Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Official Thread (Spoilers in tag)

[Red Hot Jack]

 

No spoilers for now: I saw TROS yesterday, me and my friends enjoyed it, it has its flaws yeah, but it's a bold movie, epic and fitting finale to the saga, it gives answers and unifies the trilogy so I can't complain, after TLJ didn't give any answers. One last adventure with these friends… Yep, the internet is gonna kill it with fire, but as the internet usually does, the fandom is in hatred with this trilogy, so anything that happens and touches the original trilogy plot is considered as blasphemy. It's a good movie though, hardly perfect, I'm not gonna defend anything they throw at us but I'm okay with the twists, it's supposed to be an ending and it does what it needs to do, give us closure and epic fights, it's a really grand finale, Rey is amazing in this, Daisy Ridley did a good performance, I'm actually a bit disappointed with Kylo Ren's portrayal, but he gets closure and ends his arc in a fitting way as well, as it was meant to be. 3PO is my favorite though, really liked how they gave him an actual arc. Fanservice? Maybe, but it's basically just answers, so that's the point.

Now I'm leaving the discussion to you (no talk about the leaks though, 'cause it's potential spoilers)… just remember, enjoy the movie and don't let yourself be influenced by the internet's opinion, but make your own opinion! 

 

[Jango]

Haven't seen the movie yet, but I heard people who had and they all confirmed that the Reddit leaked plot (from 3 freaking months ago!) was indeed legit...

Which is just awfull. I'll probably skip IMAX and 3D sessions and just watch the regular 2D session on a weak day when it's cheaper, because that plot is nothing short of a bad fan fic.

[Heckboy]

I don't care about Star Wars anymore, but this is honest to God one of the funniest things i've seen

 

 

[Solister]

I've seen the movie yesterday and I don't see the point why so many hated it, in fact I feel it was the best in the franchise for me and passes the Rogue One crown to it. I mean, with all respect, I feel someone pretty dumb to read leaks from the movie, specially if you're interested on the saga. And so on, I've doing inexplicable tricks to avoid spoilers in the past week and still today morning I've seen things by accident which would spoil the movie experience. And still then, I've feel there was also a majority acclaim of crowd in the theater.

Spoiler

I don't think I've found many problems in the movie, but I think the strongest thing which I've felt there was a huge creative fight between Rian Johnson and J.J. Abrams, so a few things said in TLJ were contradicted here, mainly (And thanks god 'cause that was my main hate over TLJ) which is bring back the real past and tradition of the Jedi. Once Luke was doing all for ignore Rey and now he really sees her as the last hope for the Resistance.

Rey being a Palpatine (And later being adopted as a Skywalker certainly was the movie biggest spoiler and highlight and a turnaround I even trying to create some theorizes couldn't match.

The second highlight for me in the movie, despite I know will be one of the most controversial and polemic scenes of the movie was when Han Solo back as a memory for Ben Solo. I mean, I guess that was just made to comfort and thanks Han Solo fanboys (Which I fit in) but certainly something unexpected. I've seen intense "promotion" for intensifying Mark Hamill appearance on the movie as well Billy Dee Williams which I expected more of their appearance on the movie, specially as the last one which I expected to do something like Han was in Episode VII.

Talking about VII, as well many may already know, I liked Episode VII, though a bit mediocre and hated Episode VIII. Something which also fits on Abrams vs. Johnson creative war.

Despite all this, something which really remarked here were the throwbacks for the other movies. Many references to past movies that only hardcore fans would get, even if a single line of the whole movie. The most memorable for me was "The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural", now present on both Episode III and IX. I feel there were also some missing opportunities and that was something which, for me, they could put the maximum references which I still wouldn't be satisfied. Though I missed one specific scene which would be way significant and one of the best moment of the franchise. As on the end of Return of the Jedi we had Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda as force ghosts (The heroes of the Prequel trilogy), would be very meaningful during the hug scene if they made Luke's and Leia's ghost alongside Han memory watching all of it, even if not interacting but above a tree or seeing them from the sky.

Last, something I've felt is that the TFA and ROS had a massive promotional campaign while TLJ seemed a bit "dead" with its release.

Guess this is my rank of the movies from best to worse:

Spoiler

1. Rise of Skywalker
2. Rogue One
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. A New Hope
6. The Force Awakens
7. Return of the Jedi
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Solo
10. The Last Jedi
11. Attack of the Clones

[Red Hot Jack]

13 hours ago, Heckboy said:

I don't care about Star Wars anymore, but this is honest to God one of the funniest things i've seen

 

 

This is even funnier, movies that critics hate, Star Wars fans seem to love and vice versa, as critics loved TLJ and fans hated it:

I'm glad the community is reacting well to it, it's honestly a solid movie despite pacing issues and other flaws. Finally something to redeem this trilogy.

Plus, it's not a flop, lol, in fact it's the 3rd best night preview after Endgame and Episode VII.

It's still early to say about box office, but still seems like JJ Abrams accomplished something impossible, make people love the ending to the saga. But of course it's not possible for everyone to like it, so if you disliked the movie it's really okay, I just don't think it's an objectively bad one this time, you should give it a chance if you are into the saga. It's definitely not a "trash fan fiction".

[Tarnish]

From what I hear, it's like a bad fan fiction from an 8 year old, with more plotholes than holes in swiss cheese.

But all the power to those who can just ignore these massive holes in logic and pretend they're not there.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

2 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

But all the power to those who can just ignore these massive holes in logic and pretend they're not there.

Well, if people could do that with Last Jedi, don't see why they wouldn't be able to do that with this movie.

Not that it means Episode 9 is anywhere near as bad as Episode 8 was anyway.

[Rabid-Coot]

6 hours ago, Jack in Space said:

Plus, it's not a flop, lol, in fact it's the 3rd best night preview after Endgame and Episode VII.

Its not a flop but you may have jumped the blaster a little there.

 

[GentlemanX]

Literally just got back from seeing it. I have no idea about relation the film has to leaks or what have you, I went into this pretty blind minus the trailers. I enjoyed the movie a lot actually, but it is a very, very, very flawed film; mostly on conceptual levels. The actual execution of the plot and it's characters are really well done I think, it's just that a lot of the decisions made probably in the early scripting phase are head scratching a good chunk of the time. Calling the film a sequel to The Last Jedi is actually debatable I think in certain regards. It certainly occurs after The Last Jedi and therefore continues where that film left off sequentially speaking, but the film has far more connections to The Force Awakens and even Return of the Jedi in terms of scope and content. I think Abrams took a look at what he had to work with - mixed to poor audience reception to The Last Jedi, Disney/Lucasfilm influence in light of that poor reception and the financial strafe of Solo, the circumstances of not only wrapping up the sequel trilogy but providing closure to the prequel and original trilogies as well, his own strengths and interests as a filmmaker being notably different than Johnson's style seen in The Last Jedi, etc. - and decided to try and tell the most entertaining capstone movie he could using those pieces.

The result is a trilogy that is almost schizophrenic in it's plot and themes, but a single film that's a solid popcorn action flick with enough talent and care to emotionally grip a veteran fan of the series. If you don't already love Star Wars, and I mean all of the movies not just these new ones, this movie probably isn't going to do it for you. Its focus first and foremost is in connecting to and wrapping up the rest of the series; it doesn't attempt to distinguish itself beyond that. If you're already in, you'll probably have a lot of fun and even have your heart break a couple of times. I imagine I'm going to mull the film over in the coming days if not weeks - and will probably see it again with a different group of people - so my opinions may change. But if you're a long time fan of the series that likes the cast from episodes VII and VIII, I encourage you to not put too much stock in the critical ratings and just see it yourself to come to your own conclusions.

[Badnik Zero]

So TLJ is controversial among fans for its treatment of Luke and refusal to follow with the movie before it, but this movie takes that last mistake and doubles down. The end result is a trilogy that course-corrects twice. That’s a reversal between every movie in the trilogy. How frustrating.

I’m starting to think that TLJ is the better movie out of the two, since the details of how JJ makes the plot walkbacks work just don’t add up even when compared to Force Awakens, which is his own movie. At least TLJ looked nice from a filmmaking point of view and has some memorable (if controversial) lines of dialogue. No lines in this movie stand out to me that are not at prequel levels of cheesiness. At least there will be memes from the fans. The philosophy here seems to be “bigger is better”, which results in an up scaling of force abilities that will affect the longevity of this franchise.

Also, the blatant shade being thrown at the previous movie is too much. Can we not fight in front of the kids, please, Rian and JJ? To betray the plot once in TLJ was enough. This would have been better made if they stuck with the decisions made in TLJ, to at least produce a coherent trilogy. All three movies have a continuity that is loose at best.

They managed to write themselves into a corner, which is why we get this Lich King as the final threat of a disappointing three movies.

[Meta77]

Great film. Loved it way more than that mess of a film TLJ and the fact a lot of fans are enjoying it and critics are not basically shows that. The only issue i took with the film is how much they throw at you so fast. Does not ruin the film but i was like damn let me breath jj let me breath. Plus you could easily see he tried to brush  tlj under the rug.

[Red Hot Jack]

A lot of people say that it gives TLJ a fuck off, but actually it was TLJ who did it first with TFA, so it's only fair imo. TFA and TROS are a lot more connected, but still TLJ I believe was needed in the end, TROS tries its best to make all of the trilogy flow well, you know, with Luke's Death, Snoke's identity, Rey's identity, Leia's ending, the interaction between Rey and Kylo, plus Ben's journey. The beginning is way too fast paced and could have been worked better, that's for sure, but I enjoyed seeing one last adventure with Rey, Finn, Poe, 3PO and Chewie plus BB8, they make a great team. I just feel like there should have been more consequences and less fake outs, but  still there was plenty of Death and pay-offs so I'm not complaining. The final act was so epic, I need to rewatch the Rey vs Kylo Ren fights but I enjoyed those as well. And the ending scene is perfect IMO.

[Tails spin]

Haven’t seen the movie but heard opinions and reviews. Do you guys think this should have been a two parter? Seems like it should have been from what I’ve read

[Solister]

50 minutes ago, Tails spin said:

Haven’t seen the movie but heard opinions and reviews. Do you guys think this should have been a two parter? Seems like it should have been from what I’ve read

Yeah, one of the most arguments against the movie is how hurried it is. Being a 2 part movie could solve this problem, though it would have been completely unnecessary if this new trilogy have at least been well planned. The same I say for the prequels, as Episode I is ok/mediocre while II is terrible and adds nearly nothing to the history and Episode III as IX is a complete hurry trying to fit in a 2 hour movie.

But for a saga which never had this before, it definitely sounds strange. We can even say Rogue One is the part II of Episode III (Or, more likely, Episode IV is the 2nd part of RO), but here we are nearly talking about 2 completely different things.

Plus, I don't think I would (and many others) be ok on going to the theater twice to see a single story, much less pay twice for that damn mouse (Mickey/Disney). What actually many really wanted is that Star Wars finally came to a definitive end. As much as I love Star Wars and knew a new movie have been crap, I wouldn't feel good knowing I'm missing something.

[mayday2592]

I liked the film, thought it was flawed and a bit predictable though. Gotta agree the movie feels rushed in certain parts and the Emperor seemed shoehorned in. Also it seemed like the titles for this movie and the previous should have been swapped. Unless im missing something, The Rise of Skywalker title didn't make much sense.

[Plasme]

I hated it,

I'll spoil everything so using tags

Spoiler

I think the Last Jedi had flaws as a film but I really appreciated what they did with it. Rey being remarkable despite her lack of important ancestry, her recognition that Kylo couldn't be saved and closing the door on him metaphorically and Kylo's general desire to reform the FIrst Order.

Firstly, Rey being a Palpatine is so banal and obvious. I rolled my eyes when I saw that and it just completely ruined the message of the Last Jedi. I also found it hilarious that Palpatine had a family which was never referred to.

They did have one good avenue - to explore the darkness in Rey, something I think the Last Jedi didn't do well enough either. But aside from a few lip service scenes they didn't really explore it.

Secondly, I absolutely hate the romance between Rey and Kylo. In the Force Awakens and Last Jedi it's implied, but they make it clear Rey would never actually go for him and at the end of Last Jedi she realises he can't be redeemed and has to be dropped. But in Rise of Skywalker she just fawns over him, despite him trying to force her to his side and his general despotism. It's a bit dodgy ethically - the woman is expected to constanltly give the man chances until he repents with no clear sign he will.

His turn to the light side is totally contrived and Leia's baffling death scene is just cringey to me.

Thirdly, I hated the fanservice. Palpatine just being back with no real explanation was baffling - he's just been in that cave for decades? Most of the cameos felt like going through the motions. And some of the fan lip service was a bit dodgy I thought - they clearly had less Rose and Finn paired up with a black woman to deflect some of the racist blacklash, which comes off as a bit gross to me. 

I have many other problems, but that was my main one.

 

[Patticus]

On 12/20/2019 at 9:57 AM, Tarnish said:

From what I hear, it's like a bad fan fiction from an 8 year old, with more plotholes than holes in swiss cheese.

But all the power to those who can just ignore these massive holes in logic and pretend they're not there.

Maybe you should watch it before you cast judgment.

It's a divisive film, as just about every Star Wars film is. It needed another 10-30 minutes to set the pacing right, Fortnite should never have been gifted that opening line, Kelly Marie Tran was sidelined in an awful capitulation to the toxic "fans," the performances were on point for the most part, and new characters felt incredibly under-used given the caliber of the talent they got for them. It was an enjoyable ride, rhyming where it counted with prior films, but my feelings overall are mixed. I need time and repeat viewings.

Abrams did about as well as he could, but this one (and let's face it, both previous ones) should've been given to George Lucas, Dave Filoni, Jon Favreau, and Deborah Chow. I hold out hope that Lucas's Whills plot will be explored in a future Star Wars film series, and done justice to.

[Tarnish]

3 minutes ago, Patticus said:

Maybe you should watch it before you cast judgment.

Maybe one day I will, but it's nowhere near the top of my 'to do' list. For some reason, I'm not that interested in a sequel trilogy to a classic, beloved franchise by a multi-billion dollar corporation that wanted to make a trilogy not because it had an interesting, unique or fascinating story to tell, but because it wanted to milk their newly acquired toy for everything it's worth.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

25 minutes ago, Patticus said:

Fortnite should never have been gifted that opening line

Eh!? What the heck happened there???

 

26 minutes ago, Patticus said:

George Lucas, Dave Filoni, Jon Favreau, and Deborah Chow

I'm curious to the context of such a team.

[Patticus]

11 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

Maybe one day I will, but it's nowhere near the top of my 'to do' list. For some reason, I'm not that interested in a sequel trilogy to a classic, beloved franchise by a multi-billion dollar corporation that wanted to make a trilogy not because it had an interesting, unique or fascinating story to tell, but because it wanted to milk their newly acquired toy for everything it's worth.

Lucas had a story to tell, too, but he sold his company after making Star Wars stopped being fun.

Perhaps, instead of being so relentlessly unforgiving and needlessly negative, so-called "fans" should have treated the prequels as the kids movies they so obviously were, and not some stain on the cultural fabric of America, or some assault on the original trilogy.

[Tarnish]

15 minutes ago, Patticus said:

Perhaps, instead of being so relentlessly unforgiving and needlessly negative, so-called "fans" should have treated the prequels as the kids movies they so obviously were, and not some stain on the cultural fabric of America, or some assault on the original trilogy.

Or perhaps Disney could have treated the franchise with respect and not go with the "well, it's our IP now, so we can do whatever the hell we want with it, even if it doesn't make a lick of sense, use it as a tool to push our agendas and we'll just call the fans toxic if they don't obidiently consume and praise whatever we shovel out the door like good little consumers should" approach.

And we really need to stop with the "kids movies" defense, because that's just stupid. Because that implies kids movies are just totally random images in random order, with totally non-existent or braindead, broken narrative with absolutely nothing to say, instead of being something both kids and adults can both enjoy.

If they really wanted to change course/retool the franchise after the acquisition to be a "kids franchise", they should have never made a sequel trilogy. They should have started their own thing, not using any of the old characters, set it much later after episode 6. But by calling it a sequel trilogy, they clearly stated "Hey, old Star Wars fans, this is for you!".

[Patticus]

44 minutes ago, Nina Cortex Jovahexeon said:

Eh!? What the heck happened there???

If you've seen the opening crawl, a speech is referenced. The entire impetus of the film. It was only broadcast in Fortnite, as part of its TRoS celebration. A baffling and, frankly, nonsensical decision, that alienates everyone who isn't obsessed with that game. Whatever happened to YouTube? Or Battlefront 2? Or any other format?

Quote

I'm curious to the context of such a team.

George Lucas is the original visionary.

Dave Filoni is a large part of why Clone Wars, Rebels, Resistance and Mandalorian were so good. He's very likely second only to Lucas in his knowledge of the Star Wars universe, at least among those who are currently creating canon content for it, and his work is very highly regarded.

Jon Favreau is also involved in The Mandalorian, and I have the utmost confidence in his ability as a result.

Deborah Chow is heading up the new Obi-Wan Disney+ series, and she's directed two episodes of Mandalorian, alongside episodes of American Gods, The Man In The High Castle, and other shows. She also had a cameo in Mandalorian alongside Filoni as an X-Wing pilot.

Everybody is concerned about George Lucas going it alone like he did with the prequels - but if he had a team of this caliber working with him on writing, direction, etc, moderating his excesses, then I don't see how it could fail. They've all got proven track records working together, they wouldn't all need to be involved all of the time, but they're the Dream Team as far as I'm concerned.

29 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

Or perhaps Disney could have treated the franchise with respect and not go with the "well, it's our IP now, so we can do whatever the hell we want with it, even if it doesn't make a lick of sense, use it as a tool to push our agendas and we'll just call the fans toxic if they don't obidiently consume and praise whatever we shovel out the door like good little consumers should" approach.

It's Disney. It doesn't have "respect" for anything, it does whatever it can to further its market dominance and make money - hence the glut of live action remakes, many of them shoddy.

This is what happens when toxic fans ruin things for the creator of the thing they claim to love, and lead him to selling up. Nobody will do it like they did, particularly if they decide to ignore most of their suggestions and ideas afterwards, as Abrams and Kennedy did. Thankfully, several elements of Lucas's original sequel trilogy did make it through to the new films, but in my view, not enough.

Kennedy's getting the boot now, though, it seems.

And FYI, the toxic "fans" are the ones who (loudly) feel the compulsion to make others not be able to enjoy watching (or making) the films, be they prequels or sequels. They're the ones who chased KMT off social media. They're the ones who ruin good things for others.

Quote

And we really need to stop with the "kids movies" defense, because that's just stupid. Because that implies kids movies are just totally random images in random order, with totally non-existent or braindead, broken narrative with absolutely nothing to say, instead of being something both kids and adults can both enjoy.

Kids and adults enjoy the new Star Wars films, as I do. I was a kid when the prequels came out, and I both understood and enjoyed them too. I have very mixed emotions about what Disney, Abrams, Johnson and Kennedy have created, but I think you're mis-characterizing the new movies. Yes, even TRoS - it's a frenetic film,in desperate need of a Director's Cut with half an hour of additional content that slows up the pace a bit, and provides more depth to new characters and old, but it isn't to my mind what you describe.

29 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

If they really wanted to change course/retool the franchise after the acquisition to be a "kids franchise", they should have never made a sequel trilogy. They should have started their own thing, not using any of the old characters, set it much later after episode 6. But by calling it a sequel trilogy, they clearly stated "Hey, old Star Wars fans, this is for you!".

It was always a film series for children. All of the films were made with kids in mind first and foremost. That isn't to say that there aren't elements that people of all ages can enjoy, or that adults can appreciate more, but these were always kids movies, and it's important that we all remember that.

[Tarnish]

24 minutes ago, Patticus said:

It was always a film series for children. All of the films were made with kids in mind first and foremost.

Showing dead bodies burned on the ground, arms and hands getting cut off and clearly shown on the ground, cutting up animals to seek warmth in their guts, getting 'frozen' alive, blowing up entire planets, showing people die left, right and centre...so I guess the original Terminator movies were just kids movies as well.

[Patticus]

16 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Showing dead bodies burned on the ground, arms and hands getting cut off and clearly shown on the ground, cutting up animals to seek warmth in their guts, getting 'frozen' alive, blowing up entire planets, showing people die left, right and centre...so I guess the original Terminator movies were just kids movies as well.

Do, please, tell me what rating the films have. Because I saw the OT in the theater when I was 9 with zero issues. Being a kids movie series doesn't necessitate pink fluffiness everywhere with no death - dark themes, when explored appropriately and suited to the story being told, can absolutely enrich kids movies.

[Rabid-Coot]

36 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

just call the fans toxic

If they're spending 2 years moaning about a film maybe they deserve the label.