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If you were in charge of the Sonic franchise

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I'm confused by and pretty tired of people telling me that these characters don't fit the series or add anything interesting. I don't even know what those words mean at all no matter how many times I hear them. Like, I'm fine with people not caring about them or not liking them to want to see them show up in the games, you don't have to waste your breath with really bizarre reasons that don't make any sense to justify that opinion

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10 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Why can't they be background characters in general?

Nunners, ya know, like the extra antrhos some fans want in the world. They wouldn't be playable, no one here would make them playable.

I'd like to see some dragons walking down  the sidewalk somewhere.

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1 minute ago, Sean said:

I'm pretty tired of people telling me that these characters don't fit the series or add anything interesting. I don't even know what those mean at all. 

Yeah, it's not much of a valid criticism.

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With enough brainstorming, you could probably make any of the characters from any of the cartoons and comics work well within the series. Not saying they should get to work on that but its a fun thought experiment.

Obviously, not everyone is gonna be onboard with every idea you have concerning HOW to do that but I prefer looking for a way if I can. I've got characters from some of the Sonic cartoons that I like as well after all.

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3 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Why can't they be background characters in general?

Nunners, ya know, like the extra antrhos some fans want in the world. They wouldn't be playable, no one here would make them playable.

Forces aside, when was the last time Sonic had backgound mobians?

I guess you could put them in next RoL or Unleased and it could work as a wink to old fans, but overall cyborg rabbit is a odd thing to be in a crowd of civilians, especially if they need to be saved.

3 hours ago, Sean said:

I'm confused by and pretty tired of people telling me that these characters don't fit the series or add anything interesting. I don't even know what those words mean at all no matter how many times I hear them. Like, I'm fine with people not caring about them or not liking them to want to see them show up in the games, you don't have to waste your breath with really bizarre reasons that don't make any sense to justify that opinion

Fine, sorry if I'm being blindly stubborn.

But do me a favor. Give me an example based on existing Sonic game, how do you see their potential role in the franchise? All I can imagine is putting them in Forces as talking person, cameo in background or Avatar skin. Maybe that will broaden my horizons.

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I'd take away the rule that females in the series must always be fully clothed and males must never be fully clothed. It's such an insanely arbitrary and weird rule and (especially in regards to males not being allowed to wear clothes) it limits design choices for characters.

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 I'd just make Classic and Modern different artstyles and not different universes/timelines/dimensions/whatever.

Marketing wise they can be seperated, but there's no real reason for lines in the sand.

As for a reboot? Honestly, we don't need it. We've had soft reboots since back in 06, and most Sonic stories are self-contained. It won't do anything meaningful anyway, it just seems like an excuse to pretend characters you never liked dont exist. 

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4 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Fine, sorry if I'm being blindly stubborn.

But do me a favor. Give me an example based on existing Sonic game, how do you see their potential role in the franchise? All I can imagine is putting them in Forces as talking person, cameo in background or Avatar skin. Maybe that will broaden my horizons.

...They'd be friends with Sonic who sometimes helps him fight Eggman? It's not hard for me to imagine how they'd fit into the games. Put them as they are minus the "fighting for freedom" bent, childhood connections, and romance. It'd be like introducing any other new character.

The lack of imagination in this topic surrounding these characters in particular is weird to me. Either people try to act like there's no logical reason to have them or they have to think of entirely new roles that don't make them remotely the same characters as before. I am literally in my corner going marge_thinks_potatoes_are_neat.jpg, why do people take issue with that

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1 hour ago, Sean said:

...They'd be friends with Sonic who sometimes helps him fight Eggman? It's not hard for me to imagine how they'd fit into the games. Put them as they are minus the "fighting for freedom" bent, childhood connections, and romance. It'd be like introducing any other new character.

The lack of imagination in this topic surrounding these characters in particular is weird to me. Either people try to act like there's no logical reason to have them or they have to think of entirely new roles that don't make them remotely the same characters as before. I am literally in my corner going marge_thinks_potatoes_are_neat.jpg, why do people take issue with that

When I suggested they be GUN soldiers I was just trying to think of a way to include them that didn't feel like it'd be just expanding the cast and giving him a ton more friends.  I don't think that came about from a "lack" of imagination. Probably too much of it.

That idea did get rid of the "fighting for freedom" bent but the response to that was "but they're freedom fighters, not cops" which tells me that you actually can't get rid of the fighting for freedom thing, correct? 

I'd want them to have some sort of occupation aside from just being another collection of characters that are friends with Sonic. Maybe you could even find a way to keep the whole Freedom Fighter angle somehow. It'd be hard to make that fit with how the world of the games is set up considering, outside of Forces, Eggman doesn't really have that stranglehold on the world. However, in the Archie reboot they managed to co-exist alongside GUN so its probably possible.

I just wanted to avoid saying "I don't want them in the games" so I figured if I suggested a new role based on what they felt like they were to me, it'd be more of an assist to the conversation. I didn't expect you guys to get so upset. Honestly.

And yeah, sorry, there did come a point where they felt like cops to me. 

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So, Freedom Fighters as a concept in the games?

Assuming we aren't really rebooting much of anything, you could just count them among the other general Mobians trying to clean up Eggman's leftovers post-Forces. I get that the game implies that much of the world was freed up, but.... look the man did conquer the world, so you can very easily write in some cities or provinces that they missed.

So, the Freedom Fighters would be a more 'specialized' team (or series of teams) doing their part to help "free" the rest of the planet that Sonic and the gang might have overlooked. No reason why one of those teams couldn't be based off of or be references to the SatAM/Archie Freedom Fighters. Bonus points if another team is based off of some Sonic the Comic characters, too. 

Maybe have a game or two where Sonic and Tails bump into those guys, helps 'em out, takes down an Eggman Empire recursion and the game ends with him declining an offer to join and continuing on their own path. 

Donezo!

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23 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

So, Freedom Fighters as a concept in the games?

Assuming we aren't really rebooting much of anything, you could just count them among the other general Mobians trying to clean up Eggman's leftovers post-Forces. I get that the game implies that much of the world was freed up, but.... look the man did conquer the world, so you can very easily write in some cities or provinces that they missed.

So, the Freedom Fighters would be a more 'specialized' team (or series of teams) doing their part to help "free" the rest of the planet that Sonic and the gang might have overlooked. No reason why one of those teams couldn't be based off of or be references to the SatAM/Archie Freedom Fighters. Bonus points if another team is based off of some Sonic the Comic characters, too. 

Maybe have a game or two where Sonic and Tails bump into those guys, helps 'em out, takes down an Eggman Empire recursion and the game ends with him declining an offer to join and continuing on their own path. 

Donezo!

I can only assume Forces isn't going to be considered or talked about by any of the characters going forward. If I were in charge, I'd make them all remember it and expand upon everything that happened, for one.

If I had the chance to reboot just Sonic Forces and it was somehow a vehicle for including the Freedom Fighters, how about making them the resistance movement? None of the main cast has to be apart of it, just like they weren't apart of GUN in Shadow the Hedgehog, but it'd be a driving force with a strong presence throughout the game in much of the same way. 

If they were staying after Forces was done, I'd probably feel the need to make sure Eggman kept somewhat of a decent stranglehold on the world. Maybe, instead of 99% of it conquered it was down to less than 50% or something.

 

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Honestly the only thing I really care about is getting rid of stupid, arbitrary subdivisions within the game series because it's needlessly restrictive and confusing. No "classic" dimension and "modern" dimension, no "human" world and "Sonic's" world. Just unify it into one cohesive piece, if games need to be retconned or altered to fit into that updated worldview it's worth it. Archie's rebooted era already laid the groundwork for this and created a huge playground for different settings and stories.

I care about this stuff because I would like for other characters to move around within the games--you can use the Hooligans as villains in a modern style game, you can create a classic style game that has Blaze or Shadow or whatever, even give them a different art style/design if you want to really play around with that kind of thing. Removing that allows spin-off media more freedom without feeling like they're being held back or need to create something to fill a void being left because a character isn't from the right part of the brand or whatever.

I'm also interested in including the Freedom Fighters, though I don't think they need to be an actual "freedom fighting" group considering the setting and can refocus on their key traits and roles as characters. A rough idea I've toyed with is you can replace Soleanna with the Kingdom of Acorn, and Elise with Sally (or if you want to preserve '06, just move Kingdom of Acorn altogether--Archie put it Sonic 2's on Westside Island), and make Antoine Sally's personal bodyguard. They could probably even have a dynamic like Dagger and Steiner from FFIX. Bunnie's backstory in the Archie reboot was practically written with the games' setting in mind, so I'd include Chuck (who's still Sonic's uncle) and Rotor as her engineers. Bunnie might be the strongest candidate for a playable character opposite Sonic for a game, though I like them all and think you could do fun things with any of them. Most of them could be fun additions and set off new stories and conflicts, as well as be people Sonic can talk to like he could talk people like Pickle and Amy in Unleashed. Nicole could be an AI assist developed by Chuck who follows Sonic around for a game and serves as communication.

If that opens the doors for other alt. media characters that'd be great too.

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1 hour ago, Zaysho said:

I'm also interested in including the Freedom Fighters, though I don't think they need to be an actual "freedom fighting" group considering the setting and can refocus on their key traits and roles as characters. A rough idea I've toyed with is you can replace Soleanna with the Kingdom of Acorn, and Elise with Sally (or if you want to preserve '06, just move Kingdom of Acorn altogether--Archie put it Sonic 2's on Westside Island), and make Antoine Sally's personal bodyguard. They could probably even have a dynamic like Dagger and Steiner from FFIX. Bunnie's backstory in the Archie reboot was practically written with the games' setting in mind, so I'd include Chuck (who's still Sonic's uncle) and Rotor as her engineers. Bunnie might be the strongest candidate for a playable character opposite Sonic for a game, though I like them all and think you could do fun things with any of them. Most of them could be fun additions and set off new stories and conflicts, as well as be people Sonic can talk to like he could talk people like Pickle and Amy in Unleashed. Nicole could be an AI assist developed by Chuck who follows Sonic around for a game and serves as communication.

If that opens the doors for other alt. media characters that'd be great too.

Yeah. That'd be fine too. It wouldn't be taking advantage of the Freedom Fighters angle. It'd be more leaning into the whole authoritative kingdom aspect about them that the comics did. 

I suppose the thing that's always tripped me up about the Freedom Fighters, going based strictly on the way I've experienced them, is that despite being for freedom and supposedly against authority... the whole "kingdom" angle kind of makes that hard to fully buy. When they started out from where I began reading the comics, they were definitely a resistance movement but as it went on they didn't feel like it anymore. They felt more like a group of soldiers, tethered to a nation with its own established government. 

The Acorn Kingdom had a council of people that sat in chairs and deliberated on specific ideas, they had a court system, there was a time when Sonic's drive to take out Naugus would have been considered a treasonous act, they captured villains and put them in prison, etc. Antoine especially held the position of a soldier the most out of all of them. Even that Sky Patrol thing felt more military-esque than the output of a rag-tag group of Freedom Fighters. I even recently read an issue for Free Comic Book day where Nicole had them doing military training simulations and stuff like that.

I can see this working fine for them as well. I'm open to basically anything for them so long as it doesn't have to mess with how Sonic and Tails do their thing. 

The idea of taking elements from all these cartoons and comics and finding ways to make them fit in the game world isn't something I'd personally do if I had the chance but it certainly sounds fun. I've even brainstormed weird ways of include Chris if you can believe it. 

 

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The thing I find weird is arguing that they don't have a place because they only operate by sneaking around and therefore they can't do anything in the story let alone be playable or w/e, because that's not...true? That hasn't been true since maybe SatAM and the worst parts of pre-reboot? And it was literally never true for Bunnie, who as I recall had to be arbitrarily left out of missions sometimes because otherwise you'd be like "why doesn't Bunnie just use her super robot arm to punch these bots".

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1 hour ago, Celestia said:

The thing I find weird is arguing that they don't have a place because they only operate by sneaking around and therefore they can't do anything in the story let alone be playable or w/e, because that's not...true? That hasn't been true since maybe SatAM and the worst parts of pre-reboot? And it was literally never true for Bunnie, who as I recall had to be arbitrarily left out of missions sometimes because otherwise you'd be like "why doesn't Bunnie just use her super robot arm to punch these bots".

Yeah, THAT definitely doesn't make any sense.

Besides, I'm all for sneaky gorilla tactics anyway. Sounds awesome. 

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If I was in charge, and say in a perfect universe where I had access to infinite money, infinite resources, projects could take as long as they want in development etc. Basically, a dream scenario where every game developed turns out to be fantastic, and every decision I make is wonderful, and Sega pays me enough money to build a mansion out of gold and a swimming pool filled with cocaine and prostitutes.

In terms of development, I would set up several teams. One team dedicated to modern 3D games, one team for 2D platformers, one team for racing games, one team for remakes, compliations and re-releases of every Sonic game ever made, and HD remasters, one team for quality micro-transaction free mobile games. Probably other teams as well.

2D games: I would want a steady stream of 2D games being made. I wouldn't want them to be quasi-remakes like Sonic Mania. They also wouldn't neccesarily be pixel games, they could use modern 3d sprites. Really, I just want Sonic to continue making 2D adventures, like when he was when we had handheld devices. I would let them continute to use the Classic aesthetic, but would get rid of the limitations of Classic and Modern. Basically, Mighty and Ray can show up in Modern, all the Modern characters can turn up in the Classic games.

3D games: I would use a multi-tier plan for this. First game would be a Sonic only Adventure style game. I would want a brand new engine, and in the process, would want the developers to spend months, or over a year, however long it takes, fine tuning Sonic's movement, what they did with Mario for Mario 64. Get Sonic's controls and abilities as perfect and precise as possible, then make a game which caters to those abilities. The plot would also serve as a soft reboot of the franchise, with a time gap from Sonic Forces, and (in my fan fiction mind), would see an event that would see Sonic, Dr Eggman, the Chaos Emeralds, several side characters, and all of Angel Island flung into a tear into an alternate dimension. Sonic would get back to Mobius at the beginning of the game, with 1-2 years having passed in his absence.

The game's plot would see a unique villian, while setting up an overarching plot of Sonic trying to get back Tails and other characters who were absorbed in the rift. Knuckles not having Angel Island and Sonic being absent would see him being turned into a superhero celebrity, filling in the void Sonic left. Amy would of moved on from Sonic, and while still having a crush on Sonic, would be far less forward. She would be a mayor of a town. Stuff like that for other characters, everyone has a new redesign. The time gap would allow for some minor characters to be reintroduced into the plot, like Ray and Mighty now being members of the Chaotix, I'd start introducing certain characters from other universes like Sticks, that fashion girl I've fogotten the name of, Mina cameos on billboards as a hot new pop artist.

The next game would be Sonic Adventure 3, although maybe not named that. Multiple characters, Tangle and Whisper introduced and both playable. Plot would see both Dr Eggman return and a brain washed Tails, which would see drama. Aside from Sonic, other characters would have ongoing plots established with them, Whisper's mysterious backstory teased, Tangle being a new hero, Knuckles quest to find Angel Island, Shadow is being stalked by an unknown party, another time traveler established that Silver does not know about, Blaze's conflict about protecting her realm and how connected she is with Sonic's realm, etc. I don't want to turn Sonic into the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but I do want sub-plots to run between games, keep things moving forward, have teases for future villians. Don't make it feel static and keep the status quo.

After Adventure 3, I'd effectively have 2 types of Sonic games. One type where it stars Sonic, and while it may have other playable characters, he is the focus, and other Adventure style Avenger games, where Sonic and a bunch of main characters must team up against a big monster threat, maybe with a unique sub title. Other characters would start receiving games, a Shadow game with Rouge and Omega playable, with some darker story telling. (No swearing or guns though, maybe more characters with big titties.) Silver and Blaze get their own game with Silver finally saving the future, but as a consequence, must stay in Sonic's timeline forever. Knuckles and the Chaotix team up in the search for Angel Island. Tails gets a sequel to Tails Adventure.

As for spin-offs, I'd make a Team Sonic Racing 2, just with a bigger budget and an emphasis on longetivity. Do alot what Crash Team Racing did but without the microtransactions. Then after that, revive Sonic Riders, keep the 2 racing franchises going, TSR focused on family friendly multiplayer, Sonic Riders more on cool and skill based racing. Keep Mario and Sonic going, just with alot more money and love put into it. I'd make a Sonic party game line, although not a sequel to Shuffle. I'd want a sequel to Sonic the Fighters by the guys who made Dragon Ball FighterZ. Mobile games that don't suck and aren't free 2 play microtransaction hellholes.

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It'd be so easy to just make Sally's kingdom just another place on Sonic's World. Their own organization with their own agenda. Sometimes Sonic heads into the kingdom. Sometimes the freedom fighters come out. You could even make a whole game about Eggman invading if you wanted to.

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Gonna cover the Freedom Fighters as game material since that still seems to be a talking point and lightly touch on GUN while I'm at it:

The Freedom Fighters themselves aren't really an issue(if anything, it's more what people associate regarding them that's the common detraction). Focusing on the New252 more than anything due to being a smorgasboard for this situation, they really can be (and pretty much were) just a group of people Sonic helped during his many battles against Eggman, inspiring them to take action and reclaim the Kingdom they lived in. They were likewise being distinguished as their own group that sometimes crosses paths with and receives aid from Sonic, Tails, and Amy when they happen to pass through or be available. Individually, the reboot simply brought most of them back to their comic/bible roots and therefore were "remodeled" to fit in with Sonic rather than the other way around. This is most notable in the case of Bunnie and Rotor, who mainly emphasized their disability/shame turned ability/convenience and gung-ho interest in fixing things. Sally and Nicole being the obvious exceptions for a variety of reasons and Antoine was a comfortable in-between. Thus, the Freedom Fighters are capable of fighting evil and saving the day, but generally do it through their own way and offbeat methods.In the context of the games themselves, that basically means they'd just be a thing that could pop up in a game and then not need to "stick around" because they are generally in one place, but the SEGA cast aren't. 

As for GUN themselves, the whole "Corrupt military with a conspiracy" thing was mostly a backstory thing and is otherwise resolved by the end of the Shadow's Game. Commander Tower himself was mainly characterized by the personal grudge he had against Shadow than any overt shadiness, which didn't apply to the rest of the government after SA2. And he got over that after getting finally an understanding of what was going on with him, with the strong implication that he continues moving on to ensure a better handle for things that his ironic position would suggest--something the Encyclopedia straight up ran with. If anything, the gray area at this point is limited to their employ of people like Rouge, Shadow, and loosely Omega as perhaps a lingering testament to their willingness to get the job done.

That said, I can still go along with Mike's previous mention of most diverse memberships and means as a way of emphasizing their revitalization.

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The only Freedom Fighter I could see myself adding in would be Bunnie, since I think her being a cyborg could be both unique gameplay and unique story hooks . Otherwise, not being a fan of them to start with, I just don't see the point. The FF as a group don't really fit the games, where Eggman's plans always get shut down long before any kind of organized resistance is necessary (Forces excepted obviously). Sally can't lead a group that doesn't exist and Sega obviously wouldn't allow her as Sonic's love interest, Rotor's just another tech guy, and...was there ever anything appealing about Antoine? There's a lot that'd have to be changed or added just to get them up to functional and the only reason to bother seems to be courting their existing fans rather than the characters bringing something interesting to the series.

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5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Tails has made tons of things, though?

He has, but like...

Tails' Adventure and Sonic Battle are 2 of the only games where he's made a significant amount of anything that isn't related to planes.

I'd keep his interest in building stuff strictly plane-centric, because he flies and it fits that the one thing he's really into is related to his main ability.

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14 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

was there ever anything appealing about Antoine?

I think there is some potential appeal for an egotistical braggart and coward, who's forced by circumstances to actually live up to his own hype and gradually become more legitimately heroic over time. Antoine feels pretty perfect for that kind of character arc.

Could be more of a smarmy rival to Sonic, billing himself as a better/braver/more handsome hero, with a bunch of tall but hard-to-verify tales of his adventures and battles won - loving the public adoration all that entails. Until Eggman or some other villain comes a-knocking and he now has to put his money where his mouth is. I think there's potential there for him to be a comical anti-hero of sorts in a Sega setting.

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3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

He has, but like...

Tails' Adventure and Sonic Battle are 2 of the only games where he's made a significant amount of anything that isn't related to planes.

I'd keep his interest in building stuff strictly plane-centric, because he flies and it fits that the one thing he's really into is related to his main ability.

A chaos emerald radar, a fake chaos emerald, extreme gear, a spaceship (twice, Fighters and ShtH), the Miles Electric (plus wisp translator), all the vehicles in Rush Adventure, a TV (out of paperclips), just off the top of my head. And I don't think the Cyclone should be discounted just because it can be a plane in addition to being a mech and a car. He's never been solely interested in planes and I don't see any reason to change that.

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