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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Official Thread (Spoilers in tag)

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7 minutes ago, Patticus said:

Do, please, tell me what rating the films have. Because I saw the OT in the theater when I was 9 with zero issues. Being a kids movie series doesn't necessitate pink fluffiness everywhere with no death.

Maybe, but what they considered 'kids movies' then and what they consider 'kids movies' now, I doubt they're still the same. And my point still stands that just because it's a kids movie doesn't mean it's fine to have it littered with plotholes and inconsistencies by the dozens.

5 minutes ago, Rabid-Coot said:

If they're spending 2 years moaning about a film maybe they deserve the label.

1: I thought studios want feedback from the fans.

2: I bet they would have no problem if people were constantly praising them for 2 years nonstop.

3: That's a bit ironic to read on a Sonic forum.

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To try and keep this post short and not go into too many things, I'll say that I did enjoy this film for the most part. Wasn't anything I'd necessarily call great but it definitely ain't near the worst thing this series has put out.

The main gripe I had with it was the pacing (mainly in the first half). The film just felt like it had a constant need to introduce new plot points and characters without even explaining them fully. Hell, even a decent portion of the main cast don’t get a lot to do here. It really did just feel like they were trying to solve all the story problems fans had with TLJ while also trying to tell the story J.J. had for the trilogy in one single film. Just made for a movie that felt crowded at the end of it all.

With that being said, most of the plot points were interesting/ fun to me and fell in line with what had already been hinted at in the previous movies. Like others have mentioned, there were some points (like Palpatine's return) that I had wish they had gone a bit more in depth with as it did come out of no where, but I'd honestly be lying if I had said it took me out of the film. Add in the killer effects, great soundtrack, and the usual fun moments these films are known for and... what can I say? I had a good time with it.

Though I guess one should take this with a grain of salt as I'm really not the biggest Star Wars fan. Hell, up until TFA, most of my involvement with the series was through my friend's chatter about it and the random school supplies I'd use with the character's faces plastered on them. I feel as though my views on this series in general are rather low overall so maybe that's why I never really get heated over this current line of films like others do? idk

 

But, side not, there are a lot of opinions regarding this series that I could care less about. It seems like, with every movie, the general opinion landscape changes so it's whatever. Though, one hot take that I'll never get behind is this notion that the series suddenly became more about product sales and merchandising once Disney stepped in. It's like these people weren't around during the prequel releases. Like lol, I was able to piece together the series through cheap dollar store figurines, juice boxes, and gd pencil cases; y'all can miss me with that one.

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8 hours ago, Tarnish said:

1: I thought studios want feedback from the fans.

2: I bet they would have no problem if people were constantly praising them for 2 years nonstop.

3: That's a bit ironic to read on a Sonic forum.

1: Feedback is fine but there is a point where it becomes an unhealthy obsession.

2: If it was praise I bet people would have moved on to something else quickly.

3: True  our fandom has had many issues with many things but our relativly small size does mean more time off in between complaints.

4: I admit I am biased on toxic fandom issue due to living with someone that spends way too much time watching certain youtubers and then insisting on talking about whatever thing is their talking point of the moment.

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I felt it was good. It did the best with what it could do. Certain mirrors worked, others not so much - especially in the final act. Rey/Kylo/Palpatine stuff - excellent. The fleet battle - too fast and only felt like it was there because it had to be to mirror Return of the Jedi rather than being anything important. Sure, the Sith Fleet was shown from the start as something to be feared. But there was very little in the way of a clear narrative to the battle. Overall, a fun film that felt it was trying to be too films in one.

And to raise a point from earlier in the thread. The Last jedi might have gone against what The Force Awakens set up, but at no point did it feel as in-your-face about it as Rise of Skywalker to Last Jedi.

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TLJ was an extremely well constructed film, with solidly written and realistic female characters, a story that challenged the characters and forced them to learn hard lessons, a beautiful rhyme of the TCW Mortis arc that expertly paved the way for the end of TRoS. It had several great messages (articulated succinctly by Yoda and Rose) and iconic sequences, and the best use of fan service in the new trilogy. It was both thoughtful and thought provoking, pacifistic to the end, and despite its pace being slower than TFA and TRoS, it was still highly watchable, with excellent cinematography and iconic scenes throughout. It also has the best lightsaber duel, involving no physical contact at all, establishing forever Luke's bonafides as a true Jedi Master.

Rian Johnson deserves to be involved in the future of the franchise, alongside Favreau, Filoni, Chow and others. He is fantastic.

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Overall I thought that "TROS" was great, but the final 15 minutes at the end were slightly disappointing. (I wanted to see both Ben Solo and Rey surviving and getting married.)

But on the other hand, if the ending was too happy and sappy then it wouldn't feel like an authentic story about war. Every true war story has cruel tragedies even if there's an ultimate victory to be celebrated at the end. Lovers aren't guaranteed to be reunited survivors after a battle.

Perhaps the only real valid complaint which I can think of is that instead of  being called "Rise Of Skywalker" the movie should've been called something like "Deceptive Vengeance" with reference to Palpatine's secret clever plan. I bet that this way there would be a lot less angry viewers because the title would not be misleading them to expect the things that will not happen.

On the positive side, it was good to finally discover who Snoke was and who Rey really is. And it was also good to see a flashback scene where Luke was training Leia, because this fixes the plothole from Episode8 where Leia was seen using the Force to glide through the void of space towards the airlock of a Resistance spaceship. 

Speaking of Episode 8, I never had any problem with Luke's death at all. In fact, I was actually expecting him to die in that movie before I even went to go see it. And I have zero complaints about how he died. I mean, he unlocked a tremendous new Force ability which no previous Jedi Masters before him were ever strong enough to achieve, so of course it would be natural that he over-exerted himself and pushed his body to its limits, especially at that extremely old age.

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Just wanna say we really should seperate the "Kids movie" and "For all ages" movie category. One for something that clearly won't attract an adults attention, and one which will. Like Star Wars I say is for everyone and appeals to all ages. While something like Barney or Blues Clues is clearly really only made for children and not at all for an adult.

I'd love to give a full review but I refuse to pay for this travesty of a trilogy after the Last Jedi. Everything I have read and seen in clips online as well as heard talked about over several discussions sounds awful. The only way I'd ever care about this era is if David Filoni got like a television series between TLJ and ROS and could basically do what Clone Wars did for the Prequels.

The Force Awakens lightsaber battle wasn't that bad, pretty alright even but what the hell happened in Rise of Skywalker? I saw a clip of a full fight and jeez it's like watching a basement fight between children and foam weaponry. Where's the forms? Stances? Proper guards? Counter reposts? Technique?

Seriously even can't get the basic swing to guard end position right. Instead lightsabers are baseball bats and they randomly decide to reverse grip and swing widely like morons. Who choreographed this and thought it was ok?

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I'm not a huge SW fan, but I enjoy this universe and what-not. I saw TROS yesterday. Film's pretty corny and badly writen, but it's entertaining. But hey, that's basically what SW always was. But honestly, this one takes the cake. It has the biggest ass-pull twists and corny scenes ever in the franchise, alongside the many under used characters and unjustified returns.

I didn't bought Palpatine's return was "planned from the beggining" talk before, and I'm buying it even less now lol 

Rogue One still the best by a wiiiiide margin IMO. Not surprisingly, it's the least SW movie of them all 🤷‍♂️

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A huge pet peeve of mine is that bringing back Palpatine completely messes up the idea of Anakin being the chosen one destined to destroy the Sith. I mean, if Palpatine survived, then what did Anakin/Vader actually accomplish when he "killed" Palpatine? This was always a pet peeve of mine with the old expanded universe, and I was glad that it could be recitified with the Disney reboot, but then they just went ahead and made the exact same mistake...

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On 12/25/2019 at 9:18 AM, batson said:

A huge pet peeve of mine is that bringing back Palpatine completely messes up the idea of Anakin being the chosen one destined to destroy the Sith.

In RotS, Yoda suggests that the much-vaunted prophecy (which is apparently revealed in the recently released prequel novel, Master & Apprentice) has been misread. It's now thought that he did bring balance to the Force - in the Mortis arc of TCW, which is referenced in his one TRoS line ("Bring balance, as I did.").

Quote

I mean, if Palpatine survived, then what did Anakin/Vader actually accomplish when he "killed" Palpatine? This was always a pet peeve of mine with the old expanded universe, and I was glad that it could be recitified with the Disney reboot, but then they just went ahead and made the exact same mistake...

He saved his son from the possession Palpatine threatened Rey with, some are now saying. That's why Vader met Luke's lightsaber with his own when Palpatine goaded him into attacking. He also bought time, I suppose. Time necessary for a new generation of Jedi to emerge. But when it did, Luke sensed Palpatine's influence over Ben, misreading it as the puppet Snoke (because nobody knew he hadn't been fully vanquished), reacted instinctively, and the New Jedi Order fell again.

I don't think Palps was necessary. A far more interesting story would have seen the ascendant Kylo Ren enthroned and that conflict between him and Rey playing out on their own terms. But we got what we got, which ironically was one of the excuses Disney/Kathleen Kennedy gave for erasing the old EU, and it works in its own way.

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My major gripe about this trilogy is that all of the best parts of the story seem to happen off screen. Luke has an academy, and one of his pupils falls to the dark side? Why not show that kind of thing on screen, for fucks sake. Despondent, failed Luke is actually a great concept, but not when it forces him to appear in only one movie of the trilogy. This just goes to show that TLJ is not necessarily bad, as it is jarring. If anything, Rian Johnson should have been given the first movie of the trilogy, if he was going to run with such new ideas. By switching gears in the second film, it stops the momentum of the trilogy. And that’s my second gripe, that the trilogy has no direction. When the second film throws the first one out of the window, and the third film disrespects the second openly, only the audience loses. Who the hell at Lucasfilm was in charge of stopping the pissing contest between directors? Well, at least the Mandalorian will be on for another few years.

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https://www.metacritic.com/movie/star-wars-episode-ix---the-rise-of-skywalker/critic-reviews?dist=negative

https://www.metacritic.com/movie/star-wars-episode-ix---the-rise-of-skywalker/critic-reviews?dist=neutral

Huh, looks like both the critics and overall audience agree TRoS is bleh. Heh, looks like the overall audience has better taste than I thought.

13 hours ago, Badnik Zero said:

My major gripe about this trilogy is that all of the best parts of the story seem to happen off screen. Luke has an academy, and one of his pupils falls to the dark side? Why not show that kind of thing on screen, for fucks sake. Despondent, failed Luke is actually a great concept, but not when it forces him to appear in only one movie of the trilogy.

The parts in TLJ dealing with Luke and Kylo are still the best within the sequel trilogy. They weren't shamelessly aping nostalgia (best represented by the ridiculous decision to bring Palpatine back and not even try to be subtle about it complete with making him behind Snoke all along). They were lower scaled rather than facing another empire with planet destroying superweapons.

The sequel trilogy ultimately failed since they fell into the trap of thinking they needed to one-up their predecessors rather than just find a loose tangent and build on it. And I think that rooted in how neither the consumers or Abrams actually get Star Wars (it's not a sci-fi war movie, it's a fairy tale in space).

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The sequel trilogy was a blind overreaction to the hate that the prequel movies received. But despite the issues the prequels had (wooden acting, poor dialogue, slight overemphasis on politics), the story they told was solid, coherent, and had heart, which are things TRoS lacks. TFA and TLJ work well together and are both fine Star Wars films, but the trilogy as a whole is a mess, because of the lack of a Marvel-/Lucas-style framework and guiding visionary. This feels like the result of the exclusion of Lucas, or someone who could represent his vision just as well, like Favreau, or Filoni.

But the sequels are made and, beyond reinserting some cut dialogue scenes to slow up the pacing in places and restore Rose Tico's place, there's very little to be done now but grudgingly accept them.

A new SW film is to be announced in 2020. Directors (and others) who should be considered for future films, I think, must include: Dave Filoni, Deborah Chow, Taika Waititi (for Solo 2 please), Jon Favreau, Rian Johnson, George Lucas, Ron Howard, and Tony Gilroy (who re-shot Rogue One). I'm open to others, of course, but these people should be considered at least. Taika, especially, as I think he'd rock a Solo sequel. But most important is setting up the framework for any new series of films, working out and agreeing on story arcs before production begins, allowing each director the room to do what they want without actively interfering with other directors' work, and generally ensuring that the films aren't overreactions to previous efforts, within or without the immediate series.

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I really believe that a trilogy that stuck to corruption within the Republic and/or Jedi (complete with Leia falling into darkness as things go downwards) combined with hunting the Empire's insurgents (who indeed only have the abilities of insurgents so no planet destroying superweapons) and apologists. Play to what if anything TLJ and Rogue One did well (smaller scale, more focus on home-grown societal problems rather than the empire being meanies).

In other words go all KotOR 2:

 

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Rather have a solid Old Republic series that incorporates Legends. We all know that nothing that movie makers could come up with could outdo, let alone match, what the many men of Legends did (especially KotOR 2).

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https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2487554/why-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalkers-writer-wishes-it-was-split-into-two-movies

So even Chris Terio, the writer has said outright that this movie should have been split into multiple movies.

The more we learn about Rise if Skywalker, the more it seems that executive meddling was at play involving some of this movie's more infamous things in addressing Last Jedi's problems.

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7 hours ago, Nina Cortex Jovahexeon said:

That's quite some wishful thinking, considering how Solo bombed to the point of other spin-off movies being cancelled or turned into tv series.

That was the studio's fault, maybe Kathleen Kennedy, for messing up the release date. It was a good movie, not amazing, but far from being in any way bad, and didn't deserve to bomb.

I have hope that KK's successor (assuming she does lose her job) will look at Solo, Deep Fake Harrison Ford into it...

... re-release it in an off year, then bring us Solo 2 with Taika at the helm, followed by a Taika-lead Lando TV series starring Donald Glover.

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I saw The Rise of Skywalker.

It was an incredibly safe and weirdly reactionary movie, doing everything it can to shit all over everything great about The Last Jedi, rewriting everything from character motivations to the literal plot just to be Abrams-kun's amayyyyyzing stupid remake of Return of the Jedi. An utterly unchallenging, downright mediocre insult to fans of the previous film, and as close as I've ever come to being a rat-fuck meatheaded TLJ "objective quality" hater.

And honestly? It was a great time. I liked it a lot. It was exciting, probably one of the most colorful Star Wars movies ever, and never broke pace. As lame as I think it is, I can't say I wan't enjoying the hell out of myself at the theater. It was the cheapest, most corporate and pandering Star Wars has ever been and I felt like a little kid seeing A New Hope for the first time. It hit me emotionally in a way that an actually good Star Wars movie might not have. Though TLJ was one of those and it resonated with me, so I guess JJ can just go fuck himself.

5/10, Highly Recommended.

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This movie was so bad. How depressing coming off of The Last Jedi, the best Star Wars movie.

God awful pacing, never a moment to let things breathe, the stupid, awful twists, the lazy retconning of TLJ, the constant shoving in the face of Poe definitely not being gay, guys, really!, Finn's complete uselessness, Finn wanting to tell Rey he loved her right before dying, but he actually wanted to tell her he's force sensitive which definitely fit the way he acted about what he wanted to tell her (I'm not saying its bullshit about them saying he's Force sensitive, which was hinted at pretty heavily throughout this movie), Palpatine, Anakin's lightsaber, the fakeout deaths, the awkward implementation of Leia, Chewie getting a medal, Luke, Luke's smile at the camera after lifting the X-Wing.

But what really makes me angry is the way the bent over for the sexist shitbag Nazis and reduced Rose's role to less than 2 minutes of screentime. Way to do exactly what all the people that harassed Kellie Marie Tran wanted. The other stuff was just bad movie stuff (Well, maybe not the "No Homo" stuff with Poe), but this honestly kind of disgusted me. She should've just been travelling with Rey, Finn and Poe.

I liked some stuff such as Babu Frik and (Ending spoilers)

Spoiler

Rey getting a yellow Lightsaber, as it's my favorite color for a Lightsaber.

She should've gotten it much earlier in the movie, though. Anakin's should've never appeared.

On 1/1/2020 at 1:36 AM, Nina Cortex Jovahexeon said:

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2487554/why-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalkers-writer-wishes-it-was-split-into-two-movies

So even Chris Terio, the writer has said outright that this movie should have been split into multiple movies.

The more we learn about Rise if Skywalker, the more it seems that executive meddling was at play involving some of this movie's more infamous things in addressing Last Jedi's problems.

It's not just the studio. Abrams and Terrio didn't have to write something that didn't fit into one movie.

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The New Trilogy was doomed since rather than do what Legends did and try to move on from the Empire/Sith they just fell into the trap of just following comic book rules of the villain endlessly coming back with no signs of getting impeded.

Frankly, a more interesting trilogy would've focused on the galaxy being in a state like Europe post-Roman Empire. With Leia falling into darkness (perhaps after terrorists sympathetic to the Empire kill off Han) and talking her little boy into helping her. Something like with what happened with Jacen Solo in Legends.

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48 minutes ago, Almar said:

The New Trilogy was doomed since rather than do what Legends did and try to move on from the Empire/Sith they just fell into the trap of just following comic book rules of the villain endlessly coming back with no signs of getting impeded.

Frankly, a more interesting trilogy would've focused on the galaxy being in a state like Europe post-Roman Empire. With Leia falling into darkness (perhaps after terrorists sympathetic to the Empire kill off Han) and talking her little boy into helping her. Something like with what happened with Jacen Solo in Legends.

Yeah, I'll admit the scene 

Spoiler

with the flashback to Leia doing Jedi training with Luke 

is what's starting to tick me off now looking back. That was a glimpse of what we should've goten looking again.

If they really wanted to tend towards fans nostalgia with the old trilogy, maybe we'd be better off if it started just after ROTJ instead of the skipping straght to the timeskip thing. That way they could be allowed to spend more time letting the old characters do new things, instead of wasting time making new characters that do old things.

You wouldn't get with rehasing the original films as easily, when your new saga already stars the old heroes that went through two superweapon plots already. And then with each passing we could skip ahead gradually and slowly add in some of the newer stuff, and by the end of the 9th episode it'll have a more proper passing the torch moment for the new characters. You know how people been making edits to the prequels to make them just one film? The same could be said for the sequels; just have the imaginary tenth episode just put all the stuff that did work in the new films into one. But I'll still come to terms with the reality here.

 

For me, it won't matter to much whether they make this a one off film or a 12 episode TV series. Just once, I'd like to see the old rebel band have one more adventure together- like an ultra loose adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy and others, while squeezing in a few inevitable setups to the new trilogy we have with Ben and such. That's all it'll really take me to feel fully happy with the saga we have and carry on. But I'll assume this is too heavy of request for now, and I'll still carry on peacefully.

 

On 12/31/2019 at 7:44 PM, Patticus said:

Deep Fake Harrison Ford into it...

 

You do know people were weirded out when they deepfaked Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher's likenesses into Rogue One, right?

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36 minutes ago, Marcello said:

This movie was so bad. How depressing coming off of The Last Jedi, the best Star Wars movie.

God awful pacing, never a moment to let things breathe, the stupid, awful twists, the lazy retconning of TLJ, the constant shoving in the face of Poe definitely not being gay, guys, really!, Finn's complete uselessness, Finn wanting to tell Rey he loved her right before dying, but he actually wanted to tell her he's force sensitive which definitely fit the way he acted about what he wanted to tell her (I'm not saying its bullshit about them saying he's Force sensitive, which was hinted at pretty heavily throughout this movie), Palpatine, Anakin's lightsaber, the fakeout deaths, the awkward implementation of Leia, Chewie getting a medal, Luke, Luke's smile at the camera after lifting the X-Wing.

But what really makes me angry is the way the bent over for the sexist shitbag Nazis and reduced Rose's role to less than 2 minutes of screentime. Way to do exactly what all the people that harassed Kellie Marie Tran wanted. The other stuff was just bad movie stuff (Well, maybe not the "No Homo" stuff with Poe), but this honestly kind of disgusted me. She should've just been travelling with Rey, Finn and Poe.

I liked some stuff such as Babu Frik and (Ending spoilers)

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Rey getting a yellow Lightsaber, as it's my favorite color for a Lightsaber.

She should've gotten it much earlier in the movie, though. Anakin's should've never appeared.

It's not just the studio. Abrams and Terrio didn't have to write something that didn't fit into one movie.

My feelings exactly. TROS takes a lot of the stuff people complained about in TLJ and doubles down, not to mention all the rushed plot in itself, awkward retconnecting and corny / awfull twists... I don't get the folks who talk shit about TLJ saying TROS is better. It's not even more visually appealing (TLJ has some gorgeous visuals, the final battle in the salt planet speaks for itself).

If I had one word to describe this movie is: coward.

Can we move on from the Skywalkers once and for all, tho'? 

I swear to God if Rey is pregnant of Ben...

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