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Requiem for a Hedgehog


Machenstein

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You and I know that the Sonic community has been pining for Sonic to make a real comeback for some time now. There have been many "How to Fix Sonic" threads and articles, but regardless of what solutions they provide, it seems none of the people who make these threads or articles ask themselves why they want Sonic to succeed. They express their distaste for these new games, list all the problems they have with the series, then come up with possible solutions that may or may not "save" Sonic. Yet, despite all the energy they put forth in making these articles, they don't seem to have any reason as to why they even bothered.

Here's the question I'm trying to ask: why do you want Sonic to succeed? This isn't about the quality of the games. This isn't another "How to Fix Sonic" thread either. This is about your motivation. What drives you to keep hoping despite years of disappointment? What form of gratification do you hope to obtain once Sonic makes his big comeback?

Don't get me all wrong, I'm not trying to undermine your hopes for Sonic. I still have them too. I just want to know why we still wait after so many years. Does to prospect of good Sonic games excite us that much? Maybe it goes deeper than that. Maybe some of us grew up in a halcyon time when Sonic was most prominent, but once the spirit of that time faded away along with Sonic's prominence, our worlds became less complete. With all that considered, are we really any different than the kids of the 80's who get excited everytime their favorite franchises return? Are we any different than those people who celebrated when Mega Man 9 came out of nowhere with its NES graphics and sound?

See, I want that for Sonic, along with all the other franchises that were popular in the 90's. I guess you could say it's nostalgia, but my world would honestly feel more complete if Sonic actually made a real comeback and became a beloved cult icon again. Unfortunately there have been so many failed attempts to make that happen that I don't even know if it's possible anymore. I'm sure some of us will care once it happens, but will there still be enough of us to ensure that the comeback will receive the attention it deserves?

What are your thoughts? Why do you want Sonic to succeed?

Edited by Maruyama
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You and I know that the Sonic community has been pining for Sonic to make a real comeback for some time now. There have been many "How to Fix Sonic" threads and articles, but regardless of what solutions they provide, it seems none of the people who make these threads or articles ask themselves why they want Sonic to succeed. They express their distaste for these new games, list all the problems they have with the series, then come up with possible solutions that may or may not "save" Sonic. Yet, despite all the energy they put forth in making these articles, they don't seem to have any reason as to why they even bothered.

Here's the question I'm trying to ask: why do you want Sonic to succeed? This isn't about the quality of the games. This isn't another "How to Fix Sonic" thread either. This is about your motivation. What drives you to keep hoping despite years of disappointment? What form of gratification do you hope to obtain once Sonic makes his big comeback?

Don't get me all wrong, I'm not trying to undermine your hopes for Sonic. I still have them too. I just want to know why we still wait after so many years. Does to prospect of good Sonic games excite us that much? Maybe it goes deeper than that. Maybe some of us grew up in a halcyon time when Sonic was most prominent, but once the spirit of that time faded away along with Sonic's prominence, our worlds became less complete. With all that considered, are we really any different than the kids of the 80's who get excited everytime their favorite franchises return? Are we any different than those people who celebrated when Mega Man 9 came out of nowhere with its NES graphics and sound?

See, I want that for Sonic, along with all the other franchises that were popular in the 90's. I guess you could say it's nostalgia, but my world would honestly feel more complete if Sonic actually made a real comeback and became a beloved cult icon again. Unfortunately there have been so many failed attempts to make that happen that I don't even know if it's possible anymore. I'm sure some of us will care once it happens, but will there still be enough of us to ensure that the comeback will receive the attention it deserves?

What are your thoughts? Why do you want Sonic to succeed?

I got a question for you:

why leave the Sonic franchise failing?

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So... why do I want Sonic to succeed?

Because he's one of the best character creations of the '90s. And his classic games were close to 16-bit perfection.

I don't see why nostalgia should be a bad thing. Yeah, he was on TV when I was a kid, and I owned his games. So... if Sonic is still around, I don't see why I wouldn't want him to do well. Even people who don't call themselves fans would admit that much. I think gamers want to see another great Sonic game, they've just gotten tired of not getting it. Maybe he's a bit different from other underdog franchises because Sonic used to be king. But I've always been a fan of Sonic, so I want some more Sonic goodness.

Maybe I don't get the question... is there more?

Edited by Ezra the Badnik
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I simply want Sonic to succeed because I've enjoyed him for so long, ever since I was 6. I might not like everything remotely having to do with him whether it be a cartoon series or a particular game, but that's never stopped me from enjoying what I do like about the series overall. And if I as an adult can sit back and still find some good in the series, what's to say that the next generation can't as well?

I remember on the old ver. of SSMB that they had a topic about how folks often see other people enjoying Sonic, and I said that I mostly see kids - the next generation, enjoying it. At work I've seen kids carrying around Amy Rose and Sonic plushies around like a security blanket while they and/or their older siblings were playing a Sonic title on the GBA/DS/PSP. They were doing what I was at their age with my Game Gear - enjoying the awe of a Sonic title. I loved the colors, the sounds, the fact that it seemed you could go so fast in something so small and compact. And even when I got stuck and kept dying, I kept playing because I wanted to get to the end.

But as an adult, things can't always be that simple, eh? I know I still love the occasional game of Sonic 1, 2, 3 but I also loved titles like Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 where SEGA threw a whole bunch of different types of gameplay into the mix besides utilizing Sonic's signature speed. I loved treasure hunting with Knuckles to pretending to be Solid Snake with Amy Rose while hiding away from Zero. I also even loved having the chase after Sonic as Tails, along with the 'explore at your own pace' feel that adventure zones such as Station Square and the Mystic Ruins gave off. You could pretty much say that kick started SEGA's experimentation of giving out a Sonic title since most titles since the Adventure series has always tried something different. Heroes had the power of teamwork, Shadow's title had guns, and the 06' reboot had a mixture of the aforementioned. Unleashed saw a balance between speed and platforming, while the Storybook series required Sonic to utilize his speed and platforming skills in accordance to the rules and regulations of the story he was following.

And while the series evolved into a more complex situation than the days of yesteryear, there have been titles since the Dreamcast era that have stayed true to the original formula. The Advance and Rush series of games manage to capture the lighthearted, fast and trippy world of the original games while introducing the storytelling and awe that the 3-D series has been delivering since 1999.

All in all, I really like how far the series and come and evolved from what it originally started as, and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes in the future, given that the interest in him hasn't dropped as much as some folks think it has.

P.S. - I was also trying to work in an analogy of something that folks enjoyed as children and pass on to their kids, but couldn't get it into my original post. Things like yo-yos, hula hoops, teddy bears, and even dolls never get old. They might be outdated, but a quick reboot or revision usually enables them to stay fresh and new to the current generation. You had the generic store teddy bear that you used to sleep with that now might pale in comparison to customizing and making it your own in a Build A Bear Workshop somewhere. Even at that, kids grow out of all those things and move on to new interests and likes. I guess what some folks are upset about with newer Sonic titles is that as they grew older, he grew older, and it didn't quite mess with what they liked about him in the first place. So really, if you think about it, the folks who whine the most about it actually grew out of him. He's not meeting the originally simple, yet nostalgic expectations held for him by those folks, and they're upset that they can't enjoy him in the same way that they did as a kid.

Edited by KittyNakajima
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Nothing else does what Sonic can do. For all the millions of games out there, I've yet to see one that would fill the void that Sonic would leave behind.

This isn't something that's unique to Sonic, of course. I think everyone would feel that way if their favorite game or series' existence or integrity were threatened. It's why we worry about any big changes in the next sequel, and why we're so disappointed when a great game doesn't even get a sequel. It just so happens that Sonic's in a situation that amplifies this to ridiculous levels; at its height it was one of the greatest game series to ever exist, then it loses track of what made it great and the quality goes to shit, and now it's treated like (and sometimes is) halfassed third-rate shovelware.

For me, it's not about Sonic being "successful". I just want to play the games that only this series can give me.

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Was there ever something out there that just grew on you so much it set up permanent residence in a special place in your heart? Is it something you love so much that it pains you to see it not doing so well, pains you to the point of wanting to do whatever it is in your power to make it better? Though I did not fully comprehend it at the time, something changed in the video game industry when Sonic came around. Since then, I have never stopped wanting to see Sonic kick Mario's ass. Mario has always been cheesy kids' stuff compared to Sonic. Sonic games have a more understandable world setting and a deeper, more exciting storyline. Oh, yeah, and Eggman can kick Koopa's ass, too.

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Because I was a big fan when I was younger and I'd like to see the series I was so crazy about back then do well. (Though I would say the series is starting to get back to what made it fun to begin with.) That, and no other series has ever been able to pull off quite the same gameplay as Sonic so it'd be a shame to see the series fail.

Edited by Cipher
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Because Sonic moves me. There's no better explanations. His games excite me and make me want to play and play, more and more, explore each corner, try every possibility. SEGA games tend to do this to me, but Sonic the most I guess (there's some very good run-ups as well).

I'm one of those that liked Unleashed (never played Eggman Land however), so I might not count. Personally, I think people whine too much. Sure 06 sucked but Unleashed was very good. Those 2D-3D transitions are love.

Edited by redmenace
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Personally, Sonic to me is like my favourite item on a resturant menu.

I eat it because I like it. It's just yummy. Every now and then there'll be a chef who doesn't quite cook it right so I'll leave the resturant unsatisfied, but usually, it hits the spot. Except when I don't fancy it in particular, and want to eat Mario or Half-Life for a change perhaps.

The point is, I'd be very sad if it was removed from the menu and I couldn't eat it anymore. =(

Edited by JezMM
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Is it something you love so much that it pains you to see it not doing so well, pains you to the point of wanting to do whatever it is in your power to make it better?

That's the very reason why I make posts like this. It vexes me when people on the Internet constantly bring up all the blemishes in Sonic's track record as if these blemishes are all these people know Sonic for. I made this thread because I want to know if you guys would still have the drive to celebrate if Sonic finally made a real comeback. If you no longer had a reason why you want Sonic to succeed, there would be no reason to get your hopes up for the next Sonic game.

What should we do once Sega announces the next Sonic game and we know it will be good? How will we celebrate? We should prepare for such an occasion in case it really does happen. And when it does, I suggest we avoid bringing up the past blemishes and focus on why we hung on in the first place.

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I simply want Sonic to succeed because I've enjoyed him for so long, ever since I was 6.

:unsure:

lol j.k.

Imo, Sonic is a Lovable character for some reason, and once you played a game or two you make a connection to the persona etc. and just get hooked on the Sonic Universe lol. So when a new chapter comes out, it's very difficult not to want to try it for yourself, even if you know the reviews have been horrible.

Edited by Frieza
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Because I'm hardly ever disappointed.

I'm speaking from a general perspective here. Many people on the Internet (see a trend here) often express their disappointment, which is fine, but they devote a lot of time into expressing it, even when a game is not that bad. These people could just say "Game sucks. Don't buy it." and leave it at that, but given all the effort put forth into criticising these games, you can tell a greater cause is being had. The question is what is this cause, exactly? Do they want to see quality Sonic games that badly, or is there some kind of sentimental attachment for the character? I'm sure it's both, but we all have our own reasons.

I don't know, maybe I shouldn't make threads like these anymore. I know you and I see something special about Sonic, but the world seems to have forgotten what it is, including Sega. I want to know if you still know and why you aspire for that niche to be filled.

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People express their disappointment, but they hardly ever played the games. I know various cases that say that Sonic sucks, and they haven't even played the classics. I was there when JSRF was some reviewer's favourite game on the Dreamcast, when it never set foot on the machine. Or the infamous Football Manager review. Review sites are pretty much a joke nowadays.

It's cool to hate and Sonic then, it's like a trend nowardays. Trolls in the internet like the bandwagon as well. Quite frankly, I have no patience for this anymore.

I wouldn't say they forgot, they simply went down a route to adpat it to the new age and it didn't work. I still think SU was good, just add physics and some more multiple paths.

Edited by redmenace
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I guess it's kinda pathetic to admit it, but deep inside it's probably just that it's so hard to accept when something is over.

We all have such wonderful and fond memories of the franchise and want to continue having those. We've become so attached to the character.

It's sort of like an addiction, really.

It's probably a overly pessimistic way of seeing things, but that's kinda how it seems with many things concerning nostalgia. :/

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To elaborate on my earlier post, if I had to give a reason I would say that its because Sonic's gameplay just seems to click with me, and it always has. There isn't another fast-paced platformer/racer hybrid on the market, so Sonic is unique in that sense. Also, the characters themselves keep me coming back for more, as each one is unique and entertaining in their own way. The same cannot be said for many other platformers. Each game is like another chapter in a story, and I always want to experience what happens next. While I still like Mario, the same does not hold true for his games.

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Sonic had some of the best platforming games ( my favorite genre of games, a drying breed as well ) of the 90's. I want to see the high calibur games he was known for pre-Sonic Heroes again, because there are no other games quite like it. It's a comparison made probably too often, but he really was just as good as Mario. No other platforming hero that I can think of has the honor of being Mario's equal. ( Sure Kirby comes close, but in the end he falls short, in my opinion. )

In the age of FPS games, Wii sports sequels, Furniture collecting, brain training, and cooking games, I just want the world's OTHER greatest platforming character to show up and impress me like he used to.

I may be attatched to Sonic through nostalgia in tiny doses, having memories of holding my stuffed Sonic doll close while watching the Sonic cartoon, reading the comics, drawing Sonic at school, and eating Sonic shaped Pasta even, but the fact is, I wouldn't ever have done any of those things if I didn't genuinely enjoy his game when I was a kid, and still do today. Heck, I think I enjoy Sonic 1 even more than I did as a Kid.

So simply put... we want Sonic saved because he was once great, and we want him to be great again. It's actually a pretty silly question once I think about it.

Now, had some one said, "I want Awesome Possum" saved, then I would understand questioning it.

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I'm not trying to say that it's wrong to want Sonic to succeed. I already know why I want Sonic to succeed. I made this thread because I want to know why you guys want Sonic to succeed. I know the answer to that question may seem obvious, but some people out there have different motives than we do. Is it the character, is it the memories, or is it just the potential in quality Sonic games that excites us? Maybe this dream is not for Sonic specifically as much as it is for the gaming world. If Sonic does succeed in the future, much would it complete the gaming world for you? Perhaps this success could even serve to better pop culture.

I have very conflicting feelings about the new 2D game that has just been announced. Even if it does succeed, will it still kindle any interest in the series after Sonic Team has had several chances to do so? They should have succeeded with that a long time ago with Sonic Heroes, but they didn't. And every chance they have had since, they also failed. They should have succeeded with Sonic Rush, but unfortunately everyone's attention was diverted to Shadow the Hedgehog at the time. They should have succeeded with Sonic 2006, which would have easily made up for Heroes and Shadow, but ultimately added more fuel to an already devastating fire. Secret Rings did nothing to quell that fire and neither did Sonic Unleashed. And even before any those games, people were already debating about the quality of the Saturn and Dreamcast games. As good as the new 2D game may be, how will it make up for all the past disappointments? How will it reverse the bitterness that remains in some people's hearts? I want there to be fanfare if this game succeeds, but it won't happen if the community at large continues to harbor this attitude that it's too late for Sonic.

I'll tell you truth, I really made this thread because I want to know if you still want Sonic to succeed at all. I can tell some of these people have this "No, it's too late." attitude because they no longer feel that Sonic's success would be anything worthwhile. They take more enjoyment in criticising bad Sonic games than they do taking enjoyment in good Sonic games. And you want to know what? That's depressing.

Edited by Maruyama
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Well since this topic is called "Requiem for a Hedgehog"....

XD I couldn't resist.

Why do I want him to make it? Sonic makes me happy. Period. The character, the game, the cartoons, the comic, the music. I'm just so happy with pretty much anything relating to Sonic. And I can't get over Sonic.I'VE TRIED. I know that Heroes really hurt, and Shadow had hurt more, and 06 did Sonic in for many people, but I couldn't stop loving Sonic. Unleashed was just such an improvement that I remembered why I loved Sonic games again.

And even if there is never another good Sonic game ever I still have all of the good ones that will NEVER disappoint me.

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Frankly, I've given up on the idea of Sonic making a smashingly glorious return as a Mario killer; Fractured fan and gamer bases, the lack of platformers' prominence, Sega's reputation, the aggravating "it's too late" attitude you've noted, biases, and a whole host of other factors have made me unreceptive to the idea. It's not a realistic goal, but a fairy tale.

But why does Sonic have to be exactly that way again to be successful? Why do we rarely define success under many circumstances? While the restoration of his previous status would be excessively ideal, I'd much rather see a more imaginable level of success for Sonic in this current era-- A stable string of releases, and subsequently a more solid and reliable foothold in the industry and the respect that would come along with that. He may not crank out 8-10 million copies or always satisfy his staunchly nostalgia crowd like his former rival, but goddamn I'd be ecstatic for at least a lack of the absolutely ridiculous vitriol that comes with the mere hint of a new Sonic game and a solid 3 million in sales.

I'm sure there are plenty who would look down upon this par I've set, which is okay, but I'd say such disagreements are part of the problem. Everyone wants Sonic to be successful because we like the series to some extent and thus want to see it do well, but this goal will never come to fruition if we can't even define its parameters first.

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Sega's reputation? What do you mean by that? Sega has been publishing some pretty awesome games as of late so I doubt that it has anything to do with Sonic Team's reputation. But the rest, I understand. I, for one, stopped suggestioning what would be cool in video games in general because I have no idea of the technicality of video game programing. I just like playing them. So far, every suggestion that I've been for has been implemented and turned to shit. So why bother? I just want a fun Sonic game, regardless if it's 2-D, 3-D, or both, or even pixel shaded or HD graphics.

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Sega's reputation? What do you mean by that? Sega has been publishing some pretty awesome games as of late so I doubt that it has anything to do with Sonic Team's reputation.

From what I've seen myself, despite Sega's more praised titles, they have yet to solidify a more respectable reputation for themselves, the same way everyone continues to conclude that the Sonic franchise is shit despite the existence of things like the Rush or Advance series'.

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From what I've seen myself, despite Sega's more praised titles, they have yet to solidify a more respectable reputation for themselves, the same way everyone continues to conclude that the Sonic franchise is shit despite the existence of things like the Rush or Advance series'.

Well, I think that you shouldn't worry so much about what other people think of Sonic. Or rather, I don't think you should worry so much about their perception of Sonic's popularity. Perceptions can be a dangerous and misleading thing, a very loud opinion can override reality, making support for an idea seem much weaker or stronger then it really is. Sonic is not immune to this process.

I think it should be obvious but I'll say it anyway, Sonic the Hedgehog is an incredibly popular videogame character. The sale of his games are quite impressive, he is the eleventh most profitable franchises in America, a situation owed to the vast number of fans who buy each Sonic game. On a more anecdotal note, Sonic fans can be found just about anywhere; just simply consider the number of Sonic fan sites on the internet

So yes, what passes for popular opinion on Digg is very noisy but that won't make it any closer to being true. Certainly, perceptions can be a problem, if misinformed ideas get popular enough they can accepted as 'fact'. However, that same mechanism can work in reverse; a wave of positive sentiment can wash away even the most malignant of reputations.

So far as Sonic is concerned, all negative perceptions can be eliminate. In turn, the positive perception becomes reality; it will be as if all that drama never even existed. In this respect, I think that Sonic Unleashed has gone a long way to restoring the average gamer's perception of Sonic. Now it is a matter of continuing this process with new Sonic games. I can't say for certain how long this process will take the goal of restoring people's perception of Sonic is possible.

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From what I've seen myself, despite Sega's more praised titles, they have yet to solidify a more respectable reputation for themselves, the same way everyone continues to conclude that the Sonic franchise is shit despite the existence of things like the Rush or Advance series'.

Let me put it this way: Sonic 06 was not the worst game Sega has made recently. They really do deserve their shaky reputation.

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