Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Official Thread (Spoilers in tag)

[Almar]

The Last Jedi had problems. As did the other movies in the New Trilogy.

TLJ at least gave the illusion of maybe pretending it had something to do other than doing the Old Trilogy 2.0. (no doubt in part rooted at the backlash against the prequels).

[Milo]

I saw the movie last Thursday, and the main thing going on in my mind once the movie ended was "...what the heck even was that story and that plotline?"

Like I said in the status updates, I spent my dinner that evening writing down notes about the movie, specifically the script. The writing just feels....so slapdash, it's somewhat befuddling to me. Pre-emptive fandom disclaimer incoming that I'm only vaguely familiar (and haven't watched in full, only clips) with the OT, haven't seen the PT or Solo, I found R1 okay; and despite their problems, I generally like both TFA and TLJ.

- The general plot feels like an early script or draft of some ideas, that at best needed a lot more refinement/development at best, and at worst should had been completely rewritten more than once. In concerns to the past films, very little carries over from TLJ storywise. I know some people aren't fans of what TLJ did with the plot and characters as a sequel to TFA, but I do feel that TLJ did at least make the effort to do something with them; whereas TROS feels like they virtually dropped the vast majority of developments like a bad case of malaria. Not even consciously rewriting or contradicting it, but just outright ignoring them like they never happened. From there, the few concepts that are carried over from TLJ are used to introduce new plotpoints that feel completely thrown in out of nowhere. There's not any existing development to these properties (or even any real hints towards their existence) in even TFA, let alone TLJ, so --for me-- the end result is that these new properties doesn't really feel meaningful to the broader narrative. Some of these concepts/plot elements also feel entirely throwaway, or ultimately inconsequential to the broader narrative either.

The resulting mold of this movie feels like this was a conclusion to a somewhat different version of the sequel trilogy that might exist in maybe some parallel dimension, but doesn't exist here. And for me that absolutely hurts the film overall in terms of the emotional beats they have, because most of them to me don't feel earned at all, and instead feel forced/mechanically inserted.

- Beyond issues with the overarching handling of the narrative and plot, the dialogue here feels like its trying way too hard to have witty banter between its characters, it doesn't really fit the existing relationships/personalities the characters have and instead feels like they were crammed in with a crowbar. It feels like the type of script people would write and accuse Marvel movies --and blockbusters following in their ilk-- of being (partially as a joke, but also partially as a genuine complaint). There's also one or two points in the story with Rey that I feel she performs certain actions done strictly to take the story where the writers wanted it to go. I imagine with better writing this could had been handled well, but here it goes against common sense to the point that it feels blatant. The story/screenplay overall just feel amateurish, slammed together without the necessary skill/talent to make it work. 

- Again, I haven't really watched anything with the OT, but I am familiar with certain scenes and certain elements from them to recognize when they're being references or called back towards. And in this particular point (nostalgia, being derivative, fanservice, et al.) it feels like Abrams and the rest of the writers doubled down on this (despite having been criticized for this for a fair amount of his movies). For me it's bizarre, with the film not only doing parallels to certain concepts from RotJ, it feels like it even verbatim copies elements from the immediate past movies in TFA and TLJ. It feels super indulgent overall.

- Moving away from the writing, I did feel that the action scenes weren't as strong as those from TLJ and TFA. There were some good bits, but I felt the general execution could had been better. The editing I felt was also a mixed bag to me, with some transitions and incorporation of settings really well-done; but the first-third of the film also having really awkward, jarring cuts between scenes.

From here I do have some positives about the film. While the locations are conceptually familiar to what we have seen before, I do feel the settings and the cinematography of the film are both beautifully done, as are the visual effects. Some of the concepts done with the movie I do also like, albeit with the caveat that it did make me wish that they were paired with a better screenplay. The cast I feel generally give passable performances (I don't think anyone here is outright bad, they're doing the best they can with the script); although I do feel Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine was able to do more with his role and thus give more of a memorable performance. Likewise, I feel the same with the music (it didn't really grab me, but it didn't stick out as terrible either. I don't want to be too harsh here as I do also feel I haven't really paid much attention to the scores of these movies either).

For me, the best, if not only good scene in the movie in terms of writing was the immediate aftermath of Princess Leia's death, namely with the effect it has on the cast (or at least, Rey, Ben, and Chewbacca) and how they reconcile with each other. It is the only sequence in the movie that narrative-wise felt like a meaningful continuation from TFA/TLJ, and they consequently were able to provide a few emotional moments that were genuinely heartfelt. I wouldn't be surprised if this scene (or the base concept of that scene) was actually written well in advance by a different group of writers before the script to Episode XI we eventually got.

Overall I wouldn't say I hate or even strongly dislike the movie, but it just feels like that was something that came and went. It doesn't really feel like an ending to a saga in any capacity; and in comparison to other film releases of 2019 that I've seen, has easily the weakest writing of them all. In terms of ratings, I'd honestly say this is at the lower end of a rental.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

13 hours ago, Almar said:

TLJ at least gave the illusion of maybe pretending it had something to do other than doing the Old Trilogy 2.0. (no doubt in part rooted at the backlash against the prequels).

Didn't stop it from still being guilty of blatantly mooching bits from Episodes 5 and 6.

[MetalSkulkBane]

You know what makes me laugh most about Sequel Trilogy?

Spoiler

Ep 7: Here's Kylo Ren, he's evil and he's about to reform....NOT! Haha, gotcha.
Ep 8: And now he talks with Rey and betrays his master and is about to reform.... NOT, BAHAHA, you fall for it again.

Ep 9:.... Kylo Ren reforms. For reals. I'm not even entirely sure why.

 

[Tarnish]

20 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

You know what makes me laugh most about Sequel Trilogy?

  Hide contents

Ep 7: Here's Kylo Ren, he's evil and he's about to reform....NOT! Haha, gotcha.
Ep 8: And now he talks with Rey and betrays his master and is about to reform.... NOT, BAHAHA, you fall for it again.

Ep 9:.... Kylo Ren reforms. For reals. I'm not even entirely sure why.

 

I'm still wondering why he killed Snoke when he stayed a bad guy after that...just to impress Rey?

[MetalSkulkBane]

2 hours ago, Tarnish said:

I'm still wondering why he killed Snoke when he stayed a bad guy after that...just to impress Rey?

Sith kill each other, that's how they get "promotion".

There can only be 2 sith: master and padawan. If you want someone's job, you ax him.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

23 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

You know what makes me laugh most about Sequel Trilogy?

Spoiler

Ep 7: Here's Kylo Ren, he's evil and he's about to reform....NOT! Haha, gotcha.
Ep 8: And now he talks with Rey and betrays his master and is about to reform.... NOT, BAHAHA, you fall for it again.

Ep 9:.... Kylo Ren reforms. For reals. I'm not even entirely sure why.

 

Honestly, it comes off as trying to appease the fans who just wanted a

Spoiler

Kylo Ren redemption without any consideration for the fact that he's the Star Wars version of an unrepentant Neo Nazi, aping Darth Vader without taking the character arc Vader went through in the Prequels and Original Trilogy into consideration.

 

[Tarnish]

7 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Sith kill each other, that's how they get "promotion".

There can only be 2 sith: master and padawan. If you want someone's job, you ax him.

Dunno if that was meant as a joke or a legit explanation. That was never shown in any of the main-line Star Wars movies as far as I can recall. Darth Maul was put on 50% discount by Obi-Wan, and Count Dooku was sort of 'sacrificed' so Darth Sidious can have Anakin as his brand spanking new padawan. This would mark the first time a padawan wants to kill their master in order to take their place, and I never got the feeling Kylo was ever even contemplating doing that. It was just out of the blue.

[Jango]

Kylo should've been the ultimate villain of TROS, not Palp. It would've been better than giving everybody the mental image of Palpatine having sex halfway through the movie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also yeah, the movie expecting the public to piece together main story bits and lore from games, books and other spin-off media is bad. A lot of this movie makes no sense, stuff happens " just coz' ".

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

33 minutes ago, Jango said:

Also yeah, the movie expecting the public to piece together main story bits and lore from games, books and other spin-off media is bad. A lot of this movie makes no sense, stuff happens " just coz' ".

It's a problem with this entire sequel trilogy indeed.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

On 1/1/2020 at 12:36 AM, Nina Cortex Jovahexeon said:

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2487554/why-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalkers-writer-wishes-it-was-split-into-two-movies

So even Chris Terio, the writer has said outright that this movie should have been split into multiple movies.

The more we learn about Rise if Skywalker, the more it seems that executive meddling was at play involving some of this movie's more infamous things in addressing Last Jedi's problems.

I'm late to this, but would this really have made much of a difference? 

I mean sure, poor pacing seems to be the crux of an issue here, but TROS has so many many more problems that are directly in the core of the film that spreading it out wouldn't fix much at all, beyond giving everything more time to breath. You'd still have the ridiculous retconning of everything TLJ tried to set up, causing it to make both TFA and TLJ feel pointless. You'd still have the near-fanficy nature of the plot still fully present, you'd still have the total repeating of the OT. I legitimately don't see how this would've fixed anything because the pacing is only one part of the issue, when the entire film in of itself is filled with consistently ridiculous nonsense, only existing to either repeat the OT for the sake of pointless nostalgia pandering, or mock and retcon the things TLJ tried to do differently.

What's even more silly about the whole situation is that a good chunk of the problems from this movie seems to be direct consequences of trying to stupidly retcon some of the very few decent stuff TLJ successfully did - 

Spoiler

Namely, showing that Rey's parents weren't really anyone important at all, and setting up Rey as a wild card more than anything else, as opposed to Anakin/Luke, who were the chosen ones destined to bring balance to the force, and the universe at large. 

Instead of running with such a huge idea that gives Rey something different from past protagonists in this series, and help make her feel less like a Mary-Sue, suddenly she's the granddaughter of Palpatine, giving this completely out of nowhere Palpatine who apparently found time to have a relationship and have a son/daughter either before the prequels, or during the prequels, who was somehow never mentioned, and this information just so happens to reveal itself as it's revealed Palpatine sith-magic'd himself back from the brink of death.

 

11 hours ago, Tarnish said:

I'm still wondering why he killed Snoke when he stayed a bad guy after that...just to impress Rey?

Spoiler

Not really. I think Kylo realised that Snoke was essentially a puppet-master pulling his strings, and Kylo wanted to prove himself by assuming control of the universe. He wanted Rey to join him in ruling the universe, so it seemed to be a twist on the Vader/Luke ruling the universe plot point from Empire.

Keeping in mind, that was a major motivator of Vader and Luke's fight. Vader wanted Luke to join him so through their combined power, they could easily kill Palpatine and rule as father and son. 

This is one of the other good twists TLJ had on the formula. Kylo basically wanted the same thing, him and Rey ruling as Emperor and Empress, built up by the rest of the movie by making it look like Rey was redeeming Kylo, when in actuality, Kylo was planning to turn Rey to the dark side.

His murder of Snoke only goes to show that. He used it to display his commitment and power to Rey, and how serious he was about the idea. Snoke just tried to kill Rey moments prior before Kylo helped her survive, displaying their teamwork, then he kills Snoke, placing himself into power, making it clear that he is the true ruler of the galaxy, and showing his genuine want for Rey to join him as empress, only to lose his shit when Rey runs for it, and Luke reappears in the finale.

It would've been so interesting to see this develop into the last movie, showing Kylo - not as the person who should be redeemed, but as the true evil of the galaxy that had to be stopped, despite having such a deep connection with the original cast, and with Rey. It's like if Darth Vader was the actual bad guy of Jedi, instead of Palpatine being the true big bad, and Vader is redeemed in the end. Kylo could have been the greatest twist by actually legitimately being the proper big bad, what happens when someone is truly corrupted, and unable to go back, but they changed it for the sake of a Rey/Kylo ship, and bringing back Palpatine because we need that nostalgia pandering I guess.

 

[Jango]

1 hour ago, Nina Cortex Jovahexeon said:

It's a problem with this entire sequel trilogy indeed.

TBH, I noticed it happened more often in this last one. One thing is Luke using a never seen before force power at the end of the movie in TLJ (which Rian Johnson later showed he took it from an official Star Wars guide book), another is expecting people to know there's a rule that says that could only be 2 Siths, ever... I mean, it was implied when Palp dropped the classic "-Do it" to Anakin slash Dokku's head in Episode III, but still. I understood it was simply because Anakin overpowered him and Palp no longer saw use for the old bastard.

Man, there's a lot of stuff in this movie that's way harder to swallow than in TLJ.

 

10 thousand ships, seriously? How did Palpatine hid 10 thousand Star Destroyers for over 30 years? How did he build it? It's too much, man. I can take Rey healing space worms with the Force because Star Wars always had these "Jesus moments", but there's some technical stuff that's just forced, no pun intended.

[DarkRula]

Y'all forgetting about Mace and Yoda's conversation at the end of Phantom Menace - there can only be two. Master and apprentice. But which did we kill?

I do admit that seeing Kylo being the irredeemable bad guy would have been a better plot for this film. It would have done so much for the whole bloodline doesn't matter theming that TLJ worked to set up.

[Jango]

Oh man, TLJ's final scene (with the boy) was perfect. That should've been the saga's last scene, the last lesson. Anyone can be strong and control the Force, you don't have to be a Skywalker, or Palpatine or whatever your bloodline. I swear to God when...

 

Rey answers the old lady with "Skywalker" at the end of the movie I wanted to die. I got the impression that the writers wanted to say that "Skywalker" is a title, not a family name. But it felt sooooooooo clichê, goddamn it. The 2 suns scene agaaaain! Sigh. I knew it was coming, but I still hated it.

[Patticus]

On 1/7/2020 at 1:55 PM, Supah Berry said:

You do know people were weirded out when they deepfaked Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher's likenesses into Rogue One, right?

I'm well aware, and Leia still doesn't sit quite right with me, but at the same time, this is technology with ample room to grow and improve, and these movies should by rights be periodically updated to reflect the improved visuals they should receive. The DerpFakes video proves you can get good results from a low budget.

[Tails spin]

So tomorrow will be a week  that I have seen this movie. I've had more time to think about this movie. While I generally liked it. I think back to memorable scenes and I find myself not have much. With Endgame I had tons that I would go back to. Same with Spiderman Far from Home.

Even with the Mandalorian I can recall memorable moments and definitely memorable episodes.

I'll mention my memorable moments from ROS below in spoilers

 

Basically any scenes with Emperor Palpatine. I keep going back to Kylo Ren at the beginning of the movie and seeing the emperor again for the first time in the movie and his dialogue. 

Then I liked the fight scenes between Rey and Kylo. Han Solo helping Ben return. Definitely the final battle with Ben defeating the Knights of Ren and Rey with Palpatine.

The scene when Leia dies you can see they built thoses scenes after Carrie's passing. I can respect that. Her other scenes was just her being there or the scene revolving on what we know are outtakes from the force awakens.

But other than that I  can't say anthing else was memorable

[Badnik Zero]

There is a rumored early script from Colin Trevorrow when he was still the Director and the movie was called Episode IX: Duel of the Fates. The summary is in this long ass YouTube video and it sounded awesome.

 

[DabigRG]

I finally went to see the Rise of Skywalker yesterday after several intentions of going with my brother as tradition fell through and I had nothing to do today aside from an errand or two; though truth be told, I was not very much interested in it and just wanted to finally get it over with. I suppose I can say it’s a decent to good-ish movie that fluctuates a bit in getting going and having effective things happen. What I mean by that is that the first five to ten minutes kinda breezes in a way to establish things and yet I felt somewhat bored/disengaged before slowly starting to be picked up with some admittedly kinda neat/funny if downplayed moment. These, combined with some things being kinda predictable/protracted and the movie shockingly being under 2 ½ hours long, made it slide from a little dull to kinda cool to actually sorta dramatic and slightly panning out again as the climax & ending play out.

As the Brainscratch impressions on the drive back consistently noted, though, there was general sense of the movie floundering a bit due to the combined impact of swiftly course-correcting The Last Jedi a fair bit, going through important developmental beats in a haste, a degree of back n’ forth with certain key scenes, having the burden of having to satisfactorily wrap up The Sequel Trilogy, and an amassed squandering of potential overall. To review each of my thoughts a little in perspective, I’m gonna have to go into some amount of spoilers.

Spoiler

 

Rey, Kylo, and the Nobodies

Was gonna break these up into two or so sections, but it’s easier to lump them all together since they are supposed to be the big stars of the Sequel Trilogy and I don’t have much to say on them personally.

Rey, after being dedicating most of her time training under Leia, rejoins her Trio to find a Sith Pathfinder so they can stop the incoming threat of The Final Order. With her powerset being less unfocused, she’s picked up a healing ability that draws from her own lifeforce, earns the right to wield the lightsabers of the Skywalkers before eventually crafting her own, and another ability in one scene that’s pretty whammy. She turned out to be the daughter of somebodies or rather the granddaughter of somebody very important indeed. Her parents, one of who is his son/daughter, sold her to Unkar Plutt on Jakku because they knew the Emperor wouldn’t find her there. Due to the implications of this reveals as well as her lingering bond with Kylo Ren, she spends much of the movie making increasingly reckless decisions in order to stop them both and avoid fulfilling a vision of herself falling to the Dark Side. As I’ll get into later, I feel like there should’ve been some further degree of pushback regarding her emotional mistakes and by extension, really emphasize her motivational fears of what is coming. Also why was the scene of Empress Palpatine so friggin short? She was actually friggin cool and such a cocktease!

Kylo Ren, now Supreme Leader, has decided to take/maintain a more personal methodology of leading the First Order. He begins the movie tracking down and slicing through Sith worships in order to obtain a Pathfinder necessary to reach the Sith World of Exegol, has his mask repaired by a monkey like mechanic to symbolize retaken authority, and spends the rest abusing the bond established by Snoke to subvert the Resistance while pushing Rey into taking his hand so they can rule the galaxy. After a serious close call that sees Rey heal the wound she inflicts on him after a critical moment in their fight, Ben gets his reformation by acknowledging he failed to rid himself of his guilt through somewhat confusing appearance of Han and spends his last moments by saving Rey before becoming one with the Force. Oh and The Knights of Ren show up in this movie and in the present too—and they don’t amount to much beyond accompanying Kylo and giving Ben a fight for the climax. Lewis’s reading of their bio in his supplement book even emphasizes how they are a myth that turned out to be real in the form of a mildly Force Sensitive reward for his personal training and it doesn’t matter who they were despite apparently having individual profiles. It’s weird too because they could’ve easily acted as silent antagonists for the rest of the group and/or an extension of Ren himself before that point and thus have a more dramatic confrontation with their former darkblade.

Finn and Jannah

Finn works alongside Poe as best bickering partners aboard the Millennium Falcon and is implied to indeed be Force-sensitive, which he attempts to tell Rey and uses to locate the paths towards the Resistance’s victory. He also surprisingly has his heritage as a brainwashed Stormtrooper come into play when the heroes met an entire group of them in the form of herding scavengers led by Jannah(fuck remembering her #). The two bond over their respective backstories involving a feeling that convinced them they were on the wrong side and even charge into battle on beast-back to directly take out the Final Order’s flagship. Despite this and having a fairly solid role in this finale, I can’t help but feel his arc was ultimately undercooked due to fairly scarce screentime. Not helping this in a way is how his affection from Rose is barely referenced(we’ll get to that) and the backstories of Janna & her group are rather vaguely discussed. I honestly couldn’t help but wonder more than once if she was some plant by the First Order. For a number of optional points, FN here was effectively contender for THE Guy of the Sequel Trilogy (if you just don’t wanna count Kylo Ren for whatever reason) and it’s a shame that his pretty unique story was not what it cracked up to be.

Poe, Zorri, Babu, and Pushback

Poe is promoted to General and uses his skipping skills to lead the Resistance to victory with Finn by his side. He is also revealed to be even more Solo-like in that he used to run Spice with his old friends Zorri and Babu, who help the heroes complete the message from Ochi’s Sith Dagger by wiping C-3P0’s memories on Kijimi. The never bareheaded Zorri notably has a bit of a slap-slap-kiss dynamic with him, initially being ready to blow his head off for abandoning them before gracefully getting bested by Rey, decides to give him an Imperial Officer badge to get access to any planet (which I don’t think ever comes up), and even shows up to help backup the Resistance ala Kat from Star Fox. These two were kinda nice side characters I guess, but sorta like Janna, they feel so underdeveloped and moreso feel kinda tacked in for Poe’s backstory. Which itself was kind of shoved in seemingly for the sake of making the Han parallel more obvious.

Following up on an issue I mentioned earlier, there were two or three times when I couldn’t help but think the movie could’ve benefitted from having someone call Rey on her thoughtless actions—somewhat with the meta in mind, but also primarily in terms of character development and story flow. The early parts of the movie, a somewhat unrelated observation from BSC, and especially thinking back made me convinced that this very much should have happened through Poe. The beginning of the movie actually does this by pointing out how Rey hasn’t been around to help them much at all and even questions why she dropped a tree on BB-8, while she takes issue with him setting the Millennium Falcon on fire and poor Finn slowly tries to break them up. Additionally, Rey, Finn, and Poe are the Main Trio of the Sequels like Luke, Leia, & Han were in the Original and Obi-Wan, Anakin, & maybe Padme were for the Prequels, but they kinda falter in the sense that while Finn has a clear bond with both, Rey and Poe barely interact to the point that they apparently first meet near the end of The Last Jedi. And finally, Poe’s character arc in the previous movie had him learn that defying direct orders and/or taking such heedless risks can lead to big problems that can get the people around him killed. Thus, he and his reigned in, hotshot demeanor would be perfect for arguing with her in a way Finn generally can’t.

Chewbacca, the Droids, and Lando

Everyone’s favorite Wookie and the Droid Duo play a bigger part in this final mission by accompanying the three heroes. BB-8 revives Ochi’s abused droid D-0, who’s pretty much a coach-mic on wheels and ends up providing the Resistance with the information necessary to reach Exegol; meanwhile, Chewbacca & C-3P0 of all characters provide assistance during the trips to gain the Pathfinder, offer some of the funny moments, and even get directly involved in the tension. Er, somewhat: Chewbacca is captured by the Stormtroopers under the Knights of Ren alongside the Sith Dagger when the transport is hit with Force Lightning from Rey’s attempt to pull them down against Kylo Ren and C-3P0 must translate an outlawed language through a process involving a total memory wipe. However, both of these things are mostly undone, with R2-D2 actually having a backup of his memories from a previous movie uploaded in a smashcut and Chewbecca being revealed as a live prisoner of Pryde to the audience **barely three minutes** after he seemingly blew up as a trick by Kylo Ren. I was honestly baffled why they even bothered with the latter because the heroes don’t learn that for quite a while and it was perfect opportunity to dwell on the ramifications of Rey losing control.

Lando also turns up to help provide the Resistance with some local help on where to find the Sith Dagger. He had actually avoided the civil war by hanging out on backwater planets, with the not Tatoine one they find him on actually having a sorta nice festival of only mildly terrifying tapir-squid people that involved Rey briefly befriending a little girl and the quicksandy pit of a fucking serpent she heals that is likely responsible for giving Ochi what was coming to him. Rey encourages him to return to Leia’s side and while he doesn’t for a good reason, he does lead an entire fleet of just people and Zorri to backup the Resistance in the final battle. Oh and Janna is implied to be his daughter near the end—guess that makes this The Story of Janna Freeman.

 

Leia, Maz, the Resistance, Snapp, and Rose

Whoo boy, here we go--you wanna talk about underutilized and fuckin course-[over]corrected, look no further than these old biddies and a funny fat guy.

The Resistance set up camp in some jungle planet where they stand by while Finn, Poe, BB-8, & Chewbacca run missions involving a spy within the First Order and General Leia trains Rey in the ways of the Force as Luke trained her. Specifically, this training involves opening up to hear from the Jedi of the Past(does this mean Ahsoka died?) and earning the right to wield Liea’s lightsaber, although that appears to be a self-imposed milestone. After assuring Rey not to doubt herself or BB-8, she sends the heroes off with C-3P0 in tow to find the Pathfinder and enable the Resistance to defeat The Final Order on Exegol. She ultimately uses the last of her physical life to reach Kylo Ren during his last fight with Rey and it is this act that allows Rey to snap out of her rage and causes Ben to finally admit he couldn’t make the full leap into the Dark Side.

The rest of the Resistance stands by in the jungle alongside Leia while waiting for the heroes to find the safe way to Exegol, discuss the plan once they return with most of the intelligence they need, and head into the final battle. Among their ranks are Maz Kanata, this slug repairman(who went on the mission to meet the spy), Poe’s friend Snapp(who got probably the first real laugh out of me, Nien Numb, what is probably Admiral Ackbar’s son, and a lesbian couple, the oldest of whom I believe personally informs Finn & Poe of Leia’s passing. Maz, who I just remembered lost her castle bar but apparently got contacts as compensation, is the one to pass on Leia’s General badge to Poe per her prior orders and witnesses her body become one with the Force.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot Rose Tico is still in this movie! The movie almost did too because she’s barely in this: I think she has one scene of dialogue on the jungle planet with Rey, shoots at something for a few seconds in the final battle, and her affection towards Finn isn’t referenced beyond *almost* trying to talk Finn out of risking his life to destroy the flagship with Janna—was she even on the poster, now that I think about it? And while we’re at it, wtf happened to those kids she indirectly inspired on Canto Blight? Now to be fair, Lewis mentioned that this is actually because she was supposed to be present in some of the Leia scenes that were cut because they were incredibly difficult to do using only unused footage from the previous movies. While this would’ve been a clever use for her character in the form of a bridge between the two groups as she sorta was regarding how corrupt the galaxy is in in the Last Jedi, it still really goes to show how much it was backtracked that that the one [surviving] major character introduced there seriously Demoted to Extra for the finale--talk about cynical.

Palpatine, Snoke, and the Final Order

Yep, Palpatine is back from the dead to Hijack this trilogy for the finale—sorta. From what I can tell, he is actually a decayed clone-zombie hanging like a coat from a life support crane on the storm covered Sith planet of Exegol and he’s established within the first five minutes offering Kylo Ren the right to rule as Emperor if he can kill Rey or better yet, make her fall to the dark. And get this—Snoke was apparently cloned by him to run the First Order while he gets the FINAL Order ready and also is Rey’s grandfather who dispatched Ochi(yes, I had to look up his name) to find her years ago, but only managed to kill her parents(ergo, his son/daughter) when they wouldn’t talk. Oh, also the reason he’s back with this plan is all thanks to this other Cult of the Sith within the planet(the chanting cloaks of whom randomly show up during Rey’s swear-in like it’s a football stadium) that await the moment he is either killed & replaced by Rey/Kylo or, in a third option, uses the unique bond he didn’t know about to completely stabilize his form so either way, an Emperor or Empress will rule the galaxy.

As you might have guess, his return and The Final Order itself is a mixed bag. On one hand, it’s a decent way to ramp up the stakes of finality by having him be Rey’s family aka the thing she wanted to define herself with and we get some really cool moments, with special note to him sitting on his throne under his open skylight and firing up what I can only refer to as a lightning tornado that scrambles the Resistance’s fighters as it slowly drags them together. On the other hand, though, there’s the undeniable fact that they were desperate to tie things up in a big way after the overall mixed reception of the Sequels that came before, his grandfather status here is a way to roping back in the big mystery box of Rey’s heritage after it was effectively written off to focus on who she believe she is(btw, Rey Skywalker er), and his being the Big Bad all along completely invalidates almost any impact Snoke had. Also, the Final Order is basically a bunch of Imperial Cruisers with Death Dicks and that’s just bizarre overkill—especially since one randomly makes Kimshi start collapsing in on itself with a quick Star Spritz when they are all supposed to have been hidden under the group of Exegol.

Hux, Pryde, and the First Order

Commander Hux was evidently demoted after The Last Jedi in favor a man called Pryde, who was actually an Imperial Officer that served the Emperor during his reign. This guy clearly had his head on straight while now being completely loyal to the First Order, whereas Hux was kind of an inefficiently angry fanatic even in his introduction. Which leads to a twist I sorta saw the opening for before it happened, but didn’t consider beforehand: Hux IS the spy who send the information on the Final Order through the goatguy at the beginning. This leads to Poe & Finn disbelievingly getting him to confess that he only wants Kylo to lose with a blast to the leg and his own immediate execution at the rifle of Pryde, who personally carries out the Emperor’s plan by improvising with the fleet’s signal until his end.

I noticed the First Order was going through a slight rebrand and/or expansion her. In addition to kicking in fucking doors to search families, they were sporting these red armored Stormtroopers, ones with jetpacks(which they apparently didn’t use before this), and Death Star-esque engineers with red capped helmets.  Plus, there was this black lady admiral commanding a ship in the final battle that may have also been a part of the Imperial Officer meeting—kinda wish there was a little more of her since she had a somewhat commanding voice and to fill in for the apparently Killed Off For Real Captain Phasma.  With all that said, how the heck did they get all to Exegol?

 

 

[Red Hot Jack]

On 1/9/2020 at 7:36 PM, Jango said:

Kylo should've been the ultimate villain of TROS, not Palp. It would've been better than giving everybody the mental image of Palpatine having sex halfway through the movie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also yeah, the movie expecting the public to piece together main story bits and lore from games, books and other spin-off media is bad. A lot of this movie makes no sense, stuff happens " just coz' ".

I'm so late on this, but here I am. I feel like the problem with the movie is that it tries to wrap so much, with such a short time, then of course you have comic books, games, etc. to fill in the blanks, I am so sad that they had to cut subplots, like Rose (I hate the character in TLJ, but love and respect the actress, they should have improved her instead of minimize her role), the plot between Jannah and Lando, Finn's words to Rey, and all of that, it just feels rushed and left up in the air, why? Just make a longer movie then.

Duel of the Fates (Trevorrow's cut): Don't like it, in fact I kinda hate it honestly, it's not better at all, Kylo killing Rey's parents? I guess it's for the sake of the conflict, but of course it adds nothing for Rey and her journey, her parentage still means nothing in this case, as it was in TLJ.

I kinda hate how Kylo Ren was handled in the actual movie too though, he definitely wasn't a main villain material IMO, no actually… he objectively isn't, Abrams created him, and of course, as we can see in TFA, he was Always meant to be redeemed, even though he killed his own father, he was Always conflicted, insecure, lost, he wasn't downright crazy or a monster, he was just a lost soul with darkness in his heart. This is why he's my favorite character in the ST, he's so complex IMO. I hate how he was given such a short time in this final movie, he doesn't talk for the last hour… ok, he actually does actions, but everything he does seems like it's in service of Rey's arc, her parentage, her emotions, etc. there is very little arc for Ben here, I'm really disappointed! They fight ok… I enjoyed both fights and their shared fight at the end, but still, where is the conflict? It seems like most of the time, they don't know why they are fighting, just because they are confused, in fact I have no idea why Kylo fights at the beginning of the movie, it's like he is an anti-hero or something, then later a hero. Still he remains my favorite in the new trilogy.

Rey's journey I admit was freaking Amazing, really well written, in fact Rey in TROS is my favorite version of her, I could have immediately told she was born from the dark side because of what she did in TLJ, that dark side mirror scene with all the reflections of Rey, really good, and foreshadowed Palpatine's twist. Everything in general was great about her, I really enjoyed it, although it was at the expense of every other character, she kinda sucked all the screentime of the other characters… another time limit issue.

Leia: This is why I hate Trevorrow's cut, she is literally M.I.A., I didn't see a mention of her in the post I read, don't know her fate, but it's obviously done off-screen, which I despise, I despise the idea of her written out with a mention. JJ Abrams did the best work, I know they cut a lot of her scenes because the footage between Carrie Fisher and the other Actors wasn't convincing. In the end she appeared not much in the final movie, but at least SHE WAS THERE, I really appreciate that, and I love the relationship with Rey, the importance of Leia in the movie and her here and there appearances, so… I'm content about it, one thing I would have fixed: make the flashback with Young Luke and Leia longer, I needed more of that!

So I talked about my favorite characters… now my hope is that, since I enjoyed the ST characters, and this only wraps the Skywalker saga cast, the original cast, that Disney makes a new series or a follow up movie, I'd rather have a tv show though, about the Resistance and its members, Finn, Poe, Rose, Jannah, Zorri, Chewie, BB-8, Dominic Monaghan's character maybe. With a guest visit from Lando, 3PO and at the end… Rey, because honestly her arc is done and she steals screentime from other characters, I'd keep her as a special guest. New villains of course… different villains. So these are my picks.

[Shadow Chaos Control]

On 7/10/2020 at 8:47 PM, lulzers said:

So what do you guys think of the idea of Palpatine returning from the dead for this movie?

Continuity issues. 

[Nathan]

In my opinion I hated this movie Disney ruined Star Wars but rouge one was good and the last jedia was to. There is no way that ray is a palpatine it makes no sense I wanted ray to die at the end and killing of them best character Han Solo. 

[Shadow Chaos Control]

On 8/31/2020 at 5:16 PM, Nathan said:

In my opinion I hated this movie Disney ruined Star Wars but rouge one was good and the last jedia was to. There is no way that ray is a palpatine it makes no sense I wanted ray to die at the end and killing of them best character Han Solo. 

The Last Jedi was one of my favorites, the most philosphical since Empire Strikes Back. They shouldn’t have tried to course correct with The Rise of Skywalker, it made the film feel disjointed and like a first draft by committee. 

Rey being s Palpatine was a terrible idea. She was more interesting as a nobody, just as Anakin had been. 

I hate they killed Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. Adam Driver drove the series emotionally, he was the best part of The Sequel Trilogy.  

[Nathan]

And the big deal that lando was back he was shown once or twice in the film 

[Shadow Chaos Control]

19 hours ago, Nathan said:

And the big deal that lando was back he was shown once or twice in the film 

And was it just me or did he seem drugged? Especially in the scene when they first meet him at the Festival. 

[Nathan]

Yes indeed