Spoilers.

[-Mark-]

Well, I just had a bit of a debate about this matter, so I thought it might be interesting to bring it here.

When do spoilers really stop being spoilers? How long do you think it is before people completely throw away their right to complain about having an ending spoiled for them?

I'm not sure myself, but it does seem a bit ridiculous when people are complaining about spoilers for something that's a few years old. Whilst I can understand that not everyone will watch/ play/ read everything right away, I'm generally of the mindset that if someone cares about something enough to be irritated at having part of it spoiled, then shouldn't they watch/ play/ read it relatively soon after release out of that level of interest alone?

Interestingly, I don't ever remember being annoyed about spoilers as a kid. If someone told me the ending to something back then, I didn't really care. Dunno why.

But yeah. What are your views on spoilers in general? Do they bug the hell out of you, or are you cool with them? And how long do -you- think it is before things should stop being considered 'spoilers'?

[DMNBT]

I don't really care about spoilers, as I get the same enjoyment of stuff I experience personally with or without spoilers. Among my friends, though, we have a rule that if something is less than 6 months old, then we can't talk about stuff that can be considered spoilers.

Also, Aerith dies.

[KittyNakajima]

I usually don't give a flying shit about reading spoilers or not, but in some rare cases there are times where I would. The latest was when Sonic Chronicles was about a week away from release and some folks in Australia beat the game super quick and started to post spoilers about it on the forums. I had the ending spoiled by mistake (I had gone to Sonic's ED page and read it paraphrased), but instead of being upset I was just more anxious to get the game and see for myself.

With that being said, while I can understand why someone would get upset, I don't get why some folks would get so worked up to the point of doing something very stupid over reading/hearing a spoiler. Like the fake spoilers that went around when the last Harry Potter book came out, and some girl went and hung herself because it had Harry and all the rest completely killed off.

[Strong Bad]

You throw away your right to complain about an ending being spoiled when you use the Internet.

It's the same fucking game/movie/series regardless of whether your hear about it beforehand or not. Nothing changes. Any bitching about "but it would have been better as a surprise!1!!" is sentimental, emotional, and holds no bearing in an actual debate.

[-Mark-]

Yeah, I think most people in general sort of loosen up in terms of that in six months, really. In all honesty, if you haven't seen it by then (assuming you actually intend to), why haven't you?

I mean, it's common sense to know that the longer you leave something, the harder it'll be to avoid spoilers. It's for this reason that it really bugs me that the second and third Professor Layton games aren't out here for ages. I don't want to see spoilers, but since they're already out in Japan, it's going to be pretty hard to avoid them all until they're finally released here.

[BlueFox]

I suppose it depends on how much your into the item that is going to be spoiled. E.G. I'm in the U.K. and I'm a HUGE Heroes fan. My friend who has the advantage of seing the American shows (2 or 3 weeks ahead) keeps teasing me about it. But the thing is, it's the same with MGS4. I haven't got a PS3 and I don't intend to buy one soon (Hopefully borrow my friends one) and that's been out for such a long time, but I still want to find it all out for myself. I suppose it's just how big a fan you are and how much of a story there is.

[-Mark-]

Well, I never got Sonic 06, so spoilers for that don't really bother me. Sure, I'll probably pick the game up in a few years when secondhand 360s are going cheap, but I can accept that holding off on the plot until then is stupidly unrealistic. D=

[Thirsty Pocket]

Spoilers stop being spoilers one year after the game is released. If you still have not played/beaten the game, then it's your fault... usually.

It's a special case with japan only games like Mother 3 though. Until a translation is released.

Stay off the internet, especially forums, if you wish to avoid spoilers. It's unavoidable.

I had many an ending spoiled for me, like Mother 3, Yume Nikki, Sonic's death in 06, and the shocking revealation of Samuses Gender.

[Badnik Zero]

Still haven't finished MGS4. It's because I don't have a PS3!

Spoilers vary according to the medium, IMO. It also has to do with who you're talking to. On the internet, like Strong Bad said, you're talking to people who've come and visited the forum or whatever. You really set yourself up for spoilers if you come onto the IMDB page of some movie with a surprise ending, for example. About that. If something has a surprise ending, don't be a douche and wave it around like you have some special information. Someone who wanted to find out for themselves is gonna be pissed at you. I've also seen some people say they don't wanna be spoiled by watching trailers. I kind of get that, because stupidly edited trailers can give away a lot to an observant person, but if you're talking about a 30 second clip with no real information, then the guy's probably just being dumb.

But when it comes to surprise endings, especially massive reveals at the end of a long series such as MGS or something on television or Harry Potter, and you think lots of people probably haven't had the chance to experience the game, movie, or book, don't throw that shit around for fun unless you're really discussing it with someone. Not nice.

I do agree that by now, stuff like letting people know that Aerith dies or Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father is past the limitations. Once something becomes a classic it's considered common knowledge. But that also applies to who you're talking to, because one person's classic can be another one's trash. So if someone like that still doesn't know the spoiler, don't be a douche. They might even thank you for turning them on to a great game or movie. I love getting people into a series, and I'm always hush about those spoilers.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Badnikz

[Eileanach]

I think that spoilers become spoilers once the film/game etc has been out for well over six months. If you haven't gotten the game, read the book or saw the film it's your own fault for being so late into the game.

I am not someone who ever spoils stuff for anyone, I do my best to keep hush-hush and just introduce them to things I think they will enjoy. However if someone is mean to me and spoils something I like then I will do my utmost to spoil something they like. Tit for Tat really. Generally though I don't meet people like that so I never have an issue with spoilers.

[JezMM]

I find it bizarre in the cases of Unleashed and Black Knight that people can't wait to post spoilers around in unrelated topics within the mere week gap between the US and UK release dates... Grrr.

Yes I suppose I have no right to complain because I didn't HAVE to use the internet for this week, but I just so happen to like this community and get bored when I can't see what's goin' on at some point during the day.

For spoilers for another game, I will ALWAYS use spoiler tags if I think it's a really awesome surprise. Just a few days back I covered a spoiler for Paper Mario 2 in the Paper Mario thread, a game that came out about 5 years or so ago.

I sort of have it in for myself though. In the past I have been hungry for spoilers quite often as I was not always able to get the game straight away. But these days after the wonderful experience of Mario Galaxy remaining completely unspoiled for me, I've decided to give up spoilers entirely (lol I make it sound like a drug).

And when I say ENTIRELY I mean entirely. It annoyed me that I accidentally discovered the following things about Unleashed before the game was out:

The final level was Eggman Land

The final boss used a remix of Endless Possiblities

There was another vocal song

Eggman Land looked like a huge evil funfair/mechanical metropolis

There was a character in it called Prof. Pickle

There was a Torando flying minigame

Dark Gaia's physical appearence

Most of those are pretty minor, but I WISH I could have experienced all these things for the first time without knowing they were coming up, because I absoloutely loved every one of them.

Thankfully my list for SatBK is pretty small of what I know. I can't wait for tomorrow when I can finally play it.

Edited March 12, 2009 by JezMM

[Flint]

Any bitching about "but it would have been better as a surprise!1!!" is sentimental, emotional, and holds no bearing in an actual debate.

Why not?

[Kernel Machinegun]

I don't care about spoilers. I always read about the plot and details of a film or whatever before I watch it.

Whining about how something has been spoiled for you is pointless and annoying. It doesn't take away the enjoyment away from you, well at least I think so.

[Hawkz]

Why not?

I believe he was saying something which was meant to resemble: You are browsing a dedicated Sonic The Hedgehog message board and DON'T expect to find spoilers in the games?!

The internet is one giant spoiler machine. You don't just randomly happen upon spoilers on the internet, especially message boards or reviews, where the existence of the board/review is designed to discuss the subject at hand... objectively and opinion-wise.

If there are spoiler tags, even better, but (for example) if you don't want to be spoiled on the ending of the newest Sonic game, would be a great idea to NOT visit SSMB until you have finished and played said game. Likewise, reading previews or reports will just as likely spoil the experience. The only way to truly avoid spoilers is pretending the source never existed. Looking for it on the net, then complaining about spoilers is like jumping a cattle fence, then bitching when the bull tries to fuck your life.

[Strong Bad]

Why not?

Debates should usually be based on facts & logic rather than baseless conjectures and emotional outbursts.

[Flint]

Debates should usually be based on facts & logic rather than baseless conjectures and emotional outbursts.

We are talking about stories, pieces of art designed to affect people's emotions. They are written with the thought in mind that the experience is going to be delivered directly from the source to the one experiencing it, unspoiled in the way. We are talking about media which is aimed to give experiences and emotional moments. It may be the same game/movie/etc in a purely logical base but the personal experiences are all individual and vulnerable to being affected in ways they're not supposed to. Not wishing to have those experiences altered or the impact lessened due to some tits in the internet who start posting spoilers in places not related to the game/movie/whatever, or places aimed to discuss about it but not regarding the plot, is a perfectly valid argument.

Emotion has everything to do with media that attempts to raise emotions.

"You lose the right to complain about spoilers when you go to the 'net" is pretty much as immature and childish "murrr im a big cool tough guy here on teh interwubz" comment as "INTERNET IS SRS BSNZ LOL".

Edited March 12, 2009 by Flint

[Hawkz]

We are talking about stories, pieces of art designed to affect people's emotions. They are written with the thought in mind that the experience is going to be delivered directly from the source to the one experiencing it, unspoiled in the way. We are talking about media which is aimed to give experiences and emotional moments. It may be the same game/movie/etc in a purely logical base but the personal experiences are all individual and vulnerable to being affected in ways they're not supposed to. Not wishing to have those experiences altered or the impact lessened due to some tits in the internet who start posting spoilers in places not related to the game/movie/whatever, or places aimed to discuss about it but not regarding the plot, is a perfectly valid argument.

Emotion has everything to do with media that attempts to raise emotions.

"You lose the right to complain about spoilers when you go to the 'net" is pretty much as immature and childish "murrr im a big cool tough guy here on teh interwubz" comment as "INTERNET IS SRS BSNZ LOL".

Flint been scorned by some channers in the past lol

SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDOOR!

[Badnik Zero]

SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDOOR!

See that's just uncool. That's something that comes at the end of a series. I don't care about Harry Potter, but if someone was up to that book after reading all the other six, and got that spoiled for them, I might help them do something mean over the internet to you...

Or something.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Badnikz

[Pelly <3's U]

See that's just uncool. That's something that comes at the end of a series. I don't care about Harry Potter, but if someone was up to that book after reading all the other six, and got that spoiled for them, I might help them do something mean over the internet to you...

Or something.

You think that someone who come into a discussion regarding spoilers isn't going to figure that someone will probably say a random spoiler?

Plus everyone knows Snape killed Dumbledore =P

I can see why spoilers can make things less enjoyable since watching a plot twist unfold while being immersed in an experience is a different feeling then reading some random story moment on the internet. I'm sure The Sixth Sense would have have been better if I had watched it without knowing

Bruce Willis was dead all along!!!!!

. I don't think it makes that huge of a difference to me though, ever since wikipedia I've spoiled everything in existence for myself.

[Badnik Zero]

You think that someone who come into a discussion regarding spoilers isn't going to figure that someone will probably say a random spoiler?

Plus everyone knows Snape killed Dumbledore =P

Yeah, I kind of figured we'd see some of that. But I know some people that only recently finished the series. It's one of those things that I think people are still completing. If the movie had come out already, I'd feel different about it.

But it's really who you talk to. In some places you'd be considered crazy for not liking Harry Potter. I'm not much into the series though.

I'm sure The Sixth Sense would have have been better if I had watched it without knowing

Bruce Willis was dead all along!!!!!

.

Ha ha ha. That's like ruining the only redeeming part of M. Night Shyamalan's career.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Badnikz

[Pelly <3's U]

Ha ha ha. That's like ruining the only redeeming part of M. Night Shyamalan's career.

SHHH! The spoiler/plot twist to all his movies is that they all are horrible. Don't ruin it for the people =(

Edited March 12, 2009 by Pelly

[Flint]

Flint been scorned by some channers in the past lol

I haven't been interested in anything that channers find lulzy to spoil . To my knowledge anyway.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Flint

[Covskin]

I do remember a Flint outburst when something in Lost was spoiled in years of anceint lore. It was odd, don't properly remember Flint ever being angry about anything else lol.

I'd say 6 months if fair game for spoilers in general conversation. If you're missed out on something in its first 6 months, well, then its up to you to take the care into to rush into a situation where it could be spoiled.

My own approach, let's use Metal Gear Solid 4 as an example. It came out last summer, and I don't see myself playing it until this coming summer at the earliest. So, a month before its release (because there's always someone who leaks info before it comes out), I ignored every Metal Gear Solid 4 thing I could. I'd see a review score, but I wouldn't read the review. I stopped looking at the MGS4 thread here. You get the idea. I remember a topic about unlucky VG characters (or something), and Cassanova mentioned Otacon. I went straight to the next post. You just have to be careful.

That said, I did actually give myself a spoiler when looking at the MGS3 Wikipedia page, but that was my own stupid fault.

[Sean]

On and off I care about spoilers; it really all depends on how much I value the material. I have yet to complete EarthBound or Mother 3, and I've been avoiding any and all spoilers like the plague (hence why I never participate in any discussions concerning the games, even though it's one of my favorite game series). Other times, I don't give much of a fuck, such as when I finished reading the first two Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books and decided to skip all the way to the end to see what happens to the main characters.

Sometimes, though, I can love a series a lot but be anxious to see how it ends. For example, I watched the anime series Kino no Tabi completely out of order because I was afraid that the main protagonist was going to die in the end (I watched volume 1... and then volume 4, and volume 2 after that, and one year later, volume 3). In this case, it didn't really matter because the anime doesn't follow an overall storyline, and the final episode is nothing special in comparison to the other episodes, save for certain parallels to the character's past.

I don't take any pleasure in spoiling anything for others, however. I know what it's like to get pretty passionate about keeping certain events a surprise to myself, and so I don't want to drain that sense of enjoyment out of anybody else who would feel the same way. (This is also the reason why I try never mentioning games such as Mother 3 around other people, because I don't want to accidentally come across somebody who spoils it for me "for the lulz". In fact, I never mentioned Mother 3 in this post. LEAVE ME BE.)

Edited March 12, 2009 by Jake

[-Mark-]

I do think that spoilers are actually pretty hard to run into unless you go to the right places actually, to be honest. I only got into Death Note and One Piece last year, yet despite them both having been around for a bit (especially One Piece), I found that I only knew small parts of the plot in advance from what I'd seen around the Internet.

But obviously, if you don't really venture into the fandom for something and stay away from places like Wikipedia, you're not really going to run into all that many spoilers anyway.