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If you were in charge of the Sonic franchise

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5 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

I don't care whose fault it is.

Then you’re admitting you’re being unreasonable on purpose.

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The Freedom Fighters would do nothing but remind me of what I lost, so I'm not allowing them in my ideal universe.

You think you’re the only one who lost your favorite characters before the Archie Reboot? Dude, you need a reality check.

You’re not the only one who misses the Archie of old. I’m never going to see the likes of Mina, Beauregard, or Lien-Da, or much of the Secret Freedom Fighters like Shard, and plenty of people will never see the likes of Finitivus or Scourge. But you don’t see those people throwing the Freedom Fighters under the bus as a scapegoat like it was their fault, because you know full and well that was the cause Penders, who you should be blaming for that.

If the Freedom Fighters reminds you of that lost, then frankly dude, you need a change of perspective.

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1 hour ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Then you’re admitting you’re being unreasonable on purpose.

You think you’re the only one who lost your favorite characters before the Archie Reboot? Dude, you need a reality check.

You’re not the only one who misses the Archie of old. I’m never going to see the likes of Mina, Beauregard, or Lien-Da, or much of the Secret Freedom Fighters like Shard, and plenty of people will never see the likes of Finitivus or Scourge. But you don’t see those people throwing the Freedom Fighters under the bus as a scapegoat like it was their fault, because you know full and well that was the cause Penders, who you should be blaming for that.

If the Freedom Fighters reminds you of that lost, then frankly dude, you need a change of perspective.

This person is talking about what they'd want out of their own, personal vision for Sonic and its universe. While the feelings he has when he thinks of the Freedom Fighters may seem illogical and unfair, I also don't think it's fair to tell someone that they need to change their perspective on something. There's not a whole lot anyone can do, least of all him, if seeing the Freedom Fighters is the trigger than reminds him of that stuff.

Perhaps if he was arguing that no one else should want them around in the games and trying to assert that as a more factual concept than a personal one, I'd understand responding like this. However, the thing that initiated this back and forth was just him saying he wouldn't put them in if he were in charge and giving his reason as to why. 

I'm not saying I agree with the reason he gave nor am I telling you not to engage with his statement at all but this response is almost coming off like you're trying to force the guy to change his mind about the way he feels about them. 

We're all talking about hypothetical situations. Whether he changes his perspective or not, nothing's going to change. 

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

This person is talking about what they'd want out of their own, personal vision for Sonic and its universe.

I know, and I have no problem with them keeping the Freedom Fighters out of it out of personal taste.

My whole focus was faulting them for the loss of other characters—that’s like blaming Shadow for Cream or Blaze not appearing in Boom.

That’s literally it.

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1 hour ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I know, and I have no problem with them keeping the Freedom Fighters out of it out of personal taste.

My whole focus was faulting them for the loss of other characters—that’s like blaming Shadow for Cream or Blaze not appearing in Boom.

Sure. I get that and that's fine.

It's just a little worrisome when I hear stuff like "you need to change your perspective". I've been told that before and the urge to shout the meanest things I could think of at the person who said it was hard to hold myself back from doing. I'm all for having a discussion but the instant someone tells me how I should feel about something, I get a little hot and bothered.

Illogical as that rational he has is, I do kind of understand it because I once had thoughts and feelings like that before too. I used to blame Blaze and Cream for the Chaotix and Omega not appearing in stuff. Now we live in a time where Cream barely shows up and Blaze appears about as much as everyone else. I can't help but think of my younger self as a bit of an idiot for thinking and feeling that way. The change happened when I naturally picked up a new outlook on things and realized I wasn't being fair. 

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36 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

Sure. I get that and that's fine.

It's just a little worrisome when I hear stuff like "you need to change your perspective". I've been told that before and the urge to shout the meanest things I could think of at the person who said it was hard to hold myself back from doing. I'm all for having a discussion but the instant someone tells me how I should feel about something, I get a little hot and bothered.

Illogical as that rational he has is, I do kind of understand it because I once had thoughts and feelings like that before too. I used to blame Blaze and Cream for the Chaotix and Omega not appearing in stuff. Now we live in a time where Cream barely shows up and Blaze appears about as much as everyone else. I can't help but think of my younger self as a bit of an idiot for thinking and feeling that way. The change happened when I naturally picked up a new outlook on things and realized I wasn't being fair. 

Perhaps I was a bit too blunt, but at the same time I’m just not someone that tolerates scapegoating. Like, at all.

And I can say that’s a quirk of mine that’s been around for as long as I’ve been on this boards before Sonic 06 where this mentality surged.

Either way, I’m not trying to force anyone to like the characters—if you’re gonna hate something, do it accurately at least. :lol: 

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34 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

...if you’re gonna hate something, do it accurately at least. :lol: 

I love this.

I can't even remember how many times I've thought this at people with faulty arguments.

It's so nice to see someone actually say it.

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If I was in charge I would make games deeper on lore, but on very basic level.

Like, imagine going through Ancient Ruin Zone. Been then, done that, right? But now imagine this place was clearly build by Babylonians or Dark Arms. Suddenly it's cool throwback and it costs no money. Heck, artist have easier job, they don't need to invent that much new designs.

I use to think that ideal solution would be if whole Lore was well planned years in advance and just build on in later games. But now I learn that there is much better answer. COW TOOLS

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On 10/28/2019 at 12:33 AM, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Then you’re admitting you’re being unreasonable on purpose.

You think you’re the only one who lost your favorite characters before the Archie Reboot? Dude, you need a reality check.

You’re not the only one who misses the Archie of old. I’m never going to see the likes of Mina, Beauregard, or Lien-Da, or much of the Secret Freedom Fighters like Shard, and plenty of people will never see the likes of Finitivus or Scourge. But you don’t see those people throwing the Freedom Fighters under the bus as a scapegoat like it was their fault, because you know full and well that was the cause Penders, who you should be blaming for that.

If the Freedom Fighters reminds you of that lost, then frankly dude, you need a change of perspective.

How about you stop telling me what to do? And I am NOT being unreasonable! I have a perfectly valid reason for keeping the Freedom Fighters out of my vision for Sonic and you know it!

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12 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

How about you stop telling me what to do?

Make more sense and I will.

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And I am NOT being unreasonable! I have a perfectly valid reason for keeping the Freedom Fighters out of my vision for Sonic and you know it!

Yes you are. And no, what you told me isn’t a valid reason. That’s scapegoating, plain and simple.

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On 11/2/2019 at 12:49 PM, MetalSkulkBane said:

If I was in charge I would make games deeper on lore, but on very basic level.

Like, imagine going through Ancient Ruin Zone. Been then, done that, right? But now imagine this place was clearly build by Babylonians or Dark Arms. Suddenly it's cool throwback and it costs no money. Heck, artist have easier job, they don't need to invent that much new designs.

I use to think that ideal solution would be if whole Lore was well planned years in advance and just build on in later games. But now I learn that there is much better answer. COW TOOLS

Yes, and there is a right way and a wrong way to do Cow Tools. Lost World is a great example of Cow Tools gone wrong, as NONE of the elements made sense, leaving the elements that could link to each other obscured by nonsensical insanity like floating donuts. I also feel like it's currently too late for mere cow tools after all the lore defilement, and we need more explicit lore, even if its as boring as Unleashed or Forces.

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If i was in charge of the Sonic franchise, well... that's an hard question.

I think that there are 2 ways i could be doing this, granted that by "being in charge" means having full control over the Sonic franchise.

If personal takes are allowed, here's what i would do:

Option 1: do not reboot, but split the series in two AUs.

the two world dilemma seems to be a controversial topic in this discussion, the way i would try to fix it would be to have the series being split into two different alternative universes, one in which humans and animals live together on planet earth and one in which there only exists animals living on a planet (probably Mobius), the reason of why is simply because i don't think that humans and Sonic characters work well together, with that i'm not trying to say that having humans and anthropomorphic animals near each other creates an uncanny valley type of feeling, but in my opinion i don't think that they mix well together.

 

However, this option cannot work because some character's backstories (like Shadow's one) would take place in Humans + Animal AU and it would be impossible to transfer it to the only Mobians AU, so i don't think this is a viable option.

 

Option 2: Reboot, and use past ideas in a better way

I'm starting to realize that there are a lot of good ideas and concepts that were unfortunately either used in a bad game or not executed properly, here's a few examples:

Sonic's Boom idea of having a world with only anthropomorphic animals characters and no humans was good, too bad it was used in a bad sub-franchise.

Sonic 2006's idea of having different playable characters with different abilities was good, too bad it was used in a bad game.

Sonic Adventure 2's idea of also having different playable character with different abilities was also good, too bad it was poorly executed.

 

so if i was allowed to pull a full wipe of the sonic canon, here's what i would do:

 

-Have a world with only Sonic characters: i have already explained this in option one, me not wanting humans is simply a personal take as i don't think they mix well with the sonic characters.

-Classic Sonic is just a younger version of Modern Sonic: that's it, that's the only explanation you would ever need to justify them, all classic characters are simply younger version of the current characters, nothing more nothing less.

-Have other characters besides sonic to be playable and actually matter: one infuriating aspect of Sonic Forces was seeing all other characters that were not Sonic, Classic Sonic and the OC being put in the corner doing absolutely nothing worth mentioning and put there just for sake of having them, instead, to make sure everyone gets their cake, i have three different game ideas:

 

1) A game in which only the 4 runners are playable (Sonic, Shadow, Blaze and Silver)

2) A game in which other characters are playable too, but all levels are running stages (kinda like how Sonic 3 and Sonic mania did it, they are all running stages but depending on the characters you are playing as it's constructed depending on the ability of said character, whether it's speed, fly, or strength)

3) a spiritual successor to Sonic Heroes with a fifth added team that includes Silver, Blaze and...uhm....Marine, i guess ?

Having different playable characters actually gives them purpose in the story instead of being delegated in the background, and could also help to give them not only more screen time, but also have development.

-Make spin-offs that are not about running: Sonic doesn't have to be all about speed, there's many different video game genres that Sonic could benefit from if properly used:

1) A jrpg game: despite the dark brotherhood having good intentions it failed in it's purpose if being the first good JRPG of the sonic franchise, i believe that another jrpg with Sonic could be an interesting twist on the franchise and feel as if there's plenty of potential for it.

also, not to mention that since one of the main focuses of jrpgs is story and being long games, that is an extra reason to make another jrpg, since sonic desperately needs some deeper stories.

2) An action adventure game: coming second on the list of good game ideas but poor execution Ryse of Lyric was also an interesting project, i liked the focus on exploration and fighting, and i wouldn't mind a similar game but with modern characters.

Creating games in which the focus is not running helps to solve a lot of problems related to sonic, instead of having to create a new physics engine from scratch and spending years to make sure that sonic's movements are perfect and enjoyable we could instead create games that not require this type of preparation.

 

This was all i had to say, this is how i would treat the Sonic Franchise if i had full power over it, it's not perfect sure, but i think is still better than what SEGA has been doing so far.

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40 minutes ago, Drisaac said:

Having different playable characters actually gives them purpose in the story

That's...not really how it works. A character can be playable and have basically no bearing on the story; a character can be non-playable and be absolutely vital.

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12 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

That's...not really how it works. A character can be playable and have basically no bearing on the story; a character can be non-playable and be absolutely vital.

Yeah i'm sorry i should have worded that differently.

I meant to say that a character being playable gives them more purpose than just standing there for exposure, that's what i meant to say.

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* Release a “Hyrule Historia” for the series. One thing would be a method to rectify earlier games with new ones. As an absolute last resort, there would be a Dreamcast split from the Modern era, but only as a last resort. 

* Any future writers must watch the plot of every single Sonic game as a qualifier for them to write. 

* Pull a “George Lucas” on some games if they absolutely must be kept, Forces would have had Rouge, Erazor, and Mephiles instead of Zavok, for example. This is a patch to the original. 

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3 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Erazor would be the only one fought if we didn’t have extra fights. 

I still don't quite get it, dude.

You mean Erazor in place of Zavok, no? Whats up with Rouge and Mephiles?

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3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I still don't quite get it, dude.

You mean Erazor in place of Zavok, no? Whats up with Rouge and Mephiles?

Erazor would indeed replace Zavok. For the other two? They would just appear in the army with Chaos and Shadow. Unless we perhaps made them all regular enemies in the final stage? 

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1 minute ago, Miragnarok said:

Erazor would indeed replace Zavok. For the other two? They would just appear in the army with Chaos and Shadow. Unless we perhaps made them all regular enemies in the final stage? 

...Unuh(Idk).

Mephiles was at the big battle initially, so I guess that checks out.

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With all the talk about how Sega should move forward and what's good for Sonic, here's two questions:

1. Does SonicTeam make healthy use of playtesters when solidifying the next games style?

2. What do the kids like and want from these games?

 

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Make some sections of the alternate continuities canon (i.e. Sally and Mina from the Archie comics as part of Team Rose instead of Big and Cream, OVA characters.)

Go back to the Classic designs period. No more Modern. Give Classic designs to those who didn't have them (CLASSIC SHADOW!!)

Still make 3D games, but as good as Sonic X-treme.

Finish Sonic X-treme but with better graphics. Have Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Tiara, and Amy as playable characters.

Have Christian Whitehead in charge of the 2D games, occasionally doing some work on the 3D games.

Have a Sonic animated series with Tom Holland as Sonic, Finn Wolfhard as Tails, Donald Glover as Knuckles, Daveigh Chase as Amy, Hugh Jackman as Shadow, and Alicia Silverstone as Sally. It would air on Nickelodeon, just like fellow 90s anthropomorphic animal icon Rocko's Modern Life.

Do I win?

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