Does Sonic need unification or Separation?

[Wraith]

16 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Yeah, I understand why the split is not the best solution to the divides, but reconciliation of the divisions may be insurmountable (not so much gameplay wise, though...), due to differences in tone, lore, and characterization over the years. I cannot really see Zazz in the same world as Tikal, etc.  

 

For some reason, the classic characters seem more easy reconcile with Dreamcast ones than the modern ones are. This may be due to the excellent comics that bridged the gap, bridged it several ways, and even discovered new paths of their own. Yet somehow the events of the later games can still feel awkward keeping older ones in mind.

 

It isn’t just Baldy McNosehair, it’s also about things like Sonic standing there and making awful puns rather than doing anything at all. It’s also Tails being a hinderance to Sonic. It’s also the most inept troupe of villains imaginable. That’s what needs to be separated from the beautiful stories of earlier games.

These are all the same emotional appeals that classic fans use. The continuity lines up fine and tonally the games aren't that different from eachother. This is all coming from someone who thinks most of the games after 2008 have bad stories and introduce bad characters compared to before.

[Shadowlax]

6 hours ago, Wraith said:

Where are your sources?

 As reputable as " people who work on the advertisement and data analytical/management stuff I have talked to on other sites are" which admittedly is pretty vague and probably means nothing to you. So feel free to disregard my statement , but from speaking with those people this is what I have gathered. Again, its vague as fuck so, if you want completely disregard.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

A better question I’d like to ask is this: how does one gain more through division?

How does that really solve things? Because people often suggest separating things as a knee jerk reaction to things going wrong as opposed to actually figuring out the problem. 

[Tracker_TD]

I'm honestly fine with whatever, as long as the games are good. As it is now, I can have the Classic stuff I can be sure I'll really really love (particularly in terms of merchandise, right now), and other folks get the Modern stuff they might love (including the comics and stuff). It's nice. I think as it is, there's enough difference between the 'Modern' and 'Classic' identities to give some merit to the separation, unlike say Adventure (which is really just Modern with... different writing and a somewhat different artstyle). I think one thing that doesn't get asked a lot is what would happen if SEGA's approach to 'one Sonic' would be to just axe the 'Modern' stuff and stick with Classic - a lot of folks assume they'd just axe Classic instead, and I dunno if they'd do that at this point. 

It's interesting to think about anyway. To be honest I'm not sure what the future holds on the game front because I don't really see a 'Mania 2' on the horizon - so I'll take whatever's next as it comes. I don't really tend to go into some deep, shareholder-esque brand longevity analysis with this topic - I see Classic fans get their share and Modern fans get their share and that's fine and dandy to me. Classic fans wanting more of what they love is no bad thing by me, because Classic Sonic is really fun. 

[Shadowlax]

36 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

I'm honestly fine with whatever, as long as the games are good. As it is now, I can have the Classic stuff I can be sure I'll really really love (particularly in terms of merchandise, right now), and other folks get the Modern stuff they might love (including the comics and stuff). It's nice. I think as it is, there's enough difference between the 'Modern' and 'Classic' identities to give some merit to the separation, unlike say Adventure (which is really just Modern with... different writing and a somewhat different artstyle). I think one thing that doesn't get asked a lot is what would happen if SEGA's approach to 'one Sonic' would be to just axe the 'Modern' stuff and stick with Classic - a lot of folks assume they'd just axe Classic instead, and I dunno if they'd do that at this point. 

I feel like you aren't giving it enough credit, different writing comes with different tone which means a lot to people. And different style comes with different visual style which also means a lot to people and both of these can turn people off if it doesn't fit the product. Like say the myriad of people who have stopped being internet in sonic products a long ass time ago but ask for another adventure type game on the internet. Or the people who outright state that the reason that they like classic sonic more, is its tone.  You can't just say its "this with out this"  because the things it does or does not have are often key to why people like those things. In terms of tones alone adventure era sonic and modern sonic are just different beasts and trying to mesh those tones often don't mix and yield uninteresting results. These things need to be taken into account when making any iteration on a long term IP. Primary who are you trying to appeal to

Quote

It's interesting to think about anyway. To be honest I'm not sure what the future holds on the game front because I don't really see a 'Mania 2' on the horizon - so I'll take whatever's next as it comes. I don't really tend to go into some deep, shareholder-esque brand longevity analysis with this topic - I see Classic fans get their share and Modern fans get their share and that's fine and dandy to me. Classic fans wanting more of what they love is no bad thing by me, because Classic Sonic is really fun. 

But like what is modern sonic's share? Like if adventure era stuff keeps coming and over takes modern sonic more sarcastic tone, and like more colorful visual style. Those modern fans will be kinda assed out and may not identify with what the product is. If you don't care that someone is out of luck, that's your business. I'm not judging you for that. But IP management is a lot more detail oriented than you would think

[Splash the Otter]

The thing about Modern fans is that they aren't all the same. There's a sizable portion of them who want a return to the Dreamcast era, and who can blame them? Their only choices right now are Classic Sonic or putting up with Boost gameplay, Wisps, Pontaff's writing and Zavok. I can totally understand why Miragnarok wants a Dreamcast/Modern split.

[Wraith]

as someone who likes the boost games, I can't think of anyone that would be hurting if the boost games dropped the boost for more technical gameplay and the stories became more actiony and serious. The overlap is simply massive and obvious 

I'd argue similar about classic Sonic but that's a whole other discussion. 

[Badnik Zero]

Since Sega seems to want to keep play styles separated, why doesn’t someone like Shadow play a slower less boosty Adventure style, while someone like Sonic plays a more boosty style. Both styles are solid to me. I’d prefer all styles belong to Sonic, but hoping for them to make a third hybrid style probably is fruitless. Wasn’t that Lost World’s experiment?

[Diogenes]

28 minutes ago, Badnik Zero said:

Since Sega seems to want to keep play styles separated, why doesn’t someone like Shadow play a slower less boosty Adventure style, while someone like Sonic plays a more boosty style.

Ideally I wouldn't be paying full price for a game I'm only really interested in half of, and that half requires me to play as a character I don't particularly like over one that I do.

[Badnik Zero]

Yeah, but you just described half of Sonic games in the past 10 years.

[Multikaris]

12 hours ago, Wraith said:

as someone who likes the boost games, I can't think of anyone that would be hurting if the boost games dropped the boost for more technical gameplay and the stories became more actiony and serious. The overlap is simply massive and obvious 

I'd argue similar about classic Sonic but that's a whole other discussion. 

I know that back in the Sega Forum days, there were a significant number of those who, while enjoying the modern games, were firmly against the more serious stories. 

[G-Force]

9 hours ago, Badnik Zero said:

Yeah, but you just described half of Sonic games in the past 10 years.

That doesn't make it a good thing.

[Shadowlax]

10 hours ago, Badnik Zero said:

Yeah, but you just described half of Sonic games in the past 10 years.

While the character thing may have not much sway. While yes there are differences in character preference. That generally doesn't have too much effect on folks buying things unless the perception of them is literally toxic. The game play thing is important and may have turned people off of a great many sonic games for the last few years. Part of the reason I think mania is successful because its A thing. Its like 1 thing done really well.