Jump to content
lulzers

What moral limits does Sonic have?

Recommended Posts

Anyone familiar with Sonic would know that he LOVES to beat bad guys. His favorite part being able to rub it in their faces. However, I get the feeling that like famous superheroes like Batman and Superman, he has lines that he will not cross. Whether these actions are considered by him to be,

  • Excessive
  • Unnecessarily cruel
  • Or downright heinous

What do you think? What do you think are things that Sonic refuses to even do to even his worst enemies? Do his friends share his morals? And how would Sonic and his friends react to other heroes performing said acts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The beginning of Sa2 proves that he would knock out or kill armed forces.

YELZd5J.png

LF9fkfi.png

If it weren't for Eggman's cartoonishly high durability he would have died a long time ago with the amount of times he's caught in fatal explosions and wreckage, especially that rock he threw at Eggman in CD's bad ending.

Tails in Tails' Adventure flat out blows up Great Battle Kukku so he's definitely not above murder.

We also literally hear about Espio's murder fantasies in Heroes constantly so there's that.

X7kM1e9.png

HFxa06v.png

XaDBDeg.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sonic is something of an Antihero, albeit a relatively minute one most of the time. 

He has relatively little issue going against authority when it matters since freedom is very important to him and he generally makes an attempt to stop the bigger villains once and for all, with Eggman being lucky enough to either skirt away through some circumstance or simply survive those attempts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sonic is against killing Eggman, and even against killing the comparably crazier Eggman Nega. (Source: Sonic Rush)

CeVNuJH.png

Sonic describes wanting to destroy Nega as "pretty harsh," which to me shows that it's beyond what he himself would be willing to do.

Sonic has (apparently) killed before, but it's always been completely monstrous beasts like the Biolizard or the Black Arms and the like. Or Badniks if we consider them sapient and "alive," I guess, which varies depending on the game.

But with Eggman or other human villains, he's never displayed an urge to kill or personally harm them.There's not one time when he's let on that he intends to take their lives and some occasions - such as the Rush example above - where he expresses disapproval at others trying to do the same.

So yeah, as far as the games go, I don't think there's any support for Sonic being willing to kill Eggman; just the opposite.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sonic has killed, aside from monstrous and non-sapient beasts;

 

* Erazor Djinn (who was an incredibly cruel and cantankerous individual who himself committed murder)

* Zavok (though not wholly intentionally, he presumably later regenerated, if the death scene is even canon anymore)

* Solaris (Together with Shadow)

* The Black Knight

He’s also left Captain Whisker for dead. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

* Erazor Djinn (who was an incredibly cruel and cantankerous individual who himself committed murder)

Erazor just got an eternal life sentence, being consigned to his lamp forever. Yeah, Sonic dropped his lamp into the Evil Foundry, but it's not clear if that destroyed the lamp or its unwilling occupant.

Zavok, yeah, you got me.

I guess Eggman's not on the same level in Sonic's mind because he only wants to conquer the world rather than destroy it as Zavok did? Though I mean, Nega tried to outright destroy the world in later appearances too, but I guess Sonic wouldn't have known that in the first Rush game, and he might've just assumed he was on a comparable threat level to normal Eggman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that Sonic doesn't mind "being the bad guy" and blatantly ignoring the law when an injustice is done onto him. I also like that Tails isn't afraid to go along with it in SA2. They should play with that more often if they ever bring law enforcement back into the equation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue is that Sonic is presented in wildly different ways across the games. Sonic games also usually have awful stories, so his characterisation is rarely good never mind consistent.

Sonic Lost World is most explicit, as Sonic presumably kills all the Deadly Six. It's hard to interpret the Deadly Six disappearing into a poof of smoke or drowning in lava any other way, especially as those events mark their exit from the narrative. Yet Zavok keeps coming back and it's never addressed. The rest of the Deadly Six are probably regenerated now too.

But most of the time, Sonic's presented as someone who would never hurt anyone, not even Eggman, because he's the 'good guy' for kids.

And it's not just Sonic who's character keeps changing in this way. Silver is a potential killer in Sonic 2006, yet that side of his character has been dropped since. Shadow is AWOL in Shadow the Hedgehog and its unclear if he's ever hurt anyone in Adventure 2, but he's played more as a anti hero in recent games and he never threatens to kill anyone. Sometimes they can't even keep tones consistent in a single game, look at Forces' handling of Eggman as a torturer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

I like that Sonic doesn't mind "being the bad guy" and blatantly ignoring the law when an injustice is done onto him. 

Sonic knows how corrupt the force can me. He's an ex-cop, after all.

WakuSonicOpening.png

Though yeah - on the topic of this thread - even when Sonic did go against the cops and GUN, he still seemed to only wreck their stuff or knock them out. I don't think Sonic has a human body count at all.

Considering in Shadow the Hedgehog, GUN was all too willing to work alongside Sonic - who was a fugitive just a few games earlier - I don't think he'd have done anything too extreme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Sonic knows how corrupt the force can me. He's an ex-cop, after all.

WakuSonicOpening.png

Though yeah - on the topic of this thread - even when Sonic did go against the cops and GUN, he still seemed to only wreck their stuff or knock them out. I don't think Sonic has a human body count at all.

Considering in Shadow the Hedgehog, GUN was all too willing to work alongside Sonic - who was a fugitive just a few games earlier - I don't think he'd have done anything too extreme.

Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would bring up Sonic seriously murdering anyone.

He's killed a giant lizard on life-support and in another time-line he encouraged a princess to blow out a poor, defenseless flame.

Can't think of anything else though. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Sometimes they can't even keep tones consistent in a single game, look at Forces' handling of Eggman as a torturer.

While a valid complaint, this specific example was a dub-only change.

"Eggman tortured Sonic for months" wasn't in the Japanese script. It was one of several ways the English localization tried to punch up the dialogue and make things more extreme in our version.

Which makes sense; When Sonic breaks out, he's just his same old smarmy joke-cracking self, and any sign or mention of him being "tortured" is never brought up again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can hardly say Sonic killed the D6 when we've been shown they're still alive. It's no different from Mario dumping Bowser in lava; that would kill an ordinary person, sure, but we're not dealing with an ordinary person.

Sonic's pretty much a "live and let live" kind of guy; he usually only goes as far as is necessary to stop someone from fucking up other people's lives. If it's some mindless or inherently-evil monster he might have to take it down permanently but if it's any kind of "person" they'll get a chance to repent and stop being a dick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Shadow is AWOL in Shadow the Hedgehog and its unclear if he's ever hurt anyone in Adventure 2, but he's played more as a anti hero in recent games and he never threatens to kill anyone. 

He murdered the Jackal Squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

Do we count the time he gleefully killed King Arthur and did a victory pose after?

 

...true, Arthur ended up being nothing more than an illusion, but Sonic didn't know it at the time.

Swords are like butter knives in fiction. I could see Sonic karting Arthur off to prison in the next scene if he didn't disappear. Hell, Merlina survived being impaled by Excalibur. Sonic's gotta know this shit won't kill them. 

... I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

I could see Sonic karting Arthur off to prison in the next scene if he didn't disappear.

Honestly, this is the big question.

Of course Sonic doesn't kill people. But he also never makes any attempts to capture or "arrest" any of his villains either. He chased after Eggman in the classic games, yeah, but in a lot of the later titles he'd just casually let a beaten Eggman run off to scheme again instead of trying to bring him in to whatever authorities might have the power to put Eggman in jail.

In some spinoff media, like Sonic X, Sonic actually does manage to get Eggman arrested in a fairly slapsticky manner. Eggman manages to launch a scheme from prison and escapes, so the status quo isn't too upset, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

You can hardly say Sonic killed the D6 when we've been shown they're still alive. It's no different from Mario dumping Bowser in lava; that would kill an ordinary person, sure, but we're not dealing with an ordinary person.

Sonic's pretty much a "live and let live" kind of guy; he usually only goes as far as is necessary to stop someone from fucking up other people's lives. If it's some mindless or inherently-evil monster he might have to take it down permanently but if it's any kind of "person" they'll get a chance to repent and stop being a dick.

I think that's the result of bad writing and lack of consistency in sequels. 

I know it sounds melodramatic to say he kills the D6, but I don't know how else we are supposed to interpret it. When you fight the D6 in their first fights and win, they always run away and return. The fact they escape shows that no harm befalls them. However, when they poof into smoke or fall into lava, they are gone for good and never return. What else can it convey but that he kills them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Honestly, this is the big question.

Of course Sonic doesn't kill people. But he also never makes any attempts to capture or "arrest" any of his villains either. He chased after Eggman in the classic games, yeah, but in a lot of the later titles he'd just casually let a beaten Eggman run off to scheme again instead of trying to bring him in to whatever authorities might have the power to put Eggman in jail.

In some spinoff media, like Sonic X, Sonic actually does manage to get Eggman arrested in a fairly slapsticky manner. Eggman manages to launch a scheme from prison and escapes, so the status quo isn't too upset, of course.

Oh no, that was a joke. I wasn't suggesting Sonic would actually arrest the guy.

I actually really like the fact that Sonic doesn't bother with detaining the villains he beats. Was one of the reasons the Archie comics originally threw me off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

Oh no, that was a joke. I wasn't suggesting Sonic would actually arrest the guy.

I actually really like the fact that Sonic doesn't bother with detaining the villains he beats. Was one of the reasons the Archie comics originally threw me off.

Fair, but he did literally imprison Erazor Djinn.

I get what you mean though. It feels more in line with who Sonic is to just keep slapping his enemies down when they try anything instead of bothering to get the law involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Razule said:

He murdered the Jackal Squad.

He wiped out the squad, it's unclear what that means. Although it's possible to interpret that as killing, I'd put that down to the incredibly melodramatic and laughably dark tone of Forces. It's not representative of the modern games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

Swords are like butter knives in fiction. I could see Sonic karting Arthur off to prison in the next scene if he didn't disappear. Hell, Merlina survived being impaled by Excalibur. Sonic's gotta know this shit won't kill them. 

... I think.

Merlina was in possession of the immorality scabbard when they fought so it didn't matter how many times he impaled her, she was never in any danger of death. 

 

Sonic quite literally depowered that same scabbard and then struck a death blow to King Arthur. That was done with an intent to kill. Merlina even forshadowed  it by referring to what he was doing as being a slayer of Kings. That's not lingwo you throw around for someone just looking to deliver a slap on the wrist. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Merlina was in possession of the immorality scabbard when they fought so it didn't matter how many times he impaled her, she was never in any danger of death. 

 

Sonic quite literally depowered that same scabbard and then struck a death blow to King Arthur. That was done with an intent to kill. Merlina even forshadowed  it by referring to what he was doing as being a slayer of Kings. That's not lingwo you throw around for someone just looking to deliver a slap on the wrist. 

You're correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I think that's the result of bad writing and lack of consistency in sequels. 

I know it sounds melodramatic to say he kills the D6, but I don't know how else we are supposed to interpret it. When you fight the D6 in their first fights and win, they always run away and return. The fact they escape shows that no harm befalls them. However, when they poof into smoke or fall into lava, they are gone for good and never return. What else can it convey but that he kills them?

They're weird magical demon monsters, they can poof away when beaten without that being death. And they're not "gone for good", they've very clearly come back in TSR and IDW Sonic (which, even though it's separate from the games, has been aligned so closely with them that I doubt Sega would let them be used if they were meant to be dead). Even Lost World doesn't assume they're dead, at the end Eggman says he'll get a new conch and reenslave them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Sonic is against killing Eggman, and even against killing the comparably crazier Eggman Nega. (Source: Sonic Rush)

CeVNuJH.png

Sonic describes wanting to destroy Nega as "pretty harsh," which to me shows that it's beyond what he himself would be willing to do.

Sonic has (apparently) killed before, but it's always been completely monstrous beasts like the Biolizard or the Black Arms and the like. Or Badniks if we consider them sapient and "alive," I guess, which varies depending on the game.

But with Eggman or other human villains, he's never displayed an urge to kill or personally harm them.There's not one time when he's let on that he intends to take their lives and some occasions - such as the Rush example above - where he expresses disapproval at others trying to do the same.

So yeah, as far as the games go, I don't think there's any support for Sonic being willing to kill Eggman; just the opposite.

 

I always took that as him playfully telling her to chill.

Still, he does try to help Blaze keep herself together. Especially since Nega actually enjoys seeing her like that. 

And it is true that Sonic is less about killing his enemies and more about making sure they can't bother anyone else any time soon. Like in the Eggman examples, he'll attack him and let his Egg mobile go into a smoky crash, but doesn't move in the job. If it finally takes him out, fine he deserves it;  if not, that's good too since he gets to pick his butt again. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.