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Sonic the Hedgehog 4

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Why episode 1 though? Why not release it in one game, the way all the others were?

I can't say I'm in a position to be skeptical at this point, on the contrary if they can pull this off it will be great.

But it does seem foolish to assume that people will go for multiple purchases in order to play this game, taking the current level of bias against the hedgehog into account.

I think that it doesn't necessarily mean that we'll only be getting fragments of the game. Think about it like this.

If they just called it Sonic 4, and it was a big success, and they wanted to make another, what would they do? Call it Sonic 5? And then Sonic 6? Not only would you be entering Megaman Syndrome, but you'd also be making sequels, and with sequels, people (rightfully) expect a lot of new content, and not just more of the same. However, if you deliver full games in "episode" format, then no one expects any more from the next episode than what was in the previous—They just expect new stages, and maybe new characters, if that.

This is of course being optimistic. We have nothing to indicate that this won't be another partial game, ala Sonic 3. Here's hoping, though.

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Better yet, the rings are WAY to big asdfsadfhgdag!!11!1!

Yeah, I know, WTF is up with that? I'm boycotting.

Alright, I know I am flip-flopping here more than John Kerry, but I hereby rescind my erstwhile bitchiness and hold my reservations for this game. For one, I hate first levels in Sonic games anyway, for two, well, green eyes ain't worth a damn if what matters is what sucks (gameplay/level design/mechanic - all of which you cannot fully assimilate through three seconds of beta footage).

Edited by nUcLeArEnVoY

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Hey, nothing wrong with holding out reservations. With all the crap the Sonic series has had lately, that's mighty wise in fact. :)

People arguing with "NO U!" over a three second clip is what I can't abide.

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I thought that much would be obvious, but apparently not. Honestly, I'm slightly insulted you picked such a pretentious point simply to argue with me.

Well obviously I'm just white knighting for Phos.

"O boy, I sho' hope he's sekretly a gurl."

ONWARDS:

I feel compelled to repeat this from Retro, where I expressed fears about the level's apparent LINEARITY, noting that (yes, I know it was only 3 seconds) there were no hints of alternate routes or platforms.

slope.png

However, some eagle-eyed fellow noted that in the dim murk at the very start, there ARE actually two paths visible, so this whole Mobius srtip section actually comes off a path divergance.

Level design's looking up. :)

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You know, the homing attack has its uses beyond simply getting up to speed first blast. It has its platforming uses, and implemented in a classic style game can be used to control one's aerial direction and potentially control movement onto certain platforms or to avoid stage hazards like spikes or bottomless pits. But at the same time there's a danger; you have to master it and use it appropriately to avoid things like overshooting.

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I don't mind the use of the homing attack, I really don't see the problem with it as long as I can hit enemies with the spindash and jump attack and don't need to home in on them to destroy 'em. Also, I'd just like to mention that the logo looks exactly like I hoped/expected it to look, with the added bonus of them actually calling the game Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

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Also, a note on the rings: play yourself some Sonic Heroes.

The rings are EASILY as big in relation to Sonic in Heroes as they are in the Noodlemouse trailer. Don't know if it's likewise for other early 3D games, but it's certainly the case in Heroes-land.

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Referring to this image....

444bw.jpg

Also, is it me, or does this Sonic look worse than the Unleashed one, even though the look pretty much identical? It must be the angle.

Hedgehog Engine. Unleashed had very impressive lighting effects which made the models look really good. The lighting in that Sonic 4 pic isn't so impressive.

As for the model arguments....

same.jpg

Does it really matter? The only GLARING difference is the Sonic on the right has his spikes in a mohawk. But both Sonics have spikes that are essentially the same length.

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See? This is the exact shit I was talking about! You 're not actually arguing, you're just trying to make it sound like anyone who doesn't share your view on the subject is retarded for not doing so. I'm sick and tired of this shit.

This game is presumably directed by Iizuka, meaning we'll be using it to cross gaps by attack strings of enemies. But thanks for calling me dense, that was really tactful.

Honestly, I didn't want to argue. I just wanted to post my opinion on the game and the reaction. Nothing really worth a rebuttal. But you want me to argue? Fine!

No matter how you slice it... That was one of the worst reasons I have ever heard to complain about a Sonic game. Worst than the grin or the shade of blue. What does is eyes have to do with gameplay in any way, shape or form? Are you going to play the game or stare into Sonic's face and frown at him? You wonder why people think it's a joke? It's because it's completely irrelevant!

And recently, you posted about this game being for 'Classic' Sonic fans. News flash! Many of us areclassic fans and mixed! (I've been playing Sonic games since 1991, mac!) I don't see anyone else being that critical about it, classic fan or not. They just want a fun game to play, with some of the classic artstyle, optional, and formula in tact. And that's all that's needed, really. Hell, if they just have fun then they would probably be able to passed everything else.

Also, the Rush comment. No matter what strip you post of the footage, what does it matter? It's only around five seconds long anyway. Like I said, it's seems like it's an piece from one of the earlier levels. I don't remember Sonic having to platform consecutively in the earlier levels of the Classic titles, especially the 1st levels. In fact, given the path, the player could run through a good chunk of them.

So they show Sonic running? So what? He's SONIC. He's going to run eventually. I don't see how the game can be classified as under the Rush name of "playing itself" when all we saw was five seconds, possibly shorter.

*Sigh.* Next time I'll know to just post my opinion on the game and move on. I'm not the biggest fan of arguing. So take this how ever you want.

Edited by U ♥ YoshiUnity

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Sounds like the same thing to me. The eye colour is enough to put you off the game, therefore you are saying the eyes is enough to ruin the game on its own. You do know what you're saying, right?

Why do people keep reading this into my posts? Even when I specifically say that isn't what I think!!

You are the ones who are putting words into my mouth, accusing me of saying that that's enough to ruin the game on it's own. It isn't.

It's a mystery.

Excuse me. I'm an old Sonic fan, and I am verging on the positive on this game, thank you very much. I'm sure there are many people who don't take issue with the colour of Sonic's arse that are in the same position as me, who aren't 14 year old Shadow fanboys. It would do you no favours to broadly paint people who aren't going "OMG LAAAAAAMEZOOOOOR" as immature retards yourself.

I said old fans, and by that I meant that the people who are not liking this game so far are old fans. I did not mean to imply that all old fans aren't liking it. I also made no mention of newer fans' views on the game, so it's rather bothersome that you imply that I did, and I also didn't make any derogatory comments towards anyone, simply request that they stop acting like my position is obviously indefensible, as I would prefer a reasonable rebuttal rather than what I've gotten so far, much of which amounts to textbook flaming.

I'll tell you what I see. I see a small segment of a tiny part of one Act of one Zone, selected purely for the purposes of providing 'something' action-based to fill a teaser trailer. I do not see a complete level map. I do not see anything beyond that tiny segment of level design. And I don't see a compelling argument for auto-pessimists that are looking to slit their wrists because something in a three second clip doesn't do the five million things they request it does.

A little tidbit I forgot to mention before: The first speed gimmick is a rising speed gimmick. The classics had sequential speed gimmicks and they had rising speed gimmicks, but seeing the two together was as rare as hen's teeth. I should have brought this up before, because you see it all the time. Why does this imply that this game's levels will be like Sonic Rush/Rivals? Simply because I find it unlikely that a level designer would use this very Rush-esque thought process here and not do it everywhere else, not to mention how rare convex quarter pipes were in the classics. To my knowledge, they appear in two levels: Stardust Speedway and Hidden Palace Zone (S2 beta version).

Wrong. You use it because Sonic Rivals 2 is a racing game, and the key element of a racing game is speed. What applies in one genre does not necessarily apply to another. Sonic Rush Adventure featured a homing attack. How many times did you use it?

I do it in free play mode as well, it beats holding right for that long. That, and Sonic could barely get enough speed to make it up a concave quarter pipe otherwise.

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Well obviously I'm just white knighting for Phos.

"O boy, I sho' hope he's sekretly a gurl."

Ha, sorry about my snap there, I'm getting a bit annoyed at all the pointless bickering in the thread. No harm done I hope. :3

slope.png

However, some eagle-eyed fellow noted that in the dim murk at the very start, there ARE actually two paths visible, so this whole Mobius srtip section actually comes off a path divergance.

Level design's looking up. :)

Wow, those crazy kids at Retro find some pretty sweet stuff don't they? Hopefully we'll see more of this level soon.

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Well obviously I'm just white knighting for Phos.

"O boy, I sho' hope he's sekretly a gurl."

ONWARDS:

I feel compelled to repeat this from Retro, where I expressed fears about the level's apparent LINEARITY, noting that (yes, I know it was only 3 seconds) there were no hints of alternate routes or platforms.

slope.png

However, some eagle-eyed fellow noted that in the dim murk at the very start, there ARE actually two paths visible, so this whole Mobius srtip section actually comes off a path divergance.

Level design's looking up. :)

And the whole chequered thing on the left, can it be a platform for a higher path I suppose? If that slope at the beginning didn't curve into the corkscrew, a good ammount of speed could have launched Sonic to the top of the loop to continue forwards, missed opportunity :\. The path through the loop goes down, yes? Corkscrew probably leads down to somewhere. If not, I will be very disappointed.

A little tidbit I forgot to mention before: The first speed gimmick is a rising speed gimmick. The classics had sequential speed gimmicks and they had rising speed gimmicks, but seeing the two together was as rare as hen's teeth. I should have brought this up before, because you see it all the time. Why does this imply that this game's levels will be like Sonic Rush/Rivals? Simply because I find it unlikely that a level designer would use this very Rush-esque thought process here and not do it everywhere else, not to mention how rare convex quarter pipes were in the classics. To my knowledge, they appear in two levels: Stardust Speedway and Hidden Palace Zone (S2 beta version).

Fair enough. I understand your point now. There is no consistent slope progression there (for a lack of a better expression). It wouldn't be bad if it had an objective (for example Mushroom Hill has some downards, upwards and vice-versa (but mostly the former) sections, but the objective with those was different level heights.

Edited by redmenace

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Referring to this image....

444bw.jpg

Hedgehog Engine. Unleashed had very impressive lighting effects which made the models look really good. The lighting in that Sonic 4 pic isn't so impressive.

As for the model arguments....

same.jpg

Does it really matter? The only GLARING difference is the Sonic on the right has his spikes in a mohawk. But both Sonics have spikes that are essentially the same length.

Well, then the question is, exactly why don't they use the Hedgehog Engine?

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Why do people keep reading this into my posts? Even when I specifically say that isn't what I think!!

It's a mystery.

I said old fans, and by that I meant that the people who are not liking this game so far are old fans. I did not mean to imply that all old fans aren't liking it. I also made no mention of newer fans' views on the game, so it's rather bothersome that you imply that I did, and I also didn't make any derogatory comments towards anyone, simply request that they stop acting like my position is obviously indefensible, as I would prefer a reasonable rebuttal rather than what I've gotten so far, much of which amounts to textbook flaming.

Look, I'm not going to beat this thing over the head any more than I have to. You know I have your back most days Phos, but I just can't see your reasoning here. You can be disappointed about the eyes thing but I don't see how that makes a blind bit of difference to the enjoyment of the game. Regardless of whether I misinterpreted your posts or not, the very idea of being turned off by something that you won't even see 99% of your play time is in itself slightly weird. But you know, opinions - all shapes and sizes.

I do it in free play mode as well, it beats holding right for that long. That, and Sonic could barely get enough speed to make it up a concave quarter pipe otherwise.

Well yeah, it stands to reason that Sonic Rivals 2's level design amounts to nothing more than a straight line anyway. :P

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Well, then the question is, exactly why don't they use the Hedgehog Engine?

I think they wanted to focus on making one version of this game that's playable on every system, instead of a different version for every system ala Unleashed. Remember, this is going on the iPhone and WiiWare as well, which are quite limited in resources, so to optimise profits they're probably just making one version of Sonic 4, with possibly some minor alterations for the iPhone, that looks more or less exactly the same on each console.

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I can’t remember, has the homing attack been used in any of the 2D games like Rush up to press? I’ve got zero problem with it… the homing attack just doesn’t work in 3D as it’s way too easy to miss your target and fall into a pit of doom. Unleashed had the right idea by slowing it down but it still felt like you were taking your life in your hands using it. In 2D it should work fine but when you’ve got Sonic under better control in 2D why would you need to use it?

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I think they wanted to focus on making one version of this game that's playable on every system, instead of a different version for every system ala Unleashed. Remember, this is going on the iPhone and WiiWare as well, which are quite limited in resources, so to optimise profits they're probably just making one version of Sonic 4, with possibly some minor alterations for the iPhone, that looks more or less exactly the same on each console.

Oh, true that. Completely forgot about the Wii and the Iphone.

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I'd say the Sonic 4 character model reminds me of the Smash Bros. Brawl model more than anything.

I agree, it does remind me of brawl too, as Sonic was a bit shorter in it than usual, just like in Sonic 4.

-Iceman

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I like how they're bringing it to the iPhone but if you have any of the three home consoles why the hell would you want to buy it on the iPhone? Sonic is basically unplayable on it.

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I like how they're bringing it to the iPhone but if you have any of the three home consoles why the hell would you want to buy it on the iPhone? Sonic is basically unplayable on it.

This is true too. What are we gonna do, drag and drop sonic to the loop de loop? Tilt the screen to make him walk? Rub a boss to fight?

-Iceman

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I like how they're bringing it to the iPhone but if you have any of the three home consoles why the hell would you want to buy it on the iPhone? Sonic is basically unplayable on it.

This is probably me just talking, but I have a feeling that they're going to advertise this much more than other recent Sonic games and try to gear it more towards EVERYBODY instead of just gamers, as a way to make Sonic much more mainstream than he is currently, and one way to appeal to more people to to release the game on a multimedia device the common everyman has that isn't a game console.

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I agree, it does remind me of brawl too, as Sonic was a bit shorter in it than usual, just like in Sonic 4.

-Iceman

Brawl model = Secret Rings/Black Knight model. Seriously, I've seen both models ripped and they're identical (almost- Brawl is lower-poly).

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I wonder if we can expect a TV ad or something? Sonic running on a 2D plane is enough to get lots of 20-something year olds very excited about the game even if they haven’t played a Sonic game since the Mega Drive.

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