2019 at 4:50 AM, Owen Deane said:

1. It would make Amy the happiest she's ever been. 

2. It would make SonAmy fans' days.

3. It would remove Sonic's debatable "shyness", making him 100% hero.

4. Sonic would have a roof over his head.

5. It would benefit their world, as since they'll likely have their own kids, they'd probably inherit some of their heroic traits, thus, new heroes would be born.

6. Story-wise, it could take the games in an interesting direction.

7. Sonic would feel proud if he helped bless the world with a new hero or more in the long run.

8. Sonic Team teases it to no end.

9. It would make for some interesting character development for both hedgehogs, something I'm sure we all miss, right? For example, Sonic could realise that running from every situation/problem/dilemma doesn't always make them go away, and that you need to deal with them properly.

10. Amy might lose her short tempered side, since she'd have Sonic as her partner.

So, do you agree, or disagree? If so, why?

I would be okay with SonAmy becoming a thing, but not with many of those results.

Back when he still worked for Sonic Team, Yuji Naka was asked if they'll ever get together, and he said "I think it would be better if Amy just keeps chasing Sonic".  Back then I was big into shipping so it gave me an aversion to Naka.  Since then, I have moved on from shipping and come to see how valuable Naka was to the series' quality, given just how much worse it got once he left...but I still find that opinion dumb.  When it comes to Sonic, the only thing Amy pursuing him affects is it causes him to run...which he already does, often without an excuse.  Amy herself has done a few other things based on her pursuit, but it's such a shallow motive that others could be substituted for it pretty easily.  It is also, for many, a very annoying motive; seemingly plucked out of thin air concurrently with Amy suddenly becoming more prominent, and so I always supported character development for Amy, to at the very least make her less annoying.

However, developing it in a way that just puts even more baggage on Sonic isn't a good idea; they need to keep in mind what Sonic is supposed to be about if they get Sonic and Amy together, and that means they shouldn't devote much plot to establishing the relationship.  At least not within the games; spin-off media could do a bit more, but not to the extent that it changes genres from action-adventure to romance.  The best way for SonAmy to manifest in the games would be spontaneously and unceremoniously, akin to how Dixie Kong was introduced in Donkey Kong Country 2.  "Diddy Kong has a girlfriend now", for the purpose of that game, didn't mean any more than just "Diddy Kong has someone else besides Donkey Kong that he can go on adventures with."  Same with Sonic; in games where he can have a buddy character tagging along, Amy being his girlfriend doesn't have to have any more significance than that.  If there's dialog, they can talk about their relationship, but I wouldn't want it to be something that added drama to the plot; at least not in itself.  What I would be okay with is it being used to further incentivize one character or the other in the case that his or her partner is captured or in danger, because again, going and rescuing someone in danger is something that fits with the mechanics of this series.  A dating-sim-style conversation tree or slow scenes designed to make Sonic look like an idealized boyfriend don't fit.

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4 hours ago, Iko said:

That was a specific episode of the anime... there was a villain who splitted Kirby into two, one half male and the other half female. It's still Kirby.

Oh really? That's interesting.

Might have to look that up.

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16 hours ago, Iko said:

 

I think that the relationship between Amy and Sonic is fine as it is and doesn't need to go futher. The point is, Amy's character is based on that relationship, and if the relationship can't go futher, you can't have much character development for her. That's why I would rather let Amy appear less and become less important, than let Amy be everywhere and be dull/pointless or out of character like she recently is (they changed her personality completely and the love for Sonic is only slighty referenced at times).

I don't think she's dull at all. Infact her being less obsessed with sonic is interesting and active gives her a personality. Personally I would prefer if they droped it , I think it would be cool. lessening that and focusing on who she is by herself isn't dull or pointless, its what gives characters longevity.

16 hours ago, Iko said:

Also, I think she's recently stealing Tails' role as the clever of the group, and as a side effect, Tails is becoming just a joke, a MacGyver parody. Tails should have been the one who organized the resistance in Forces, and since he's a bit shy, it would have made sense for him to have Knuckles as the face of the group despite him being behind all the strategies. Amy should have been the one desperate because Sonic was missing, the one being scared when Chaos came out, and the one who met Classic Sonic and went with him indepedently from the resistance. It would have been way more fitting for both characters if their roles were switched.

I don't agree.

Of all things take Scooby do. If Tails is velma dinkly , Amy is Daphnie Blake. Daph is actually pretty smart, she becomes a reporter and can generally pin down what's going on and why its going on, she can get reads on people. This is a different type of intelligence than velma who's more like technical in her intelligence. Tails can like build a ship real good, but he's like 8 doesn't know much and doesn't know how to interact with most people. While amy isn't as technically smart as tails, her being able to read people really well and even in things like boom being an archeologyst fits.

One person being the only smart person in all ways is kinda silly and dumb and shouldn't really be something that's done.

 

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Its kinda the fatal flaw with making the character the " thing " character, there are different variants on thing. Different takes catalysis or in the case of intelligence different types of intelligence. I don't mind characters sharing some traits as long as they don't become the same character , its cool. its how that character is used as those traits manifest in their mannerisms is what makes the difference.

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On 8/18/2019 at 4:21 PM, Wraith said:

It's pretty fun to think about with Knuckles because romance is so far out of his wheelhouse. He can barely handle having friends to begin with. 

It's why I like his dynamic with Rouge a lot. They handle their mutual attraction like a couple of first graders would and just give eachother shit.

I prefer Rouge and Knuckles as rivals more than couple , TSR animation showed funny rivalry between them without shoving some crap romance in it . Then I  guess there is no need for romance between Knuckles and Rouge , rivalry is enough to do the purpose  .

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12 hours ago, Gumbit said:

I prefer Rouge and Knuckles as rivals more than couple , TSR animation showed funny rivalry between them without shoving some crap romance in it . Then I  guess there is no need for romance between Knuckles and Rouge , rivalry is enough to do the purpose  .

boring

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15 hours ago, Gumbit said:

I prefer Rouge and Knuckles as rivals more than couple , TSR animation showed funny rivalry between them without shoving some crap romance in it . Then I  guess there is no need for romance between Knuckles and Rouge , rivalry is enough to do the purpose  .

I agree honestly. Them bickering is more fun than them being in romantic relationship TBH.

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I'm going to bring up the forbidden text of Sonic X.

 

 

But I think that's the best their relationship has been portrayed; they're still very antagonistic to each other, but it's obvious they care about each other's well being and Rouge takes so much piss out Knuckles I  it.

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10 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Not for or against either scenario, but being in a romantic relationship as teens/young adults would result in petty bickering anyway.

Not necessarily  , being rivals is enough to do the purpose .

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7 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'm going to bring up the forbidden text of Sonic X.

 

 

But I think that's the best their relationship has been portrayed; they're still very antagonistic to each other, but it's obvious they care about each other's well being and Rouge takes so much piss out Knuckles I  it.

Knuckles and Rouge rivalry isn't really ruthless , but in the same time it shouldn't reach the point of intimacy , you can say they can be friend/rival relationship .

As for Rouge teasing Knuckles , I don't really find it something special at all , Rouge basically would tease anyone , she teased Topaz in Sonic X , teased Omega in final in scene in forces ,  teased Vector in IDW comic , teased Knuckles in TSR overdrive , and recently teased him in story mode . So , I don't think romance  is what drives her to tease , it's basically her nature and personality .

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On 8/19/2019 at 2:23 PM, MainJP said:

I'm still annoyed they glossed over Knuckle seeing and being around the Knuckles tribe. No real reaction from him.

Yeah, that was weird. It's kinda like he wasn't processing what he was looking at.

On 8/20/2019 at 2:11 AM, Shadowlax said:

I don't think she's dull at all. Infact her being less obsessed with sonic is interesting and active gives her a personality. Personally I would prefer if they droped it , I think it would be cool. lessening that and focusing on who she is by herself isn't dull or pointless, its what gives characters longevity.

I don't agree.

Of all things take Scooby do. If Tails is velma dinkly , Amy is Daphnie Blake. Daph is actually pretty smart, she becomes a reporter and can generally pin down what's going on and why its going on, she can get reads on people. This is a different type of intelligence than velma who's more like technical in her intelligence. Tails can like build a ship real good, but he's like 8 doesn't know much and doesn't know how to interact with most people. While amy isn't as technically smart as tails, her being able to read people really well and even in things like boom being an archeologyst fits.

One person being the only smart person in all ways is kinda silly and dumb and shouldn't really be something that's done.

 

Mm...maybe smart isn't the catch all word for what Amy is.

On 8/20/2019 at 2:17 AM, StaticMania said:

That's always the fatal flaw of the "smart" character...

What is?

On 8/20/2019 at 8:12 PM, Gumbit said:

I prefer Rouge and Knuckles as rivals more than couple , TSR animation showed funny rivalry between them without shoving some crap romance in it . Then I  guess there is no need for romance between Knuckles and Rouge , rivalry is enough to do the purpose  .

 

10 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I agree honestly. Them bickering is more fun than them being in romantic relationship TBH.

 

10 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Not for or against either scenario, but being in a romantic relationship as teens/young adults would result in petty bickering anyway.

 

7 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'm going to bring up the forbidden text of Sonic X.

 

 

But I think that's the best their relationship has been portrayed; they're still very antagonistic to each other, but it's obvious they care about each other's well being and Rouge takes so much piss out Knuckles I  it.

I mean, Rouge is essentially a Catwoman expy.

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On 8/17/2019 at 7:43 AM, Osmium said:

Actually he wouldn't give a toss. Sonic only saves the world because he feels like it and it is just a pastime to him. He's not a professional superhero and a lineage of planet protectors really isn't something he would be interested in watching over.

I disagree with that.  Hedonism is a big part of Sonic's personality, but it isn't his motive.  If that was all there was to Sonic, he would be picking fights with the proper authorities every time a villain isn't threatening the world, and clearly he doesn't. The simple fact that in many games he has to break a canister of animals in order to beat some stages shows that he has compassion.  It's more accurate to say Sonic really likes the feeling of freedom and doesn't like those who restrict it; this isn't just a self-interest but essentially his basis of ethics.  Not the deepest of ethics, but they're not just a selfish "So long as I'm happy I don't give a toss"; rather "Everyone deserves to be happy".

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