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Interesting revelations from Sonic 3 prototype

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It's honestly not even a little hard to believe that this could be a coincidence. It's an idea that's pretty easy to think up and a logical extension of a move that already existed. Myself, I'm taking Whitehead's word that it's a coincidence unless there's some confirmation otherwise since there's really no reason not to.

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5 hours ago, Iko said:

Would you like to bring me some hard proofs that show how MJ was involved in the soundtrack Sonic 3? Not rumors or speculation, hard undeniable proof.

Nobody has HARD evidence but I invite you to watch this. 
 

 

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It is pretty peculiar though that if the Drop Dash was a mere coincidence, then that'd make at least 2 coincidences, since Sonic solo flying with Tails is also a scrapped Sonic 3 move that just so happened to make its way into Mania. 

Either way, this discovery is so damn cool, though. I wonder what the Sonic 3 team would've called the drop dash today if they had actually stuck with the move. It's that that kinda stuff that makes you wonder what could've been.

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50 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

...since Sonic solo flying with Tails is also a scrapped Sonic 3 move that just so happened to make its way into Mania. 

Is this actually in the prototype?

Because it seems like the it was a 2nd controller or something during the stream, not to mention...this is a pretty common fan hack concept ever since Sonic 3 Complete became a thing and it's certain that the makers of that weren't aware it wasn't gonna be exclusive to the Marble Garden boss.

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2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Is this actually in the prototype?

They showed it off near the end, as part of the functionality they hacked back in. Although looking at it again it doesn't look like it's actually player-controlled, since it seems Tails spawns in when Sonic gets near that one spring, and he follows a very fixed path, so it's not much like the "1p version of 2p Tails assist" we've seen in hacks, fangames, and Taxman's other work anyway. Might've just been meant for a cutscene or Marble Garden Act 2's boss or something.

The "drop dash" is a lot more similar, but if Taxman says it was a coincidence, I don't see reason to question that. "What if you could spindash, but in the air?" isn't so radical an idea that it couldn't be invented twice. And there's hardly any point in arguing about it since we can't possibly know otherwise unless someone involved comes out and says it.

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3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

They showed it off near the end, as part of the functionality they hacked back in. Although looking at it again it doesn't look like it's actually player-controlled, since it seems Tails spawns in when Sonic gets near that one spring, and he follows a very fixed path, so it's not much like the "1p version of 2p Tails assist" we've seen in hacks, fangames, and Taxman's other work anyway. Might've just been meant for a cutscene or Marble Garden Act 2's boss or something.

It's not something they hacked in, Tails just does that automatically when you reach that area.

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52 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Is this actually in the prototype?

Because it seems like the it was a 2nd controller or something during the stream, not to mention...this is a pretty common fan hack concept ever since Sonic 3 Complete became a thing and it's certain that the makers of that weren't aware it wasn't gonna be exclusive to the Marble Garden boss.

As far as I know, yea.

I've seen it from Sam's Procrastination Station's live stream of the prototype where he solo flew with Sonic. Check it out @ 8:30 - 8:43

 

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30 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

As far as I know, yea.

I've seen it from Sam's Procrastination Station's live stream of the prototype where he solo flew with Sonic. Check it out @ 8:30 - 8:43

 

Um, I don't think I understand...

I've been trying to do "that" and Tails doesn't fly, so that's...questionable.

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1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

Um, I don't think I understand...

I've been trying to do "that" and Tails doesn't fly, so that's...questionable.

Check my comment above yours.

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10 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I quote the post with the stream, not the Angel Island thing...

That works fine, not Tails being solo-player controlled.

You confused me there. You liked the comment talking about the air lift so I assumed you were thinking about that. 

I have no idea what Sam's talking about. I can't replicate it.

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Yeaaaa... you know, I'm testing it out myself and I can't figure out how the hell Sam did it akin to Mania's method either. It doesn't seem like anything goes out of the ordinary prior to him solo flying also so idk what's going on. Maybe it was just a glitch on his end?

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Alright, I finally figured out how Sam got the Solo Sonic flying trick to work, haha.

For whatever reason, this prototype has it so that even if you only have one controller connected, it could still read another port's inputs, even if there aren't any other controllers plugged in or around.

So just map the buttons on port 2 of whatever emulator you're using, press up and double tap jump and bingo. You'll have Sonic solo fly akin to Sonic Mania 

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@TheOcelot Would you look at that, us skeptics jumped the gun again. Seems like it really is a coincidence.

Straight from discord.

tNAMMvn.png

Sorry Taxman.

However, Stealth is actually wrong about the pseudo "Drop Dash" being a bug. The tech wizards on Retro say it was intentionally coded that way and the behavior is intentional.

 https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/sonic-month-2019-sonic-3.38936/page-7#post-950764

Quote

I just checked the code for the "drop dash".

It's not a bug. It's deliberately put in.

Code (Text):
  1. ROM:0000B61C Sonic_Jump:                             ; CODE XREF: ROM:0000AE84p
  2. ROM:0000B61C                 move.b  ($FFF603).w,d0
  3. ROM:0000B620                 andi.b  #$70,d0 ; 'p'
  4. ROM:0000B624                 beq.w   locret_B6F0
  5. ROM:0000B628                 move.b  ($FFF602).w,d0
  6. ROM:0000B62C                 andi.b  #$D,d0
  7. ROM:0000B630                 cmpi.b  #1,d0
  8. ROM:0000B634                 bne.s   loc_B63C
  9. ROM:0000B636                 move.w  #$FFFF,($FFFE5A).w
  10. ROM:0000B63C
  11. ROM:0000B63C loc_B63C:                               ; CODE XREF: Sonic_Jump+18j


in Sonic_ResetOnFloor

 

Code (Text):
  1. ROM:0000BFF2 loc_BFF2:                               ; CODE XREF: Sonic_ResetOnFloor+74j
  2. ROM:0000BFF2                 tst.w   ($FFFE5A).w
  3. ROM:0000BFF6                 beq.s   locret_C00E
  4. ROM:0000BFF8                 bmi.s   loc_C010
  5. ROM:0000BFFA                 asr     $1C(a0)
  6. ROM:0000BFFE                 asr     $18(a0)
  7. ROM:0000C002                 move.w  #0,$1A(a0)
  8. ROM:0000C008                 move.w  #0,($FFFE5A).w
  9. ROM:0000C00E
  10. ROM:0000C00E locret_C00E:                            ; CODE XREF: Sonic_ResetOnFloor+80j
  11. ROM:0000C00E                 rts
  12. ROM:0000C010 ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  13. ROM:0000C010
  14. ROM:0000C010 loc_C010:                               ; CODE XREF: Sonic_ResetOnFloor+82j
  15. ROM:0000C010                 move.w  #0,$1A(a0)
  16. ROM:0000C016                 move.w  #0,($FFFE5A).w
  17. ROM:0000C01C                 bsr.w   sub_ACEC
  18. ROM:0000C020                 move.b  #9,$20(a0)
  19. ROM:0000C026                 move.w  #$3C,d0 ; '<'
  20. ROM:0000C02A                 jsr     (PlaySound).l
  21. ROM:0000C030                 move.b  #1,$3D(a0)
  22. ROM:0000C036                 move.w  #0,$3E(a0)
  23. ROM:0000C03C                 rts

Basically, if you are holding up, but not left or right as soon as you jump, it sets a flag to -1. Later in Sonic_ResetOnFloor, it checks that flag. For when it's negative, it goes to loc_C010, where it sets Sonic up to spindash, in which if you are not holding down, it will act as a "drop dash" and boost Sonic as he touches the floor. If you do start holding down after doing the Up + Jump thing, Sonic will start spindashing when he touches the floor.

Interestingly enough, if said flag is a nonzero positive number, it seems to just halve Sonic's X speed.

I tried it for myself. Here it is in action.

sbx9sOy.gif

@Tornado Sorry for wasting your time with nonsense.

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3 hours ago, Harkofthewaa said:

So in debug mode on Angel Island Act 1 there is so.e sort of strange object. It's the one right before the red spheres, and spawning it in corrupts everything. Graphics glitch Into oblivion and collision goes away. It's weird.

The Scaling Sprite Object? Let me show it off here:

iaCreTW.png

Here's the interesting thing that happens to the collision and objects when it's placed. 

https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/sonic-month-2019-sonic-3.38936/page-24#post-951338

When you try to force load an unfinished level slot, what happens is you get garbage BG data but with visible repeating chunks with associated collision data:

Mushroom Valley.

https://i.imgur.com/YScregB.gif

Placing this Scaling Sprite Object in AIZ also seemingly causes AIZ's collision data to change to this exact same set. The cool thing is that when the object is used in AIZ the repeating chunks start to appear semi-legibly and show a clear level  layout, suggesting that these repeating platform chunks were intended to use Tree Trunk and floor BG pieces. 

According to Fred it appears to be a test object but the art no longer exists.

https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?posts/951413/

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5 hours ago, MainJP said:

@TheOcelot Would you look at that, us skeptics jumped the gun again. Seems like it really is a coincidence.

Straight from discord.

tNAMMvn.png

Sorry Taxman.

However, Stealth is actually wrong about the pseudo "Drop Dash" being a bug. The tech wizards on Retro say it was intentionally coded that way and the behavior is intentional.

 https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/sonic-month-2019-sonic-3.38936/page-7#post-950764

I tried it for myself. Here it is in action.

sbx9sOy.gif

@Tornado Sorry for wasting your time with nonsense.

It was a discussion. It's not a waste of time.

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7 hours ago, MainJP said:

@TheOcelot Would you look at that, us skeptics jumped the gun again. Seems like it really is a coincidence.

Straight from discord.

tNAMMvn.png

Sorry Taxman.

However, Stealth is actually wrong about the pseudo "Drop Dash" being a bug. The tech wizards on Retro say it was intentionally coded that way and the behavior is intentional.

 https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/sonic-month-2019-sonic-3.38936/page-7#post-950764

I tried it for myself. Here it is in action.

sbx9sOy.gif

@Tornado Sorry for wasting your time with nonsense.

This is exactly the information I was looking for.

So it's a coincidence for real, and this is very interesting indeed.

In the meanwhile, it seems that it's true that they can't talk about the development of the game, as expected.

Anyway, it seems it was just a way to activate the spindash on landing, and the "Drop Dash" effect is accidental just because people don't hold down, and a not charged spindash starts automatically on landing.

This makes me wonder... What happens if you do this while moving? The game only cares about you holding up+jump in the moment you jump, then you can hold wathever you want, so if you do it while carrying some momentum and press a direction after activating it, you should be able to do it in movement, right? What happens if you do it in movement and charge the spindash on landing? Does Sonic stop in place losing all the momentum, or does he skid forward in ball form for a while?

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11 minutes ago, Iko said:

Anyway, it seems it was just a way to activate the spindash on landing, and the "Drop Dash" effect is accidental just because people don't hold down, and a not charged spindash starts automatically on landing.

Hold up, automatic spindash on landing.

Hold down, starts charging spindash after landing.

No confusion.

You can do it while moving, you just can't hold right or left before jumping.

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@StaticMania "...If you do start holding down after doing the Up + Jump thing, Sonic will start spindashing when he touches the floor. "

from the quote above.

They are not separate things, it's still part of the same trick, the up+jump part is always required.

It means that it activates a spindash all the times, but you have to hold down before (and after) touching the ground in order to charge it, else it will be released automatically.

At least, that's what I realized by reading those quotes, I haven't tried myself.

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Alright, that checks out then, I just tested it.

That's a really specific input though and it's not at all convenient.

In that way it's more of a way to activate the spindash while moving and keep speed up if you got slowed down by anything.

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