What If Sonic Died?

[Silvereyes]

So I've been wandering. In Sonic Forces, probably one of the most criticised parts about that game's plot is that the set-up to Dr Eggman taking over 99.9% of the world is that Sonic is captured by him, and that Sonic's allies essentially fail at stopping Dr Eggman's world domination. That, and that the resistance is only able to begin making a comeback once Sonic, and another Sonic, with some help from the Avatar, save the day. I feel like it is safe to say that on this forum, alot of people don't like it, for how it makes all of Sonic's allies look extremely ineffectual.

So, in the sortof spirit of Sonic Forces, here is my "what if?" question: what if Sonic died?

I'm going to leave this fairly open ended, but at the very least, lets say Sonic is killed due to something non-ambiguous. Perhaps a Badnik, perhaps one of Dr Eggman's machines, perhaps he ran into a wall etc. Whatever happened, there is a body, and both Dr Eggman, Sonic's allies, and everyone inbetween knows that he is dead, and that there is no wiggle room to bring him back. What would happen?

How would Dr Eggman react? Would he be happy that his nemesis is dead, or would he feel empty? Would he just continue on like he normally would with his quest for world domination. What about Sonic's friends. Would we see them band together in his absence, or without that common element, would it be impossible for them to team up? Would we see someone try and rise up and take's Sonic's place as being the hero of the world?

Or is Sonic Forces right, if Sonic was out of the picture, Dr Eggman would in fact be unstoppable. Is Sonic the only thing capable of saving the world time and again?

[thumbs13]

Elise senses his presence in the wind and they use the Chaos Emeralds to revive him.

[Dr. Mechano]

30 minutes ago, Silvereyes said:

Perhaps a Badnik

A part of me finds this idea hilarious for a "what if" scenario, especially since there are plenty of timelines where exactly this happens; every time a player screws up and crashes headlong into a robot. I love the idea of exploring one of those timelines, where Sonic's taken out not by Eggman himself, not by some ancient evil monster or alien, not in any sort of climactic battle - but just tripping and getting whacked by a Crabmeat or something.

I could see Eggman giving that robot a medal. Just imagining this ridiculously over-the-top ceremony where Eggman celebrates "the Badnik who killed Sonic." Silver Sonic, Mecha Sonic, and especially Metal Sonic just standing there in absolute disbelief as the hedgehog they were specifically designed to take down got punked out by a lowly grunt bot. The Crabmeat itself isn't even sure how they did it; they probably just got lucky.

Nevertheless, Eggman promotes this Crabmeat to second-in-command of the Eggman Empire. Replaces their Flicky with a rarer, more expensive animal like a palm cockatoo. Gives them a nice new shiny, golden casing. And ultimately, puts them in charge of leading the invasion of the world in Sonic's absence.

Oh yeah, and I'm sure Sonic's friends would be really sad but still hold it together enough to fight Eggman off. Especially since Eggman's trusting an under-qualified robot who just got lucky to lead his forces, which won't end well for him.

[Diogenes]

SA2 gave us a pretty good look at how Eggman would react. He's got a measure of respect for Sonic, he might take a moment to show it, but he's still gonna get back to executing his evil plans pretty quick.

Everyone else...well, I'd say Forces is reasonably close. Some characters (Amy in particular, see again SA2) would be more broken up if he was unambiguously dead rather than missing and possibly dead, but they'd still pull together and do what they could. What shape that would take and how successful they'd be depends on what exactly Eggman's up to; I don't believe the point of Forces was ever that, without Sonic, everyone else is incompetent, but that they were fighting a losing war against a seemingly untouchable opponent but with the help of Sonic, other Sonic, and You they were able to turn the tide back in their favor. If Eggman managed to pull some similarly overpowered ace out of his sleeve things could end up like Forces, otherwise there's enough superpowered animals around to beat him back, if maybe not as efficiently.

[Ivo-goji]

It really depends on when he dies.

Like if he died in the early days, before most of his friends had experience fighting, Knuckles was still secluded on Angel Island, Shadow was still in suspended animation, etc., there probably wouldn't be anyone who could stop Eggman.

[Shadowlax]

Despite the clusterfuck that was forcing making everyone look useless, even sonic himself to varying degrees.

Eh nothing? I mean people would be sad about it , but there's more than enough people to punch eggman in the face with enough efficiency. Actually, shit. Sonic might have been the only thing keeping eggman alive at this point. Shadow would just , kill em.

Not saying sonic's life is meaningless, but I feel like it would be sad for some characters, but everyone would kinda move on and that's it. It would most likely be what he would want, he wouldn't people dwelling on his death.  If sonic dying means the end of everything, those characters were pointless from the start. Goddamn forces story is traaaaaash

[MetalSkulkBane]

I did wrote a fic that kiiinda touches on that subject.

But long story short, like we all expect. People get sad and then try to move on.

I imagine Shadow would try to fill for him. If Eggman killed Sonic then he might kill him too, but who knows for sure.

Amy and Tails would obviously suffer the most. In the end I think Tails would get his act together and also try to take Sonic place, but Amy's harder. Sonic was kinda point of her existance. So either deeeep depression or serious character development and finding new way of life.

Eggman is so varied, from Archie sadist, to Boom goofball, but I think he would throw giant parade with those Sonic Dolls 'dying' in many humorous ways and continue with world conquering.

But you know who's the harderst to imagine? Metal Sonic. Amy is at least a person, not a narrow minded AI. If he has as much free will as in Heroes, I think he would go screwloose.

[Shadowlax]

51 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I did wrote a fic that kiiinda touches on that subject.

But long story short, like we all expect. People get sad and then try to move on.

I imagine Shadow would try to fill for him. If Eggman killed Sonic then he might kill him too, but who knows for sure.

Amy and Tails would obviously suffer the most. In the end I think Tails would get his act together and also try to take Sonic place, but Amy's harder. Sonic was kinda point of her existance. So either deeeep depression or serious character development and finding new way of life.

Eggman is so varied, from Archie sadist, to Boom goofball, but I think he would throw giant parade with those Sonic Dolls 'dying' in many humorous ways and continue with world conquering.

But you know who's the harderst to imagine? Metal Sonic. Amy is at least a person, not a narrow minded AI. If he has as much free will as in Heroes, I think he would go screwloose.

That metal sonic thing is a really good idea, especially if hes the one who does the murder.

I dont think Sonics death would spur shadow to murder eggman. I think murdering eggman is kind of on his to do list. But it would add to the reasons as to why he would do it. "If I dont stop him there will be no heroes left."  I feel like blaze is the same way, while she might react a bit more angrily than shadow, I feel like her take away is " I have to do better. The world(s) cant stand to loose anymore heroes.

Back to metal sonic, holyshit that's a good idea. I feel as though he should be trying to fight others trying to find meaning and purpose. And they cant offer him any.

Shadows particularly grim about it suggesting he's weak for seeking to take life without considering the consequences. I feel as though blaze would respond similarly. But ironically enough maybe shadow takes pity on him because he know how it feels to grow out of the roll of being someone's tool of destruction. Ironically more willing to let people live and find their own way after sonic dies.

Amy and tails are more violent, I feel. Amy specifically so, sonic inspires a lot of what she did and metal took that away. Maybe she rosier the rascal's up afterward. Not like full on insane but she's certainly a different person.

Tails is pretty angry but I feel , but I feel would just kind of ask why metal sonic did it. And metal sonic wouldn't really have an answer. And it would just be sad.

Knuckles on same wave length as blaze and shadow. However he frames that mural, he was his friend afterall.

Everyone else is sad but moves on. I feel like their encounters with metal, even if metal wants help. They see him as more potential lethal than before

 

Thanks for the brain food man

[The Famous Sonic]

If Sonic really does die Tails won't move on and he won't be able to do things on his own anymore. He'll just regress back to how he was before he met Sonic. And when Eggmans robots or some other villain shows up, all Tails will do is just stand there and cower in fear which will get him captured. 

[Dr. Mechano]

2 hours ago, The Famous Sonic said:

He'll just regress back to how he was before he met Sonic. And when Eggmans robots or some other villain shows up, all Tails will do is just stand there and cower in fear which will get him captured.

The game Tails Adventure is set before Tails met Sonic, and the boy toppled the Great Battle Kukku empire all by himself (and the help of his little robot buddy, of course).

Later, in Sonic Adventure 2, when Tails thought Sonic was dead after Eggman launched him into space, did he freeze up or cower in fear? No, he fought against Eggman with all his might, and - if you were playing the Hero story - knocked him right out of his Egg Walker in righteous anger.

I know Tails has grown a lot since meeting Sonic, and I'm certain Sonic's death would leave Tails in a pretty bad place. I don't dispute that at all. But I have to disagree with Forces' take that Tails would become a total mess beyond recovery if Sonic ever died.

[expansivelovestories]

As part of a future game either classic or modern, it would be intriguing if instead of a traditional Game Over, there would be some type of temporary afterlife Zone, which with either style of graphics could be quite surreal and wonderfully dynamic; and when, perhaps, gathering 3 1-UPs from within a challenging enough (but scaled somehow) environment, the main game could be reaccessed at the zone one exited.  I would hope that Continues would still be available, and, maybe they could even be found by passing through some of the more difficult areas in this realm/dimension.

I think it could be a gift rather than a punishment even, to perhaps have some rare items that can only be accessed there and brought back into the main game, some that would differ per character; unique music and physics too! 

[MetalSkulkBane]

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

That metal sonic thing is a really good idea, especially if hes the one who does the murder.

I dont think Sonics death would spur shadow to murder eggman. I think murdering eggman is kind of on his to do list. But it would add to the reasons as to why he would do it. "If I dont stop him there will be no heroes left."  I feel like blaze is the same way, while she might react a bit more angrily than shadow, I feel like her take away is " I have to do better. The world(s) cant stand to loose anymore heroes.

Back to metal sonic, holyshit that's a good idea. I feel as though he should be trying to fight others trying to find meaning and purpose. And they cant offer him any.

(...)

Thanks for the brain food man

Not to be pushy, but again, my story explores exatcly those ideas.

It also tackles why I think Shadow didn't killed Eggman yet.

2 hours ago, Dr. Mechano said:

The game Tails Adventure is set before Tails met Sonic, and the boy toppled the Great Battle Kukku empire all by himself (and the help of his little robot buddy, of course).

Is it weird that of all stupid things in Sonic continuity, placement of Tails Adventure is one that I hate most?

Seriously, I feel like Tails doing all of that before meeting Sonic is missing the point by a continent and unlike most bad moments, can't be justified in anyway.

 

[Shadowlax]

33 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Not to be pushy, but again, my story explores exatcly those ideas.

It also tackles why I think Shadow didn't killed Eggman yet.

Is it weird that of all stupid things in Sonic continuity, placement of Tails Adventure is one that I hate most?

Seriously, I feel like Tails doing all of that before meeting Sonic is missing the point by a continent and unlike most bad moments, can't be justified in anyway.

 

Fine fine I'll listen to your mixtape  read your fanfiction

[honey-dew]

I feel like the fact that nobody would be able to save the world without Sonic's aid is just there for plot point, as Sonic is the main character of his series.

Funnily enough, reminiscing on this topic bought me back to Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic 06 and Sonic X. In Sonic Adventure 2, during the battle on the Ark, when Sonic *supposedly* dies Tails is willing to avenge him and fight against Eggman, while Eggman himself seem rather happy that he finally destroyed his nemesis once in for all. However,  then again, the SA2 personas of Tails and (especially) Eggman are different than what they are now.

In Sonic X, when everyone barring Sonic, returns back to their home world, Eggman was actually pretty disappointed that Sonic was still on earth. And while he was not dead, I feel like in proper canon, Eggman would be actually pretty disheartened to hear that his main rival was gone forever. It would be pretty boring for him, assuming a new hero doesn't rise up to take the challenge.

In 2006, everyone was pretty bummed that Sonic was gone, and obviously, they would be.

So anyways, with my own speculation, I feel like Eggman would definitely be bored for one, as Sonic is his main enemy. Two, just like in forces, Sonic's friends would obviously fight Eggman in his stead. (Amy and Tails would be extremely depressed, however).

If it were up to my head canon, I would love a game where Sonic was "dead" and in which Tails plotted to avenge his friend. It wouldn't be edgy, just a bit dark. I would absolutely love to play some sort of spinoff like that. I recall reading something years ago with a similar atmosphere, I think it was either a fanfiction or a sprite comic and the idea just stood out to me.

[Dr. Detective]

It'd probably play out similarly to how Into the Spider-Verse did only, instead of another Sonic (hopefully) it'd be Tails.

He got out of having to face the consequences of a possible Sonic death in SA2 but it'd officially be time to take the helm here.

Eggman, honestly, feels like he goes back and forth on what he wants to do with Sonic. I feel like he might go further into the realm of insanity. Some days he might be happy that Sonic is dead and others he might decide to ruthlessly and vigorously stir up more trouble to push someone into challenging him in a similar way Sonic did. Not just by trying to beat him (because its not just Sonic who can do that) but trying to do so with the same game-like, fun mentality. 

I kind of also feel like if Eggman did take over the world after Sonic's death, he'd be the first one to make a grave for Sonic and would probably visit it often... mostly to gloat but to also show a little respect.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

A lot of mourning—sadness, anger, uncertainty. But one thing I can say is that those close to him wouldn’t roll over or be a pushover about it. They’d find ways to cope, which may be productive or destructive, but given the kind of person Sonic is, one who has made major impacts on many, the real question would be this: how would they honor him?

Forces really bumbles hard with the concept of Sonic being essential to protect the world, mainly because previous titles have shown that, in many cases, he’s not the only factor keeping the world safe.

I find it hard to believe the world would fall so quickly without him when characters like Shadow and Knuckles hit as fast and hard as he does. Shadow had a whole game where the entire world would’ve been conquered and devoured by an alien threat had he not been around to stop, and ironically enough that was a fight Sonic could barely handle—and even then, it also showed that Shadow needed help too.

At the same time, I also find it hard to believe Tails would cower and not take his mantle when he did the exact opposite of that in SA2 when they thought he was killed by Eggman.

Why wouldn’t Tails stand up and honor the friend and brother figure he’s been around for so long? Why would the world fall under the presence of Shadow, who is basically Sonic with a more ruthless and pragmatic mind on top of Chaos Powers that would wreck an enemy’s day? And while Knuckles might be more reclusive up until the threat comes to him, why would he not be able to punch the same weight against a major threat popping up? And given that Forces brought in Silver, who could more than likely throw an Death Egg Robot with his telekinesis, the war shouldn’t have been as devastating as it was—mainly because it was simply told that the world fell so quickly.

While none of this is saying that Eggman couldn’t conquer the world much easier without Sonic—hell, there’ve been continuities where he conquered the world or parts of it and kept power while Sonic was still alive and fighting to free it—and while it should be emphasized how Infinite could muck things up with his Phantom Ruby, it should honestly go without saying that if anything, without Sonic, there would be others to take his mantle with their own take. More to it, war not only hardened people, but it brings out either the best or the worst in them—assuming the best, even Amy might rise up and present enough of a challenge to give Eggman pause. At the very least, if they do lose ground the way they did in Forces, they’d continue to fight like hell every step of the way, which is what should be shown and not told.

Anything is possible, but the outcome is as much a part of the journey that led to it. And disregarding the journey like Forces did does a disservice to the question of what would happen if Sonic died.

 

[Myst]

On 10/15/2019 at 9:38 PM, Silvereyes said:

here is my "what if?" question: what if Sonic died?

 

 

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

4 hours ago, Myst said:

 

 

 

Whelp, topic solved. Good game everyone.

Guys I need help. I can give only one thumbs up for this.