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Stuff that are canon but that you wish wasn't

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46 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Where have you been the past eleven years?

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You might've had a point if that was character specific...but it isn't.

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Because she was created by Evan Stanley, who seemingly really likes Silver and did a whole fan series around him years beforehand.

Good for her because it's a really good design. She reminds me a lot of Tikal.

 

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27 minutes ago, MainJP said:

You might've had a point if that was character specific...but it isn't.

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Good for him because it's a really good design. She reminds me a lot of Tikal.

 

Good for her, you mean.

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Sonic 06. No wait don't have to, it literally deleted itself in a sense. And even then, Sonic Forces. From day 1 it had me worried, I didn't believe the marketing one bit, and it ended up proving all of my fears right. It's not the worst gameplay wise in the series, but I hate it with a bloody passion. It offers nothing other games haven't done better in the formula, and it just pains me to even think about it. I mean I hate Sonic Boom as well and pretty much everything about it, but I can still see it did something right clearly as it has garnered some positive attention and made plenty of kids and adults happy. So I can chalk it up in the "Not for me" category. But I can't say the same about Forces. Other than Donut Steel, I don't get it at all. If it's supposed to be a parody of fanfiction, it played it waaaay too straight. It falls into most of the pit falls like a doofus. It's clearly not a parody, but I can't even treat it as one because it'd suck at that too. If not for Sonic Mania and the Mania Adventures cartoon this game would be....well....ok it'd just be more knives in me as the whole Sonic Boom thing and Sonic direction nearly killed my interest in Sonic what with it being the only direction we had. But I will say it'd be the most painful kick to the balls if Mania/Adventures didn't cushion the blow before and after the event. Forces confirms to me more than anything else how out of touch and incompetent Sonic Team is.

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Post-SA2 Shadow being the real Shadow. Maybe the only time in the series they actually tried to set up a plot point ahead of time and then they almost completely ignore it in favor of aliens and resolve it with a single line at the literal last minute. I think it would've been way more interesting to commit to having killed off Shadow and have this effectively new character try to figure out his place and his identity relative to him, rather than just giving Shadow amnesia and halfheartedly implementing "moral choices". They could even deus ex machina the original Shadow back later anyway, to placate his fans if they needed to...just actually do something interesting with the whole android thing.

Though I'm sure Sonic Team would've ballsed it up anyway.

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3 hours ago, Wraith said:

Sonic is such an episodic series that it's rare that a previous installment affects a new one in any significant capacity. It's hard for me to think about how rewrites and decanonizations could affect the series when there's no real overarching narrative. If you don't like a new Sonic character or concept you could at least be rest assured that the status quo would get rid of it or at least shove it into the background by the time the next game rolled around. 
 

 


 

There are some glaring exceptions though, like the Wisps, Zavok, etc. 

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7 hours ago, Tara said:

I don't like the way the Chaotix were re-introduced, which influences how they are still characterized in the few appearances they have today.  

What is it about the chaotix’s reintroduction that you don’t like? As a huge chaotix fan I’ve got some bias, but I do feel like the 3 are some of the more lively characters the modern series has to offer. 

I could understand if the issue was that their relationship with Knuckles was completely dropped and their old personalities have been completely lost, which I do wish they would’ve kept some semblance of. 

As for the topic at hand I’d like it if Shadow the Hedgehog could be cut from our timeline. 06 ruining Blaze’s backstory is another thing I have big issues with but that game wiped itself from canon so I guess it’s no issue. Pardon the obvious answers. 

Though I also don’t like the characters canon ages and none of them make sense. I always headcanon the cast as just being ageless like Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse.

*edit* oh yeah what the hell I completely forgot Forces exists so yeah I’d get rid of  that as soon as possible. It’s literally so bad to me that even being the most recent game it’s wiped from my memory. 

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6 minutes ago, Strong Guy said:

Though I also don’t like the characters canon ages and none of them make sense. I always headcanon the cast as just being ageless like Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse.

You mean like Amy owning an apartment, Tails being a home owner and Sonic & Tails being able to enter casino's, drive, etc.?

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14 hours ago, MainJP said:

If you don't mind can you explain these three in particular? 

Sure thing!

Eggman being a human: Humans are another thing I wish wasn't canon to the series. But since people would riot in the streets if Eggman was made non-canon, we obviously have to make an exception for him, right? Except now he's out of place in an otherwise furry setting. That's why I wish he wasn't a human.

Certain character design elements: I mean stuff like Sonic having beige arms, or certain characters having a monoeye.

Big and Rouge in general: I just don't like them, plain and simple. They're two of my least favorite Sonic characters.

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14 hours ago, Strong Guy said:

What is it about the chaotix’s reintroduction that you don’t like? As a huge chaotix fan I’ve got some bias, but I do feel like the 3 are some of the more lively characters the modern series has to offer. 

I could understand if the issue was that their relationship with Knuckles was completely dropped and their old personalities have been completely lost, which I do wish they would’ve kept some semblance of.

A bit of a cop-out answer, but most of it simply boils down to taste.  There are many words to describe the Chaotix, but "lively" isn't one that I would personally choose.

I'm not really a fan of characters whose sole purpose is to be loud and annoying.  But usually I can learn to appreciate them if the circumstances surrounding them are funny, if they actually have funny things to say, or if their interactions with other characters are interesting in some way.  Sonic, being a series that has never really had a knack for comedic timing, means that a set of characters not only intended mostly for comedic relief but extremely exaggerated comic relief only emphasizes just how poorly written much of the dialogue in the series is.  Charmy is probably the worst offender, especially in Shadow the Hedgehog.  I don't remember if Charmy was actually aged down from 16 to 6 or if that was just Archie Sonic coloring my perception of the character, but I do find myself groaning whenever he opens his mouth in every game where he has a speaking role.

I do like the Chaotix in terms of design and think that a band of comic relief detectives would be an extremely interesting fit for the series, but I don't think the Chaotix in their current incarnation do it for me.

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I wish Sonic Forces didn't happen the way it did.

I always feel I have to just go back to just how much of an intense disappointment and missed opportunity that game's story was everytime I try to imagine whatever the story for the next game could possibly be. The question of "How do you top this?" was thankfully answered for me when the Metal Virus idea came about but as far as the games are concerned, nothing is going to keep what they did with that game from being the biggest example of dropping the ball ever. They chucked the ball down an endless chasm. 

A game where the central focus and premise is that Dr. Eggman, the main villain of the almost 30 year old Sonic the Hedgehog series, has finally taken over the world should have been monumental. A nice big game with 3D levels that you can explore and see stuff happening in the stages (like in Shadow the Hedgehog actually) where the characters were evenly separated and doing their own thing (again, like in Shadow the Hedgehog) but with a heavy emphasis on just how much Eggman's influence has changed the world and what it did to alter the lives of everyone.

I'd like to actually see Tails' journey from having lost his confidence and mental fortitude to regaining it over an adequate period of time on his solo journey instead of it being barely implied and then dropped the instant he can fill the void with another version of Sonic. Classic Sonic, who shouldn't have been in the fucking game, pretty much wrecked a perfectly good opportunity to see Tails playable and off doing stuff by himself on a journey of self-discovery. Nothing too pretentious or deep but still meaningful at the very least. 

How does that affect the Chaotix, who are detectives for hire? What are their reactions to it? Considering how different they are from one another, I'd imagine they'd deal with it in different ways.

God, renegade Omega would have been awesome. Despite taking the world over, Eggman's constantly dealing with Omega just randomly stomping up to his factories and destroying the place with no filter. 

Dear lord, how would Amy deal with Sonic being gone for so long? What precautions would Knuckles take considering how his duty to protect his island is pretty much an offshoot of a bigger duty to protect the world?

What about Eggman's throne room? Can we see what the Eggman Empire looks like? We saw Eggmanland in Unleashed but that was just the theme park side of things. I know Eggman loves his theme parks but what about his prisons, his cafeterias with his badly made Eggmanland food, the Eggman merch he tries to sell/force people to buy.

The PA announcements from Colors could make a return. He'd have a huge speaker set up on every street corner so he could make demands of the common folk and a nice little thing that could earn you bonus points would see you destroying them (after you listened to whatever amusing thing he had to say).

GAAAAAH! 

Fuck Sonic Forces. My dream is dead.

Probably. They might try again in another 10 years but for now it's dead.

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5 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Sure thing!

Eggman being a human: Humans are another thing I wish wasn't canon to the series. But since people would riot in the streets if Eggman was made non-canon, we obviously have to make an exception for him, right? Except now he's out of place in an otherwise furry setting. That's why I wish he wasn't a human.

Eggman being an exception and/or contradiction to most things is kinda the point--he's the villain! 

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The Shadow talk reminded me of something. 

Even with the ridiculous circumstances I like a lot of things that happen to Shadow's arc. Him being a decendent of aliens that out and out resemble demons and having to fight a darker, edgier version of himself are just ridiculously over the top metaphors for Shadow's insecurity about his own morality and reputation. I like these ideas even though I understand why most people don't. Most of what happens in those games is nonsense but I'll defend Shadow's major character beats in each. 

But the Android stuff was a little silly to me mostly because it's half-assad. It comes off as someone at Sonic Team was insecure about overwriting SA2 but not insecure enough to just choose not to do it. Sticking with a Shadow that was essentially a different character would kill a lot of emotional attachment to that version but at least commiting to that would have been a unique storytelling choice. Going back and retconning it just makes one more arc in Heroes wasted time.

I just wish they committed to something back in SA2 instead of doing all the flip flopping, so my change is this: Rewrite SA2's ending. Leave the original heartbreak at Shadows sacrifice but have Sonic believing he survived with maybe Tails or Rouge expressing doubt.

A post credits scene that implies or outright shows Shadow survived his fall. It shows Shadow deciding to explore the planet Maria always wanted to see, bringing his arc full circle and showing his compassion for others has returned. 

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The whole "Two Worlds" setting and Classic and Modern Sonic being two different characters. Mania also should've never been tied to Forces, so that maybe Forces would've been slightly better without Classic being there. I guess that's it?

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Let's get the obvious stuff out of the way: I think the timeline should be one unified work, not divided into separate "classic" and "modern" dimensions. Further, the idea of two separate planets within the modern dimension - one for humans and the other for animals - contradicts earlier games and is wholly unnecessary. I want one timeline and one planet.

Get rid of the entire "Shadow has amnesia" subplot. Shadow worked all his issues out in SA2. Having him forget everything just so he can be sad and angry for a couple more games feels incredibly cheap. It's a contrived reason to squeeze more angst out of a character who had moved past that.

I'd definitely change the plot of Sonic Heroes, and have something that makes more sense than Eggman managing to package and deliver a working two-way radio to the Chaotix from the confines of a prison cell on Final Fortress. Maybe give Metal Sonic an actual stated motivation for his betrayal too, and have there be some payoff to that decision. Instead of just wiping Metal's memory, this could be a turning point in his and Eggman's relationship. Would Metal abandon Eggman to work as his own solo villain for a while? Would Eggman and Metal eventually make up and work out their differences? There are so many interesting places you could go from the plot of Heroes, but "lol Eggman wipes his memory in between games" is such a boring reversion to the status quo. It makes the plot of Heroes just another episodic entry in the series with no effect on anything.

Fix the Blaze/Silver/Eggman Nega fiasco. Apparently Nega was used in Rivals because originally the team wanted to create a new character altogether to be Eggman's descendant from the future, but Sonic Team rejected the idea and told them to use Nega instead. I'd change things to go back to their original plan and just use their new non-Nega descendant character, leaving Nega as Eggman's dimensional counterpart. As for Blaze and Silver, just split the difference; Silver's from the future, Blaze is from another dimension, with no overlap. They could meet through some other means and still develop a friendship, but them both being from the future doesn't work with Rush's story.

Maybe don't have Eggman be such an idiot in Forces. Dr. Ivo "I'll burn down my empire and build my empire on my own empire's ashes" Robotnik can do a lot better than rule a perpetually-burning dump covered in sand. We had one chance to see what a world under Eggman's control might look like, and it was totally squandered. It felt like just another episode of the series, not a grand or special story arc worthy of the writers' time or attention.

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20 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Eggman being an exception and/or contradiction to most things is kinda the point--he's the villain! 

He can still be a bad guy without being out of place. Plus if you make an exception for him it raises the question of where the fuck he came from, since in this scenario humans wouldn't be a thing.

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