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StarWarsSonic

Anyone else bored of Eggman being the villain? Also the series should go back to basics!

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I have just come to the realisation that as much as I like Eggman that I’m just so bored of him now. He’s the instigator of all the trouble in every game and I just feel the series would become fresher if it took a different route when it comes to a villain. 

I feel a good idea to freshen up the series in general and remove the dead weight as it were would be for the next 2-3 games to just have Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy as the only playable heroes!

With just 4 characters to focus on you could really spend time on some real character development and not worry about dozens of other side characters (Chaotix, Silver, Cream, Rouge, Omega, Big) etc.

Build upon the groundwork Sonic Adventure laid with Tails and Amy becoming more strong and independent unlike the awful way Tails was depicted in Sonic Forces as a coward.

With Knuckles he could discover more about his background/origins of his people/the Master Enerald, why he is the only surviving Echidna (is he?) 

The new game could start with Sonic, Tails and Amy all being off on their own adventures whilst Knuckles is on his own quest to discover more about his past in the Mystic Ruins. As the story develops they can all be brought together to face a common enemy. 

I’m not saying never use any of the other characters or Eggman again! I just feel that if Sonic Team just went back to basics for a couple of games, brought in a fresh new villain and focused on proper character development for Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy it would feel like a fresh start to the series.

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That's like two topics at one, but whatever.

1) Game without Eggman? Actually why not, I  wouldn't mind. These days he's one of better written characters, but at least next Deadly Six or Chaos will have more time to develop and won't have to usurp Eggman again. I mean, Malekif in Thor 2 was bland because they removed a lot of his time for Loki.

2) Going back to basics: you do realize  that 06 was last main game where Recurring Cast was more than a wallpaper? Sonic Colors and Lost World didn't managed to develop Tails in any way, not in satisfying for the audience. Or Amy's role in Unleashed. Or anyone in Boom tittles.

Writing at Sonic Team is somewhat of a mess these days, and "scaling it down" to Core Cast isn't a solution. Heck, I enjoyed the novelty of Forces giving us a little of Recurring Cast.

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If anything we need Eggman to actually play the villain again. Most recently we've had Deadly Six, Lyric and Infinite as the focal villains, so we haven't really had much focus on him in the 'modern games'.

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Eggman is a fabulous hunk of chubby butter and I will not have the patriarchy speaking ill of our lord and savior.

Personally, I've found Eggman the most interesting when he isn't the main villain, surprisingly. Eggman somehow was at his most boring he's ever been when he was at the head in Forces and Eggman was incredibly interesting all throughout Lost World until that ending where he was forced into that spot for the final boss.

Thats not to say I care one way or the other. Have him be the main villain or have him be a 3rd party doing the Vegeta on Planet Namek thing. Where he's an asshole throwing a wrench into the plans of both sides like a good chaotic mad man.

Just write him well and I'll be fine.

Just keep him around.

Forever.

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You'll get tired of Eggman being the main villain when he's actually the main villain 100% throughout he story for more than 1 game.

So far, it's just been Sonic Colors.

Even in Forces, Infinite was more at the forefront doing actual villainous things than Eggman. He did them for Eggman, but Eggman's entire role was reduced story wise.

Eggman's not a man-behind-the-man type of villain, so it really does him no favors to be so hands-off.

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When I was referring to basics I was referring to just focusing on the 4 hero characters of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy instead of shoving all the extended friends in giving no space or time for any real character development.

In regards to Eggman I just thought it would be a cool change just to give him a small break for now and just focus on a new villain for a change that’s not just a monster awoken from a deep sleep/robot created by Eggman.

 

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Eggman is kind of really annoying now. He runs half the cutscenes in the new games with his personality and its gotten grating. You could do a more basic premise without him and that'd be one of the ways to keep it fresh. "Back to basics" doesn't have to translate into "Eggman has taken over an island and stolen x macguffin".

Also: We've been "back to basics" for a while now. The type of game you're suggesting is actually much more complex than the games we've been getting.

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going back to the basics means having just sonic as the only playable character. which I would love of course :) i'll take it further and say that there doesn't need to be a villain at all. the game could take a more obstacle course type approach, like some fan hacks I've seen. 

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31 minutes ago, StarWarsSonic said:

When I was referring to basics I was referring to just focusing on the 4 hero characters of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy instead of shoving all the extended friends in giving no space or time for any real character development.

The amount of characters isn't really what decides that. Its how good a story-teller you are.

You could have 16 characters in a game and give them all something cool and meaningful to do if you truly wanted to.

Honestly, for me, it might even be easier that way. More unique characters to bounce off of means more things to explore about their personalities as far as I'm concerned.

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The last other main villain we had was D-Fekt. Much like the Hard Boiled Heavies, he’s redeemed as well, which makes more sense for him due to Sticks’s affection. Every villain since Time Eater, HBH included, has been rather flat or downright stupefying. Ultimately, having him out of the picture entirely seems to be the best bet for them to get used to other villains again. 

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48 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Eggman is kind of really annoying now. He runs half the cutscenes in the new games with his personality and its gotten grating.

He's barely in a fourth of Forces cutscenes and his bombastic personality is very underplayed. For a game about Eggman conquering the planet he has very little presence in that game 

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3 minutes ago, Soniman said:

He's barely in a fourth of Forces cutscenes and his bombastic personality is very underplayed. For a game about Eggman conquering the planet he has very little presence in that game 

That's one modern game out of the decade's worth where he gets plenty of time.

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2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

That's one modern game out of the decade's worth where he gets plenty of time.

He's pretty lacking.

On the side where he's on full display: Sonic Colors and Sonic Lost World

Then Sonic Unleashed is in this middling position because of how that game's story plays out, Eggman's kind of out there, but then most of the game is about Sonic and Chip, he's not really seen much.

On the side where he's kinda downplayed: Sonic Generations and Sonic Forces

He's got decent screen time.

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"Hey, you know this one thing? Well, let's talk about this other stuff!"

Anyway, sorta?

Chalk it up as part of yet another accusation of the series playing it safe, but it does sorta feel like they've been banking on the Big Round Guy a little too much some times. He's definitely great and all, but one can't help but notice how even if it's not too far removed from how things were previously anyway, some of the recent games' attempts to go other places and have other things as a major focus is almost always shelled by having Eggman superiorly emphasized. This is particularly obvious since they've started bringing alternative, more sentient villains that get a chunk of play before going, "Oh, you thought this new guy was gonna be the Big Bad? Sic--Robotnik is the Giant Egg! See, his place is undeniably at the top of the food chain, so you got nothing to worry about." 

With that said, him just being around sometimes is fine. Also, kinda ironic how you talk about going back to basics when this genius wrote the basics.

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Stupid question: how using Core Cast (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy) can be considered 'going back to basics' when Amy was never playable in older games, let alone appearing next to Tails or Knuckles? Spin-offs don't count.

I have a theory that that Amy, Metal (and maybe Knuckles) weren't meant to become the core of the series, not more than Baby Metroid or playable characters in Castlevania 3, animal friends in Kirby 3, etc.  But Sonic had bigger coverage, bunch of spin-off and long time between Sonic 3 and SA1 cemented the idea that Knuckles is essential part of the adventure, no matter how much it contradicts his job as Guardian.

It wasn't Modern Cast that started a flood of characters with large fanbase that now need to be pushed somewhere. Knuckles did (to be fair, at least he had unique and fun gameplay, unlike Shadow or Mech shooting)

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I'm annoyed with how this series treats him, if that's what you mean.

They should really just let him loose. The guy is capable of anything and that's without exaggeration -- his genius, virtually infinite supply of resources, and expertise of multiple fields of pseudo-science legit means he probably the closest mortal to god-tier powers. Sounds dumb, but for someone who can both create life and bend time, it's not that far of a statement.

Rather than play up his abilities, they bring him up for a few cutscenes, talk, make a few gloats, run around a little, and do a lot of nothing. Sonic is actually in a similar boat, really. Sonic talks a bit, gives a few gloats back, and then gameplay. All of Sonic's actions are reserved for the gameplay, which would BE more entertaining if it were more involved than boosts and automation. Maybe Forces are more interesting in comparison than Colors, Generations, and Lost World? I don't know. I haven't had any kind of motivation to play it. But from what I heard, it's the exact same thing but with more smashed up stuff in the background.

I'm tired of the lack of action, lack of any form of competence, and the feelings of everything happening around him, while nothing is happening at all.

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Dude, Eggman needs enemy introduction cutscenes.

Just scenes that introduces each of his boss machines that sets up the boss fights, that'd be 100% better than how he's been used this last decade.

It'd easily solve his lack of hands-on involvement in fighting Sonic, that's fo' sho'.

It would also setup teh threat factor depending on the boss design.

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29 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Dude, Eggman needs enemy introduction cutscenes.

Just scenes that introduces each of his boss machines that sets up the boss fights, that'd be 100% better than how he's been used this last decade.

It'd easily solve his lack of hands-on involvement in fighting Sonic, that's fo' sho'.

It would also setup teh threat factor depending on the boss design.

Yes and no. It's a lot deeper than this.

You can create a cool robot with cool animation and all that and some will be more memorable than others -- that's just the nature of level bosses.

This is a problem that existed for a while. While I won't be talking about bosses, I want to talk about the centerpiece of each of Eggman's threatening creations or plan for the game. Not the god-monsters he recruited, unless he literally converted them for his needs (like Time Eater.) In such, I won't talk about Chaos but will the Egg Carrier -- Eggman didn't create Chaos.

Honestly, the weight of Eggman's threat seems more like we're told but never shown. This is a problem I feel that's been in this series from, at least, the second title. But more specifically the third.

They undersell everything he does on his own.

Death Egg? What it do? Worse we seen, it activated a volcano.

Egg Carrier? What it do? Dunno. It had a large laser cannon, but the best we seen, it clipped the Tornado. Clipped it.

Eclipse  Cannon? HOLY CRAP IT DESTROYED THE MOON, THAT'S BADASS, HOLY MOTHER F- Wait, that's his grandfather's.

Egg Fleet? They're ships. There's a lot of them. And they're ships. And there's a lot of them. And they're Eggman's. And there's a lot of them. And that's it.

I honestly forgot what was supposed to be even happening in 06. Or Unleashed. I don't think he built any specific huge thing there. Was just chasing gods in both. For whatever reason.

Mind control with Hyper-Go-On? We saw what it could do. Last like a minute or two on Tails with two full tanks of the stuff, and had to be constantly fed into his victim. Besides Sonic feeling the need to save the poor little aliens, he didn't even really have to get involved with that plan... If Eggman couldn't keep Tails under his control for more than a couple of minutes, how was he planning to do anything with a whole planet? Sonic didn't have to show up. I mean, it'd suck for the Wisps, but Earth would have been just fine.

Time Eater?  This is different. You know, this is actually one of the times I feel like he pulled everything off just fine. Captured everyone, turned all of Sonic's friends to stone (bar Shadow and Silver) and even bitched-slapped Sonic out of the sky and knocked him out. He then sends everyone to a timeless zone. That worked out pretty nicely. But it's not framed that way, rather it's framed as "you always lose" with no pushback. Even a simple line like, "Sonic, you've already lost. How do you think you all got here?" would have helped.

Didn't create the Zeti, but the 'machine' used to absorb the life force of Earth seems to be the thing here. Problem is they had to make Tails do something 'even Eggman couldn't do' and somehow reprogram a piece of hardware (imagine reprogramming a drill to go both ways when it was designed to only go one way. You'd have to change the hardware to allow it) that he had no hand in developing to just throw more mud at their main antagonist. You could have had Eggman deal with the software side and let Tails go fiddle with the hardware side.

There's just the need from SEGA to constantly lower his villain credit. And they feel it wouldn't be believable enough for Eggman to take over on his own when they refuse to let him.

I know, this is all a bit further than "how about some cool boss cutscenes?" Yeah, it might help hype up some boss fights, but wouldn't solve the real issue.

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2 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

 

Honestly, the weight of Eggman's threat seems more like we're told but never shown. This is a problem I feel that's been in this series from, at least, the second title. But more specifically the third.

They undersell everything he does on his own.

Death Egg? What it do? Worse we seen, it activated a volcano.

Egg Carrier? What it do? Dunno. It had a large laser cannon, but the best we seen, it clipped the tornado.

Eclipse? HOLY CRAP IT DESTROYED THE MOON, THAT'S BADASS, HOLY MOTHER F- Wait, that's his grandfather's.

Egg Fleet? They're ships. There's a lot of them. And they're ships. And there's a lot of them. And they're Eggman's. And there's a lot of them. And that's it.

 

He did create the Final Egg Blaster which he used to destroy multiple stars in Battle. That's way more impressive than busting a moon or even a planet.

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