Interesting revelations from Sonic 3 prototype

[Monkey Destruction Switch 7,163]

A Twitch stream from hiddenpalace (still ongoing at the time of writing this post, though now it's in a ROM hacking phase) showed a prototype of Sonic 3 (Nov 3, 1993) that I don't believe has been seen before. Some of the most interesting revelations:

• The versions of the songs that were in the PC version (Sonic & Knuckles Collection) as opposed to the MJ/Jetzons tracks in the Genesis version were apparently the original songs! They are present in a less MIDI-ish form than their PC counterparts here.
• The drop dash was apparently a thing! See this clip. I wonder why they ended up not using it and how we haven't heard anything about this before.
• There is a unique animation of Sonic swaying back and forth when he's being carried by Tails.
• Probably not quite as ground-breaking, but Knuckles' socks are the right color. That's crazy, man.

They're currently going into some glitchy unfinished levels that seem to be the beginnings of levels that would eventually be a part of Sonic & Knuckles, including Sandopolis Zone and the then-named Mushroom Valley Zone. Though the zones don't have much to them and aren't really playable, the music is intact!

Feel free to discuss these and any other revelations.

[Big Panda 9,091]

Looks like there was a homing attack-like move in the game at one point.

[Solister 979]

I just wonder what was wrong with The Jetzons - Hard Times to they change it on Sonic & Knuckles Collection/Main Game (Apparently, now).

And still then, I wonder what the hell SEGA didn't made for Michael Jackson. Apparently they let aside over than 3 tracks (Can't precise the number) to a final minute change just to include him (If I got the idea right).

[Miragnarok 1,329]

And yet Izuka claims there are still some issues with the PC tracks to be had...

[Wraith 22,333]

15 minutes ago, Noodle Panda said:

Looks like there was a homing attack-like move in the game at one point.

It's the same air dash they ended up using for Hyper Sonic. 

It seems they were conscious of the imbalance of Sonic's kit compared to the others early on in dev and were figuring out how to address it. 

The Drop Dash stuff is the most interesting thing to me. It's wild that I thought that was a genius innovation by Taxman that fixed a key problem with the originals and the whole fucking time Naka and the boys actually cracked it in 94 and just ended up cutting it for some reason.  

[StaticMania 1,919]

I hope that sound wasn't because of the dropdash, it likely couldn't be fixed in time...

[TheOcelot 11,344]

You need to press and hold up and jump - don't release until Sonic hits the ground - in order to get the drop-dash to work.

Pretty awesome of Sonic Team to have first conceived the drop-dash back in 1993 and Taxman is a fucking legend for bringing it back in Mania.

Did a quick video showing the drop-dash:

This along with the revelation the PC replacement tracks actually came first before the MJ music makes this one of the best prototype discoveries ever.

[Big Panda 9,091]

Can we get a better look at that Knuckles sprite in the first level?

[MainJP 579]

2 minutes ago, Noodle Panda said:

Can we get a better look at that Knuckles sprite in the first level?

[Big Panda 9,091]

Odd. It kind of reminds me of his artwork on the European boxart.

[Tracker_TD 10,529]

From the man himself.

[Harkofthewaa 1,590]

This proto is amazing. Although the Proto-Drop Dash is really useless as you can't hold anything other than up and jump, so you have to be at a standstill, ruining the point. It really is too ba it got cut though, the history of Sonic as we know it may have been changed forever. Also, selecting the special stages from the level select gives you some 3D sphere tests, reminds me of some of the stuff on Gamehut. And the level design is all over the place as to be expected, although there's one point in Angel Island 2 I like better here. It's the long ramp before the second SS ring, the two loops from the final are gone, leaving it a really long ramp. Charge a Spin Dash (or even better, a Drop Dash) and watch Sonic fly.

[MainJP 579]

Stop! You've violated the law!

[Jango 5,683]

Oh boy, that is amazing. All these years everyone thought the PC Collection tracks were created to replace Jackson's and avoid any controversy, when in reality those were the original intended songs. This is shocking.

 

And that's not even close to the madness that is the drop dash prototype, probably not even Naka, Iizuka or the rest of the original Sonic 3 team remember it existed before, or they might would've commented on when Mania re-introduced it.

[Miragnarok 1,329]

8 minutes ago, Jango said:

Oh boy, that is amazing. All these years everyone thought the PC Collection tracks were created to replace Jackson's and avoid any controversy, when in reality those were the original intended songs. This is shocking.

 

And that's not even close to the madness that is the drop dash prototype, probably not even Naka, Iizuka or the rest of the original Sonic 3 team remember it existed before, or they might would've commented on when Mania re-introduced it.

And then Izuka claims there are rights issues with even those tracks even though they are technically the very originals... 

 

 

[StaticMania 1,919]

8 minutes ago, Jango said:

...when in reality those were the original intended songs.

That's probably not the case either.

Unfinished music isn't exactly an uncommon thing in games.

The more likely thing is that had we not gotten the versions that were in the final game, we would've just had different tracks. Like , the only reason these became the PC tracks is because they had to replace those songs, not because they were the original. It wasn't high priority to make new music for a port.

These being the original tracks is a neat thing, but outside of Ice Cap they don't really fit the levels they belong to.

[Jango 5,683]

But what if Michael Jackson also composed these tracks? We "knew" a few of them were replaced in the PC Collection because they had bits and pieces, sometimes even straight up same melody, of some of Jackson's own songs, like Jam and Strange in Moscow*. What gives? What we actually know about this?

 

*That one was released AFTER Sonic 3, lol I forgot. Still goddamn it Brad Buxer.

[MainJP 579]

1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

From the man himself.

Is it possible this is just the NDA talking? I don't know if I buy that.

[Miragnarok 1,329]

2 minutes ago, Jango said:

But what if Michael Jackson also composed these tracks? We "knew" a few of them were replaced in the PC Collection because they had bits and pieces, sometimes even straight up same melody, of some of Jackson's own songs, like Jam and Strange in Moscow. What gives? What we actually know about this?

That’s something I hadn’t thought of. Maybe Brad Buxer, or even someone else entirely? Lego Dimensions did compose new tracks for those levels anyway. 

[StaticMania 1,919]

3 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Is it possible this is just the NDA talking? I don't know if I buy that.

Why would he have to hide the fact that he possibly knew about this idea existing in the beta and using it as inspiration? That's not exactly information game developers are shy about giving.

[MainJP 579]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Why would he have to hide the fact that he possibly knew about this idea existing in the beta and using it as inspiration? 

Why? Being under an NDA is a good enough reason. It's the same move.

[Jango 5,683]

27 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

That’s something I hadn’t thought of. Maybe Brad Buxer, or even someone else entirely? Lego Dimensions did compose new tracks for those levels anyway. 

I doubt, but what if SEGA, at some point, asked Michael to give the soundtrack his own signature, even incorporating bits from his hit songs, such as Jam, in order attract even more people into buying the game? Then they put the already composed tracks aside and replace what they could with Jackson's songs. Just to revert back and use those songs AGAIN in the PC port, because of the whole controversy that hit the artist.

[StaticMania 1,919]

Yeah, I suppose that is the only reason there needs to be.

I'm just not sure there's an actual problem, since...people didn't know about it and it's just a neat piece of information that doesn't really mean anything (if he's telling the truth).

[MainJP 579]

Here's some sprites that Rika Chou ripped.

Knuckles is sporting a different look.

[Jango 5,683]

He looks pissed AF, ngl.